China soldiers too tall and fat for older tanks…

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Source: http://news.yahoo.com/china-soldiers-too-big-outdated-tanks-report-062507074.html

Thanks to Aelaeca73 for sending the link :)

Puckapunyal-Type-59-MBT-1

From the article:

Chinese soldiers have become so much taller and fatter in recent years that they often find themselves cramped in tanks designed three decades ago, state media reported. A survey found that People’s Liberation Army troopers were on average two centimetres (0.8 inches) taller and five centimetres (two inches) fatter around the waist than 20 years ago, the military’s official PLA Daily reported Tuesday. As a result, it is harder for soldiers to squeeze into a tank designed for smaller personnel 30 years ago, it said. Rifle stocks are also too short for some, limiting their accuracy, it added.

The findings of the survey, which began in 2009 and included more than 20,000 soldiers, suggested an upgrade to the military’s equipment was necessary, the newspaper said, citing Ding Songtao, head of the poll project. “Equipment must be in the right size for the battlefield, as clothes have to be in everyday life,” Ding was quoted as saying. Obesity rates have almost doubled in China since 1980, according to a recent report by the Overseas Development Institute (ODI), a London-based think tank. The rise was attributed to diets changing with incomes rising, it said, and lifestyles become increasingly sedentary.

Well, this is inevitable for any nation I’d say. Crew comfort is just as important as any other tank feature, I am sure The_Chieftain could talk about this for a long time…

49 thoughts on “China soldiers too tall and fat for older tanks…”

  2. Maybe they could get some North Korean mercenaries? Although I imagine that North Korea looks after it’s military more than it’s peasants…..

    • In order for an American to get into the tank, you’d have to detach the turret, let him squeeze through the ring and them put the turret back :P

    • I don’t know about that. I had no trouble climbing into and out of a Jagdpanzer 38t (aka “Hetzer”) through the commander’s cupola at a fairly recent reenactment event, and as we all know the Hetzer isn’t exactly the largest armored vehicle to be built.

      The problem for me wasn’t the narrow cupola, which was in fact more than wide enough for somebody unless they weighed about 400 lbs or more, but getting on TOP of the damned thing to do it (the only way is to climb up the back, which involves first standing on top of the rear track guard and then using hand grips to pull yourself up the heavily-sloped rear of the vehicle and onto the top), and don’t get me STARTED about getting back down without hurting yourself. I asked the guys who operated it why the hell they didn’t just use the side hatches, to which they answered that those were emergency escape hatches that could only be opened and closed from the inside, and would probably be even more difficult to get in through due to the interior’s poor ergonomics.

      Even then it’s not very comfortable once one gets inside, but in my case it was a height issue (most German tankers back then weren’t six feet tall).

      I’ll agree with your statement though, while also adding that I’m an exception to the rule. XD

  4. Though it sounds funny the first time you read it, it’s actually rather impressive how fast the chinese military want to act upon such issues. It was rather common there (and still is in many western militaries) to ignore issues until it’s almost too late and than just apply a band-aid fix until the they are ready to ‘adopt the next generation of systems’.
    Of course how they actually handle the situation is to be seen, but that it’s getting openly discussed is notable in itself. On the other hand they were rather quick to fix the major issues with their QBZ-95 design with the updated QBZ-95-1. Which is of course quiet a bit cheaper to completly replace than a tank force.

    It could of course also be another push to a smaller, more streamlined force. Something the chinese military is heading towards in the recent decades, away from the ex-soviet bloc behemoth force.

      • Not having to go all the motions (and fiscal accountability) of democracy streamlines things, sure. (Oddly enough the end results still somehow always seem to come out as poop.) Though it’s probably more relevant that the last I heard the PLA was virtually a state within the state…

      • I don’t know about that. In recent years they’ve started to fall into the same pitfalls as western governments have due to the effects of globalization (contrary to popular belief, their economy is stagnating at the moment, not growing, or at least not growing anywhere near as quickly as it was prior to 2007, just to name an example).

    • Assuming, that for an AA/AD strategy you don’t need so many tanks anyways, this was going to happen anyways ;) Afterall you don’t have to sit inside your SRBM, so these stay viable :P

    • Because China is not as safe from land war against aggressors from north and southwest.

      Unlike U.S. which is pretty much safe as neither mexico nor canada have any reason nor capability to launch a land war against it.

    • Not like the Chinese are likely to be engaging in expeditionary warfare (which is, realistically, what “smaller, more streamlined forces” are mainly good for) anytime soon, whereas they still have huge land areas and endless and not entirely secure borders to look after. You need a lot of boots on the ground for that.

