Thanks to Gappa for this one.
Hello everyone,
remember how I wrote the post about the doom of the Tiger II tanks in southern Bohemia in May 1945? Consider this an… addition of sorts. Gappa sent me a couple of pictures, showing some interesting vehicles from the last days of war on the territory of Czechoslovakia, southern Bohemia specifically.
This is a Bergepanther with 37mm FlaK on it, unique field conversion. It arrived in the town of Jindřichův Hradec (German name: Neuhaus) on 5.5.1945. SS-Oberführer Bartl was negotiating safe passage of his units to the west (in order to surrender to the Americans) with local resistance members. This vehicle was guarding the building where the negotiations took place. He declared martial law in the town and ordered the local authorities to enforce it. In the end, the Waffen SS troops opened fire on the civilians in the town, killing 5 and forcing their way through.
Another (known) photo of the same vehicle
This is a US Army M5A1 Stuart, photographed in front of the chateau in Lnáře. Notice the twin gun mount on the top of it. According to the author of the photo, this was a twin (Zwilling) mount of German 20mm MG-151 autocannons.
Speaking of the Germans, trying to surrender to the Americans – from the previous article, you might remember the part where the Germans tried to push west, through Třeboň to get to the American lines. Some made it, some did not. The following photos show the Königstiger of the Feldherrnhalle heavy tank Abteilung commander, Captain Nordewin Von Diest-Körber. While trying to bypass an obstacle on one of the local roads, the tank went off-road and got stuck in a boggy wet terrain – its commander not only did not know local terrain, but it was also dark when it happened. The tank, stuck in the field and abandoned, became an attraction for the locals during the first days of freedom.
After the end of the war, the Soviets acquired their trophies. The following picture was taken at Veselí nad Lužnicí, where the Soviets had to use no less than three Stalinec tractors together to tow the previously immobilized Tiger II tank.
Source:
V.Kos – Květen 1945 v jižních Čechách
Really interesting pictures :)
I know this might sound weird, but I actually feel bad for the german soldiers who were captured by the Soviets and who couldn’t surrender to the americans :( I am sure at least half of those soldiers didn’t see the light of day again..
Because we should feel bad for them. Communists never had any kind of humanity for enemies, nor own people.
Personally, I feel bad for allies, who had helped the soviets. They have blood on their hands.
Ye, true, I don’t want to go off-topic too much but ye, I did read up on General Patton and he was one of the only people who knew the Soviet Union would become a problem after WW2 but nobody believed him.
You mean other than churchill, most of the british and commonwealth commanders, the free french, poles and czechs, most of the resistances and of course the defeated axis powers.
Roosevelt wanted the war over before he died with as few dead americans as possible, and for that he wanted soviet help against japan and so gave Stalin everything he wanted however Churchill complained. And then he still died before the war ended and left the cold war to his successors.
wrong, Chinese communists were the best to surrendering enemies
My great grandfather was killed by nazis, because he was a member of anti-nazi resistance. So when Iam reading some comments there, I am suprised by that how many ppl are defending and feeling with nazis..
Nazis where only part of german army. And yes they should pay for crimes.
But what about german soldiers , who where doing same stuff as lets say american soldiers?
I think like 80% of german army didn’t even knew about all Nazis stuff.
It’s easier to hate all, but not all are responsible for crimes of nazis.
A lot of them was as scared of SS squadrons as non-german natrions -.-
Do I need to remind you here that pretty soon after Barbarossa started the Einsatzgruppen death squads were complaining about regular soldiers coming to ogle their execution sites and take pictures?
The list of atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht proper isn’t exactly short, I seem to recall.
Before we’re going this road again, let me remind you that war isn’t supposed to be flowers and happiness and all. If you think the Germans are the ones to have done horrible things to mankind, then may I tell you that war is horrible in general and that both parties commit horrible crimes? I’m not here to defend Germany or justify their actions, but the Allies weren’t so nice to the Germans either…bombing raids, rape, you name it. There’s no evil and good side in war. It’s all evil.
Germany != Nazis
My great-grandfather was deported and gassed, my great-grandmother bombed in her own apartment, my great-uncle died when captured as a member of La Resistance.
My grandfather was strafed by stukas while fleeing Paris to join up with the FFL, then fought the Germans in Normandy 3 years later.
His wife’s family was exterminated in Warsaw in 1944.
And after all that, he forgave the Germans, because even a man who lost all that understood the difference between nazis and a regular axis soldier.
Don’t make a fool of yourself, and understand the difference.
Forgiving does NOT mean rewriting history in a reviosionist way. It certainly does NOT mean forgetting.
Again, no one is forgetting about nazis.
But 70 years later, still berating poor bastards 16-60 years of age drafted to fight for their country, is wrong.
They didn’t do anything wrong the same way a US soldier didn’t do anything wrong by going to fight in the war.
The nazis giving the orders, and the SS carrying out the crimes against humanity though…that’s an entire other story.
Again, I can’t be any clearer, German soldiers ARE NOT nazis.
So yes, you can feel sorry for them. You can feel sorry for a 16 year old kid who was told to fight for his life in Berlin, against the entire Red Army, and either died there, or was captured and treated inhumanely.
Actually from what I’ve read the Western Allied soldiers at least tended to find the teenager soldiers just about the ones *most* likely to be blinkered hardcore Nazis quite willing to trade their lives for a few “enemies of the Reich”. The older troopers were by and large more likely to stick to the generally accepted “rules of war” and not, say, suddenly try to pull a grenade on you when surrendering.
