Preliminary Comparison of “Light T-54″ and Type 59

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Hello everyone,

yesterday, the new “Light T-54″ (I will call it LT-54 in this article) tier 8 premium medium tank was unveiled and it was only natural people immediately started speculating. Will it be another Type 59? Will it be overpowered for a premium tank? Or will it disappear into the pit of mediocrity like the T-34-3? Well, let’s have a look at both.

Keep in mind that the supertester statistics leaked are preliminary, which means they can (and probably will) change.

The Armor

Here are both armor schematics of the vehicles. Type 59:

armor

And LT-54:

AvLHOpq7BjE

Unlike other statistics, armor is probably not very likely to change. As you can see, the Type 59 armor is clearly superior in practically every aspect. The LT-54 has 80mm frontal armor (sloped at 60 degrees makes it 160mm effectively thick, not counting the normalization), the Type 59 has 200mm frontal effective armor (100mm at 60 degrees). While 160mm is still a relatively good value, it will make it vulnerable to the guns of tier 8 tanks as well, such as the D-10, that appears in numerous models of vehicles. The LT-54 frontal turret is 180-160mm thick and the area of this maximum thickness is smaller than the Type 59 has. Type 59 frontal turret armor is 200mm thick, making it practically impervious to vehicles of tiers 6-8. Furthermore, the LT-54 will have a massive weakspot on the top of the turret, with the hatches being significantly thinner as well (looks like 91mm, Type 59 has 130mm hatches). The side armor on the Type 59 is 80mm thick, the side armor on the LT-54 looks like 60mm. That is not an issue only because of its thickness, but also due to the overmatch.

In the armor department, the Type 59 clearly wins.

Firepower

Now, the leaked stats for the LT-54 come from Tank Inspector. The thing is, Tank Inspector has several settings, where you can decide, what influences the stats. So I will be hoping that the leaker used default settings, I think he did, in which case the 100 percent crew bonus is taken into account.

Both vehicles are using what in real life was essentially the same gun: the WW2 100mm D-10T variants we all know and love. The Chinese version has higher penetration (a long time ago, there was a talk of improving the Soviet penetration to this level as well, but the developers never got to do it).

First number will refer to LT-54, second to Type 59

Penetration: 175/181
Damage: 250/250
Damage to modules: 135/135
DPM: 1819/1798 (oho, first points for the LT-54!)
Reload time: 8,247/8,342 (logical, given the better DPM of LT-54)
Rate of fire: 7,276/7,192
Ammo carried: 34/34
Shell velocity: 895/900 (LT-54 has a tiny bit slower shell)
Gun depression: -5/-7 (huge bonus for the Type 59, -5 depression will be painful on a tank that seems to rely on maneuvering)
Accuracy (nominal): 0,4/0,39 (again, LT-54 has worse accuracy by a notch)
Aimtime: 2,68/2,78 (LT-54 gun aims faster, nominal value will probably be 2,8s compared to 2,9s of Type 59)

Gold ammo penetration (assumed): 235/241

Regarding the accuracy on the move, the LT-54 seems to be a bit more accurate than the Type 59. It’s hard to say here, the winner is not clear, but I’ll go with Type 59, because every milimeter of better penetration is worth it. The LT-54 fires faster and aims faster, but is also less accurate. In a high-speed brawl (when shooting exposed side and rear armor), the LT-54 will have a slight advantage. It is clear that the developers want to balance this tank as a pure brawler. But will the mobility match it?

Mobility

Same as before – first number is LT-54, second number is the Type 59

Weight: 30,79t/36t
Engine: 520hp/520hp
Power-to-weight: 16,89/14,44 hp/t – as you can see, absolutely clear advantage for the LT-54
Hull traverse: 44/46 (slight advantage for the Type 59, but this is relatively irrelevant given how terrain resistance plays a role)
Unfortunately, maximum speed was not leaked, but let’s assume it’s historical:
Speed: 58,7/56
Terrain resistance:
LT-54 – 0,959/1,151/1,918
Type 59 – 0,863/0,959/1,918
In traverse and resistance both, LT-54 is inferior. We will however have to see, how much will the better horsepower influence the entire vehicle. I would say, slight advantage to the LT-54.

The Rest

Viewrange: 385/380 meters
Signal range: 800/600 meters
Hitpoints: 1300/1300

On the supertest however, the LT-54 does NOT have limited MM, Type 59 does have it. I think it’s realistic to assume that both will have limited MM in the end, because going up against tier 10′s with a stock D-10T and no armor is suicide.

