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	<title>Comments on: Israel in World of Tanks?</title>
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		<title>By: laifs</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273190</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[laifs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2016 05:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273190</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was also thinking this, but they could of course ruin the L7 and give it AP for some reason, and ban APDS. They could also make the handling horrible, and just make it not an L7 anymore.

They are introducing a new tier VIII HT with the AMX50B&#039;s 120mm though, which is why I think it&#039;s a valid point. That gun has 257mm pen or so. The L7 still has higher pen, but given some horrible AP rounds with 230mm pen or something, they could fit it in tier VIII.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was also thinking this, but they could of course ruin the L7 and give it AP for some reason, and ban APDS. They could also make the handling horrible, and just make it not an L7 anymore.</p>
<p>They are introducing a new tier VIII HT with the AMX50B&#8217;s 120mm though, which is why I think it&#8217;s a valid point. That gun has 257mm pen or so. The L7 still has higher pen, but given some horrible AP rounds with 230mm pen or something, they could fit it in tier VIII.</p>
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		<title>By: Franz Hammermann</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Franz Hammermann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jul 2016 18:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;You want the role of armor to become more important?&quot; &quot;Yea! Please give us a gun on a T8 HT that has more pen then the T34 which makes any sort of armor useless on that tier already!&quot;

105 mm L7 is too much for a T8 heavy, period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You want the role of armor to become more important?&#8221; &#8220;Yea! Please give us a gun on a T8 HT that has more pen then the T34 which makes any sort of armor useless on that tier already!&#8221;</p>
<p>105 mm L7 is too much for a T8 heavy, period.</p>
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		<title>By: Culloden Muir</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Culloden Muir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2016 18:10:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, three medium lines is a bit much, as despite the Sho&#039;t Kal and Magach both being iconic and well known as being used by Israel, we&#039;re unlikely to see them unless Wargaming really wants to tap into the market of Israeli modelers and fans, as the tanks are famous. But if the Merkava is made a heavy, including a true medium branch like that of the Tiran 4/5 at tier 9 and Samovar at tier 10 becomes much more doable, and despite people not liking clones, T-54/55 variants are always popular. So if the Merkava is a medium, only count on one Israeli branch, whereas if it&#039;s a heavy, the possibility of getting two branches, medium and heavy, is much more likely. Plus, the Arab TD line can be scrapped and the Sherman AMX and Egyptian T-34/100 can be the tier 7 and 8 medium tanks of that &quot;Soviet&quot; branch instead. So there is some flexibility there.

Also, the tier 8 &quot;Mule&quot; was just a reversed and widened Centurion chassis with the turret mounted at the rear solely as a counterweight. So nothing was changed about the engine, and it most likely would have gone faster backwards because of this, much like the Archer. I could see it keeping this feature in-game, but I can also see Wargaming buffing it up to 30-35km/h in order to make it more mobile. So that being said, as a heavy with something like the 105mm L7, it becomes a nasty tank to face, even if the armor isn&#039;t the greatest as it was only given enough armor to resemble the Merkava mockup. Although the ass of the tank would troll people quite well since the rear would have the same armor as the Centurion 7/1 has on the front. So yeah, it would function sort of like a rear-turreted Caernarvon that trades some of its gun depression and mobility for the use of the 105mm L7.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, three medium lines is a bit much, as despite the Sho&#8217;t Kal and Magach both being iconic and well known as being used by Israel, we&#8217;re unlikely to see them unless Wargaming really wants to tap into the market of Israeli modelers and fans, as the tanks are famous. But if the Merkava is made a heavy, including a true medium branch like that of the Tiran 4/5 at tier 9 and Samovar at tier 10 becomes much more doable, and despite people not liking clones, T-54/55 variants are always popular. So if the Merkava is a medium, only count on one Israeli branch, whereas if it&#8217;s a heavy, the possibility of getting two branches, medium and heavy, is much more likely. Plus, the Arab TD line can be scrapped and the Sherman AMX and Egyptian T-34/100 can be the tier 7 and 8 medium tanks of that &#8220;Soviet&#8221; branch instead. So there is some flexibility there.</p>
<p>Also, the tier 8 &#8220;Mule&#8221; was just a reversed and widened Centurion chassis with the turret mounted at the rear solely as a counterweight. So nothing was changed about the engine, and it most likely would have gone faster backwards because of this, much like the Archer. I could see it keeping this feature in-game, but I can also see Wargaming buffing it up to 30-35km/h in order to make it more mobile. So that being said, as a heavy with something like the 105mm L7, it becomes a nasty tank to face, even if the armor isn&#8217;t the greatest as it was only given enough armor to resemble the Merkava mockup. Although the ass of the tank would troll people quite well since the rear would have the same armor as the Centurion 7/1 has on the front. So yeah, it would function sort of like a rear-turreted Caernarvon that trades some of its gun depression and mobility for the use of the 105mm L7.</p>
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		<title>By: laifs</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[laifs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2016 16:23:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ah, I see, for the sake of the other mediums too, the Merkava would need to be a heavy. I guess three medium lines might be a bit excessive for a new nation.

