Tipping tanks over – do we really need it?

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Hello everyone,

so, here’s a thought. Yesterday, XZ linked me this War Thunder beta video. No, don’t worry, I won’t bash War Thunder (in fact I find the graphic very, very good and it will take World of Tanks a while to catch up) and yes, I do know this is just closed beta. Just watch it.

 

 

Well as you can see, War Thunder will have flippable tanks. Some time ago, Storm announced that World of Tanks will have this too, which got me thinking: do we REALLY need this one?

It’s obvious War Thunder influenced Wargaming plans more or less – even Storm admitted so. Some things it has good, some thing it has bad, but it does have influence. I am not sure that flippable tanks is something that was War Thunder inspired (I doubt that, since it was first mentioned a long time ago, when the War Thunder tanks were not even announced), but if it was, maybe it wasn’t such a good idea after all. Let’s look at both the advantages and disadvantages of tank flipping.



Advantages

- more “realistic” tank behavior. Although I think this is sort a moot point in a computer game, it’s obvious that in real life things (even tanks) do flip over. Therefore, adding this option will bring the game one step closer towards the realistic movement model. Whether that itself is a good thing however, I have no idea.

Disadvantages

- more noob suicides. This one is obvious. Just like in real life, when you are a bad driver and don’t handle your vehicle properly, you will end up crashing. Right now, we only have noobs jumping off the ledges or getting stuck in holes, but now we will have noobs making flips over terrain obstacles (especially with light and fast tanks). In case you don’t realize it: no, a noob suicide on your team is not a good thing – as funny as it is to see a noob suicide, it weakens your team: even a bad player in light tank can suicide scout, giving you at least a chance to shoot at the spotted enemy, but he can’t do it when he just drove his light tank over a hill at full speed, flipping it on the roof. How many more suicides will this generate? I don’t know. Could be not many, could be a LOT, depending on the tuning of this option. I certainly wouldn’t however want it as easy as it is shown in the video above.

- game harder to learn for newbies. Again, this might not appear as a disadvantage first, but it is. World of Tanks is a F2P model game and therefore it is dependent on the “crowd” and on the attraction of new players. The harder the game is to learn (and having your tank flipped on the roof does not contribute to the game being easy to learn in any way), the less players it will attract and while some self-proclaimed “masters” of this game might consider this a good thing (less “reds”, right?), this point of view is very shortsighted, as it is this crowd of newbies, that also contributes to the game economy and keeps it running.

- more pointless and stupid deaths. Unless there is a “flip me back on tracks” button (like in racing games – and I doubt there will be one, since that would create totally unpredictable tank behavior – you want to shoot a tank on its back and it suddently flips back), getting flipped on your back is the end. There is nothing you can do with it. In best case, you will get destroyed immediately and allowed to leave the game. In absolutely worst case, you will flip over and… well, will have to wait until the battle is over (I really hope that won’t happen). At this moment, unless you get killed outright by ramming or something, there is always the possibility to DO something.

Example: yesterday, I had a battle where I missed a shot with my KV-1S on a Hellcat, so I rammed him at full speed, nearly tipping him over to one side. He got massive damage from the ram and a detrack and since he didn’t repair it, I shot him once I reloaded. But if he actually repaired the tracks, he might have gotten away from me and survived. If the flipping was enabled, he would have flipped on its side/back and he’d be finished. That might sound realistic physics-wise, but it will bring only more frustration into the game.

- more trolls. We will get a special kind of idiots, running around, tipping people over. Now they can just – you know, ram and that’s it. If they can however tip you over, oh boy, some people I know will have a field day. Hellcat camping in a bush? Let’s ram it with an IS and tip him over. This will force Wargaming to implement some sort of teamkill detection, based on who tipped who, which in turn will again be exploited by trolls, looking for ways to break it etc.

Conclusion

No, I think we really don’t need this stuff. For a dubious gain of “more realism”, we will get more frustrating suicides, kills and hopeless situations. And what is your opinion?

PS:

One more thing actually caught my eye in the video:

waffenss

Waffen SS insignia. Nice. Good luck distributing it in Germany.

214 thoughts on “Tipping tanks over – do we really need it?”

  1. There is one more advantage to it that I can see.
    Once properly sorted out, it’s probably going to limit some of the more wonky physics bugs we have, like where tank is about to be tipped, but then suddenly realises it’s not allowed to tip over, and promptly catapults itself into the air, does a spin-kick or what have you.

    • @ “Tipping tanks over – do we really need it?”

      That’s what noob masses want – stronk graphics and f/x (witness about half a dozen “where are the flying turrets” threads on official forums after 8.10 came out), so if players want what’s essentially useless stuff, then that’s what we’re going to get.

      Both flying turrets and tipping tanks over will look good on trailers, so that’s another plus from WG’s point of view.

      • Yeah unfortunately when it comes to gaming, the masses never care about gameplay or depth, all they are about is graphics and in this case oh so “Important” physics of tanks flipping over.

        Of course Wargaming pretty much has to add tank flipping or it becomes yet more ammunition the frothing warthunder fucks will use to talk down to anybody who doesn’t want to play warthunder. (Sorry, I’m not a big fan of warthunder players, they, in my experience, mostly are intrusive and aggressive about trying make you quit any wargaming game and play warthunder instead.)

        • I would not go out of the way too say W.o.T players are any more civil. every game will have its nice friendlies and its terrible jerkoffs. I for one will be split between the two games, as I am incredibly upset how WG handled the Panther and the Tiger in W.o.T. and hope to see it face a more historical enemy in Warthunder. But I find the garage battles of WT very disorienting and rather prefer one tank per person.

