Source: wotleaks.ru
You waited for it. You wanted it. Here it is :)
In 9.0, the tier 5 Panzer IV model will change into the Ausführung H – with side skirts (Schurzen). And no, this is NOT an alternative hull. This is how tier 5 Panzer IV will look like.
Nice, looks like a buff to me if the skirts act like spaced armor.
They do – no more derp oneshots :D
Behold the evil… This is serious reason to buy it once again :D
WOO!
If I were you I wouldn’t like having these skirts acting like armor. Same case as Centurion – 6mm is not a big amount and it gets overmatched pretty easily and shot is then directed right into vehicle. There were images of top KV1 cannon penetrating side armor of Centurion from weird angles. Correct me if I’m wrong.
you don’t take damage when spaced armor is penetrated, the Centurion suffers from the brittish “cardboard side armor” syndrome, where there is like 51 mm of armor on the side.
It’s been confirmed that penetrating spaced armor doesn’t change the shell’s trajectory.
Centurion’s final drive is sticking out to the side. If you get penetrated at an impossible angle it probably got hit. Same problem for the high tier heavies.
Wow, I like the return of the Schürzen
No more HE penetration from the side :D
Good thing SPG HE comes in from above…
M4 Sherman’s 105mm M3 HE shells do *not*. The same goes with other 105mm guns
I’d say something about the KV-2 but that stands an appreciable chance of penetrating by itself.
Dat machine gun !
What gun is on it? L/43? Also, will there be any changes in gun selection of the tank?
Looks like the usual derpgun to me.
i think its 10.5cm derp
nope… it’s 8.8 , wrote in the picture
That’s the round to be fired at the tank, not the gun mounted.
That’s the caliber of shell used to determine overmatching when you look at effective armour thickness. It can be set to any size of AP shell in the game.
sorry, never use Tank Inspector before. My bad
Common sense, the most elementary historical knowledge and one look at the gun barrel should already have ruled out the “acht-acht”.
I suspect when 9.0 launches…(the below is a mix of FTR info and speculation)
Ausf. A/B/C: 7.5cm L/24, 5cm L/42
Ausf. D/E/F/F2: 7.5cm L/24, 5cm L/42, 5cm L/60, 7.5cm L/43
Ausf. G(early)/G(late – this is what’s currently our tier 5)/H/J(maybe): 7.5cm L/43, 7.5cm L/48, 10.5cm L/28
what about the pz4 schmalturm ? will it also get space armor ?
I somehow doubt that a chicken-wire fence is going to stop a bullet, let alone a tank shell.
well, it was said that it had the same effect towards HE ammo, because they activated the trigger of the grenade or something
on HEAT.
And if youre shooting HEAT on a Pz. IV S, you’re doing it wrong.
The Side Skirts where designed to reduce the penetrating power of anti tank rifles. The bullets lost there penetrating power and could not penetrate the hull anymore. Maybe they have little effect in-game but Wargaming should still include them in there penetration calculations.
Sideskirts, yes. But PZ4 S. has just a mesh, it would be good against HEAT, but I doubt it’d detonate HE.
Then change the mesh to real side spaced armour like on the H.
Seriously…
The mesh was introduced on the PZIVJ, it is proper for the PZIVS. The Mesh was much more effective dealing with heat rounds, both from tank/at guns, and hand held bazooka, panzerfaust, etc.
Appy/Samanths
I sincerely doubt there was any difference in effectiveness, standoff is standoff. The wire *was* lighter and less resource-consuming however.
They are still doing non-HD remodelling? Odd.
Aww, you have never seen socialistic efficiency of labour :)
Aww, you still not woken up for the 21th century to face reality? Belarus is a Capitalist shithole just like rest of the world, GG.
wait…so they will change the color too ?
