So I’ve done a couple of Italian tank articles now and I haven’t done the most famous of all; the Fiat 2000. I also must thank Zarax too for his help with this one too.

Having witnessed the success of tanks in France in 1917 Italy set out about obtaining FT-17 and Schneider tanks from France. Fiat however perhaps sensing a lucrative contract in the offing had started designed a Special Assault Tank as early as August 1916 before any official Italian Government interest.

This design was finally ready in January 1918 in the form of the Fiat 2000.

Fiat 2000 Prototype Hull on trial ~June 1917

2nd Prototype late 1917 to early 1918 with upper structure partially completed and first model cylindrical turret.

Most sources agree that two examples (some say 6 but it could be a mistake just like the first edition of’Taschenbuch der Panzer’ mistakenly assumed 10 were produced) were built and accepted for service under the name Carro d’Assaulto Fiat 2000 M.17. Changes from the prototype were the use of a large and very distinctive domed turret.

Completed Fiat 2000 at public parade probably Rome either 1918 or 1919

Original specifications vary slightly from source to source (often due to conversions back and forth between Metric and Imperial units) but even so the vehicle is large. A mass of just under 40,000kg and a crew of 8 to 10. It’s possible that the original design using a hull with the mechanicals separate from the upper structure was to allow the hulls to be the basis of other vehicle types such as SPG’s.

Interior layout showing crew positions and mechanicals

Fiat spent a lot of money on these vehicles using the best quality armour available from the steel works at Terni using vanadium armour plate intended for Italian warships such as the ‘Christopher Columbus’ and was significantly more expensive than standard armour. The armour was made from standardised 20mm armour plate with 15mm armour plate for the roof.

The Fiat 2000 had an aviation engine in the form of the original Fiat A12 petrol engine producing 200 horsepower from 6 cylinders delivering 5hp/tonne and a top speed of 7.5kmh.

Large armoured skirts made from 20mm plate cover the 4 bogied suspension units on each side, although track chains were noted as being exposed to enemy fire as weakness.

On the issue of armament Major Bennicelli (the man responsible for bringing the Renault FT-17 to Italy) seems to have been pushing for a 75mm gun or 76mm.
Major Bennicelli being an artillery man was probably choosing the 75/27CK or similar type of gun he would have been familiar with. A later plan on 1st May 1918 planned to install an improved 77mm gun but in the end the chosen gun was the 65mm Mountain Howitzer with 8 machine guns.

One source states that a 14mm heavy machine gun was also either planned or fitted with the main gun but it cannot be verified photographically at this time.
A final improvement which was mulled was the installation of the improved A12 Fiat aviation engine which produced 240hp (some sources mentions 245-250hp) which would have improved performance to a little over 6hp/tonne.

When Italy however adopted the Renault tank design Fiat had these vehicles in hand and officially dropped production on 4th November 1918. This Renault design would be produced but under their own name ‘Fiat 3000’ and thus Fiat managed to very successfully hedge their bets and ensure they got the contract for manufacture of Italy’s early tank force. This kind of industrial machination would later plague Italian tank production but that’s for another time.

Italy in this period controlled modern day Libya having taken it before World War I. Post WW1 there was a series of Arab revolts in Libya and one or both of them (sources disagree) were dispatched in No.1 Batteria Autonoma Carri D’Assaulto in the early 1920’s.

Fiat 2000 on active service in Libya

The only known account of their combat use comes from ‘Le Forze Armate’ saying that they were both to be used for the reconquest of Giarabub but that one broke down at Porto Bardia and the other some distance from the action leaving the actual battle to be carried out with only Fiat 3000s and a variety of armoured cars and trucks. Col. Pederzini states that one of the Fiat 2000′s was later dismantled in Benghasi prior to 1935 for unstated reasons. Whether they saw any action elsewhere in Libya is not known at this time but the late Libyan dictator Colonel Gaddafi put them on his stamps in action.

Following service in Libya the Fiat 2000 did not go away. Indeed Fiat made very good use of it for promotion and propaganda purposes and in 1934 received its last known modification bringing it to M.34 status. Two of the front machine guns on the corners were removed and replaced with 37mm L.40 guns. It’s possible that at this time the engine was improved too but its not clear.

Fiat 2000 M.34

Despite the improvements though, even this remaining example has faded away prior to WWII despite having been used at some point as a monument in Bologna. The final fate remains a mystery which is a shame for a vehicle to my mind is a truly interesting and distinctive vehicle.

Ironically this was to be the heaviest tank produced by Italy for almost the next 40 years and a technological peak that was soon lost due to obsolete military doctrine that stubbornly focused on the concept of “mountain tanks” and saw land war limited to defending the alpine peaks despite being a colonial power.