Verdict

With all three factors (armor, mobility and firepower) taken into account, it seems clear that in its current form (!), LT-54 is inferior to the Type 59 in practically every important respect. The armor seems to be the most problematic part (allowing even lower tier tanks to damage the vehicle, whereas the Type 59 would is invulnerable to the lower tier guns). Both vehicles have roughly the same firepower, with differences being in singular percents or less. The mobility is hard to determine given many factors that play into it, but I think it will be comparable to Type 59 more or less, possibly with slightly higher acceleration and speed. We’ll have to see and wait for the 9.2 test for this vehicle to appear in supertester hands to know more, but at this point, I am not exactly hyped. At least it looks good though.

159 thoughts on “Preliminary Comparison of “Light T-54″ and Type 59”

  1. T-34-3 cant be mediocre if its unique…
    Just saying. Its a fairly good tank that may need slight buffs, but due to having different gameplay, is in no way something mediocre.

    Anyways, shouldnt D10T have even more penetration? It was close to 88 L71, so around 185-190 pen for all soviets and chinese :P ?

    • I definetely think YES!! The same happens to the second gun of the pershing. Both the 100mm D-10T and the 90mm T15E2M2 had similar values to the 88mm L71 (withworse accuracy), so I think that both really need a buff (for example pershing is not a pure brawler and in tier 9 and 10 you need gold to deal with some heavies and TD)

      • I thought that the USA 90mm gun was historically supposed to shoot APCR… in which case it surpasses the L/71 in in-game stats.

        Correct me if I’m wrong.

      • 90mm did not have worse accuracy. This is a myth. US vehicles in fact had super high accuracy as accuracy comes down to proper machining and the US had bar none the best production lines on earth.

        Hell even the short 75mm INRL was amazingly accurate for how short its barrel was.

        90mm INRL hits coke cans at 500m.

        Also the D-10T later with better ammo had similiar pen to the long 88mm but during WW2 was not the same.

        If we take the 185mm that was stated as low end of 88mm its 20mm more pen I think.

        • KV-1S with 122 having around 190 pen, that would be more overkill than any tank in the game currently is…I’d even not call it OP any more.

          Given the devs won’t nerf the KV-1S, which will sadly never happen.

    • On a side-note, I have to mention that I agree with Alexander: the T-34-3 is something that shouldn’t be compared to neither the good ol’ Type nor the LT-54. Probably the only similarity we can find is the looks of it, and the fact that it is a medium tank with a crew of 4. It’s certainly not a popular tank either, but from what I’ve seen the reason is probably that a lot of players who just got one is trying to use it as if it were a “standard” ru-like brawling vehicle (personally i tried to use it as it is one as well. After a 100 disappointing games I had to revise my “approach”, and it looks like it’s starting to pay off. )

      Do we know anything about the camo-values of this little bugger?

    • You’re thinking of the later versions of the 100mm. The D-10, a modified naval gun, was better than the 88 L/56 and 75 L/70 but not the 88 L/71. 100mm version would not pass that until better ammo came out.

  2. Well i guess it will have that premium T44 mobility which was hover mode once set in motion. The credit earnings also similar.

    Overall a faster type 59 but with inferior armor and certain gun characteristics. I dont think that will work out well. Type59 may be slower but it can bounce some rounds. This light T-54 will take every shot.

    This needs a rof of 8. It’s gotta have something unique and better.

    • It doesnt. Its Type59 what needs a nerf.
      And 8 ROF? Have you lost your mind? 2k DPM while T8 regulars got 1,7k? No comment.

        • Check T-44 or T-34-2/3 before spreading nonsense like this.
          And keep in mind “stock vehicle < premium vehicle < elite vehicle"

          • Prems are not worse than regular vehicles. They just shine in very niche roles.

            IS6 is one of best brawlers in game. 112 when used right mows down T9`s that cant pen it. Su122-44 is just OP.

            This whole Prem are worse isnt true, use gold in them and most are OP as hell.

            • Premiums are meant to be worse than elite equipped vehicles while being better than stock equipped vehicles. Thats fact.
              Otherwise it is Pay-to-Win element because they offer reduced MM in most cases.

                • SU-152 with better DPM and troll gun says hello to su-122-44.
                  E-25 is separate case and since camo value nerf wasnt applied here it really benefits from it. However it has to be played really well to shine and there is for example Sturer emil with its 490 dmg gun.
                  T-34-3 – srsly? you got to be only one in WoT community saying T-34-3 is OP :)

                • SU-152 is inferior to SU 122 44 mate. It is slower, much MUCH slower and with much worse armor.
                  It can make use of the slightly better DPM. the 152 cant. Its prefered gun is the 152mm Derp gun.

                  Damage is not everything. E25 is AT LEAST as good as the other tier 7 normal TDs.

                  I never said OP. I say JUST as good as normal tanks. Read mate :(

                • SU-152 got 122 and 152 and prefered gun is which you choose. With 152 you can one shot SU-122-44 reliably.
                  E-25 – well with E-25 it may be true
                  T-34-3 – DPM, gun depression, troll gun is what makes it worse than regular counterparts. That’s what cannot be said about Type59.

