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	<title>Comments on: Insider Returns to Talk About Skill MM</title>
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	<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/</link>
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		<title>By: SchnickSchnack</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SchnickSchnack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It is more complex than you put it. The snowball effect only happens at one flank, not at the whole map simultaneously. Also the effect only matters, if both teams lemming over the same flank and fight each other in a 10vs10+.

The blue and green players would suffer the most. But everyone would gain a better gaming experience, because the matches would be more fun.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is more complex than you put it. The snowball effect only happens at one flank, not at the whole map simultaneously. Also the effect only matters, if both teams lemming over the same flank and fight each other in a 10vs10+.</p>
<p>The blue and green players would suffer the most. But everyone would gain a better gaming experience, because the matches would be more fun.</p>
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		<title>By: ThaElf</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201658</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ThaElf]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201658</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;ve not even played for a year... yet for those 2½ I did... Playing a medium even when it was T9 tops didn&#039;t mean bad... mostly mediums stomp heavies and TDs, but it was back then more about having that arty to take care of the said heavy opposition, but still a smart heavy was smart just as bad medium was bad.

Perception of mirroring teams is just bad, but having same amount of OP tanks would be nice... Oh, but according to WG there is none...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not even played for a year&#8230; yet for those 2½ I did&#8230; Playing a medium even when it was T9 tops didn&#8217;t mean bad&#8230; mostly mediums stomp heavies and TDs, but it was back then more about having that arty to take care of the said heavy opposition, but still a smart heavy was smart just as bad medium was bad.</p>
<p>Perception of mirroring teams is just bad, but having same amount of OP tanks would be nice&#8230; Oh, but according to WG there is none&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Immortalek</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Immortalek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 07:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are 2 kind of MM problems ... 
1. Two min battles with results 15:2 or 2:15. This problem is caused by WoT action for example the Medium and Light tank this month. 
2. This problem came up from the type of tanks in team. Last month I play very often the games where my team has 5 medium tanks in the top and the oponent team has 3 Heavies and 2 TD. This is the worsed scenario on the huge amonut of maps. You have maybe the speed but they heve fire power and armor and if oponents heavies are not fully tomatoes and go in one group on right place it is the lost game in 90% of cases.

Conclusion &gt; If my team heve 5 mediums on the top enemy team shoud have 5 mediums on the top too. Its fine that the weight of tanks on both side are same but the setup is totaly wrong ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are 2 kind of MM problems &#8230;<br />
1. Two min battles with results 15:2 or 2:15. This problem is caused by WoT action for example the Medium and Light tank this month.<br />
2. This problem came up from the type of tanks in team. Last month I play very often the games where my team has 5 medium tanks in the top and the oponent team has 3 Heavies and 2 TD. This is the worsed scenario on the huge amonut of maps. You have maybe the speed but they heve fire power and armor and if oponents heavies are not fully tomatoes and go in one group on right place it is the lost game in 90% of cases.</p>
<p>Conclusion &gt; If my team heve 5 mediums on the top enemy team shoud have 5 mediums on the top too. Its fine that the weight of tanks on both side are same but the setup is totaly wrong &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: falcor</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201461</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[falcor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 06:58:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201461</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One way to give the &quot;give us skill based MM&quot; people sortof what they want would be to create a Tier X league that you can turn on and off. Turn it on and when you play a tier X tank you are sent to games with either +50% winrate players (50% overall or on the specific Tier X tank can be debated) if you are above it yourself and if you&#039;re not you get to play with the 50% winrate or less players. It&#039;s like an extra dimension of the end game play.

That way randoms and Tier 1-9 are still free for all and are just that &quot;Random&quot; and there&#039;s a higher area of gameplay for those that qualify for it. If you enable it by tank % then it could also give the benefit of not excluding every player that has below 50% winrate overall.