        • “warthunder players, they, in my experience, mostly are intrusive and aggressive about trying make you quit any wargaming game and play warthunder instead.”
          a +1 for you, sir.

          • We don’t need flipping tanks for the same reason we don’t need collapsing bridges, it’s a useless one-time funny thing that only messes with map design.

            As for the Warthunderers attitude to WG, I will just link this actual post made by an actual forum dweller.

            http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/6661/5m81.jpg

            Read the end closely.

            • Even though i am playing much much more wot(9,5k battles) than war thunder(400 battles or so) i strongly believe that war thunder does have better graphics, physics and engine (i can actually score way higher fps score with much clearer graphics) . And thats what you can really compare between them because the one is an arcade tank game and the other a realistic tank(planes,ships) sim.So it should be made as realistic as possible ,while wot doesnt need all this stuff .

              Well of course there are trolls that will utilize those stuff in wot but a troll will ram you anyways or push you off a cliff even if he cant flip you or something(happens a lot in wot anyways ) so whats the real difference?. If wot players dont like it they should just ask for it not to happen.

              Since war thunder wants to go as realistic as possible for them ,why shouldn’t they? Thats the exact reason the game is a realistic game because stuff like that can happen in RL.

              • You know, this thread of comment has a particular topic of discussion at hand, hey ?

                • well yes if you could read you see that i am saying why you dont need all these at wot and why you need them at WT ? Giving some more ideas for discussion never hurt anyone but the idiots. :D

                  Oh ,i see i should only keep to your sayings.. sorry bro. so sad… lol.

              • I’ve not been able to switch to 3rd person IRL, how do you do it? How many tanks and aircraft use a mouse? How many tanks and aircraft have a joystick/ control column?

                Life doesn’t have respawn.

                • Of course, what you say is right but no game can reach full realism anyway .
                  The thing here is that WT is trying to reach ” full realism” from a scope of physics , atmosphere and controls with the available means.

          • i’ve had enough with WT fanboys declaring WT’s faults as “they’re still new to this”, and then bringing up WG’s fault and as if they’re saying “a bug is still a bug, even though it was a year ago”.
            the thing is, even WT is learning at WG’s faults, so if you’re saying WG have worse problems a year ago which WT doesn’t, it’s because they know it from other’s experience.
            you, WT fanboys with criticism against WG are bringing up WT as an excuse to tear down WG to pieces since you don’t like how they used their authorities as the sole decent online tank game
            i’d like to point out : IF THERE’S NO WG THERE WILL BE NO WT IN DISTANT FUTURE. SO STOP BLAMING WG FOR EVERY LITTLE THINGS THEY’VE DONE WRONG
            i’m no WoT fanboy, i’m no WT hater, i’m WT fanboy hater.

  2. Two questions,
    Does a tank really flip over that fast in reallity?? It looks like its a buldozer wich can pick it up on a scoop and throw it in the air, not like a tank ramming.

    And that KV, isnt his turret turning réally fast in the end :P? (2:12)

    • And I don’t know if I still want it, after hearing your arguments. It looks cool. But again, it will be harder for light tanks to driver over the landscape at high speed.

    • No, they’re plenty capable of flipping over, but not as easily as in this movie. WT needs to drastically increase the “weight” of their tanks.

      • And they also need to somehow implement collision damage, I can hardly see how a T-34 could ram a KV-1′s side and get away…

      • could flip? i think it did flip it cause nothing will stop the mighty T34 the best tank of mother russia :)

    • Exactly my question. Those tanks look like they are made of some Polystyrene or other light material. Anyway this sure also looks really bad. I would like to see tanks flipping over, but without changing current physics. What i mean is tanks should only flip over when currently they go to almost 70 or 80 degrees, but making them tilt more easy than right now, i totally disagree.

      Also looking at this video, a tank is on its turret, and hull remain still when he try to turn its turret and turret turns..wtf?? So ground does not constrain its movement, but hull is miracly still while hanging in air??

      • they have said numerous times that the tanks are not correct weight, and that they are a lot lighter now than they will be at release… so flipping will be a lot harder., unless the target tank is on an angle anyway,

        an 80 ton tank ramming a 40 ton tank is unlikely to flip it over, more likely to damage both tanks and ram the target a few metres sideways..

        possibly flip a 20 ton tank, but would need an obstacle or slope to assist in the “kicker” to start it flipping rather than sliding… once on its way over, then heavy objects will have massive kinetic energy allowing them to continue flipping…

        as for the overall argument.. so long as its not too easy to flip someone, but still possible then fine…

        as for the “more trolls” argument… don’t look at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • As far as I know the equivalent of the “Tank Flight Model” aren’t even close to being what they should be, they haven’t even finished anywhere near all the plane FMs yet, so the tonks seem to have placeholder “Driving models”? of a wet bag or something.

      • Well, I don’t think the KV-2 is a good example of a stable tank to begin with.

  4. Erm, is it just me or do the tanks that are getting flipped over seem they weigh nothing and are like inflatable air tanks?

    • It’s early beta, in WoT terms:
      this is a year or more before the Type 59 flood,
      this is from the time when there was just the KV in tier 5
      long before anyone even whined about medium tank lines ending in 9th tier
      even sooner than that, this is the stage where there were no French tanks
      The times, were you can meet a Maus in your tier 2 or 3 (don’t really remember which one, it was long ago)

      if I am sure about one thing, it’s the tweaking Gaijin provides, constant rework, actually giving a shit about their customers. Trust me, this will all be fixed ice ages before Ground Forces go global.

