T-54 Model 1945 versus Type 59

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Hello everyone,

today, we are going to have a look at the characteristics of the T-54 Model 1945 (as based on the book that Wargaming uses for reference). Should be an interesting comparison.

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Now, what do we know about this upcoming premium tank from Wargaming itself:

- it will be slow, but heavily armored
- it will resemble Super Pershing in the gameplay more than Type 59
- developers stated they do not want another Type 59

Now, the book I am referring to is “Отечественные бронированные машины, том 2 1941-1945″ (Domestic armored vehicles, part 2 1941-1945) by A.G.Solyankin. Let’s have a look at it and compare it to the famous Type 59. Looking at the comparison table in the book, it’s possible to notice that this vehicle is somewhat different from all the other T-54 versions and clones (usually not in a good way, the prototype still had some pretty serious issues, that got reworked only in later versions). It’s not that heavy (35,5 tons, compared to the ingame weight of the elite T-54 (34,68 tons) or Type 59 (35,72 tons)). The general dimensions of the vehicle are roughly the same as well – it’s however worth noting that this tank is lowerest than other T-54 versions (2275mm, compared to 2400mm of later versions), it however also has lower clearance (400mm, compared to later 425-450mm), hinting at poorer terrain passability (we’ll get to that later). It’s a bit shorter and bit narrower than the later versions as well. This does not influence the gameplay directly, but for example the height of the turret has some nasty side-effects, as we’ll see later.

Armor

Now, from the previous Wargaming statements, we know that the armor will be this vehicle’s strong suit. Or… will it? For starters, let’s have a look at Type 59 first, so we have something to compare it with.

UFP: 100mm (60 degrees) – 200mm EFF
LFP: 100mm (55 degrees) – 175mm EFF
Sides: 80mm
Turret front: 200mm
Turret sides: 130mm (above, 194mm EFF), 168mm lower part

Those are the important numbers, the frontal sector after all is the strongpoint of the T-54 clones. And now, let’s have a look at the T-54 Model 1945 (the schematic is not a part of the book as far as we know).

image

The book mentioned above notes the following numbers

UFP: 120mm (60 degrees) – 240mm EFF
LFP: 120mm (45 degrees) – 170mm EFF

Notice that the upper frontal plate of the vehicle will be practically impenetrable, but the lower frontal plate, despite its thickness of 120mm actually is not THAT tough – the reason for that is that unlike later T-54 models, where the LFP angle was 55 degrees, it is only 45 degrees here. Thus, the LFP can be considered a “weakpoint” (if something like that can be said over a 170mm thick part of armor)

Sides: 90mm (here, those 90 extra milimeters might actually help). The turret is a more problematic, because the armor schematic above does NOT correspond to the data in the table from the book I am using (and Wargaming uses). I will thus be using the numbers from the book and not from the schematic.

Turret front: 180mm
Turret sides: 90-150mm (at 20 degrees – 96 to 160mm)

As you can see, the turret is actually not as heavily armored as the one of Type 59 (and also has worse angles), but from the front, it will still likely be quite hard to penetrate (note the large mantlet). What might be a problem is the commander’s cupola, that is 90mm thick (compared to Type 59′s 130mm), so that’s going to be nasty, but for an average player, who shoots the vehicle in the hull, this will probably hardly matter (after all, Super Pershing’s copula is even thinner). Compared to the Super Pershing armor, the T-54 Model 1945 seems inferior, especially due to the massive spaced armor plates, that do all kinds of nasty stuff to shells in the game. In total, the armor (due to the LFP weakspots and the turret) seems inferior to both the Super Pershing and the Type 59, but we’ll have to wait and see, how an average player will deal with this tank. Certainly it will not be the easiest to destroy.