I&#039;m sure this idea is full of holes but feel free to point them out to me,]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way to give the &#8220;give us skill based MM&#8221; people sortof what they want would be to create a Tier X league that you can turn on and off. Turn it on and when you play a tier X tank you are sent to games with either +50% winrate players (50% overall or on the specific Tier X tank can be debated) if you are above it yourself and if you&#8217;re not you get to play with the 50% winrate or less players. It&#8217;s like an extra dimension of the end game play.</p>
<p>That way randoms and Tier 1-9 are still free for all and are just that &#8220;Random&#8221; and there&#8217;s a higher area of gameplay for those that qualify for it. If you enable it by tank % then it could also give the benefit of not excluding every player that has below 50% winrate overall.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure this idea is full of holes but feel free to point them out to me,</p>
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		<title>By: Mc307-NA</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201454</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mc307-NA]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2014 04:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Stats-unicums&quot; don&#039;t freaking know what they are asking for ;))]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Stats-unicums&#8221; don&#8217;t freaking know what they are asking for ;))</p>
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		<title>By: clb1</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[clb1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 20:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One thing that many topics of skill based matchmaking skip over is getting rid of the landslide/steamroll battles and the battle with predetermined outcomes due to very large skill differences.  

In an analysis of over 2,000 solo pub battles, this is what i found:
Players lose less than 3% of the battles with a greater than 60% XVM chance to win.
Players win less than 3% of the battles with a less than 40% XVM chance to win.
the battles outside of the 40-60% chance to win range account for about 30% of the average player&#039;s battles.
So basically 30% of the average player&#039;s battles have a predetermined result due to the difference in skill between the teams.

If we could get rid of the battles outside of the XVM 40-60% chance to win range the game play would be more dependent on layer skill and teamwork.  Yet it wouldn&#039;t force everyone to have the same win rate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that many topics of skill based matchmaking skip over is getting rid of the landslide/steamroll battles and the battle with predetermined outcomes due to very large skill differences.  </p>
<p>In an analysis of over 2,000 solo pub battles, this is what i found:<br />
Players lose less than 3% of the battles with a greater than 60% XVM chance to win.<br />
Players win less than 3% of the battles with a less than 40% XVM chance to win.<br />
the battles outside of the 40-60% chance to win range account for about 30% of the average player&#8217;s battles.<br />
So basically 30% of the average player&#8217;s battles have a predetermined result due to the difference in skill between the teams.</p>
<p>If we could get rid of the battles outside of the XVM 40-60% chance to win range the game play would be more dependent on layer skill and teamwork.  Yet it wouldn&#8217;t force everyone to have the same win rate.</p>
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		<title>By: 3Form</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201412</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[3Form]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 19:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201412</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rofl, a player is only good because he&#039;s better than other players. By definition he&#039;s better than bad players.

I&#039;m guessing you&#039;re bad.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rofl, a player is only good because he&#8217;s better than other players. By definition he&#8217;s better than bad players.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing you&#8217;re bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Janez Kranjski</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201407</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Janez Kranjski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201407</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just base MM on something like average base xp and introduce high and low skill caps, so highly skilled and unskilled players have something to match them to.

I don&#039;t think it would cause problems such as clans splitting etc. It&#039;s each player&#039;s choice where he will play.

There is also some players who can&#039;t be bothered to play randoms much because they are too easy and are searching for other things, If they like randomness and bad team mates they can always switch back to non skill based random battles. There would be randomness in positioning, timing, line-ups, player performance in skill based games, you might just have more elements of teamplay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just base MM on something like average base xp and introduce high and low skill caps, so highly skilled and unskilled players have something to match them to.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think it would cause problems such as clans splitting etc. It&#8217;s each player&#8217;s choice where he will play.</p>
<p>There is also some players who can&#8217;t be bothered to play randoms much because they are too easy and are searching for other things, If they like randomness and bad team mates they can always switch back to non skill based random battles. There would be randomness in positioning, timing, line-ups, player performance in skill based games, you might just have more elements of teamplay.</p>
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		<title>By: Necator</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201402</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Necator]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201402</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Here&#039;s the thing, SS. Many other games have skill-based matchmaking, and no one complains about it, unless the Dunning-Kruger effect is coming into play ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) . Almost all MOBA&#039;s, StarCraft I and II, some MMO&#039;s in their PvP, etc etc, incorporate this sort of matchmaking.