      • If the air-department is anything to go by.

        The Beaufighter is not fixed. The YeR-2 is not fixed. MM is getting unfixed. Bombing is worse than ever.

        I don’t want to have to trust random strangers I see on blogs. I don’t trust WG to fix issues, I’m happy when they do, but I don’t. Gaijin also has a record of ignoring key issues and blatant cases of either unbalance of terrible design, so I don’t trust them either.

        I don’t want to see promises, I want to see actual progress.

  6. Well I agree that all those disadvantage you point out is true and would likely to happen if this were introduced into WoT

    But all the cheap and stupid suicide laugh would be kind of worth it imo.

  7. I’m pretty sure tanks don’t flip so easily, WT. Fix that ASAP if you want to be taken seriously.

  8. Things happens in a game, that is still in early status
    I think WoT was buggy when it was in closed beta, it is still buggy
    But in my opinion both game is good, becouse:
    WoT is an action tank game, with ok, graphics (graphics is not everything, but as you said, wg is on at HD graphics)
    War Thunder is an action/war simulator game with good graphics

    • how can WT be good game when its buggy ? you are that sort of ppl who look at graphics and dont care about anything else? :)

        • exactly
          what if we don’t care about the graphics?
          one game is about hp demage, but it can be understood easily
          other game is about module demage, and it is a bit harder to understood
          so?
          anyway, if i want action—->wot
          if i want a nearly real tank battle—->wt
          simple, isn’t it?

            • It seems, nobody told you that War Thunder hase more than one gamemode.
              WoT has only arcade.
              WT has Arcade, which is currently the only gamemode in CBT
              and the WT GF will also have, like the planes, a realistic gamemode with more realistic physics and an overall more realistic approach.
              All that means, Dafydd is right when he says
              ” if i want action—->wot
              if i want a nearly real tank battle—->wt”

              • What are you talking about Wot has a lot of game modes Tank Company, Team Battle, Team Training, and Historical Battles coming soon

                • And you don’t understand.
                  All these gamemodes (team, company, clan wars and probably also historical) are still arcade. Tanks behave in all gamemodes the same.
                  In WT is that different. Thats what i’m talking about.

              • thank you Typhus, at least somebody understand my opinion :)
                and actually wot game mechanics is the same at every game TYPE (i say again, game type), but i hope WG make more gameMODE
                game mode means, when your plane/tank/ship behave other than the default mode

  9. I believe the SS insignia to be an altered Decal that this person tweaked in size and rotated. Good find. Seen a few that try (there is for instance an eightball that some put 2 together, think that was punished)

    Wonder which decal it is. And on topic wt is more demanding than wot to play, so the noobs will (i am 100% sure), leave this game alone. I don’t think tipping of tanks will be a videly used thing tbh, the maps and tanks are slow as it is, and it feels more like a bug atm than a feature. But hey, thats just me.

      • Red Orchestra became famous because it was hardcore.
        Same goes here, WT even in arcade is much harder than WoT (no hp pool to save you, you don’t magically disappear behind bush, and full manual aiming, no automatic distance adjusting).

        • >no hp pool to save you

          Oooooooh really? God-mode stug? Surviving multiple pentrating hits? Reeeaaaally?

          • If you are dumb enough to aim the at the front transmission on a German tank, you deserve to loose…
            This isn’t WoT where it magically catch fire.
            That thing is +50-100mm steel between you and the crew compartment.
            The tank becomes immobile when the transmission seriously damaged, but at least the crew survives (and that’s why the Germans used front transmission).

            • This isn’t WoT where it magically catch fire.

              Stopped reading there. You know shit about wot mechanics, period. Now stfu&gtfo mr “game mechanics specialist”.

              • Yes, I know game mechanics.
                Your turn.

                Give an answer:
                Why transmission oil catch bright high heat fire in WoT?

                You will give no proper answer, only retard trolling.

                • Because in wot transmission is a part of “engine” module, which has a set chance to catch fire when hit. If you knew wot mechanics you wouldn’t ask such question.

                  There. Feeling dumb now? STFU&GTFO.

                • I know that they made it part of the engine module…
                  I’m writing scripts for my former clanmates for clanwars (my newest autoaim targets ammo rack or engine on the targeted tank, the player can choose which one), I know how garbage the WoT inside…

                  With their so called “historical accuracy” especially makes no sense.
                  Or adding +1 module is too complicated?

                • You asked stupid question which was an obvious sign that you know shit about wot mechanics and now you claim you write intelligent aimbot… I’m just adjusting to your level.

                • It was a legit question, and still it is.
                  You know it.

                  Writing aimbot for WoT isn’t hard. Main problem is the mathematical formula, the programming is done in actionscript, which is very easy.
                  Obviously I stole the idea from others (WoT WarPack).

                • And why standard chair has only four legs?

                  Because it was designed like that.

                  Wg decided that – for whatever reason – transmission is going to be part of “engine” module. And here it is, burning you king tigers and stuff.

                  I have enough of this, y’know?

                  OK here goes:
                  Q:”Why transmission oil catch bright high heat fire in WoT?”
                  SerB: “Ask engineer Hermann”

    • It is too early to predict whether WT:GF will be noob-friendly or not. In normal (aerial) War Thunder most players play in Arcade Battles, which are not demanding (I see lot of noobs flying in lower eras). If they didn’t leave planes, why they should leave alone tanks (which are easier because you do not need 3d awareness).