                • The 152mm gun CAN NOT penetrate the SU 122 44. It will need to use HE shells.
                  The 122 is uselss, low pen and on a imobile machine.

                  The 122 44 has better moblity and armor. It can actually use the damned gun well.

                  The T-34-3 is UNIQUE mate. Compare it with T-34-2.

                  Type 59 has shit gun. Mediocre mobility. Good armor and depression though

                • 152 mm gun characteristics 135/250/86 – 135 armor of AP shell is enough to penetrate trough the UFP (driver hatch or whaterver it is or part under gun)
                  T-34-3 – unique but with big drawbacks -T-34-2 will use 100mm for overal better stats.
                  Type 59 – offers much more armor, better gun depression while keeping majority of other stats except mobility of T-34-2

                • SU 122 44 has almost same armor as T-44…
                  135 pen is NOT enough.

                  Besides, battles are not 15 SU 152 vs 15 Su 122 44. Almost all 152 players will be using HE

                • I havent said anything about 15 v 15 and yes there are such a zones exactly those I stated check it in wot viewer / tank inspector.
                  And no I disagree they will load gold on it :)

                • With that accuracy to hit tohse zones?
                  So…

                  If its for gold rounds, then Type 59 does not have armor :P
                  Male up your mind!

                  Maybe the PoS Su 152 really can be good for certain people. I know its easy to clock 60+ Solo win on SU 122 44, but I struggled with even 55 on SU 152 and hated every minute of it.

                • Well I said that because majority of SU-152 players with 152 load HEAT.
                  But I also said it is able to penetrate 122-44 with 152mm without no problems try it yourself.

                • Su122-44 is so much better than SU152 its not even funny.

                  Xidex you are arguing on paper stats vs real life important stats.

                  12244 is so fast it turns 90 degrees fires and takes off again in 4 secs less than Su152, 4 seconds is life or death. That means arty is zoomed or they take a blind shot, that means you have been lit for 4 secs and now will die.

                  Speed and Camo for TD`s beats everything and the 12244`s 3k DPM is more than plenty to make up for anything the Su152 gets.

                  Also the SDu152 with derp is even slower.

              • Nope, show me where it says this. Thats not fact at all.

                IS6 vs IS3 alone is dead even. IS6 outclasses its DPM and armor by huge amounts.

                Su122-44 smokes any other T7 TD`s. E25 as well.

                Reduced MM makes these amazing for what they do. And most times the only area they suffer in is Penetration and they more than make up for it in Camo and Armor.

                Go get me quote where they say Prem is worse than Elite vehicle. I bet they never said this.

                Prem are better in diff areas.

                FCM played well can smoke any tank there is at T8 when I play it, and part of that is it never sees 10`s

            • 122 armor at cheeks… you got to be joking. Check facts before spreading nonsense.

                • Hull armor is not really better than T-44′s ( I would say it is equal).
                  It is as easy to shoot Panther II cheeks as easy to shoot T-44 cheeks (T-44 has strong mantles too)

                • T-44 mantlet is worse.
                  Against lower tier enemies, T-44 turret is better then P2 turret.
                  Against higher tier enemies, Panther 2 turret is better.

                  In World of Tanks Thickness>Slope. P2 hull is slightly more effective hull armor.

                • ” In World of Tanks Thickness>Slope.” – What a nonsense
                  Slope is what matters – if you got 180 armor non sloped. its worse than having 100 mm at 65 degrees.
                  Angling armour is what matters. Ask any skilled WoT player, especially Maus/ E100 drivers.

                • Except its 90mm at 60 vs 100mm at 55.

                  I am a skilled player and know angles and thicnkess. In this case, Panther 2 has better armor.
                  Thicker armor => less chance for overmatch and extra normalization bonuses

                • You may be skilled player but thats only little difference thats why I said they are equal.
                  Well you would need 180 mm cal to overmatch UFP of T-44 or 200mm cal for P2. THATs difference! you are ridiculous

                • You know there is a normalization bonus when you have twice the penetration as the other has armor.
                  240 pen guns have a slight bonus against 120mm plates for an example.

            • Panther II has armour? LOL

              Its the worst tier 8 med by far. Size and speed of a heavy without any of the benefits.

              • *sigh*
                I am talking armor. Not size. Not speed.

                Back when I played Panther 2, when it had great engine, it was a 60+% win rate vehicle for a sole player like me. So I really liked it

                • “back when you played it”

                  So if you haven’t played the current Panther II, don’t comment, as the game at tier 8 has changed significantly.