WG is copying War Thunder…
Sad WarGaming , i can`t wait for realistic battles in War Thunder ground forces , no more hp , and real power of germans, russians, britans and americans , no more buffs and nerfs , and no more fake tanks + Airplanes in one game , no more issues with money , no more gold projectiles , no more noobs , that die in few seconds
Have fun being oneshot by Russian tanks everywhere.
its not a problem for me , this is reality , and you have 5 tanks or more per game in arcade
It’s a fundamental difference in gameplay, and whether it’s good or bad depends on what you like. I mostly play WoT because I want a short, simple battle. I’ve played WT and I really dislike being dragged in for 20 minutes. I’m 40 years old, I have kids, I can’t actually afford 20 uninterrupted minutes of *anything*. But I bet younger me would have loved it to bits.
“arcade” – so much for realism….
War Thunder has 3 different difficulty settings, from arcade over more realistic to simulator-like. But I don’t think WG added the skirts back in because of WT, tbh…
-still can repair tracks in the field at the click of a button
-still has rejected proposals
-pits postwar russian tanks against WWII German tanks
-still is a one-man operation inside a tank
-still uses mouse and keyboard
“reality”.
You forgot that the supposed end-tier German Heavy in War Thunder is a Tiger II with a 128 mm gun (basically the E-75 in WoT), when the gun wouldn’t even fit in the Tiger II’s turret. Frankly, they should have gone with the Maus, since at least that tank actually existed. It’d be slower than molasses running uphill in Summer, but its armor would have a decent chance of protecting it long enough to get a shot or two off at an enemy tank.
Top tier German Tiger gets the 105 kwk 46, not the 128. It’s essentially the elite configuration of WoT’s Tiger II, and it will face what WoT considers a stock IS-4 (D-25T), and a T-54 mounting D-10T’s or LB-1′s, and I don’t think the later models will have 120mm hulls either.
You forgot the part where if your turret is jammed its jammed forever.
To be fair, KV-2s one-shot equal-tiered tanks quite often in World of Tanks anyway. XD
The only difference in War Thunder is that it has competition now, since anyone can be killed by anything with one shot in the right spot.
no fake tank ? what about that Panther II with 88mm l71 and 10.5mm kwk 46 Tiger Ausf.B ?
no gold shell ? you can unlock them and trust me, it suck just as much as in WoT
and no noob that die in first few minus ? have you everplay WT ?
Both of those were planned upgrades to those vehicles. True, they were never built, but they were at least planned.
No, Panther II can’t nerver use the 88 or the Schmalturm. Nothing like that ever planned.
You obviously did not watch this movie of the mighty jingles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8I5wzLgiDU
Every time he got 1 shotted in that video it was because he drove out in the open broadsided and wondered why he got killed. No offence to anybody throwing that video out there, its an awful example of WT GF and if you want to see it played properly, watch eNtaK’s channel.
hahah surely their balance model will be perfect from start and nobody will complain. for me it is good that WG uses good ideas, even if they are taken from competitors. for me worst thing in wot are colourful outlines ( they dont always work and sometimes u dont shoot because it lies u are not aiming at enemy). Hp system allows to balance caliber and rof dependent gun damage, but i think hp difference is too big between tiers 4-6 and 6-8, (a20 340hp, t34/85 720hp, t44 1300hp) ofc kv1 has too much hitpoints and kv1s is op, low tier scouts are useless, but rest is rather balanced
I don’t think you’ve ever played WT…the only thing you put up there that’s correct is “no more HP”, as for the rest, not so much. Then you ask for realistic battles, but say you have multiple tanks, not if you’re playing realistic battles.
WT can be fun, but it is not some all pervasive WoT killer. Completely different games for completely different purposes, and both games have plenty of good points and plenty of issues.
>no more hp
Bollocks. No visible hp bar doesn’t mean the game doesn’t use hp mechanisms.
>no more buffs and nerfs
Even if devs don’t touch the vehicle parameters there are always plenty of ways to buff/nerf. And in online games (especially mmo’s) almost. Every. Update. Is. About. REBALANCE. Wt will be no exception, since cbt doesn’t give large enough sample to get all statistics right.
