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	<title>Comments on: 8.9 Feedback &#8211; Pz.Sfl.IVc</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/</link>
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	<item>
		<title>By: TK3600</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-82884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TK3600]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Nov 2013 08:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-82884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I call it flak box.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I call it flak box.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-82629</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2013 23:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-82629</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Maybe you need to be introduced to the T49?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe you need to be introduced to the T49?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gappa</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-82462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gappa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-82462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bought it today, here is my experience so far with every module but the top gun (using the short 88):

Pros:
- fast
- gun traverse really rocks
- gun elevation combined with no armor makes using the &quot;inverted depression&quot; approach really viable :)
- good view range

Cons:
- short 88 shells fly quite slow for the distance you need to be at
- penetration on these distances is not sufficient for T6/T7 battles (I even bounced several times on DW2 :D, forget about KV3s)
- big box (noting strange for germans) with no armor (yikes!)

I rate it 6/10. Bath tub S35 CA with the 17pdr or 105 mm is far better at being a TD of this type.

However...I would rather take this TD into any battle in favor of ARL V39...that is a real torture! :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bought it today, here is my experience so far with every module but the top gun (using the short 88):</p>
<p>Pros:<br />
- fast<br />
- gun traverse really rocks<br />
- gun elevation combined with no armor makes using the &#8220;inverted depression&#8221; approach really viable :)<br />
- good view range</p>
<p>Cons:<br />
- short 88 shells fly quite slow for the distance you need to be at<br />
- penetration on these distances is not sufficient for T6/T7 battles (I even bounced several times on DW2 :D, forget about KV3s)<br />
- big box (noting strange for germans) with no armor (yikes!)</p>
<p>I rate it 6/10. Bath tub S35 CA with the 17pdr or 105 mm is far better at being a TD of this type.</p>
<p>However&#8230;I would rather take this TD into any battle in favor of ARL V39&#8230;that is a real torture! :)</p>
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		<title>By: NastyToaster</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-81430</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NastyToaster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2013 20:23:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-81430</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[According to WOTINFO 

http://www.wotinfo.net/en;jsessionid=B32029BB0055BE8596B52238E9CBA0AC

both the Nashorn and the Sturer Emil have even LESS camovalue. Only with the Rheinmetal WT there is a TD in the new german line with good camo rating. 

As for the guns: 

Stock gun: Being comparable to the StuGs topgun, it is a rather easy stock grind. Highest DPM of all guns, however you need to every shot to penetrate for it to work and the difference is only marginal. 

Short 8.8cm Flak: 

The much higher alphadamage of 220 is a significant improvement as you  now can hit the enemy harder even if he drives into cover. The traverse is still the generous 24 degree from the 7.5cm. You loose penetration compared to the 7.5 cm.... but it is not much. Still.... against farther away targets, especially Tier 6 and 7 you are getting quite some bounces. 

Long 8,8 cm Flak: You should only consider this weapon if you intend to keep the tank, as it is quite expensive. It is however well worth the XP.... not only does it have 240 alphadamage but its tremendous penetration power will make sure NOTHING can stand before you. Tier 7 Heavy only showing frontal armor? 440m distance? Bad angle? It doesnt matter.... Every shot penetrates and deals significant damage with only marginally lower ROF than the short 8.8. Sure.. the limited traverse arc sucks, but you should never forget that this tank is meant to be a extreme range sniper. And at this distance your 5 degrees in either direction are quite enough to hit anything you want without having to turn the hull - which doesnt matter that much... because if you are as far away as you should be, nobody will detect you because of hull movement alone. 

The true purpose of the hefty penetration value is to make extreme range sniping viable. 132mm Pen of the short 8.8 may be sufficient against Tier 7 being less than 100m away, however against heavily armored Tier 7 being several hundred meters away, you will face significant penetration issues. As such the short 8.8 forces you to get closer to the enemy.... which brings up the issues of paper armor and less than stellar camo value. 

You got 380m basic viewrange... use them. 
You got a gun that makes some Tier 7 pale in envy. 
You have up to 90 degree gun ELEVATION. Find a downhill and stay there... you can still fire up, unlike any other tank in this game. This allows for the use of some special sniping spots nobody else can use, due to lack of gun elevation. 

Most Tier 7 tanks consider Tier 5s pesky flies... correct their attitude with a juicy 240 shell right trough their frontal armor. 