I knew the Merkava used off-the-shelf spare Centurion and Patton parts, but I didn&#039;t realise the tier VIII prototype would be that slow. I thought it would have the mobility of a Centurion. If it&#039;s reverse gear, its max speed would be in the 20kmph range, unless they really strain the gearbox. Do you know if they put the transmission backwards? i.e. whether it moves faster backwards than forward.

As for the 20pdr, I can see it being lacking, I like it though, it has great handling. I didn&#039;t like it in the Centurion 7/1, it would need an alpha buff similar to how the T-54 gets an alpha buff while keeping the same calibre for me to like it. I do agree the Caernarvon would be more respected if it had the L7 though, it even mounts the Action X turret already!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I see, for the sake of the other mediums too, the Merkava would need to be a heavy. I guess three medium lines might be a bit excessive for a new nation.</p>
<p>I knew the Merkava used off-the-shelf spare Centurion and Patton parts, but I didn&#8217;t realise the tier VIII prototype would be that slow. I thought it would have the mobility of a Centurion. If it&#8217;s reverse gear, its max speed would be in the 20kmph range, unless they really strain the gearbox. Do you know if they put the transmission backwards? i.e. whether it moves faster backwards than forward.</p>
<p>As for the 20pdr, I can see it being lacking, I like it though, it has great handling. I didn&#8217;t like it in the Centurion 7/1, it would need an alpha buff similar to how the T-54 gets an alpha buff while keeping the same calibre for me to like it. I do agree the Caernarvon would be more respected if it had the L7 though, it even mounts the Action X turret already!</p>
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		<title>By: Culloden Muir</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273179</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Culloden Muir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2016 01:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273179</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the Merkava is made a medium, a role it could fit quite well, it means there&#039;s almost no chance whatsoever of getting any other tank branch alongside it. So no Sho&#039;t Kal, no Magach,and no Tirans or Samovar, either. Furthermore, if it&#039;s made a medium, there wouldn&#039;t be a tier 8 Merkava variant either, as the tier 8 medium would be the Sherman M-51. 

As for giving the tier 8 Merkava variant the 105mm L7, on a tier 8 it would be perfectly fine. I don&#039;t think anyone would complain about the Caernarvon getting the 105mm L7, as the tank is quite mediocre as it is with that same 20-pdr B-barrel. In addition, the vehicle used the reverse gear of the original Centurion engine, the 650hp Meteor, to move forward. Meaning the top speed, is going to be quite bad. So it&#039;s going to be a big, slow, and heavy vehicle, that is going to need something like the 105mm L7 to make it work. And given the AMX 65t appears to be a tier 8 heavy with the same tier 10 120mm that the AMX 50B gets, there is precedent for such a thing too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Merkava is made a medium, a role it could fit quite well, it means there&#8217;s almost no chance whatsoever of getting any other tank branch alongside it. So no Sho&#8217;t Kal, no Magach,and no Tirans or Samovar, either. Furthermore, if it&#8217;s made a medium, there wouldn&#8217;t be a tier 8 Merkava variant either, as the tier 8 medium would be the Sherman M-51. </p>
<p>As for giving the tier 8 Merkava variant the 105mm L7, on a tier 8 it would be perfectly fine. I don&#8217;t think anyone would complain about the Caernarvon getting the 105mm L7, as the tank is quite mediocre as it is with that same 20-pdr B-barrel. In addition, the vehicle used the reverse gear of the original Centurion engine, the 650hp Meteor, to move forward. Meaning the top speed, is going to be quite bad. So it&#8217;s going to be a big, slow, and heavy vehicle, that is going to need something like the 105mm L7 to make it work. And given the AMX 65t appears to be a tier 8 heavy with the same tier 10 120mm that the AMX 50B gets, there is precedent for such a thing too.</p>
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		<title>By: laifs</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[laifs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Jul 2016 17:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh man, you sent me down the comment war rabbit hole between sp15 and Life_In_Black.