  3. On the supertest however, the LT-54 does NOT have limited MM, Type 59 does have it. I think it’s realistic to assume that both will have limited MM in the end, because going up against tier 10′s with a stock D-10T and no armor is suicide.

    did you ever played a T69? now thats a real suicide

    • But the key to drive a type 69 in those games is wait until the enemies have half of their tanks and take their back while they are fighting your top tiers and empty your drum on their ass ;)

      • That is the other option, but I don’t like using gold… Indeed, I only have one drum and it is reserved for special games (if I’m alone vs a heavy or a couple of damaged tanks and my team needs my best).

  4. Looks like nobody remembers 3 years ago when T8 medium tanks had 175 penetration(T-44), T23 had 160 if I am not mistaken(or 180, I don’t remember which one was the top gun) and only the Panther 2 had something over that (203mm). Players are being spoiled too much.
    It’s the same situation with T9 mediums, they used to have 215-220mm pen, now it’s regular that a T9 med will have 250+ penetration.

    • good old times, when gw panther was the last arty in the arty line… and maus had 3600 hp :) and vk4502b has a Km long 10,5 gun :D

    • T23 at T8 saw T10`s every other match and it was 160 pen.

      That is when T59 was god mode, spitting out 175 Pen rounds and gold rounds actually cost gold. T59 sinply was so OP it was game breaking and 3 T59`s murdered all.

    • Yeah but the only T10s people had to deal with was a few Heavies. Now T10 is filled with OP TDs and guns that have ultra high pen. T8s are so helpless in T10 matches now.

      • OMG the 490 Alpha on the IS7 that you couldnt pen because you didnt have gold was much more OP than TD`s now.

        IS7 was literally the end all be all. Maus was good but IS7 was fast had the exact same armor but only 704`s and T30`s could reliably pen it.

  5. It was expected for Light T-54 (whatever tier 8 med it was going to be) to be inferior as a successor to Type 59. It is no longer sold because it’s overpowered right?

  6. Type 59 armour isn’t really reliable anymore nowadays. There have been some new tanks with powerfull guns that simply troll all over it, and lets not forget that premium shells are now freely available. A Hellcat has 240mm pen with APCR and will put shot after shot through the Type if it needs to.

    So while armour is still good for trolling lowbies, I would rather take this LT-54… provided they make the ground resist a little better. I mean, come on. This thing was designed to cruise around at high speed, hence the reduction of armour (i.e. weight), don’t artificially make it slower.

    • yes the game is semi-broken by unbalance and shit, the only good attributed that can drive some fun in a med premium is it’s maneuverability and speed, they should make it a T50-2 med style premium and players will like it.

      like the lovely E-25 for example.

  7. Wow, Type 59 should have 200 mm efective frontal armor. That means Tiger 1 should have big problems penetrating it while angled. In reality it penetrates you every time, absolutly no chance to bounce, what so ever. If you look in Tank Inspector, the efective value is around 170mm, which is much more likely.

  8. And Type has reduced matchmaker to not see tier X tanks. Since LT-54 is going to be light tank, I honestly doubt that it will have similar mm, so have fun all buyers fighting over and over tiers X with 175 penetration.

    • It’s a medium tank, not a light. It was considered as T8 LT, but they decided to make it a premium /medium/. Regular T8 LT will be the ‘LTTB’, and a premium T8 LT will never exist.

      However, expect MM to change later. 112 and T-34-3 didn’t have limited MM in the first test either.

    • Its NOT A DAMN LIGHT TANK! Its a lighter VERSION of the T54, not a LIGHT TANK. Get your facts right. Its by no means a light tank. Its a medium and its most likely going to get pref. MM. So please stop spreading complete nonsense.

      • Lol everything is lighter than a OP fake ass 120mm Hull.

        Imagine in RL the 520 HP that the Proto 120mm Hull T54 had…..SO SLOW

        People can`t imagine how heavy 20mm of armor is over a huge surface area like that…Now add the fact the suspension hated it and the Engine was 520 HP.

        Anyways a 80mm Hull was still thicker than Leo 1 Hull and others

  9. Almost everyone commenting here forgot that Type59 is a bit OP for T8 premium with pref. MM and fits better T8 regular tank role.
    Do not try to compare LT-54 to something what even SerB said was mistake.
    I would compare it more to T-34-3 or even some regular tanks. (Dont forget “stock vehicle < premium vehicle < elite vehicle").
    For me its very good balanced premium vehicle.
    The only problem is many people awaits Type59 return or something with such characteristics.
    I believe if devs would put gun depression of Type59 back to historical 5 degrees + maybe some hull armor nerf it would be just fine then.
    Have look at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_59
    However this variant of Type59 seems interesting:
    Type 59-I
    Improved variant fitted with a Type 69-II 100 mm rifled gun, as well as a laser rangefinder, hydraulic servo-system, primitive fire-control system, automatic fire suppression system, and rubber track skirt. The Type 59-I includes several versions with different armour and fire control configurations.

    The Type 59-I includes several versions with different armour and fire control configurations. <—thats a lot of space to adjust vehicle just by saying "well in-game Type59 is Type 59-I from real life.