    • in arcade mode, sure there will be newbies, but in other game modes like historical (now simulator)
      will not be full with noobs
      helps like targeting (where you have to shoot is calculated automaticaly, and same for planes) will not be in in these game modes
      it means that your skills will make you better player, and it won’t be enough that you know witch key is “shoot”

      • Orzel you are the one being ignorant. You realize that shooting a transmission wont make the engine/fuel tanks magically catch fire IRL? He was making a point that WT is more realistic, and that the WoT damage model you know so well and are proud because of it….is utter bullshit and tactically retarded (IRL)!

        • Game = real life ofc.

          Damn, it’s good that germans didn’t have more invincible stugs, or they might’ve won.

          Now go whine about dwarfs, elves and kamaels being unrealistic on lineage 2 forums, shoo!

          • Megafactories: Wargaming.net:

            “Our game is so realistic, we are not simply copying the real world any more.”
            (I don’t how it was actually, I watched the Hungarian version.)

            • Some like that
              i watched hungarian too :D
              btw did you hear the real sound in the show?
              i don’t hear in the game, it is a “nope” for me

  10. Hahahaha, no, thats not a waffen SS icon. That’s two thunderbolt icons made to look like one. Gaijin doesnt have such icons in their game either. They raped the swastika into a generic X, too.

  11. Yeah, they flip over easily in wt but that’s because they are still working on the physics etc.
    Correct me if I am wrong but there are still planes in the game with the default flight handling? Or at least there was a patch or two ago

    I’m all for tank flipping, as long as it isn’t too easy.
    Ram a light (weight wise) tank with a heavy at 50kph and it isn’t going to survive anyway.
    If they implement it well, most rams should only make tanks slide, (they have low centre of mass after all) and you would need to hit it particularly well to flip it.

    As for getting stuck upside down, some racing games tried to solve this by, unless there is an obstacle, giving the vehicle more inertia when upside down, allowing it to roll (pretty) naturally (looking) back on to it’s base. (Gta is pretty good at this – you can get a car on it’s roof, but if it is rolling, it is quite likely to end up on it’s wheels again – especially if the player also starts a turb when wheels down – harder to flip ebd over end).

    In the end, I would expect the number of deaths this causes to be low, though still higher than being taken out by flying turrets.

    • The thing is, tanks are (of course) capable of rolling over, but only over obstacles. A tank can’t ram a tank and just flip it over like here – tanks have (as you already said) very low centres of gravity.
      Probably the biggest thing you could achieve tank vs tank IRL would be tipping it onto one side, but only if it’s a high vehicle. So in WoT, the only vehicle that could be done to would be the SU-100Y, it’s the only thing high enough. And even then you’d just topple it to one side and it would lay there (still lame).

  12. As mentioned WT IS STILL A BETA, judging or making arguments based on this game is nearly pointless.
    It’s common known for those who follow the betatest that tanks in Ground Forces bevbehave too light – resulting in this easy tipping.
    The biggest problem in WoT Would really be the light tanks and maybe tanks sliding down a hill sidewards but I think flipping campers or enemy tanks won’t be as easy, remember most of the tanks do not have got the “Bulldozer shaped flipping front” like the T-34 has at all. Most of the nearly flipping colissions in WoT happen if light tanks or light mediums crash into another light tank at very high speed (65+ kph) and this is mostly also resulting in a rammkill or a selfkill cause you gliched yourslf underneath the enemy, so in my opinion a tank killed by flipping will be an rare event and won’t effect the game very much – just like ammorack oneshots – bad if it happens, but when does it happen…

      • Because WoWP’s game mechanics were (and still are) complete dogshit. The best you can come up with to complain about WT GF is physics issues, which are much easier to fix than changing core gameplay mechanics.

        • “Because WoWP’s game mechanics were (and still are) complete dogshit.”

          Speak for yourself, I liked it (played like 20-50 matches during OB).

        • I bet that SS will stop posting about wt 2 hours after it’s fanbois stop their retarded crusade. Which means – never.

        • What? What kind of response is that?

          SS: “Honestly, I don’t care much. I just think this shouldn’t appear in WoT.”

          Nyejo: “Then you should stop posting about wt mate.”

          He presents his take on flippable tank physics, and you tell him to stop posting about War Thunder? How about you pipe down and let the man do as he wishes with his blog instead of pretending to know what’s best for him?

      • I think that its too soon to talk about it, when you even didn’t see any of the WoT examples, how they want to implement it. And talking about it based on early testing version of WT, i don’t think thats even worth it. We should wait for first real WoT implementation plans/videos and then discuss if its good or bad feature.

  15. Those collisions looks very unrealistic. It looks like he is flipping paperboard box not a 30 ton tank.
    And T-34 flipping KV ?? Yeah, right ….

  16. If you can do this in the same way in wot when you lift the enemy you will get damage to :P

    • apparently its not actually the Waffen SS insignia, one of the commentors on that video says “No, ϟϟ definitely means “Sovietische Soldaten” so its russian…” in regards to the decal

        • derp, only just noticed its a terrible joke, I don’t understand russian and was just skimming it and took it at face value, stupid of me

  18. those tanks tip too easily, in wot you can get one in such angle if you ram him at high speed, not just “walk” into it!

  20. I imagine WoT to have more realistic approach to flipping and i’d still like to see it ingame.
    1. We have already implemented “smashing” mechanics, when you sit on another tank it gets constant damage, similar to fire damage (well, you both get damage actually :P ). So, common sense says that flipping will be similar, you live like 5seconds after your turret roof hits the ground.
    2. It’s no-flipping that is counterintuitive. It took me long to get used to it when sliding steep downhills. So, it will be noob-friendly. And it won’t be that common occurance, noobs have many other ways to die anyway.
    3. I want to be able to do corkscrew spins and other tricks :P , we already talked about that some time ago. ELC drivers will be happy.