>no more noobs , that die in few seconds
Hi, you must be new to teh internetz…
Most of what you say wont be so. Noobs are in WT too…
Experimental tanks and prototypes can be a plus for some people.
The two games are vastly different otherwise…
Also, have fun matching the unhistorical Tiger 2 105mmL61 against an IS-4 with real D-25T accuracy and HE spall mechanics…
You wont like it :)
Tiger 2 105mm L61 is in fact a very real proposal that had prints drawn up.
I know that :) .
But it was never a real and produced tank. Unlike the real Tiger 2 and the IS-4. AND EVEN it wont be capable of fighting the IS-4.
Game’s full of tanks that never even seen a prototype build.
War thunder supposedly is for realistic tanks :)
But it is still a game and still needs to be balanced, does it not? Otherwise the Germans wouldn’t have anything to honestly field past Tier 4.
You missed the point.
The German fanboys will find it funny, that even a prototype tank in their otherwise free of made up stuff game cant compete against the IS-4…
But only a proposal. and a rejected one at that.
Pz4 with skirts is a logical end tier design if you are breaking the pz4 into different tier tanks. WT didn’t invent the design the Germans did.
My problem with WT is the COD gameplay and the fact that until they get the repair situation fixed cripples are going to be a huge problem at higher tiers. Who wants to drive around in a tiger with plenty of “health” but a broken horizontal turret traverse.
It is funny to see the Warthunder fanboys:
Wot makes something already in Warthunder -> Omg WG copies Warthunder
Warthunder makes something already in Wot -> Omg you dont understand it is a historical vehicle it is not copied.
the only thing i want from WT to be implemented in WoT is the separating of transmissions and engine. No more fire/engine damage from a frontal shot . Anyone drove an E-100 and got burned twice from 2 shot through LFP will know my pain.
No you just will get one shot when someone shots at your driver hatch, because the ammo rack is right behind it.
Also to mention penetration is not everything in WT, its actually often a lot better to use APHE shells then any sort of sub caliber shells, because the do more damage.
If you want to watch a guys how actually explains that what grmlzgaming channel on YT.
There is even an example where he has to much penetration while hes shooting at a flak panzer 1 and the shells just travels trough the tank without exploding or hitting anything vital.
Why don’t you WT fan boys go somewhere your wanted, cause it is not here.
Appy/Samantha
That also perfectly demonstrates how sometimes a lack of armor was an advantage, as the Soviets found out against the Japanese in Manchuria: their shots would punch clean through a Japanese tank without doing any damage to internal components or causing any sort of spalling because their armor was that poor.
The Americans noted the same thing in the Pacific.
Switching to HE solved the issue very conclusively.
Actually you could theoretically set a tank’s transmission on fire (transmission fluid is flammable, but not as flammable as gasoline, so therefore fires should occur less-often from transmission hits). I’ll agree that they should be separate modules, but bear in mind that transmission damage CAN damage an engine irl.
i don’t care much about damaged engine in a HT. Just don’t set it on fire, and i’m happy with it.
Okay, how is this: Have fun getting oneshot by Dive Bombers! :D
don’t mean to defend WT, but at least you have change to see and avoid a bomber, and he will be at risk when attack you. In WoT we get 1 shoted by arty, and no chance to fight back
I’m sure evasive maneuvers to throw off the bomber’s aim make it MUCH easier to avoid getting one-shot by enemy tonks. And it’s not like judicious movement did wonders to arty hit rates or anything.
Plus arty you can at least hunt down. Hell, one of the more common arty-player chat messages during the countdown is a fervent plea for the others to keep the enemy fast stuff from slipping through and massacring them…
Or look at it this way:
You can be a badass, turn your gun around, and blow that dive bomber out of the sky with your main gun. (Yes, it’s possible, just exceedingly difficult)
Yeah you do that.