Gun

Here, it’s simple. The vehicle is practically certain to recieve a non-stabilized version of the D-10T gun – a modified model, called the D-10T-K, which however has identical characteristics to the classic D-10T (model 1945). How that looks we can see in the T-54′s stock gun: 175/235 PEN, 250 DAM, 0.39 ACC, 0.29 AIM. Now, keep in mind that the AIM, ACC and to some extent even PEN parameters are actually balance parameters (in real life, D-10T had better penetration than it has in the game), so in the end, these parameters can (and probably will) be modified somehow (and I am not even talking about the DPM), but one thing is clear – do not expect this tank to be a sniper. The gun however has one very nasty surprise – it’s historical gun depression was -3/+17. Yep, -3, sounds fun, doesn’t it? Considering that this would be practically unplayable (especially for a medium), it’s likely this parameter will be buffed to -5 or so, but do not expect to be using hills to peek-a-boom (in fact, given the pronounced LFP weakspot, doing that would be a very bad idea overall). The historical rate of fire was also lower than that of the later versions (5-6 RPM, later 7-8 RPM), but the DPM is a balance parameter. Overall, the firepower of this vehicle (given the poor depression compared to the Super Pershing and Type 59′s superior penetration) has the potential to be the worst of the three, but we’ll see how Wargaming deals with that.

Mobility

Here, comparing anything is pure speculation, but it’s safe to say that the mobility of this vehicle will be inferior to the Type 59. Both vehicles are roughly of the same weight, both are powered by a 520hp engine (in T-54 1945 case, it’s V-2-44 diesel), but the historical maximum speed of the T-54 Model 1945 was only 43,5 km/h (Type 59: 56 km/h, Super Pershing: 40,2 km/h) and it used the inferior old type transmission (planetary model came later), similiar to the T-44, so I think we can all see where this is going.

Conclusion

Personally, I think this tank will end up being something between Type 59 and Super Pershing. The armor will be nasty (average pubbie/tomato player will fire at upper frontal plate and will start raging when it bounces), but skilled players will not have too many issues dealin with it using weakspots (just like they do with Super Pershing). Mobility-wise, the tank will likely end up being faster than Super Pershing, but a LOT slower than Type 59 and it might end up being a nice compromise between the two (there is no doubt the vehicle will be inferior in practically every aspect to the Type 59 however). I am actually glad they chose this model, because compared to the other “T-54 clones”, it is clear it offers some distinctive (slower) gameplay, not typical for the Soviet medium tanks.

70 thoughts on “T-54 Model 1945 versus Type 59”

  1. “Yep, -3, sounds fun, doesn’t it? Considering that this would be practically unplayable”

    Chinese meds say hi! (especially T-34-3 as T8 premium med :) )

    • Actually, the Type T-34 says hi…that lovely tank that can’t even aim down enough to shoot a Sherman in the hull when its getting facehugged :p

      • Yeah, except they have one of the best guns of its tier, with high penetration and alpha damage… The poor depression is supposed to balance out the otherwise outstanding gun performance.

        This? This thing has a gun with HORRIBLE soft stats (Considering it’s a premium, I highly doubt it’ll get better than the T-44), low mobility, and weak turret. It desperately needs a depression buff.

        Aside from that, however, I’ll be lining up to buy this pile of metal… Slap on a rammer, stab, and aiming drive, and the horrible aim speed should become bearable.

        • please correct me, but i do not see official stats here….

          so in the end they CAN stick with -3 gundepression (and my personal opinion is that id be awesome! – more variation is a good thing)

          A -3 depression tank is hard-to-master, but because this is a harsh disadvantage they get serious advantages to balance that out (which can be expected in the case of this tank too)!

          So id hope for:
          -3 gundepression + good or great DPM

          • Well, considering the gun shares the same stats across 2 tanks, and a premium’s DPM is usually lower than their counterpart (Lowe vs KT, T34 vs T30 (obviously), Super Pershing vs. Pershing, etc), I HIGHLY doubt they’ll buff the DPM or the soft stats. I mean, aside from depression, it’s usable. Since Type 59 has WAY more depression than what’s expected, it wouldn’t surprise me if they buff it to make more user-friendly.

            Plus, it’s not like it has good depression AND turret armor… COUGH 59 COUGH

    • the real life Type 59 has a -4.5 degree gun depression.
      wargaming gave it -7 depression lol
      my predictions for the communist Russian t-54 M.1945 stronk tank will be -15 degree gun depression, some how lol :)

      • THis is again because the OG 1945 Mod T54 the T59 is based on had 7 degrees. The very same as the T44 and this only changed because they mod`d it. The 122mm had -5 but 100mm had -7 until they made the lower T54 turret.

