Comments on: Shots that Changed the World…

By: K0MMAND0

K0MMAND0 — Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:53:58 +0000

Gotta love it when people use Garašanin’s Načertanije as ‘proof’ of Serbia’s desire to create Greater Serbia. As someone who wrote a dissertation on this exact subject for my Master’s degree at King’s College London I can assure you that while the Načertanije initially started off as a pan-Serbian programme it quickly developed into a pan-Yugoslav plan to unite ALL south slavs (Serbs, Croats, Slovenes and even Bulgarians at one point) so your mentioning of the Načertanije kind of defeats your own argument that the Serbs were warmongering nationalists in 1914 with a desire to make a Greater Serbia. This is backed up by the fact that Serbia rejected the terms of the Treaty of London 1915 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_London_(1915)) which proposed the creation of a Greater Serbia BY THE ALLIES in order to unify all south Slavs in the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes (Yugoslavia) after the war ended.
Furthermore, as Andriy correctly points out, the last thing Serbia wanted was a war with Austria-Hungary after the debilitating Balkan Wars of 1912-1913. Yes, they had a desire to free their Slavic brethren west of the river Drina, but this was definitely not on their mind in 1914. Serbian Prime Minister Nikola Pasic was devastated when he heard about the murders in Sarajevo because he knew it meant disaster for Serbia…
Lastly, all this talk of ‘murders in Albania’ without citing quotes is just sloppy and lazy. Why not mention Serbian murders in Japan or Serbian murders on Mars? Because there is no evidence for it of course, same as these so-called ‘murders in Albania’.

By: MickerExtreme

MickerExtreme — Sun, 29 Jun 2014 06:59:14 +0000

-I didn’t give ypu citations of Serbian crimes because I don’t know anything about that.
-The reason why they assasinated Ferdinand was because they thought that making Austria in a position where they have no heir would cause a collapse of the nation, so Serbia could expand west. The date of the visit wasn’t related to this.

By: dingishere

dingishere — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:59:53 +0000

“the way I wrote it..”..

The Grammer Nazi inside me is twitching…

By: Andriy_

Andriy_ — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:20:32 +0000

- Concerning the date, yes, the date simbolizes Serbian national spirit and has great patriotic meaning to them. And in Bosnia they were under Austrian rule. So if a opressor ( I dont agree the Austrians were that much loved in Bosnia, hence the movements against them) sends his representative to parade the streets on your most important national holiday, it comes as no suprise that they reacted. There is even some speculation that this had been planned by Franz Jozef in advance as a way to provoke the Serbs.
- I am familiar with the work of Ilija Garašanin, and you are right about the nature of Načertanije. But Serbia must had been aware that, at that speficic piont in history, war with Austria was impossible to win. And war was the last thing they wanted, I am certain. The nature of their reponse to Austrian ultimatum gives me reason to think so.
- You still haven’t given me citations about Serbian pre WWI crimes in Albania.

By: Rigawe

Rigawe — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 18:18:45 +0000

Man, i don’t know what to answer to you…
I can only quote Obi-Wan
“Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.”
For you he’s a hero.
For me he’s the guy who has started the war who killed around 1,700,000 people in my country, and later bringing all the shit to start WWII.

So yeah for me that’s not a hero…

By: MickerExtreme

MickerExtreme — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:55:15 +0000

You are absolutely right, sir! A few buildings are a direct proof that the Austrian and Hungarian government was awesome. There is no need to look at attempts to germanize and hungarize(?) the Croatian people(read: erase Croats as a seperate nation). Also, Belgrade was never under the authority of Austro-Hungary, so how did they build stuff there???

By: MickerExtreme

MickerExtreme — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:50:23 +0000

-Why would a visit of an Austrian heir be an insult to the Serbs? It’s not like the Austrians fought in that battle. But then again, Serbs celebrate that battle as a moment of triumph for their nation, so I’m not gonna pretend I’m an expert here.
-Serbia was aggresive at the time because it wanted to make Načertanije come to life(if you are not from the former Yugoslavia, you might not know about this, so let me clarify. Načertanije is a “plan” drawn up in 1844(Serbia was an autonomus province at this time) by the Serb minister Ilija Garašanin. It proposed expansion west, east, and south(Greater Serbia)).

By: Khazzadumm

Khazzadumm — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:25:49 +0000

Princip was a brainwashed fool, from what was he liberating bosnia from? good administration? more progress in 8-9 years than in 500+ years of turkish occupation? The archduke whom he killed in cold blood planned do federalize AU and give it’s peoples more liberty and self-rule.

By: Khazzadumm

Khazzadumm — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:18:27 +0000

Lol, go look at Zagreb, Sarayevo, Belgrade, the most beautyful buildings are Austro-Hungarian, aside from second Yugoslavia, Austro-Hungarian rule was quite beneficial to the balkan nations, but alas they couldn’t appreciate what they had as their minds were poisoned by nationalism and yugoslavism.

By: Andriy_

Andriy_ — Sat, 28 Jun 2014 16:09:00 +0000

- First of all, you are overlooking the date of the visit, 28th of June, or Vidovdan in Serbia. It is the date of the Battle of Kosovo in 1389. probably the most important historical date for any Serb in a year. The visit was seen as an insult by the Serb population in Bosnia.
- You say Serbia was agressive at the time. What makes you think that? Serbia fought in the Balkans wars (along side other Balkan states) in 1912-1913 against the Ottomans, and at a great cost. To remind you this was just a couple of years before WWI. Before that Austria enforced a customs war on Serbia (Pig War) because it wanted Serbia under her econimic control. So Serbia was in no state to wage another war, let alone a war against one of the superpowers of Europe. To say Serbia wanted war is ludacris.
- You mention Serbian pre WWI crimes in Albania? Can you give me any citations for this? Because as far as i know Serbia encouraged uprisings in Albania against the Ottomans.