Last but not least be warned. The Nashorn is far less agile and its top gun is rather a downgrade compared to the long 8.8cm Flak. It has less camo value, too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>According to WOTINFO </p>
<p><a href="http://www.wotinfo.net/en;jsessionid=B32029BB0055BE8596B52238E9CBA0AC" rel="nofollow">http://www.wotinfo.net/en;jsessionid=B32029BB0055BE8596B52238E9CBA0AC</a></p>
<p>both the Nashorn and the Sturer Emil have even LESS camovalue. Only with the Rheinmetal WT there is a TD in the new german line with good camo rating. </p>
<p>As for the guns: </p>
<p>Stock gun: Being comparable to the StuGs topgun, it is a rather easy stock grind. Highest DPM of all guns, however you need to every shot to penetrate for it to work and the difference is only marginal. </p>
<p>Short 8.8cm Flak: </p>
<p>The much higher alphadamage of 220 is a significant improvement as you  now can hit the enemy harder even if he drives into cover. The traverse is still the generous 24 degree from the 7.5cm. You loose penetration compared to the 7.5 cm&#8230;. but it is not much. Still&#8230;. against farther away targets, especially Tier 6 and 7 you are getting quite some bounces. </p>
<p>Long 8,8 cm Flak: You should only consider this weapon if you intend to keep the tank, as it is quite expensive. It is however well worth the XP&#8230;. not only does it have 240 alphadamage but its tremendous penetration power will make sure NOTHING can stand before you. Tier 7 Heavy only showing frontal armor? 440m distance? Bad angle? It doesnt matter&#8230;. Every shot penetrates and deals significant damage with only marginally lower ROF than the short 8.8. Sure.. the limited traverse arc sucks, but you should never forget that this tank is meant to be a extreme range sniper. And at this distance your 5 degrees in either direction are quite enough to hit anything you want without having to turn the hull &#8211; which doesnt matter that much&#8230; because if you are as far away as you should be, nobody will detect you because of hull movement alone. </p>
<p>The true purpose of the hefty penetration value is to make extreme range sniping viable. 132mm Pen of the short 8.8 may be sufficient against Tier 7 being less than 100m away, however against heavily armored Tier 7 being several hundred meters away, you will face significant penetration issues. As such the short 8.8 forces you to get closer to the enemy&#8230;. which brings up the issues of paper armor and less than stellar camo value. </p>
<p>You got 380m basic viewrange&#8230; use them.<br />
You got a gun that makes some Tier 7 pale in envy.<br />
You have up to 90 degree gun ELEVATION. Find a downhill and stay there&#8230; you can still fire up, unlike any other tank in this game. This allows for the use of some special sniping spots nobody else can use, due to lack of gun elevation. </p>
<p>Most Tier 7 tanks consider Tier 5s pesky flies&#8230; correct their attitude with a juicy 240 shell right trough their frontal armor. </p>
<p>Last but not least be warned. The Nashorn is far less agile and its top gun is rather a downgrade compared to the long 8.8cm Flak. It has less camo value, too.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tomego</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-81139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[tomego]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2013 17:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-81139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I enjoy the toaster. One thing you forgot to mention is the weight of the guns. The top 88 weighs almost 4 kilos more than the stock gun. On a vehicle that only weighs in the low 20s, that is an increase of weight to the vehicle of 16%. Maybe it was just the slower gun traverse but I felt like it slowed the entire vehicle down and for a vehicle that relies on its ability to reposition for firing positions, that can be a significant disadvantage. I personally find the 75 to have sufficient pen, especially with a few gold rounds for harder targets.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoy the toaster. One thing you forgot to mention is the weight of the guns. The top 88 weighs almost 4 kilos more than the stock gun. On a vehicle that only weighs in the low 20s, that is an increase of weight to the vehicle of 16%. Maybe it was just the slower gun traverse but I felt like it slowed the entire vehicle down and for a vehicle that relies on its ability to reposition for firing positions, that can be a significant disadvantage. I personally find the 75 to have sufficient pen, especially with a few gold rounds for harder targets.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mikhail800</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-80774</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mikhail800]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2013 11:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-80774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My opinion is, that Pz.Sfl.IVc is very very GOOD TD on Tier V!

I played it with second gun. This gun penetrates all Tier V and VI vehicles and golds to penetrate higher tiers are pretty cheap (thanks to actual weekend action).

Even I done Master Tanker with basic gun!