All in all, the Fiat 2000 could be considered the ultimate WWI heavy tank at least in concept, sporting decent but not brilliant mobility for its time, adequate armour protection and more than enough fire power to support infantry assaults.

The Fiat 2000 is a unique design which had its faults but was a very advanced vehicle for its age and deserves a place of its own in the World of Tanks.

Sources:

Le Forze Armate, 1935 – Colonel Pederzini, Italian Tanks 1917-1945 by Dr.Emiliano Ciaralli, Taschenbuch der Panzer, Fighting Tanks Since 1916 by Robert Icks

Fiat 3000B

In 1917 Count Alfredo Bennicelli (a Major and later Colonel in the Artillery) saw the success of tanks. The Italians were interested in the French FT-17 and obtained 3 French made Renault FT-17s along with 2 Schneider tanks. The Schneiders did not arrive until late 1918 but the FT-17’s arrived from France on 2nd August 1918 at Piacenza.

Count Alfredo Bennicelli climbing out of a Renault FT-17

They do not appear to have seen action for Italy in WW1 (although some sources say that they were sent to the Carso front) and as a response to the development of tanks and the obtaining these Renaults, Fiat produced their own tank; the Fiat 2000 which is an iconic beast in its own right and subject for a write up another time.

Fiat 3000 M.1921 (Series I) Left.                                    Fiat 3000 M.1921 (Series II) Right.

Renault could not meet the Italian production requirements of 200 a month starting May 1919 and had already purchased 84 FT-17’s in 1917, for a total of 1400 units ordered. Major Bennicelli conducted negotiations with Renault and the Ministry of War agreed to produce a version of the Renault in Italy. This contract to produce the FT-17 in Italy was to be an improved vehicle and given the name (Carro d’Assaulto) Fiat 3000.

Fiat 3000 M.1921 (Series III)

Fiat 3000 M.1921 (twin Lewis guns)

The first production vehicle of a batch of 100 was finished in June 1920 and 100 examples entered service in 1921 named Fiat 3000A. The first Fiat 3000s underwent acceptance trials in late 1921 and it was already found to be underarmed with only machine guns and needing a cannon to enable it to fight enemy armoured vehicles. This change though was slow in coming.

Machine gun turret mount

Following manouevres in 1927 and 1928 again this deficiency was highlighted and eventually in collaboration with the Turin Arsenal they installed the 37mm L.40 cannon into the turret; which required some modification. Along with some improvements to the hull this became the Modello 1930 of Fiat 3000B.

This improved vehicle was manufactured in 52 examples in 1929 (entered service 1930) and sported a better engine, suspension, tracks (the first vehicles used a smooth plate French track and the later ones used a contoured tracks for improved grip) and armament, namely a 37mm L.40 gun as well as a Breda 8mm machine gun. There were a number of variants of no relevance to WoT such as smoke generating vehicles etc.

Turret mount for the 37mm L.40 (numbers shown are +20/-10)

Fiat 3000 M.1930 with 37mm gun offset in turret

So in a nutshell the Fiat 3000 and Fiat 3000A are just copies of the FT-17 and the Fiat 3000B is an improved vehicle. The Fiat 3000 was essentially obsolete by the time it entered Italian service as it did not fit with the requirements they had for mobility, reliability or combat. It had been relegated to second line and training duties prior to the outbreak of WW2.

By February 1939 some 90 of these vehicle were still armed with twin 8mm Fiat M.35 Machine Guns and a further 37 had been stripped of their 37mm guns to be reused elsewhere. A report that month from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs confirmed major flaws with the Fiat 3000 which by this time was also known as the M.21/30, (It is also sometimes referred to as L.5/21 and L.5/30 respectively because of changes in Italian tank classification systems around that time) the reports conclusions were damning:

• Too slow – 18kmh top speed
• Small width lends itself to toppling over when crossing rough ground [not an advantage when planning for fighting in the mountains of Italy]
• Even with better tracks than the original FT-17 from which it was copied the new plates were inadequate and broke off easily
• Low radius of action being a mere 60km or 4 hours of operation off-road
• Inadequate armour [6-16mm] against new anti-tank weapons
• Problems with engine and transmission
• Components built in 1919 were technically outdated

None-the-less this vehicle stayed in service being deployed in the African campaigns by Italy and in Sicily against the Allies as late as July 1943. Try fighting M4’s in your FT-17 in game to see how well it works out for you and you get an idea of what totally unrealistic expectations were put on the poor crews of these things.