Yay! Me wants…
I wonder if weight will increase to 25.75 or 26 tons
I’m not going to sell mine :-)
So if there’s going to be three Pz. IVs after the split…is that not one, but two free slots? I need to buy back my Pz. IV.
Ha ha ha, not a chance.
They will change Pz IV in one patch then introduce new Pz IV line in another patch. No split, no free slots, no free tanks.
I really doubt it will be a split, it will be introduction of new tanks and remodelling of existing one.
Nothing to be really happy about for old players, but those who didn’t start this line/new players can safely avoid the hellish abomination of a tank aka pz38na, I guess.
Keep in mind that upgradable hulls are coming eventually. There is a very good chance that we would see the Panzer IV in game receive an earlier hull model.
Or a later one, like the Panzer IV J
I wonder what will happen with the 38(t) branch. There will be also a new tier 4 stug so my guess is that the Hetzer also stay t4 and the 38(t) leads to it or the Hetzer will pushed up to T5, and the 38Na leads to it.
My guess is they’ll do it like how they did the grind to the T-34: two alternative routes, one less painful than the other.
And they still have left the turret side screens open ….
AND STILL THE ‘DOORS’ ARE OPEN!
that is just so fucking annoying >:-(
I think we will have same problem as british heavys and theirs overmatched “”side skirts””.
Protruding drive sprockets. /discussion
As has been said before, that’s a different problem entirely. The British have actual HP-hit-box armour on the sides. These will be spaced armour and thus not reduce HP when penetrated
About the historical battles to come, I just wonder about the Tiger 1 8,8 cm Kw.K. 36 L/56 Gun 0,38 dispersion? Are they going to buff it or is that a “balance” thing… Cos i thought it was one of the most accurate tank guns in the war?
Accuracy largely pertains to balance moreso than historical stats. Granted, they will change it within reason to better represent it’s historical qualities, but ultimately game balance trumps this. One also has to keep in mind that while it was one of the more accurate tank guns of world war 2 (comparable accuracy to the 122mm D-25), a lot of the guns which it was compared to are things like the American 75mm, soviet 76mm and soviet 85mm, which all have less accuracy than the 8.8cm L/56 in game.
EDIT (Information may not be 100% accurate)
Well the maps are 1km by 1km at best so guns are rebalanced to reflect this. Otherwise most. if not all guns. would shoot like lasers due to the maps being small enough and engagements close enough that the shells would not drop very far because the distance is so short. Now if the maps were 2-3km by 2-3km this would allow for purely historical gun accuracy but then we would need several times more tanks on each side of the map.
EDIT—Brain Fart—
At *last*. Now all they need to do is close the damn turret armour doors, and give the 75mm L/48 the buffing they PROMISED so long ago.
They did buff the L/48′s pen around the same time they removed the Schmallturm and L/70. Not so sure about the L/43
They promised at the time to make the L/48 the equal of the soviet 57mm on the T-34 in terms of DPM and accuracy. neither happened.
Notice no MG weakspot either.
while nice it’s probably incorrect, as the Kugelblende as they called it came in many sizes depending on armor, 30,50,80,100,150 and so.
The IV apparently used the Kugelblende 50 (50mm) I suppose it’s possible that late J’s started to have an 80mm version installed but I have never seen that mentioned in any books.
I think I read on overlords blog about the kugelblendes, the supposedly 50mm was hardly changed since it was strong enough, even with the added armor it was not a weakspot.
That same article said that those kugelblendes either had same effective armor as main hull or even better. So it was about time WG changed it.
A while ago with the German hitbox changes in 8.8, WG said they were going to get in the process of removing the MG weakness from all German tanks
Cast armor as early as 1940 was was taken into consideration when installing a ball mounted MG port on a tank. The Germans basically made the MGs cast armor as thick as it was needed to match the protection performance of the surrounding glacis armor.
front glacis armor nerfed to 20mm by the looks
Irrelevant, but MG34 or 42? Can’t see properly, either way, great general purpose MGs :)
MG 34
As cwjian here said, MG-34. They used em in tanks throughout the war since while it wasn’t all too suitable for infantry use due to the issues it had with dirt n’ whatnot, it suited a tank just fine.