    • Also don’t forget when you slide down and get stuck on one track now you will be able to flip over and after you got destroyed you can leave the battle. You can’t do much when you are stuck on one track…

  22. SS, please stop posting about game what u nothing know about it.
    Yeah i know it’s your blog, but.,. it just show your ignorance. that’s is bug, and it going to be fixed.

    About that SS insignia… oh you didin’t played WT much… so in WT you can add some decays(anywhere you want) to your plane. This is not SS insignia, this is two lighting…

    • No bud! You are wrong. It’s regular SS insignia. If it was just “lightning” they should have sharp edges below…

      • No bud?! just go to the planes and do it yourself stop talking trash -_- Please IF you would look closely you can see the rest of the lighning on the tank itself. dont talk about things you dont understand.

      • ‘facepalm’

        it’s clipped because the turret stops you derp, if you look closely you can see the bottom of the lighting emblem on the hull.

        i also don’t see how this will be a problem in Germany to be honest, I’ve seen custom SS emblems in other games, and they (the games) weren’t banned because the player made them.

        PS: war thunder is full of ‘for Stalin’

        • The publication of that image, in *almost* any form, is an offence under Scetion 86(a) of the German Criminal Code, punishable by up to 3 years in prison and unlimited fines. If you think they would not pursue you for this, you are wrong. They are rabidly aggressive when it comes to the prosecution of anything related to the symbology of “Unconstitutional Organisations.”

          • If you look at it carefully enough… you can see the rear chevron end of the lightening strike on the side-rear of the tank, with a “missing” bit in mid-air between the hull and the turret..

            This is not SS, but someone playing about with the decals to try it…

            There is also some snake (or possibly a wierd dragon thing) type logo (in yellow IIRC) that can be doubled up to make SS…

            it’s also been possible to draw knobs and boobs on them with the correct application of 4 decals in certain sections of some planes.. that does not make it a porn game…

  23. War Thunder is in very early closed beta stage, so physics will be completely different when it reaches OB. If you ask me, I see no reason to be afraid. It will look completely different when they tweak it.

  24. What will happen with overtipped tanks? Catch fire and explode? (like in GTA series? :)

  25. Well, judging from all those videos I’ve seen so far War Thunder seems like a regular hurr-durr shooter for BF/CoD playerbase, the only things missing are some kind of a insta-kill melee attack, integrated “killing spree!” hardcore voice, the tank wreck that went missing was also funny…

    => so far it looks like a fail

  26. WT Ground Forces: CLOSED BETA=NotFinalProduct
    SS Insignia on WT Tank: 2 lightning symbols rescaled and placed onto the tank, no special decal, still if stuff like this gets reported the ppl with the insignia on the tank loses his account…in a f2p game.

    • WoWp… was CBT, and was bashed by WT fanboys that time, too…

      Sorry, but argument about closed beta sounds like hypocrisy of WT fanboys to me…

  27. KV-1 is 45 tonnes and T-34 is 26.5 tonnes (approximately) T-34 rams KV-1 and KV goes upside down!!!

    I think Gaijin must employ physics teachers…And i saw that T-34 didnt get any damage from all ramming movements? Is it right?!!!

    Plus,

    Silent, i’m agree with you…We will get lots of trolls who will try this gameplay way!

    For SS insignia;

    Gaijin, maybe you must try SD insignias too!!!…Especially for Ukraine, Poland marketS!!!!! NOOBS!!!

  28. i think its easy, while WOT removed the nazi emblems and simbols, but kept the comunism ones, gaijin choosed to keep both…. my opinion? keep both or remove both; what WG did is SHIT and hypocrite

  29. SS, why so Jelly?

    you should join today twitch channel – they have live steaming + tank pack give away, maybe you will get access and test it for yourself…. believe me seeing and playing is a different experience here and the game mechanics is better every week patch.

    http://www.twitch.tv/warthunder

    one thing can be said objectively, WT programmers are way, way better with higher efficiency and quality then WG potatos Belorussian farmers morons.

  30. Looks like in wt tanks don’t have their weight implemented, and that makes problem. Their tanks feel like made of cartoon, u even don’t need high speed to tip enemy while ramming. tanks are pushing each other like on ice. In wot ramming is done much better, it won’t be so easy to tip enemies.

  31. Personally I still want it.It would make those ramming moments even more enjoyable and I don`t think it would affect the game play in any negative way.Now,with the massive arty nerf,light tanks role isn`t that important at all,especially on some maps and if a noob want`s to go full speed from the top of a hill it doesen`t matter if he can flip over or not.The only thing that would really bother me would be if tanks would flip over when they drift at very high speeds,apart from that it would be a nice addition to the game lay.

  32. Just another one of these “I dont like WT” Posts, just stop them ok? Simply wait for the open beta then you can judge.
    1. The SS Insignia are just 2 Thunderbolts flipped over, look closley you can see the rest on the tank.
    2.Physics + Tank weight are not final in the game.
    3. Your disadvanteges are mostly “People are Stupid and Assholes” So why should better/good players not enjoy physics?