Now, it can be argued that the MMO pvp has RNG to it, but skill is also a huge factor (far more important is when or how one uses abilities, rather than if it hits for 100 damage more or less).

There&#039;s literally no reason skill-based MM can&#039;t be implemented into WoT; indeed, if the devs want WoT to be taken seriously as an E-sport, they nearly HAVE to implement it. At least 50% of the whining will be because it&#039;s a new thing and people hate change. And the other 50% will be the devs whining because it means they will have to drastically reduce or remove the RNG in one or both of penetration and damage rolls, which they inexplicably love so much.

To all the naysayers saying unica won&#039;t be unica. This is true from a stats standpoint - superunica like Garbad or Sela (US server... sorry I do not know the names of any EU or RU unica by heart) will no longer have win rates or WN*&#039;s literally dozens of percentiles higher than the average. However, their skill will place them in a much higher bracket. The new unica will be Platinum or Diamond or higher (to use SC2/League of Legends terminology), and all the bads will be pushed down into whatever the lowest bracket is.

TL;DR Skill-based matchmaking is a typical case of &quot;naysayers don&#039;t actually understand skill-based matchmaking.&quot; However, we all know that it is very hard for Wargaming to &quot;properly&quot; implement something, so unfortunately the naysayers will get to say &quot;we told you so.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the thing, SS. Many other games have skill-based matchmaking, and no one complains about it, unless the Dunning-Kruger effect is coming into play ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect</a>) . Almost all MOBA&#8217;s, StarCraft I and II, some MMO&#8217;s in their PvP, etc etc, incorporate this sort of matchmaking.</p>
<p>Now, it can be argued that the MMO pvp has RNG to it, but skill is also a huge factor (far more important is when or how one uses abilities, rather than if it hits for 100 damage more or less).</p>
<p>There&#8217;s literally no reason skill-based MM can&#8217;t be implemented into WoT; indeed, if the devs want WoT to be taken seriously as an E-sport, they nearly HAVE to implement it. At least 50% of the whining will be because it&#8217;s a new thing and people hate change. And the other 50% will be the devs whining because it means they will have to drastically reduce or remove the RNG in one or both of penetration and damage rolls, which they inexplicably love so much.</p>
<p>To all the naysayers saying unica won&#8217;t be unica. This is true from a stats standpoint &#8211; superunica like Garbad or Sela (US server&#8230; sorry I do not know the names of any EU or RU unica by heart) will no longer have win rates or WN*&#8217;s literally dozens of percentiles higher than the average. However, their skill will place them in a much higher bracket. The new unica will be Platinum or Diamond or higher (to use SC2/League of Legends terminology), and all the bads will be pushed down into whatever the lowest bracket is.</p>
<p>TL;DR Skill-based matchmaking is a typical case of &#8220;naysayers don&#8217;t actually understand skill-based matchmaking.&#8221; However, we all know that it is very hard for Wargaming to &#8220;properly&#8221; implement something, so unfortunately the naysayers will get to say &#8220;we told you so.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: mr_clark</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/09/27/insider-returns-to-talk-about-skill-mm/#comment-201401</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mr_clark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=17561#comment-201401</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I see it a main problem with &quot;fair skilled teams&quot; is platooning. How much time will it take to balance platoons between teams?

And from personal perspective: There&#039;s hardly ever a unicum playing alone. A Unicum platoon is 20% of a team and 10% of the overall tanks. That&#039;s were a lot of the wipes I experience come from (a load of the others from &quot;bot level&quot; platoons)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I see it a main problem with &#8220;fair skilled teams&#8221; is platooning. How much time will it take to balance platoons between teams?</p>
<p>And from personal perspective: There&#8217;s hardly ever a unicum playing alone. A Unicum platoon is 20% of a team and 10% of the overall tanks. That&#8217;s were a lot of the wipes I experience come from (a load of the others from &#8220;bot level&#8221; platoons)</p>
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