    • T59 has great Armor but since Gold rounds are used is much worse than it was. Its really not OP any longer. It is very powerful in the hands of an expert but has horrible Gun handling.

      Also T59 is sluggish.

      • Well saying armor isnt OP because there are gold rounds is not constructive. Gold can pen Maus turret with no probs. Do not look at armor while looking at the gold rounds at the same time. Look for example at T-34-3/2 or T44 which are comparable to Type59. They got absolutely INFERIOR OVERAL armor. Type59 also offer LFP with 175+ immunity while others T-34-3/T-34-2/T-44 offers 100/50/130 respectively.
        Use this http://tank-compare.com/en/compare/t-44/type-59/t-34-2#T1=352I286I251I439I181&T2=435I350I298I537I200&T3=444I360I307I546I203
        it should be set that T44 and 34-2 have 100mm guns choosen. Isnt it equal or a bit better overal?
        Then look at those tanks in Tank inspector/ WoT tank viewer.
        I assume it will be clear to you then :)

        • Maus also sucks now…So gold rounds argument holds.

          I have T59 so I dont need tank inspector, even though I have viewed it many times.

          The T59 acts like a mini Heavy. Its very sluggish for a medium and thats fine with its armor but in reality the armor really isnt great at all anymore.

          Once you get close to the T59 its UFP becomes far weaker as well.

          If this gets better gun handling it will be night and day better as a med tank with a T54 turret.

          USSR tanks like T62a have weak ass power to weight yet they are as fast as things like the STB1, why? Tack resist.

          So if it gets very small bloom like Rus meds get it will also be able to put its DPM on target way better than T59.

          We cannot tell until it comes out IMO. On paper I thought the STB1 was gonna be as good as USSRT meds and finally have a nato tank to challenge them. This is wrong. 140 is still best tank in game bar none.

          • sluggish? it goes even bit faster than T-34-3. It is far from being sluggish for medium tank. what do you expect armored leopard 1?
            “Once you get close to the T59 its UFP becomes far weaker as well.” – yes once you get close, aswell once you show sides it will hurt you. Oh come on man that’s not revelant.
            And again I dont know why do you ask to buff it so it will be equal or better than OP-59.
            Type 59 should be nerfed not this buffed and everything would be alright.

              • I drving T-34-3 with friends driving Type 59s and trust me it goes a bit faster. I tested it aswell.

                • That is not what math and stats say.
                  The Type 59s must have better crews.

                  Same Terrain resistance and turn speed + slightly higher HP/Ton = T-34-3 is slightly more mobile

                • Well thats really strange they had to buff its terrain resistance without any annoucment in patch notes . Because I swear when I checked T-34-3 stats last time it had a bit worse terrain resistance compared to Type59′s

                • I own one.

                  Lol you keep talking like a T59 expert and you have never driven one.

                  It is much slower in 90% of situations than a T34-3 and 100% over T54.

                  Also T59 was not taken away because it was “To OP” this is a rumor. They removed it because to put it in line with its T54 parent would have broken to many tanks back then. So it was much easier to remove it from game and then make lots of money on T59 sales etc.

                  Just like Lef Arty wasnt to OP or Micro Maus. They didnt fit the vision of the premiums and WG wanted money.

                  The T59 is now a solid T8 but gets murdered when it plays at T10 as its armor is butter and its to sluggish and gun handling sucks ass.

                  T44 beats it everytime at T10

    • Honestly, the Type 59 isn’t OP in general, you need to look at the whole picture. Yes, for tier 8, it is OP. But tier 8 mediums are UP usually. This normally wouldn’t be a problem, just have the prem UP as well… but tier 8 prem’s are a major selling point, no one wants them to be UP. Should make tier 7 the UP tier. Seriously, the T-34-2 and T-44, sure the mobility is there, but compared to tier 7 its not much better (except for the T-44 due to the T-43 xD). The T-34-1 honestly is just as good as the T-34-2 in the same tier, due to the better armor. And the difference between tier 9 and 8 compared to any other two tiers is remarkable. The Type should be as it was initially made, as it wasn’t OP for tier 9 vehicles, and the rest of the prem’s should be like that. However, the regular ones should be buffed, like 180 pen on the top gun of tier 8 meds… but tier 9 have 250, and tier 7 have ~175. It just doesn’t fit well…

      • “Honestly, the Type 59 isn’t OP in general, you need to look at the whole picture. Yes, for tier 8, it is OP.” – if its OP for T8 its OP in general then.
        However I would go for depression and LFP nerf as I stated earlier rather than buffing entire T8 regular vehicles which for me are not UP as you’re saying. In this case T-34-1 and 2 are maybe not that different but that’s not true as you stated example with T-44 (same goes for other nations T20 vs Pershing)

        • Why does it need nerf anyways? Its a limited run tank now that has already suffered major power creep?