  35. No offense to ypu, This is your blog and you can say whatever you want to, but Seriously SS, I think I have Enough of these “OMGWTFAIL” post. I can see you try to be balanced, but you clearly are trying to crttize WT for Not Being WOT. Please, play the game first, And WT is not WOT.
    Firstly, this is so call a BETA, not WOT, which is a completed, released game
    Secondly, All weight stuff are NOT implemented yet and therefore it seems sluggish and weird.
    Thirdly, you didnt even play the game. Judge thing with watching videos? Mmm this seems immature for me.

    I respect you SS on your strong oppsition on WG EU and I think you did the right thing, BUT on War Thunder you just seem like too bias. WT is NOT World of Tanks, saying this and this is not suited in a tank game is simply weak arguements. You seems like a WOT fanboy to me, at least judging by the last few blog post and the lack of knoledge of how WT works. If you dont like the game, DONT POST IT. Sorry for being honest, but I really dont like your attitude on WT currently by complaining this and that constantly.

    • He became famous with this blog.

      But!
      Gaijin has much less fails than WarGaming, they have proper non-russian community management, most of the creators speak English, they even have teamspeak meetings with their community.

      That makes his blog obsolete if WT becomes commonly known, reducing his fame…

      But that’s just theory.

      • Gaijin is horrendous…
        Seperate RU dev team working on RU planes, while the EU team does the rest, pumping out planes with no flight or damage models of their own, the worst server-side hit detection I have ever seen, oh, and they intentionally make premium planes godly strong for a while to boost sales and then fix them, saying it was a bug all along.

        WT is technically great, but Gaijin is fucking trash, worse than WG that’s for damn sure.

    • This is why I can’t take people like you seriously, especially obnoxious WT forum lurkers.

      SS comments of WoT fails, it’s all fun and games. WT forumites all laugh at WG and all feel good about being hipster enough to play WT rather than WoT. Than all probably fellate themselves.

      SS comments on dubious WT proceedings (and let’s face it, Gaijin are mafia-esque in some of their actions), and suddenly the WT crowd goes fucking berserk.

  36. I don’t want flipping tanks in wot, it will just make active scouting even harder to do.

    • if it’s done right and somewhat realistic it wouldn’t affect scouting at all…because you are not driving a feather made tank, but a real steel tank and fliping it over a small bump or too fast cornering would be and should be impossible to do….on the other hand why would you slid off the 100m high steep cliff(el halouf cliff) and not lose a single HP? What’s realistic in that?

  38. You can only get 3 things from this video:
    1/ WT is far from complete
    2/ WG need MUCH better and more realistic sounds
    3/ WG is at least half a year behind with graphics

        • >pointing faults in wt gf
          “OMG TIS BETA U NOT PLAYED IT ANYWAYZ TARD!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111″

          >before wot hd is introduced (we only had a few screens at best)
          “OMG TIS SUCKZ MY MAMAS BALLZ WOT PLAYERZ RETARDED IMMA FAP AT WT LOLOLOLOLOLOL

          :P

        • @ooorky1,orzel and the others…if WOT sucks so big time…then WTF are you doing in a forum dedicated to WOT?……oh…you suck at life enaugh to have nothing else to do
          please say ty to SS for not banning you right away and ..go play WT….nobody cares about your trolling…….

          this thread was a question not a complain/rant/rage/etc about WT vs WOT…..got it?

          1. i for sure would take a spin or two from the bridges……mwehehehe
          2. other than that….let them turn with their belly up …. noobs are on both teams usually ….and mr. W will have material for his videos :D

          on a side note: that is one big nazi emblem there…..even if it is a thunderbolt….the maker for sure is aware of the result……and he used it as such…i am 90% sure of it
          i am not sayng it should be banned…but about his intentions

          alex

  39. i think wt is unbalance for gameplay. one t34 can flip a t34. for a good balance one t34 cant flip one t34. one ht can flip one t34 (but t34 is more fast for escape) or 2 t34 can flip one t34.

    i think wt solution is extreme for gameplay(rubber tank). Maybe is nice but i think for gameplay is not good. Wot solution is much static only ram is now good. An hard flipping in little case with a good balance maybe is good solution.

  42. The physics in WTGF is fucked as clearly flipping tanks should not be this easy. KV-1 flipped by a T34 or even two T34s WTF. WTGF do not have the terrian in their single map to provide a realistic flipping situation or enough of them, so they have to resort to a cartoon physics model in order to get a jump on WG. Remember the Stug that flipped when it hit a rock in some “leaked” WTGF video – that was just a stunt as is their current physics model.

    Do not expect the WG physics model to be so Micky Mouse.

    • Do not expect the WT physics model to be so Micky mouse at release, god damn it. Look at wot in closed beta if you want to compare.

  43. Imo fliping over will be good and we need it….ofcourse not in a way it’s in WTGF right now…there’s too easy to flip a tank over with another tank…that’s just stupid and unrealistic…but why not make the tank flip over when you are trying to drive off a very steep hill? what’s so realistic in sliding down 100m high cliff in a tank and not losing a single HP nor detracking yourself(it’s possible if you do it slowly)? This way people would think twice before trying to run away down the cliff from the enemy….my point is make them flipable, but not that easily like in WT atm.

    • since they’re mostly peoples who doesn’t like WG very much and wanted (well, trying to) to give WG a lesson. i reckoned most of them hasn’t got pubic hairs

    • On a site dedicated to World of Tanks stuff.
      It seems that the actual WT fanboys you talking about are actually WoT palyers who does not believe the huge amout of bullshit anymore that comes from Wargaming sice April 2011.