      • Not to mention you’d need ships and aircraft to get one’s assets to where they need to go in the event of a war abroad, which China for the most part doesn’t have yet (but they’re working hard on gaining ‘Blue Water’ capability and, more ambitiously, to build a Navy to rival the US Navy…well…unless they’re willing to shill out the cash for fourteen modern supercarriers, that’s not gonna happen anytime soon).

        • Good luck with the supercarriers, the last I checked the US was the sole operator of the class and I understand the big things – to speak nothing of all the necessary paraphenelia and support stuff – make quite the hole in the budget.

          Sounds more like a theoretical “in-principle” goal, to speak nothing of plain blustering, than anything realistically planned.

    • More like just *fed* Asians. Even relatively modest improvements in standards of living ergo nutrition have quite notable effects on average heights among the young.

        • More like unhealthy UP “food”, but yeah, it sure ain’t helping. Especially if the Chinese have the same thing about eating it being a kind of status symbol as just about every other developing economy, given their nouveau riche fixation on conspicious consumption.

  6. I’ve always had issues fitting in any tank.

    Being 2 meters tall and living in a country where the historical tanks I’ve had access to were all cramped Russian tanks I found it impossible to get inside any…I mean I can get in them but I can’t close any hatches or anything.

    It’s rough and kind of funny how little the soviets thought of human comfort…guess that’s why they are invading Kiev and shooting protesters right now.

    • Whoa..don’t get brainwashed about Kiev situation, it’s all the “beutiful” democracy who comes to life just like arabic spring, aided by some mouthwater from US an EU.

      • Having recently been to Kiev, its not that far fetched. ;) I’ve done business there for 3 years now and its corrupt like you wouldn’t believe, the current Government wants to keep it that way because they profit. Most Ukrainians I’ve talked too look West but moving to the West means the current Government cleaning up its act, something they won’t have to do if they go to Russia.

    • Well they had to have limits on the size of the tankers even back then. So the people that actually ended up in the tanks weren’t as cramped as you think. And ultimately smaller tank = harder to hit, and harder to spot, among other advantages.

    • Depends upon the tank tbh. It is always a case by case example to see if people will fit. Sadly for us 6 footers we wont fit very well in to a higher percentage of tanks.

  9. The Chinese Military should have hired me as a dietry advisor, I could have told them years ago of the effects of a Chinese meal every night, with the obligatory 10 pints of lager to wash it down of course LOL!

  11. Obesity – Not just for ‘Murricans anymore. :P (before you ask, yes, I’m American, but I at least give a damn about my health unlike a lot of people I know)

  13. I am 5.11 which is taller then my father who is 5.6, he was brought up on a diet of mostly potato, veg and bread as a filler, with very little meat.

    I remember my mother telling me about how she hated going for a meal with his family because it would just be a plate of veg and gravy with one pathetically thin slice of beef, she was always so hungry when staying over.

    That kind of diet stunts growth, and now that China’s population is eating more meats its no surprise to hear they are taller now, though the report seems to be mixing things up… I don’t think they need to make new tanks because their solders are fat, they can just put them on a stricter diet and training, if they are too tall though…

    Well, they could just do what the mighty mother Russia does, breed super human midgets to crew their tanks and take over the world!!

      • Convert it to metric system, it is easy, or are you an idiot? 12in = 1ft = 304.8mm, see easy.
        5ft 11in = 180.34cm
        5ft 6in = 167.64cm
        Real easy, it must be hard for euros.

        • …and 1in = 2.54mm, if memory serves.
          Doesn’t make it any less pointlessly archaic and inconvenient system of measurement to use, and more practically still causes unnecessary compatibility issues with stuff like screw twist ratios and what have you.

          Unless things have drastically changed since I was studying watchmaking about a decade ago, anyway.

          And look what you did, making me agree with Medjed on something. For shame, really.

      • tbh I seriously don’t know why we haven’t switched to metric long ago. The only reason I ever discuss measurements in terms of SI units is because so many people have no idea how the metric system works; hell, some don’t even know what it is.

  15. I can’t comment about Chinese tanks, but I can say it absolutely holds true for rifles.

    My (USSR-designed) Chinese-made SKS rifle has a terribly short length of pull (the stock feels short so you have to hold it closer to your body). It feels a bit uncomfortable and could potentially affect your shooting ability with the rifle. These rifles are notorious for this among Americans/Canadians of average/tall height.

    As diets have changed over the course of 70-80 years, it’s not wonder that military equipment from the WW2 era doesn’t fit modern people (or modern people don’t fit well in them, in the case of tanks).