  2. >because compared to the other “T-54 clones”, it is clear it offers some distinctive (slower) gameplay, not typical for the Soviet medium tanks.<

    Judging from previous comments, seem many prefer "almost identical gameplay" to another Soviet medium tanks.
    Well, this tank will get restricted MM for sure. What do you think about minor buff on mobility?

    • Yeah, I’m not sure if distinctive game play from other soviet mediums is really such a good thing.

      People want a crew trainer for their soviet mediums, so it seems to reason that they’d want one that plays similarly to the tanks they are training the crews for.

      • Tier 8 premiums are all a bit… odd.

        Super Pershing? Heavy in disguise.
        FCM 50 t? Medium in disguise.
        T34? TD in disguise.

        I’m pretty sure people want to make money using something with a bit more mobility, without the horrendous usability of T-34-3.

    • Lol why not want the same thing? The Rus mediums are Railgun tanks that have great armor are x3 as fast as they should be and punch well above others in class.

      T54 has Railgun like accuracy when in full movement or turret traverse and spits out 330mm HEAT rounds every 7 secs. Basically a T54 can truly fight a M48+E50m+FV4202 and have a great chance of winning and if smart bouncing 50%….Lol what other 9 can eat up T10 meds, murder T10 Heavies and Pen T10`s all while dominating its own class? Most times tanks are great at one thing but bad at another, like HUGE PEN but bad gun handling.

      Like a T32 is the best tank there is ingame vs lower tiers aka a bully tank because its armor is enough to bounce lowers also its gun can pen and so it murders smaller tanks. Where as it struggles badly vs 9 and 10`s because it armor is now weak and gun poor.

      T34 is opposite, I do best in my T34 at T10 because it pens most things easily and at T10 things become much slower and rely on armor more. This means 8`s and 9`s will rush you and circle/murder you inbetween shots and its armor is T5 pennable, where as a T34 at t10`S has time to role up shoot and roll back…

      The T54 is great vs lower tiers and bounces all there shots because it has more armor than a IS6, has more DPM than Batchat, is as fast as a Heavy scout. But it has more DPM than a Heavy and has the pen to kill anything from the front…

      Then the 140 and 62a just get better, hi6tting things at 200m everygame in a full 40kmh sprint.

      WHy not want Hovercraft/Railgun tech?

  3. all i want is a fast medium with some turret armor(and playable gun), instead WG constantly releases this sort of crap

    • However bad this tank will end up in the game, WG will still get shitloads of $$ because Russian med fans and kiddies, who are waiting for this like forever and will throw their money at the screens in the first day it is implemented.

  5. again a piece of shit… if they want people to buy premium tanks, at least choose some PLAYABLE ones, not crap slow med.

    a med that cant reach 45km/h in a decent time, its not an option.

  6. As it stands now, if the tank gets released like that it’s a no buy for me. Just like the T-34-3 I gave that tank one look saw the -3 gundepression and said no thank you.

    On this one the heavy UFP means nothing if you have an easy to pen LFP and cupola. It’ll work against bad/new players. But good players will easily deal with it. It’s the same with the super pershing realy. Once you realy know the weakspots on that tank it’s easily disposed off. The 175 pen is mediocre even if it gets preferential matchmaking. It’s fine against T6-T7, ok vs T8 but T9 is quite problematic just like it is on the IS-6 and 112. You can argue “but a medium needs to flank” well if it’s as fast as the SP… yeah…

    Sometimes to me it feels like this one and the T-34-3 are tossed in the game to get the money of the uninformed players who think they’ll be buying “the new type 59″

  7. SS, No such word as Lowerest.

    The correct word is Lowest.

    Lower is the act of lowering, Lowest is the achievement. Therefore one can’t have the achievement in the middle of the act.

    Much like Further, one can’t go Furtherest. One goes Further or Furthest.

  8. this tank sounds a bigger fail than t 34 3, and nobody wants another super pershing!
    and if they put a price tag of 11000 gold on it they are clearly not thinking straight!
    if you’d really want to protest on this, you will not buy it!

  9. if it can reach 40kph with satisfactory acceleration
    gets a gun depression buff
    doesn’t look ugly

    then…….just then i might consider

  10. I really don’t get WG. A lot of people would actually pay them for a fast, fun medium premium tank.

    But they adamantly refuse and develop more and more crap, slow, boring, pointless “mediums” with armor, only without the armor (170mm effective LFP = might as well be zero, all tier 8-9 tanks autopen it).