  46. I am all for tanks flipping, or being flipped.

    My objection would be to the “ease” that this is happening in WT and that if WG does put it in they need to be a lot more strict with how it can happen. The tanks in WT seem to be sliding around all over the place, my 59-16 often slides sideways when turning on hills, but some of the larger tanks seem to be doing this at slow speeds in WT, if WG puts that type of gameplay in then I think it would be horrible (for tanks)… Trackmania with Tank skins would be a laugh, but not in the long run.

    And I must be a noob, as I still sometimes get stuck in holes or going down hills (really annoying as tanks like the ARL shouldn’t get stuck as the tracks will make contact)…

  47. I would like to see tanks tipping over. Sure, it might complicate matters, but most people are familiar with the idea of things tipping over. A new player might burn himself once, but next time he will know what (not) to do. Plus, tier one tanks are not the fastest ones around, so that should not be an immediate problem anyway. The upside to this is a more realistic physics model. Realistic behaviour is a good thing as it conforms more closely to natural expectations.

    • good times.. :D

      people forget far to easy and laugh about stuff when there preferred game didn’t made it any better.

  50. Yeah sure, let’s get back to pre 0.8 physics where you couldn’t drive off hill… WoT is getting too complicated for you SS?

    And about nazi insignia… I always wonder why nazi signs are no no no but soviet ones are fine… IMO both should be banned.

    • Nazi singns are not allowed in many European countries (BY LAW). Soviet ones are.

    • Because soviets were on the winners side and germans were not. Simple as that. It doesn’t matter that both regimes were killing people. You win, you get to dictate the course of action.

    • The Soviet atrocities, fully on par with the nazi ones, have always been underplayed or downright denied. What is more, nobody in Western Europe has bore the brunt of it; the shoah was visible and the German occupation did not go unnoticed, either. If Poland had not been occupied by the Soviets, I am fairly certain things would have been different. At any rate, I believe the bans are pointless.

  51. Back to the ”SS” insignia – actuall, Gaijin is so touchy about nazi stuff that even a Finnish swastika is a no-go (one of the SB2M bombers has a Finnish Air Force skin where the blue swastika is substituted by a blue cross).
    Plus, some people got warned on the forums because they posted photos of German fighters with a swastika on the tail fin.

  52. First of all: Waffen-SS insignia and Swastikas suck. Nobody Needs ‘em on a tank, unless he has somehow a nazi-fetish or something.

    Second of all: “Pick As ist Trumpf” is spelled so badly I first thought it was a different language then my beloved german. I thought it was something in bad english like “Pick ass it’s Triumph” or something like that. No what they meant is “Ace of Spades is the trump Card”, but it actually is translated like this: “Pik-Ass ist Trumpf”. “Pikass” would’ve been correct also. Well, at least they got the spelling of “SS” right…

    Third of all: A T-34 weighs approximately 30 tons. That’s 60.000 Pounds (that’s ten (10!!!!) elephants). And another tank bumps with what seems to be 20 km/h into this really heavy Thing and Flips it over like it was a pancake?! How terribly realistic.

    Last of all: KV1 is even heavier…

    What a great reason not to Play this fucking game ever. I have no Problem with seeing a e50m flipping over a Scout at 60 km/h, but maus flipping over a maus (for example) is just plain stupid and just shouldn’t be possible. In this vid a 30 ton machine Flips over a 50 ton machine?! Very funny. so e50m Flips over mauses at will? :D I can see a battlefield full of flipped over useless tanks and a Scout killing them all off.

    No Thanks Warthunder :)

  53. Hey, Silent, you forget that this is a game and if flipping tanks over generates fun, then by all means, it’s a good thing. If people want to take this game seriously, they can join a clan or an ESL team at any time but this game is made for fun and flipping could bring us an extra dose of fun.

  54. jumping on conclusions and flaming when its in fact just closed beta which exist for the reason of finding and fixing bugs and doing various tweaks. the games are not even the same genre so its bound to be different. get over it. dont like it? dont have it…

  55. That’s hilarious. Just a few posts ago was a video of how hard it is for a more powerful modern tank to get out of a mud hole. Here a weaker tank bowls over another equal size tank like it was one of those British balloon decoy tanks.

  56. i dare to say most (almost all of them in fact) peoples who said that flippable tanks are needed whilst mocking WG in the end of it are WG haters (A.K.A WT fanboys).

  57. The SS was not really intended. It is 2 lightnings without the top and bottom close to eachother. Blame the player.

    • look here, when was that video made? and then when is WT GF CBT?
      please kid, even my puppy learns from his father, why not WT?
      one idiot here is you, and other WT fantoddlers

      • You’ve just made a dick of yourself. I can’t even run WT, but you’re already calling ME a fanboy for defending WT from WoT fanboys. No one said to look at the graphics. All I meant is that it already has physics. Got it?

  59. Is it really realistic to flip a tank over just by ramming it? I think if you crash a car against some other car it also does not flip over. Not when its going 40 km/h.

      • I am talking about implementation in any game. I even think what is currently possible in WoT, like jumping over the sand dune, is unrealistic.

  60. I want this feature as soon as possible. Noobs were and will suicide no matter what. I play this game for 2 years now and I see no improvement among players. Majority of players are noobs they will die in most idiotic fashion possible no matter what. Yes, there will be more deaths in the beginning. Same thing happened when ability to “fly” was introduced. Its not an issue now.

    For me it will improve quality of the game, will give me some epic and fun moments and that’s why I play games.