          Do you have a T59? Have you played one?

          • Yes I did. Anyone not OP-59 biased who played it and played other regular tanks or T-34-3 (other prem meds are not comparable) can feel how different and better it is.
            And why it needs nerf? I reacts to guys asking for buff LT-54 stats so if OP-59 would be nerfed LT-54 and other vehicles wouldnt look bad in comparison to Type59

            • Type 59 is not OP anymore after MM changes.
              It is either slightly worse then a same level medium or AS good, which is what newer premium tanks are anyway.

              At most, what can be done is a buff to T-44 and Pershing penetration.

              • So T-34-3 is as good as same level mediums? Oh come on man T-34-3 and LT-54 (with this supertest stats) are made by great work of balance team (which put is just where they belong (premium vehicle characteristics). T-44 is just fine aswell Pershing is. I played them and they are not UP.
                Type59 is what needs nerf.

                • Yes it is. It is DIFFETEN (look post 1 dammit) not worse.
                  It is certainly in many ways superior to T-34-2 and inferior to it as well.

                  T-44 and Pershing dont “need” buffs. But buffing their penetratio would make historical sense and would ease their gameplay. Not make em OP

                  Argue why Type 59 would need a nerf.

                • You obviously own one, Alexander, it would need a nerf if for no other reason than to teach you objectivity and humility.

                • “objectivity”
                  Is not seen here and definitely not from you nor Rakyth.

                  BTW, I am QUITE a bit better in T-44… nerf it if you want to teach me humility.

              • T-34-2 is much more mobile, better DPM, better penetration, more accurate, aim faster, better camuflague and offers better gun depression
                T-34-3 got 20 + armor on hull and + 10 on turret +5 side hull and rear – thats ALL
                Type 59 – offers EVEN more armor overal (much more on sides), better gun depression while keeping majority of other stats except mobility of T-34-2

                • not enough camo but worse camo, worse mobility, only a bit more armor.
                  Its stupid to compare it like that because I would say majority of T-34-2 players would mount 100mm for better depression, penetration, acc, aim time and DPM
                  Its like saying cromwell equals M4 sherman or so just becaus it has howitzer as optional gun.

                • I mean it has enough camo. Sometimes, more =/= much better :(
                  Armor is MUCH more. 20mm on the plate is around 24-25 more effective armor. T-34-2 gets penetrated by T6 meds easily. Not so for T-34-3.

                  Majority of players might as well be morons, that is not how you play T-34-2.
                  In that config it just a shit T-44 :( .

                  Also, when the difference in pen is so small, caliber is more of a helper. 122 overmatches much more then 100mm gun.

                • Yes like 100mm gun will overmatch completely 33 mm of armor and partialy up to 50, while 122 will 40,7 / 61 respectively. Its armor of light tanks it does not make any difference you would pen it anyways ffs.
                  T-34-3
                  pros over T-34-2: 20 + armor on frontal hull and + 10 on turret front +5 side hull and rear – thats ALL
                  cons : (I assume using 100mm) worse mobility, camo, dpm, penetration, acc, aim time, gun depression
                  I think thats a lot of drawback and you cant say its equal or even better than T-34-2.
                  While Type59
                  prons: +30 frontal hull +35 side armor + 20 turret front armor +10 side turret armor, higher maximum speed, better gun depression,
                  neutral :same aim time, same accuracy,
                  cons: 1725 dpm (1765 dpm for T-34-2), a bit worse mobility
                  Where is a drawback? Type just got so many things better and loosing only 40hp of dpm what is ridiculous and a bit mobility while having better maximum speed.
                  I dont know what esle to tell you because I have a feeling even APE would agree now.

                • Ohhh mate…
                  Forgot the Foch and Foch 155′s side?
                  Forgot the Object 430 has 40mm plates?
                  Forgot some tank’s turret roofs?

                  Seems so :) :)

                  No, do not assume 100mm gun. Assume 122mm gun. That is the Chinese theme, because if you are not, then compare T-44 to T-34-2.
                  T-44 >>>>>>>>>> T-34-2 with 100mm gun
                  To be fair though, T-34-2 is a tank that needs buffs. Badly.

                • Well it needs to buff maybe 122 mm but not 100mm.
                  I assume gun which is better for that tank.
                  T-44 has inferior turret compared to T-34-2 aswell T-44 has 175 penetration compared to 181.

                • Mate.
                  Go play T-34-2
                  Then play LB-1.

                  LB-1 is MUCH better. Big deal of 6 more penetration, RoF, accuracy, aim time and SOFT stats make the LB-1 MUCH better.

                • Xidex, this person isn’t worth your time. The T-44 turret is trash, it is trivial for 225+ pen guns to penetrate it. The T-34-2 turret, by comparison, is much harder to penetrate–at least they have to aim.