What do you think about the Merkava being a heavy though?
Do you think it&#039;s better than it being a medium?

I personally think the Merkava would fit better as a medium than a heavy because retraining crews at tier VIII to a completely different class is a bit annoying. The French line is already annoying enough (which makes me wonder about the Swedish branch), and makes it not very friendly to new-ish players. Only reason I can get away with the French line is a couple of extra crews I accumulate over thousands of battles. 

I believe it was mentioned that the tier VIII Merkava might mount the L7, which I am doubting: unless you completely ruin the L7 by giving it horrible stats and banning the use of high-pen APDS, it&#039;d not fit. What&#039;s wrong with the 20 pdr anyway? Give it the Type B, with high DPM and it would be another use for the Type B other than that gun everyone in the Centurion 7/1 has to grind through.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh man, you sent me down the comment war rabbit hole between sp15 and Life_In_Black.</p>
<p>What do you think about the Merkava being a heavy though?<br />
Do you think it&#8217;s better than it being a medium?</p>
<p>I personally think the Merkava would fit better as a medium than a heavy because retraining crews at tier VIII to a completely different class is a bit annoying. The French line is already annoying enough (which makes me wonder about the Swedish branch), and makes it not very friendly to new-ish players. Only reason I can get away with the French line is a couple of extra crews I accumulate over thousands of battles. </p>
<p>I believe it was mentioned that the tier VIII Merkava might mount the L7, which I am doubting: unless you completely ruin the L7 by giving it horrible stats and banning the use of high-pen APDS, it&#8217;d not fit. What&#8217;s wrong with the 20 pdr anyway? Give it the Type B, with high DPM and it would be another use for the Type B other than that gun everyone in the Centurion 7/1 has to grind through.</p>
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		<title>By: ndiver</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273173</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ndiver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2016 17:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The authors of the Swiss tree(s) suggested to only include the Panzer 58 and the Panzer 68, and keep the Panzer 61 as a reward premium, because of its similarities with the two other ones.
What i wanted to say since the beginning is that the Swiss tree is much more complete and has far less clones than other nations like Spain, Italy, Poland or Yugoslavia, and has a potential equivalent in term of tanks at least to the current French tree.
With the Sweden and Israel, it is a tree that has definitively potential and would deserve to be included.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The authors of the Swiss tree(s) suggested to only include the Panzer 58 and the Panzer 68, and keep the Panzer 61 as a reward premium, because of its similarities with the two other ones.<br />
What i wanted to say since the beginning is that the Swiss tree is much more complete and has far less clones than other nations like Spain, Italy, Poland or Yugoslavia, and has a potential equivalent in term of tanks at least to the current French tree.<br />
With the Sweden and Israel, it is a tree that has definitively potential and would deserve to be included.</p>
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		<title>By: Culloden Muir</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273172</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Culloden Muir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2016 16:01:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273172</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The other problem with Switzerland though, is that while some people have heard of the Panzer 68, it definitely isn&#039;t iconic. On the other hand, tanks like the S-tank and Merkava are both very iconic, and the Merkava has the added bonus of having seen combat, something that very few tier 10 vehicles can claim. Also, the differences between the Panzer 58, Panzer 61, and Panzer 68 are quite minimal in game terms, so it is sort of copy and paste. While the Israeli tree would have lots of copy pastes in the forms of Shermans, and others, the tanks were not only modified by Israel, but also saw combat. Plus they&#039;re quite well known in all of the modeling and tank history circles, which means that even people who don&#039;t normally game online will pay attention to World of Tanks if they&#039;re implemented. Switzerland just can&#039;t compete in terms of popularity sadly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other problem with Switzerland though, is that while some people have heard of the Panzer 68, it definitely isn&#8217;t iconic. On the other hand, tanks like the S-tank and Merkava are both very iconic, and the Merkava has the added bonus of having seen combat, something that very few tier 10 vehicles can claim. Also, the differences between the Panzer 58, Panzer 61, and Panzer 68 are quite minimal in game terms, so it is sort of copy and paste. While the Israeli tree would have lots of copy pastes in the forms of Shermans, and others, the tanks were not only modified by Israel, but also saw combat. Plus they&#8217;re quite well known in all of the modeling and tank history circles, which means that even people who don&#8217;t normally game online will pay attention to World of Tanks if they&#8217;re implemented. Switzerland just can&#8217;t compete in terms of popularity sadly.</p>