Having been put through the full monty of Third Reich totalitarian indoctrination from early age kind of did that, and youngsters’ universal unawareness of their own mortality helped none.
Also the last I checked there was no particular shortage of either firm faith in the “party line” in the regular military (though by ’45 a whole lot of disillusionement had crept in) nor of culpability in any number of awful deeds particularly out East. The Soviets had ample cause to be mighty pissed off you know.
And even then AFAIK Germans soldiers captured by the Soviets had on the average better chances of surviving than was the case vise versa – callous neglect being by and large rather more survivable than active murderousness.
The same way you can feel sorry for a 12year old Taliban suicide-bombing your whole family. Not mentioning other things he would do, or already did, in his conscience, no matter how brainwashed.
There were different kinds of Germans, but Nazi were NOT Martians…
So many people meet bad end , that trying to count every possibility is just too much.
Forced labor in Germany – Soviets/Americans , Polish , ect where doing their own war in ammo assembly centers.
Like mixing sand with gunpowder in tank/artillery shells.
My granddad got 3 of his fingers cut off for such thing.
Ofc Germans took Russian soldiers and killed them instantly , luckily for my ancestor he knew some German , and could read schematics. If not this possibly he would be killed too :/
So what about them? Resistant slaves/ forced labor who couldn’t even fight on even ground.
But every shell that never exploded, or left cannon barrel. it’s all thanks to this people. Who knows how many people they saved.
Like, really? Because Germans treated Soviet POW in a human way…Because Germans treated civilian population in a human way…
Learn some history. They had it coming.
WOW NICE, those poor GERMANS who KILLED 18% Russians and 15% of all people in my country and HOW MANY JEWS!!
POOR GERMANS REALLY????
The russians didn’t exactly like jews either… And yes I too feel bad for the soldiers lured into fighting for germany and left to the russians too. That doesn’t as many other suggest mean I like the Nazi scumbags who deserve to roast in hell forever
The Russians never tried to annihilate the “Jewish race”, so that’s not much of an argument.
Also good luck telling the “good Germans” from the “bad Germans” beyond the blatant cases – the postwar denazification authorities certainly couldn’t do it with any degree of reliability. “Lured into fighting for Germany” is a nonsensical phrase outside the foreign SS volunteers (whose personal motivations didn’t necessarily have much to do with ideology anyway) however, given that the military service was on straight conscription basis…
Worth noting however that unlike their Italian peers neither the German establishement nor the populace rose against the lunatics in charge when things patently started going to Hell; by way of comparision even the Japanese secret police lost a lot of sleep over the prospect of a popular uprising.
[quote]The Russians never tried to annihilate the “Jewish race”, so that’s not much of an argument.”[/quote]
pogrom was originally a Russian word……
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom
I am aware. Now did you actually have some kind of point?
Both my grandfathers fought, one uncle and one grandmother was in the WAAF. All of them served from 1939. In 1946 one grandfather with his wife who was in the WAAF decided to go to Hamburg, as a kind of holiday. They realised that things wouldn’t change unless we reconciled. Not all Germans were Nazis, many were just misguided and truly sorry for what happened.
I’m lucky enough, to be old enough all my grand parents were alive and influenced me for the first 20 or so years of my life, told me first hand experiences and all of them didn’t just tell me war was bad but made their peace with what happened.
If these people can reconcile, who actually fought the Germans, then you should as well. Keeping on hating doesn’t serve any other purpose other than to forget the problems of the past.
Yea, sure. Because British population suffered from bombing – compare this to atrocities on continental Europe. I’m not saying this was nothing, but soldiers actually have easier time when it comes to reconciliation and forgiving. And there is no comparing how British POW were treated vs Russian POW.
Learn from history. Endless cycles of hate leads to more hate and more death.
You mean, like how the Soviets actually played pretty nice in Germany since buffer client state practicalities >>>>>> revenge?
Hate? Like, you prefer “the other cheek” christian thing? Jedem das Seine…
GJ being a bigoted retard who needs to get a life.
That’s quite enough of that conversation, guys. Thanks.
As opposed to what, the Red Army POWs who were deliberately and systematically starved to death in the millions? The Soviets had no shortage of perfectly legit reasons to be howling mad, although after what happened in East Prussia the top brass kind of about-faced on the “bloody vengeance” issue for a lenghty list of sound practical reasons.
The Panther in the 1st picture looks sexy :D
Sold turret and bought a FlaK with gold for more seaclubing :D
That doesn’t make sense Woras.
What? FlaK cant have gold ammo?
Not enough pen still.
load Stronk Soviet shells, it will work :)
Freedom shells can penetrate the thickest fascist or commie armor.
TRU FAX OF LYFE SON
Yeah it’s amazing how the russian government in the past and present managed to get the entire population scared of everybody else, while they themselves are the most rotten system in the modern society with no care for anyone in their own society that doesn’t have power or wealth…
Uh, that latter part isn’t exactly unusual you know. Describes eg. the US neocon types pretty well.
Russia is pretty bad right now, no opposition, multiple state run news agencies and Putin unless he goes full dictator will be President until 2024. At leas the US isn’t so brazen to have state run news telling only pro-Government stories. In the US you have at best party news agencies which isn’t the same thing i.e. Fox news. Loves Republicans, hates Democrats.
Sure, but that was neither the point nor the topic.
I dislike* both Russian and German people. Especially old hags.
Why? Check “Holodomor” and “Wolfskinder” on Google.
Stalin was Georgian ya know…