As I said earlier it is a very close visual copy of the FT-17 we already have in game in more than one iteration already. So it could definitely fill the requirements for a Tier I tank depending on whether you want yet another FT-17 tank at Tier 1 or not.

The WoT game thrives on the fact that there is a mix of play styles and vehicles to sum up different attributes of tanks which suit in varying degrees the styles of various players. The game needs a broad appeal of gamers and those historically minded individuals who want to fight in the real vehicles of the past. For me the Fiat 3000 is an uninspiring choice adding little to the game in terms of diversity, and historically there are issues too.

Lewis gun armed Fiat 3000 M.21 early pattern tracks

There is only one real gun option at Tier 1, the 37/40; although Italy was supplied with surplus French FT-17 turrets by Germany with the 37mm L.21 as well during the war. Next issue is that it is a dead-end technologically. Fiat abandoned their gloriously beautiful Fiat 2000 to build these things and they lead nowhere. (There was an 105mm SPG project based on an FT-17 hull but it too lead nowhere) The Fiat 3000 is not ‘legendary’ or ‘iconic’ in any sense of the word and does not epitomise Italian design in any way.

Compare and contrast with the CV.3 series vehicles (yes, I love them I admit it) which not just served prior to WW2, in the Spanish Civil War, throughout the whole of the war for Italy and beyond in a Policing capacity (last one being retired from service in 1950) but was also the most produced tank by Italy. The CV.3 series served on all Italian fronts and many other fronts too for other countries and led directly to both the Italian Medium and Light Tanks. In this we have the crux of the matter.

A tech tree needs a logical (where possible) technological progression. In this instance we have a choice of two Tier 1 tanks; the Fiat 3000 and the CV.3 Series. So unless it starts from the CV.3 or a vehicle derived from it there can be no technological progression.

Fiat 3000 M.21 with later pattern contoured tracks

So there you have it. It is no worse than any other Tier I but it is a rather boring, and unimaginative choice for a tech tree. I’d prefer something distinctively Italian to start their tree. Those are my opinions good or bad and not necessarily shared in whole or in part with anyone else.

Sources:

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/200193-italian-tanks/#topmost   The Fighting Tanks Since 1916 – Robert Icks,    Italian Tanks 1917-1945 – Dr. Emiliano Ciaralli,     Iron Arm – John Sweet,     Festung Italien – Carlo Clerici,     Mezzi Corazzati Italiano – Paolo Emilio Papo,      La Meccannizzazione dell’Esercito Italiano – Ceva and Curami,     www.regioesercito.it     www.britishpathe.com

Italy’s Workhorse; the CV.3 Series

Development

The CV.3 tank was developed from the British Vickers-Carden-Loyd Mk.VI, examples of which Italy had bought complete in 1929 along with kits for a further 21 vehicles and a licence (a little later) to produce more which were named CV.29. The CV.29 initially used the same Ford Model T 4 cylinder petrol engine producing 20hp and had armour ranging from 4 to 9mm thick. After a fairly short development process the first vehicles were accepted in 1933 under the name Carro Veloce 3. (Fast Tank 3 tonnes – even though it weighed 3.2 to 3.4 tonnes depending on source) The name was later changed to L.3/33. (‘Leggero’ Light Tank 3 tonnes 1933 and the names L.3 and CV.3 are used interchangeably across sources. I prefer CV.3 so shall stick with that)

Initial models of the CV.3/33 were armed with a single Fiat-Revelli M.14 or M.35 Aircraft MG and others with a short 37mm cannon. The hulls went through numerous changes too lengthy to go into here and so did the suspension system but over the development of the series the Italians moved from an all welded upper structure on the CV.3/33 to a bolted body on the later CV.3/35 and CV.3/38 not because the Italians lacked welding technology but for ease and quickness of manufacture.

Armour

Armour Scheme from British report of captured vehicle (weapon shown is the Lanciafiamme flamethrower)

When the second series of production (CV.3/35) came around they were up-armed to a twin MG setup using Fiat M.18 or M.25 8mm MG’s or Breda M.35 8mm MG’s and the addition of a track tensioner wheel. All of the early vehicles were meant to be upgraded to this leading to numerous configurations. The CV.3/35 also differed slightly internally from the earlier CV.3/33 as it replaced the linoleum covered wooden floor (inside the steel hull) with one of waterproof painted plywood. Both versions retained padded seats and height adjustments so both members could ride the vehicle with their heads out. There are also at least two different style of steel track used too.

Some of the different configurations for the suspension

View of inside of the firing position showing rear of twin MG setup.

The gun mount on the front left of the hull had a good range of motion:

Gun elevation maximum:     15 degrees
Gun depression maximum:  12 degrees
Gun traverse each way:       12 degrees (24 degrees total)

Engine and transmission

A variety of engines were used in the series from 38hp to around 46p giving a top speed of about 42 kmh.