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		<title>By: Culloden Muir</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273171</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Culloden Muir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2016 15:51:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273171</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you had actually read through my thread over on the forums, you&#039;d have realized that I created an alternative TD branch that didn&#039;t have the Koksan artillery piece. But the fact you can&#039;t even tell the TD branch is an &quot;Arab&quot; branch, means you haven&#039;t read through the thread at all. Furthermore, yes, the Lebanese T-55 with the 122mm D-30, and the Iraqi T-55 with the 130mm M-46 are both technically artillery pieces in, as is the Koksan (Iraq captured several Koksans from Iran during the Iran-Iraq War), they&#039;re useless in an artillery line in WoT, especially as Israel has no trouble making an artillery line all on their own. So making them TDs makes the most sense for getting these unique vehicles into the game. And to be honest, the TD line could be scrapped, and the Sherman AMX and Egyptian T-34/100 could become tier 7 and 8 mediums leading to the Tiran 4/5 and Samovar. Which again, a sensible person would have realized before flying off the handle on a blog about something they clearly have little knowledge on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you had actually read through my thread over on the forums, you&#8217;d have realized that I created an alternative TD branch that didn&#8217;t have the Koksan artillery piece. But the fact you can&#8217;t even tell the TD branch is an &#8220;Arab&#8221; branch, means you haven&#8217;t read through the thread at all. Furthermore, yes, the Lebanese T-55 with the 122mm D-30, and the Iraqi T-55 with the 130mm M-46 are both technically artillery pieces in, as is the Koksan (Iraq captured several Koksans from Iran during the Iran-Iraq War), they&#8217;re useless in an artillery line in WoT, especially as Israel has no trouble making an artillery line all on their own. So making them TDs makes the most sense for getting these unique vehicles into the game. And to be honest, the TD line could be scrapped, and the Sherman AMX and Egyptian T-34/100 could become tier 7 and 8 mediums leading to the Tiran 4/5 and Samovar. Which again, a sensible person would have realized before flying off the handle on a blog about something they clearly have little knowledge on.</p>
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		<title>By: ndiver</title>
		<link>http://ftr.wot-news.com/2016/07/01/israel-in-world-of-tanks/#comment-273170</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ndiver]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jul 2016 13:12:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ftr.wot-news.com/?p=22752#comment-273170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That&#039;s cool to reply without even reading the thread in question: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/426870-an-israeli-tech-tree-in-world-of-tanks/
The TD branch correspond to Panarab tanks captured by Israel during the 6 Days War: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/426870-an-israeli-tech-tree-in-world-of-tanks/page__st__20__pid__8669576#entry8669576
That allows to introduce in WoT these tanks in a gameplay different from the Soviet meds they are based on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s cool to reply without even reading the thread in question: <a href="http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/426870-an-israeli-tech-tree-in-world-of-tanks/" rel="nofollow">http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/426870-an-israeli-tech-tree-in-world-of-tanks/</a><br />
The TD branch correspond to Panarab tanks captured by Israel during the 6 Days War: <a href="http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/426870-an-israeli-tech-tree-in-world-of-tanks/page__st__20__pid__8669576#entry8669576" rel="nofollow">http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/426870-an-israeli-tech-tree-in-world-of-tanks/page__st__20__pid__8669576#entry8669576</a><br />
That allows to introduce in WoT these tanks in a gameplay different from the Soviet meds they are based on.</p>
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