    Nobody wants to play that **** anymore, WG. I didn’t want Super Pershit for free, because a puny tank with a puny gun and “armor” that’s a matter of pointing at the obvious & massive weakspots is a joke.

  11. This will probably sell like hot cakes, as soviet med tree is desperatly lacking decent premtanks. It doesn’t really matter if it’s good or average (but we’ll see after the supertest), it’s still a tier 8 and there isn’t any real alternative.

  12. “and it used the inferior old type transmission (planetary model came later), similiar to the T-44, so I think we can all see where this is going.”

    old =! bad

    Same weight as Type 59, and the Type 59 is not slow.
    Same engine as Type, and the Type 59 is not slow.
    Transmission of T-44 and the T-44 is not slow.

    Why does it have to be slow? The low top speed is understandable (old tracks), but acceleration is a direct result of total weight and engine power and should be decent for this tank. The Russians always liked the mobility, they wouldn’t bother developing a inferior tank in that aspect.

    • The problem is that this uses the T-44 suspension, so it will likely get similar terrain resistance values to the T-44, which are fairly poor compared to other Tier 8 mediums. The reason it’s not so bad on the T-44 is because it has such a huge power-to-weight ratio (~20 hp/ton). The T-54 obr. 1945 g. won’t have that luxury, since it only has 14.64 hp/ton. Therefore, it’s going to be a lot more sluggish than either the T-44 or Type 59.

      • T-44 ground resist is 1/1.2/2, compared to Type 59′s 0.9/1/2

        That wouldn’t be too horrible, actually. It would accelerate 10% slower in cities, and 20% less on grassfields. Same acceleration in swamps.

        Super Pershing is a gazillion times slower, so… I would take the T-54 mod.45 with those track stats.

    • Acceleration in this game is a direct result of weight, engine power and ground resistance. They will likely give it worse ground resistance to artificially slow it down.

    • I must insist, type 59 is fast only downhill and has poor acceleration due to nerfs, I own it from the start, so I know that. withou excelent crew (5perks+) is this tank very awful to play.I tried it on test server, pure hell. But still, type 59 is only real T8 medium tank among priemum tanks, I dont consider T-34-3 and SP for medium tanks for obvious reasons.

    • Yeah I dont think its gonna be slow at all like the SPershing, its gonna be slow compared to the T44 and T54 but the Type59 is really slow compared to them as well.

      I think Storm said that because otherwise we would scream OP russian tank.

      Guys the WG staff are not gonna release a Prem that would be there highest seller of all time that is shit…..Just wont happen RU server is to big of a market to piss them off.

  13. As owner of the fail Super Pershing which i still play, cause i earn credits with it, i can only say, mwahahahahahah, lolz, finally all the ppl playing russian OP meds who want to train their crews will have to suffer in the same kind of turd-tank. Hell yeah.

  14. By the way, what’s with the insane troll logic here?

    “- developers stated they do not want another Type 59″

    but they don’t mind another useless Super Pershit at all?

  15. @ SS but you forgot to count in normalization ( i do not know how much is it now , i think 3° or 4° ) after you count it in UPF will be around 214- 220 mm effective armor and LFP 159-162 mm so basically this tank will have armour as KT maybe a bit less , for a medium that is a lot but in the end it will all depend on how fast it will be and how high will ROF will it get

  17. I suspect that it will be a lot harder to pen that lower plate than you make it sound like.
    Sure it’s only 170 mm effective, but that is when fiering at it straight on. Due to the T-54′s low height you will almost always be fiering down at it, increasing the effective thickness significantly.

    If you angle the tank too you add even more effective armor, I have trouble seeing that plate being penned reliably by anything with less than 220 mm pen. Then you also have to consider the size of the target: It’s tiny.

    I can see the turret being an issue though, especially if you try to facehug tall tanks.

  19. As crap as Super Pershing is, it does what it’s intended to do, earns credits and trains crews. It’s also cheap, so go figure that it can’t be competetive. And developers do not want premium tanks to be equally powerfull as regular ones(exluding E25 and other ridiculous exceptions). So, i’m thinking, it will be good enough to support your team and prolly never meet tier 10s, so you can still expect to ding from lower tiers quite often. But don’t expect to win every one on one versus equal tier with high pen gun.