Its really amazing TD, really better TD than Nashorn for me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My opinion is, that Pz.Sfl.IVc is very very GOOD TD on Tier V!</p>
<p>I played it with second gun. This gun penetrates all Tier V and VI vehicles and golds to penetrate higher tiers are pretty cheap (thanks to actual weekend action).</p>
<p>Even I done Master Tanker with basic gun!</p>
<p>Its really amazing TD, really better TD than Nashorn for me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Missingturret</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-80540</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missingturret]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2013 02:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-80540</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will add one more point tho - y the hate for the Jagdpanzer? Whilst it needed a bigger gun I smote many a tank and turned a ton of wins on that lil bastard...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will add one more point tho &#8211; y the hate for the Jagdpanzer? Whilst it needed a bigger gun I smote many a tank and turned a ton of wins on that lil bastard&#8230;</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Missingturret</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-80538</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Missingturret]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Nov 2013 02:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-80538</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hated the L56. Did more damage with the 75L70, and got more kills. Course, I never had the chance to use the L56 on tier 3s either... Maybe this flak bus concept ain&#039;t so bad...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hated the L56. Did more damage with the 75L70, and got more kills. Course, I never had the chance to use the L56 on tier 3s either&#8230; Maybe this flak bus concept ain&#8217;t so bad&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lucifer_BL</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-80354</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lucifer_BL]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Nov 2013 21:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-80354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess this is one of those &quot;hate it&quot; or &quot;love it&quot; tanks... and I&#039;m in this first group.
Even though I managed to get ace tanker in maybe first 3-4 battles, and some medals, I still think it is a shitty tank. Yes, ROF is good, pen also, mobility great, but dude... that non existing armor, that non existing camo.  I really love my StugIII and I still keep it in garage, and the only problem with it is that pesky KV1S or KV2 oneshoting me, everything else is not a prob. However in Toaster, even tIV tanks load HE shells and oneshot me easily... All is good up until point you get spoted, and when you do, you can simply hit escape button---&gt; back to garage. Off course this wouldnt be such a problem if I had organized team so I could position myself carefuly and use somebody as a scout, but in random battles you simply cannot count on that and my teammates rush forward and spot enemy tanks that are behind one hill, two houses and car, and in that case all my super pen and damage cant do nothing. Repositioning is out of question because to do that I need to move over line of sight of enemy tanks which means I get instanly spotted and killed.
In the end i spent about 20k of freeXP to move to Nashorn, and that... omfg... 2nd game top gun. Games against tVIII tanks, no prob: kill KTiger and IS3 and end game with ~3k dmg. Will definitely check review on this one...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess this is one of those &#8220;hate it&#8221; or &#8220;love it&#8221; tanks&#8230; and I&#8217;m in this first group.<br />
Even though I managed to get ace tanker in maybe first 3-4 battles, and some medals, I still think it is a shitty tank. Yes, ROF is good, pen also, mobility great, but dude&#8230; that non existing armor, that non existing camo.  I really love my StugIII and I still keep it in garage, and the only problem with it is that pesky KV1S or KV2 oneshoting me, everything else is not a prob. However in Toaster, even tIV tanks load HE shells and oneshot me easily&#8230; All is good up until point you get spoted, and when you do, you can simply hit escape button&#8212;&gt; back to garage. Off course this wouldnt be such a problem if I had organized team so I could position myself carefuly and use somebody as a scout, but in random battles you simply cannot count on that and my teammates rush forward and spot enemy tanks that are behind one hill, two houses and car, and in that case all my super pen and damage cant do nothing. Repositioning is out of question because to do that I need to move over line of sight of enemy tanks which means I get instanly spotted and killed.<br />
In the end i spent about 20k of freeXP to move to Nashorn, and that&#8230; omfg&#8230; 2nd game top gun. Games against tVIII tanks, no prob: kill KTiger and IS3 and end game with ~3k dmg. Will definitely check review on this one&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: T3azz(EXNOM) :P</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/09/8-9-feedback-pz-sfl-ivc/#comment-80199</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[T3azz(EXNOM) :P]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=5124#comment-80199</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, what I wrote isnt really wrong is it? Compared to the stug III this tank has everything more superior. In deed such a gun is retarded at tier 5 anyways, combined with all other stats.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, what I wrote isnt really wrong is it? Compared to the stug III this tank has everything more superior. In deed such a gun is retarded at tier 5 anyways, combined with all other stats.</p>
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