  10. If they simply make this bloom small and it feel like a T54 it will be amazing. Yes aim time seems long but let me tell you the T54 is a laser beam with its soft stats like its Hull/Turret traverse numbers and its Aimtime could be 4 secs and still snap shot things.

    T59 will have armor advantage but TBH anything tless than T54 armor is unreliable anyways and almost always uses angles to bounce.

    If this has tons more speed than T59. A turret like a T59 and better gun handling this will be amazing.

    Also if they make it worth using GOld shells expect people to use 50/50 Gold loads like the IS6 does and then its OP

    • If they would make it as you just did. It would be next OP-59. For me devs did great work balancing this vehicle and it fits T8 premium tank role JUST fine.
      OP-59 is a tank which needs nerf, not like you’re saying to buff others. Check my upper post to see how things actually are.

  11. The Type59 isn’t OP at all (it used to be), it has some armor that can troll newbies and good turret armor but if you never experienced the poor gun handling, bad accuracy combined with low ammo count and sluggish acceleration, don’t even bother to tell others just how OP it is. I got over 1k games in it so i got so used to the limitations of this tank so i know what i can and cannot do. The gun depression is the best, it was before the Chinese line was introduced so people think it has shit gun depression :D . Also the STA-1, Indien-Panzer, Panther II all have guns that can pen the Type59 with no problems. The real issue is that newbies start being clueless around this armor, its not a Tiger I you can auto-pen; oh noes what to do now better not think and loads apcr that will bounce of an angled surface even more…. now lets call him a cheater. I let you on in a little secret, like most other tank the front is full of potential weakspots.

    • This is correct. Only newbs cannot fight T59`s. And only Pros/Greats can use it well still.

      STA-1 and me will eat a T59 alive everytime. I love seeing T59`s as 8/10 guys cant drive them.

      They are an easy tank to do ok in, but very hard tank to be amazing in, there is a reason why you only need 1600 DPG to be purple in it.

      All in all armor is used by less skilled players and so means less.

      Camo+Pen+Gunhandling+speed trump armor everytime in game now.

    • “if you never experienced the poor gun handling, bad accuracy combined with low ammo count and sluggish acceleration, don’t even bother to tell others just how OP it is” – I have experienced it and it is still OP for T8 premium tank with pref. MM
      “The gun depression is the best, it was before the Chinese line was introduced so people think it has shit gun depression :D” – the gun depression is unhistorically buffed and it should be 5 degrees.
      “Also the STA-1, Indien-Panzer, Panther II all have guns that can pen the Type59 with no problems” – they can pen any T8 medium into UFP but it does not mean Type59 is average. Compare armor of Type59 to others not armor to guns FFS.
      “The real issue is that newbies start being clueless around this armor” – they are clueless because thanks to unreal -7 degrees of gun depression and 100 armor is UFP autobounce for anything under 185mm and upper part of UFP even 195mm and frontal plate (UFP+LFP) HAS NO WEAKSPOT (no mashinegun or drivers hatch)
      So please man get your “facts” sorted.

      • Many tanks dont have their real gun depression :)
        T32 Us heavy had -5.
        T-62A Tier 10 Soviet medium had -7 (with the 100mm gun)

        Whilst a nerf to -5 wont really matter too much on Type 59, it must come with gun handling buffs

        • It would matter.
          I wont check T32 or T-62A, lets say your data are correct however Type 59 = WZ-120. Source wiki. Funnily enough ingame WZ-120 with stock turret and Type 59 100mm gun got -5 depresion while Type59 got 7. Surprise?
          How am I supossed to tell you that Type 59 got armoring of T9 medium tank while having -2 gun depresion even after that. Accept that it is a fact. Enjoy Type59 as its now OP.

          • E should i mention the kv1s with -8 depresion(for balancing reasons ofc)??? :P
            Type 59 used to be russian so it was blessed from Russia friendly a bit and once the chinese got into the game it was forgoten to take the bless away

            • Type 59 armor is not hight end T8 armor or whatever you are talking about LOL . Its T9 tank amor and with that gun depression it makes it OP for T8 PREM. vehicle. I repeat its premium vehicle having armor tier 9 regular tank.
              Again just for you “stock vehicle < premium < elite"

              • Tier 9 Medium tank T-54 = 120mm at 60 degrees. That is good armor.

                WZ-120 has 100mm at 60 degrees. That is somewhat bad armor.

                WarGaming, stopped making prems noticeably worse then normal tanks. Now they are as/slighty less good thne normal tanks.

                • But that is not a case of Type59 being slightly less good. Its is even better oh come on.

                • better then what? The only tanks that it can beat are T-44 and T-34-2. One is in need of a pen buff, the other is just bad.

                  It is most definitely not better.