    • You still can load “gold” and pen. Just like with E-25, SU-122-44, Spersh, IS-6 and almost every other premtank actually.
      The increased income on premtanks allows for a reasonable amount of premshell usage, even without premium account. While this sacrifice credit farming, it gives better crew training and stats.

      Also, makes the tanks with limited MM much stronger, then they “should” be.

    • Spershing was a flop and then they nerfed it even more…Lol

      They should make a category for these in between tanks, the US called them Heavy Gun Tanks.

      Also in RL the Spershing was slow like in game but so were tanks like the T54, the real T54 was sluggish as hell.

      Basically T59 ingame is a T54

  21. Did you write lowerest on purpose? Just in case it is a mistake, it should be lowest rather than lowerest.

    • It’s simple – I don’t usually have time for correct proofreading and these mistakes happen by copying one word over the old one, then I decide to write it differently and sometimes I forget I left a part of the old word behind.

    • Nah, the turret is nowhere near as good as 112s. 180mm vs 240mm frontal turret armour is a considerable difference. Still, I’m easer to see what soft stats they put on it, I’ll reserve my judgement until then.

      • So its even better :)

        Plus there is no way WG will make it slow….Look at T62a when we first saw it we were like “Finally a slower Rus tank that isnt op in everyway” Then all the sudden this 580 HP tank was much faster than our 800 HP pattons and we knew, they would never hurt these bread and butter tanks.

        IS3 will never suck
        704 will never suck
        T54 will never suck
        140/62a/T10 med will never suck

        Far to iconic for 90% of there playerbase.

        I guarantee this tank will be the most common tank in game after 6 months
        Like the Lowe and T59 was in opening

  23. When you gone get the ff..out the absolut crap -3 gun depresion,aiming time 5 seconds(not 3,4 I don’t now what clock you youse,realy?),very bad acuracy to most allmost all the tanks and gold ammo.This is what WG shoud do to make this game playable not… amazing team of developers.Grow the ff up dear developers and stop shiting on players with this crap tanks.You are a horror team and all you care its just money.Bring some profesionals there not that ff spoiled kids who doesn’t give a shit about those who make them milionairs.us.You are the most horrible team I ever saw in a game.Go home people and ruin something else,not this game.We are f ..tired of your epic mistakes and ignorance.

  26. “because compared to the other “T-54 clones”, it is clear it offers some distinctive (slower) gameplay, not typical for the Soviet medium tanks.”

    What idiot in there right mind wants to play a SLOW medium tank. The SP blow ass BECAUSE it’s a slow medium tank. I woke up EARLY just to download the patch JUST so I could be the FIRST to get a refund for that hunk of shit. I’ll try it on the test if it’s available but will likely pass on this is its a slow hunk of shit that the numbers show it to be.

  27. All in all this will be a 112 medium version.

    Crappy gun handling, meh lower plate and amazing UFP. 240 is much more than the IS6 for instance.

  28. Biggest problwm that SS didnt talk about was the Mod 1945`s shot trap. Look at the image/schematic see how the turret has a space below it, IN RL this was changed because it was catxching shells

  30. 240 mm of effective frontal armor…90 mm of side armor…medium tank…

    >mfw a premium Russian medium sidescrapes better than a Tiger II.

  31. I don’t get why every time WG propose releasing a reasonable high-tier premium, developers and others make such a big deal about “we hope it won’t be another Type 59″

    Of course it won’t.

    When the Type 59 was releaseed, it saw tier 5 tanks, had much better acceleration and wasn’t penned as often through THAT turret because premium shells cost real gold.

    To top it off, if you wanted a money-making premium you really only had the choice of the Type, the KV-5 (considered pretty bad back in the day) and the Lowe. So two slow as hell tanks or a fun to play medium. Now there are tons of high-tier premium tanks to choose from.

    So a T-44 with a worse gun, thinner turret armour (and worrse angles), lower top speed and potentially worse gun depression is never going to lead to hordes of them roaming the battle field, even if they give it decent acceleration (which is what everyone is crying out for in a high-tier medium prem).