  61. Funny to read comments about WoT vs WT:GF.

    War Thunder fanboy: “War Thunder Ground Forces is sooooooo much better than WoT!!!!!”
    Random person: “Well, I played Ground Forces, and it’s full of bullsh*t and bugs.”
    War Thunder fanboy: “DON’T YOU DARE TO CRITICIZE WAR THUNDER GROUND FORCES, IT’S STILL IN BETA!!!!”
    Random person: “Then tell me, how can a game that’s unfinished, far from release, filled with bugs and a whopping total of eight tanks beat a game like World of Tanks?”
    War Thunder fanboy: *Explosion of rage*

    • /thread and a big +9000

      This “war” (well, so far it was mostly crusade of wt fanbois flailing their e-penises and masturbating around wot forums/threads/blogs/whatever) goes on for… 2 years already? And I think it will only get worse after wtf:gf release. Because interwebz really need another bf vs cod/consoles vs pc/ xbox vs ps crap.

      • just need those WT fantoddlers to shut up. WT GF and WoT is two different game, one is simulator, one is arcade. all those WT fantoddlers are just discriminating WoT which is unfair in every single point of view

  63. Looking at the SS Insignia on the KV-1, it looks like that was simply made out of two, separate, lightning bolt markings. In other words, it’s the player being a dick doing it, not the game itself.

    That said I’ve already concluded I’ll have a battle cry when Ground Forces reaches release: I’ll occasionally run straight dive bombers and attackers, and announce my presence over All chat with “Let’s make some World of Tanks players.”

  64. i hope the people in here understand that this is early beta and that sort of stuff won’t be making it to production

  66. Being able to display Nazi emblems and fetishize my tank is another one of the reasons I will be abandoning World of Tanks for War Thunder.

    Finally we have a company (Gaijin) that treats players with respect, and are ready to risk bad publicity from petty liberal traitors like you to give their playerbase the historical authenticity they deserve.

    My grandfather was a SS panzer commander who was at Malmedy (yes I know my username is stalin_manofsteel, but that’s because my grandmother was one of (several) Russian war brides he took, which shows how virile Germans are. I grew up in Russia but my grandmother worshipped my grandfather and told me great tales of him). I will be decorating my tank in War Thunder after his vehicle, in his honor. Hopefully War Thunder will be immune to the Russian bias present in World of Tanks, and German vehicles will be as technically superior in that game as they were in real life.

    • yep, the Germans TD’s in current CBT are killers, i got shot from 1.5k many times by some StuG, they penetrate very well…. SS would love them, but he don’t like WT so well…

  67. And we all know how much of an issue ramming can be, just play WOWP a few times…

    • “This article comment section is jsut adorable. Butthurt WT fanbois everywhere. :D”

      Fix’d.
      -”Well, doesn’t look that awesome to me, still has some bugs”
      -”OMG U FUCKING GAY FAG IT’S BETA U COCKSUCKER!!!!!!!”
      -”And you guys bashed wowp when it was still beta…”
      -”STFU WOT FANBOI UR RETARD STOP BEING BUTTHURT HERP DERP”

      Here’s a little… DRINKING GAME!

      Take a shot every time you read “beta” (or “cb”) in comments. Have fun! :D

        • You’re so mad&butthurt you’re only defense is trolling accusations? If that’s the intellectual level of average wt fangirl then they all combined are dumber than mashed potatoes I ate today.

          qq moar?

  69. Warthunder is like Arma to me. Looks nice, attempts to emulate realism. Has more bugs than you can count. I’ll probably favor WoT and hop onto warthunder whenever I feel like driving an su-152 one shotting everything.

  70. Well, i guess we need one, but with correct mass and weight…
    Seriously? a T-34 can almost flip a KV-1? that’s just way beyond imagination.

  71. WOT doesn’t need it, seeing as they basically aknowledged their playerbase is full of asshats and idiots (the announcement of the ability to disable chat).

  72. With the way tanks drift and flip over it feels like they weigh just 10 kilos. And it also seems that if you have sloped frontal armor you automatically turn into a snow plow. I hope they will optimize the way tanks flip before releasing ground forces.
    Flipping tanks over does make the game more realistic but I don’t think that WoT needs it.

  73. Inflatable tanks anyone?

    With the way those tanks flip so easily you’d think they were made of rubber and filled with helium.

    It’s bad enough in WoT that your tank feels like you’re playing Micro Machines sometimes, without them being able to bounce around the place.

    The impact it would take to ram a tank and flip it over, given their HUGE weight (even the Hellcat weighs 12 times as much as my car) and low centre of gravity, the crews would be mushed inside.

    I’d he happy to see flipped tanks if it was a 1 in 100 game occurrence, and that means seeing it once among all 30 tanks in 100 games.

    There are noobs who suicide off cliffs already, elt’s not give them more opportunities.

  74. regarding the waffen ss logo as you mentioned at end of section.
    in warthunder there is a decal for the aircraft of a single lightning bolt.
    i dare say that someone has just put 2 of these together, enlargened so it cuts the ends off to emulate the waffen ss logo.

    also in that vid is it just me or does that tank being flipped feel as though its an inflatable tank or something, no way does that look realistic (physics-wise)

  75. Hi all, few bits from me:

    - i dont find WT graphics particularly good-looking. I guess I’m not alone who find WT graphics too cartoony, too vivid colours, too… how to say … eye candy.
    - explosions looks better in WoT, especially big arty missed shots on snow terrain are impressive. Gun blaze effect also seems better for me in WoT.
    - flipping a tank is way too easy in WT – I’m not a war veteran, but flipping T-34 by a T-34 from the rear sounds nonsense to me. Even that easy side flipping of PzIV (or whatever tank is that) seems conspicious but probably possible. However, fliping a tank lenght-wise is, imho, very strange.