                • http://www.noobmeter.com/tankStats/

                  According to this, the global average winrate for said premium tank is 53.1%. This average includes all Type 59 players, half of which *must* be tomatoes for the 60,000 game unicums to exist. It has the highest averaged OP rating. It has a higher average winrate of all tier 8 medium tanks, bar the newest two, the STA-1 and Object 416.

                  If it can only ‘beat’ two medium tanks, then, why is its winrate so high? The T-34-2 is one of the rarest tanks to see, with a low number of recent battles and second to lowest total battles. The T-44 is much more played, but can only account for the smallest fraction of the play the Type 59 has seen.

  12. I’m still going to get it. Been wanting a tank like this forever but am just too lazy for the ridiculous grinds. I just hope the mobility “feels” good,otherwise I wouldn’t stress so much about those other statics.

  13. Good luck bad tank.

    I really prefer a lot more see meds in other lines… to have a copy paste tank inferior to other prem tier 8…

    WG is interested in sell more “types” but they are not types… is like “buy this, is the close way to have a type”.

    Even now Type59 is average as premium add inferior tanks is not a great deal, maybe the problem is more in gun but is a problem now with tier 8 meds i think they need a new gun to play as mediums trading damage by pen i think in regular meds tier 8 between the 190-225 pen value and premium under 190 and lower ROF, many times meds tier 8 are more heavy scouts but without the lights value (and you have WZ serie with superb guns… wait see the USA lights) other solution could be reduce tier 8 meds MM to 9.

    In the end is a good tank for collectors but nothing more apart the use as crew trainer but maybe Matilda here is cheaper and in good hands offer better options in training.

    • Its a very good balanced T8 premium tank, let Devs nerf Type59 and you will look on it other way. (see my other posts here so I dont have to repeat facts.)

      • If the mobility or bad D10T soft stats are buffed up just a little, this will be a perfect ‘premium’ tank: not invulnerable, enough to do well in as a newbie, to have fun in as a pro, and to have credits for all.

        Otherwise, I don’t see it doing too well. 17 hp/ton is good, but, not enough. 20 would be too powerful–it would replace the T-44. I would say, 0.8/0.9/1.7 terrain resistance. 0.9/1/1.8, at the very least.

  14. “Unlike other statistics, armor is probably not very likely to change.”

    Except the Type 59 will have a much less reliable turret after it has been made HD.

    • If you’ve been following FTR latetly then you know WG is not decided what to do with Type59 armor when it goes HD. Because the obvious shitstorm following. I think it’s safe to say they wont dare touch it when it goes HD. Armor will remain the same, not nerfed.

      • If shitstorm appear it will be caused only by kids who just love its toy. Every not OP-59 (type59) biased player with brain will tell you OP-59 is OP for T8 prem. vehicle. Still its not being sold anymore and I would like to see guys who would just sell it because of armor nerf (which is really needed along with gun depression nerf to 5 degrees)

          • Having T9 armor (WZ- 120 = Type 59) why? because Wz-120 is codename for Type59. OMG get it now. It should be nerfed no matter what.

            • I KNOW IT .

              I know more about these tanks then you.
              I am just telling you that it STILL is not OP.
              Tier 9 WZ 120 has weak hull armor. Type 59 has good (not OP) hull armor.

              • Yes you can know more than me I am ok with that.
                So WZ got weak hull and Type has good? isnt it because WZ got proper armor for T9 while Type59 shares same one on T8 even with preff. MM?
                Try to think a bit about what are you saying.
                But I dont think you will because of your tunnel-vision

                • WZ has weak tier 9 hull armor…

                  You want Type 59 to not have preferential MM? Neither do I, it is as/almost as good as a normal tank.
                  Tier 10 games = MORE MONEY for type 59′s . Its a buff as far as I am concenred. I am FOR THAT.

                  I AM AGAINST calling it OP. FOR giving it tier 10 MM and DONT CARE on -5 gun depression as long as its gun gets buffed.

                • Well thats what I have to agree with you. If they would remove preff MM it would be just fine then.

                • Type used to be OP. Before the powercreep happened. Now it’s just mediocre prem tank. It makes nice cash and that’s pretty much it.

  15. Just as a side note on the “inferior armor” part.
    Yes currently it is worse. But WG has stated a couple of times, that during the model overhaul all tanks will recieve more realistic armor ‘layers’ and no more homogenous armor ‘chunks’ as we have now. Especially for the two turrets here we will see them being virtually the same sooner or later.

    • I prefer my Pershing entirely over my Type 59. The gun handling just puts it leagues ahead of the Type.

      • Type 59 aint what it use to be. Any tier 8 can kill it with a bit of gold rounds. The mobiltity nerf is what really ruied it

  16. The most important part:

    -5 vs -7 degrees gun depression..
    nothing more to say..

    if u got a tank with bad gun depression.. it has to much better in mobility aspects…