Comments on: Tank turrets as Bunkers – Wargaming fantasy?

By: vzumm

vzumm — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:01:12 +0000

Among turrets used for fortifications was at last one of PzKpfw V “Panther”. It was discovered in 2001 in Szczecin, Poland (till 1945 – Stettin, Germany). It was mounted as a part of the wooden and ground bunker at a railway bridge over Oder river, and was blown up by retreating German troops.
Now it is exposed in Świnoujście, Poland.
Some pictures and text (in Polish):
http://odkrywca.pl/galerie.php?nazwa=lufa
http://www.mmszczecin.pl/361001/2011/2/27/szczecin-bedzie-mial-forteczna-wersje-wiezy-czolgowej-ze-slynnej-pantery?category=news
https://www.google.pl/images?client=opera&q=wie%C5%BCa+pantery+szczecin&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=ssl&gbv=1&sei=CxmXU9jWOerB7AaLpIHADQ&hl=pl&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=DBmXU-jCKMWp7Aag1ICQCg&ved=0CCsQsAQ

By: Ukmj

Ukmj — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:34:30 +0000

Enplaced Panther Turrets were used in large numbers by the Germans in Italy in WWII.

In the Book The Churchill by Bryan Perrett there’s an account of a number of Churchills being lost to Emplaced Panther Turrets whilst assaulting the Hilter Line in May 1944.

There is even a photo of one of the emplaced Panther Turrets with it’s well-cleared killing ground.

By: armatage

armatage — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:34:33 +0000

Oh, dont be so syriaus

By: FUNDAMENTALISTA

FUNDAMENTALISTA — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:33:41 +0000

The true is German made huge turrets bunkers

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?87940-German-WWII-coastal-battery-Austr%E5tt-fort-Norway

By: Kellomies

Kellomies — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:17:49 +0000

If the target is but half a kilometer away something is horribly wrong already. Anyways, the last I read about it warship turrets had internal fire-control solely as backup – normally the data came from dedicated direction stations kitted out with much larger rangefinders and junk, via the fire direction center in the bowels of the ship where all those fancy mechanical and electromechanical ballistic computers and suchlike were.

Counterpoint: try taking out *that* artillery position with counterbattery fire…

By: RedShocktrooper

RedShocktrooper — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:05:11 +0000

You try hitting a tank-sized target at 500m with a gun and optics system meant to engage something 10km away.

The traverse rate could be outpaced by everything except the Maus and T-95.

By: Jiri_Starrider

Jiri_Starrider — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:04:35 +0000

Years ago, 80′s? I think, a friend of mine was visiting relatives in Israel, they knew he liked tanks and asked if he wanted to see a Panzer IV that was being used as a bunker. He obviously agreed. They let him crawl around in it, sat in the gunners seat, etc. Said, would you like to shoot it? He obviously agreed even faster. After shooting it he had a thought and asked where the round went. Response? – “Oh, that’s just Syria”.

By: Kellomies

Kellomies — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:10:35 +0000

On a curio note, the FDF used to have a bunch of heavily modified T-55 turrets as static coastal defense pieces – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_56_TK. My brother briefly served in one about a decade back, but they’ve now been decommissioned.

By: Kellomies

Kellomies — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:00:03 +0000

TBH for such a position a dug-in tank (quite possibly a damaged one no good for mobile duty) converted into an expedient bunker seems a *lot* more likely than a purpose-built Turmstellung – if nothing else the last I read about the latter they had fairly substantial associated underground structures, and spending that much effort on such a fairly quick-and-dirty local defense would seem a mite strange. AFAIK the “Turms” tended to be more a feature of true well-prepared fortification works.

On a little different note, I understand a lot of trophy French tanks (R-35s in particular) ended up ‘donating’ their turrets for the Atlantic Wall. The Shermans and whatnots presumably weren’t too intimidated by the short 37mm’s but it’s probably safe to assume the disembarking infantry did not appreciate the blighters.

By: Kellomies

Kellomies — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 16:47:47 +0000

I’ll raise you the Sevastopol coastal batteries:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Sevastopol#mediaviewer/File:Bundesarchiv_N_1603_Bild-117,_Russland,_Sewastopol,_zerst%C3%B6rte_Festung_Maxim_Gorki.jpg
Those were a lot of fun in Men of War.