Engines and layout in vehicle along with gearbox with workings exposed.

The gearbox was an aluminium case as were the pistons in the Fiat SPA CV3-005 engine and could also had a second starter inside the vehicle by means of a crank which was a novel feature continuing into the M.11/39 Medium Tank which British examiners considered very useful.

“provision is made for starting externally and from the fighting compartment. It is our opinion that this latter feature might with advantage be incorporated in our own design” – British military assessment

The same report also notes that:

“…..the mechanical layout and design shows considerable ingenuity combined with a certain freedom from conventional ideas. The latter is doubtless due to the fact that the various components appear to have been designed specifically for the job and not originally for some other purpose. The above remarks apply in particular to the power plant layout which is exceptionally compact”

 Variants

CV.3/38 with 13.2mm Breda Model 1931 Heavy Machine Gun

Carro Radio: (Command version with radios)

Carro Lanciafiamme CV.33 Lf:

3 of the various flamethrower setups

CV.3/33 Carro Gettaponte: Carrying a 7m bridge

CV.3/33 Carro Recupero: Light recovery vehicle

Semovente da 47/32: Prototype tank destroyer version

Mortar Carrier: Fitted with the unusual 45mm Brixia mortar

CV.3/33 CC (Controcarro): 20mm Solothurn S-18/1100 or 1000

Breda 20mm Cannon:

The CV.3 was widely exported to countries including Afghanistan, Albania, Austria, Bolivia, Brazil, Bulgaria, China, Czechoslovakia, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Greece, Hungary, Iraq, Paraguay, Spain, United Kingdom, Yemen and Yugoslavia. They also served with German forces following the Italian capitulation of September 1943.

CV.3 Series vehicle in German service

So the important issue of course is can it fit in the game and if so how?

Well. Italy obviously has the Fiat 3000 which to all intents and purposes is just an improved French Renault FT-17 and would obviously be able to fill the Tier 1 slot.

But do we really want yet another identi-tank Tier 1? For me I see the CV.3 as Italy’s most numerous tank and as the proginator of following tanks as absolutely essential to fitting on the future Italian tank tank line in whatever form it takes.

The CV.3 directly led to the L.6/40 light tank (and a host of other tanks not getting out of prototype stage) but also to the Tank Destroyers starting with the Semovente 47/32 above through to the L.6 based experiments and Semovente vehicles but also the M.11 Medium tanks and all that follows whereas the Fiat 2000 is essentially a dead-end in technological terms.

To have a tree progressing from Tier 1 in technical terms it has to start with the CV.3 Series as the modules are used going up the tree to later vehicles whereas the Fiat 3000 a fine little vehicle as it was leads to nothing.

What it would be though is the first and only turretless Tier 1. Sure the early twin MG’s or HMG despite having some modest AP ability would be lacking but there is also a 37mm gun and a nice Breda 20mm cannon option too not to mention the Solothurn 20mm AT Rifle which has a choice of mounting options all of which are historic.

What you would get is a unique Tier 1 very different to everyone other nations with its own playstyle and a choice of guns to suit whether a player likes to snipe with good ROF and low damage like the Solothurn or burst some close range damage with a cannon or a longer range and slower firing 37mm gun. It would also be an extremely small target with pretty good sloping armour at the front and importantly a very decent top speed.

I see the CV.3 as a Tier 1 as being a very interesting development to the game and from a historical point of view essential to any implementation of Italian vehicles.

Size comparison with the Panther

Sources:

• Janes Tanks and Fighting Vehicles by Leland Ness
• Veicoli da Cambattimento dell’esercito italiano dal 1939 al 1945 by Cesare Falesi and Benedetto Pafi
• Italian Medium Tanks 1939-45 by F.Cappellano and P.Battistelli
• “Preliminary Report No.17, L.3-33 / L.3/35”, School of Tank Technology, October 1943
• “Preliminary Report No.11, M.11/39”, School of Tank Technology, March 1943
• www.tank.encylopedia.com  Tank Encycopedia.com
• “Illustrated Encyclopedia of the World´s Tanks and Fighting Vehicles”, by Christopher Foss, 1978.
• http://forum.worldof…lian-tanks/#top
• Carro Veloce C.V.33 e C.V.35, Storia Militare Magazine, March 1994
• Gli Autoveicoli da Combattimento Dell’Esercito Italiano V.2 – Pignato, Cappellano
• Italian Armoured Vehicles of World War Two by Nicola Pignato
• La Meccanizzazione dell Esercito Italiano by Ceva and Curami