The 42 being faster and cheaper to manufacture and hence far better suited for issue in the kinds of numbers the infantry required was probably also relevant.
No a kdy dostane “šircny” stug?
It should look like this from the beginning.
Pingback: WoTLeaks Panzer IV tier V
1. Girls und Panzer fans (like me, I guess) scream with glee, now we can have the Anko Team’s Pz IV like in the last episodes after they added the Schürzen for the turret and the hull. Me likes! :)
2. When my M4 cant derp them anymore through the hull, I’ll just take shots at the back or I snipe the little opening on the turret. Always works :D
In response to the second one:
GOOD! You (and other M4 Sherman drivers using the 105 mm with HEAT shells) will actually have to AIM now!
People who prefer the 76mm M1 are rightfully uneffected. Maybe the actual antitank gun will see more use when people see their HEAT shells getting eaten?
Hopefully. I always used 75mm on my Pz IV and also on M4. Hell, I even used 75mm on Hetzer, tried the howitzers on those tanks only for few battles.
Mine already looks like the Anko Team’s Pz IV :)
http://i.imgur.com/uGV3T1D.png
If the tier 5 Panzer IV gets side skirts that act as spaced armor, then there’ll be no excuse for the side skirts on the Panzer IV S at tier to not count as spaced armor as well; yes, I have one myself, but the extra bit of spaced armor should at least provide some additional protection against the HEAT shells spammed by some tier 5 and 6 tanks it goes up against, as they were designed irl to stop shaped charges. Don’t get me wrong, I love it as it is, but they’re modeled on the tank, so why shouldn’t they be counted as spaced armor rather than something purely cosmetic?
Cool the spaced armor works on that model!
could you fix the Pz.Kpfw. IV Schmalturm?????
its spaced armor does not show up on the Collision model( does not work)
If you fix the tier 6 Pz.Kpfw. IV Schmalturm i will buy both
So, um, Why isn’t this a Tier 6?
I would expect that sloped armor PzIV to be a Tier 6 more readily than this thing.
Cause’ on it’s own, the Panzer IV’s only strength at the moment really is the derp and lower profile.
Its in a tie for the best medium tank at tier 5, now you give it pretty much tier 6 protection at tier 5….
in what way? they added 5mm spaced to the side armor of 30mm. a number of tier 5 tanks have better. they heavily nerfed the frontal armor as well, that glacis has dropped to 20mm by the looks. and the front turret armor at the very bottom sides has changed to 30mm from 50mm.
The T-34 has 45mm side armor with a slope and the M-4 has a 38mm side for example.
Beat me to it. The spaced armor can be considered a buff, but only against HE, and the resulting explosion is still going to have a decent chance to wreck tracks, ammo rack or engine, depending on where it hits. AP shells and artillery are still going to ruin the tank’s day regardless.
Tier 6 protection…yea, maybe if you’re used to driving Japanese tanks or something. And in that case, yea, you could even go far as to say it has the side armor protection of a tier X. Woo!
The current 75mm L/48 makes for a pretty lousy tier 6 medium gun.
For that matter, its pretty underwhelming as a tier 5 medium gun.
The tier 6 German mediums are pretty good as they are. They don’t really need to screw around with those.
OMG this panzer 4 is so fucking sexy. holy shit im gonna play so many games in it.
I’m glad we finally get a proper Pz IV with Schurzen, I just hope it keeps it’s gun selection, I don’t like using a 105 on it. Also when is it coming out and does the other Pz IV at tier 4 come out at the same time?
German Bias!
It even has MG on top.
It’s about goddamn time, WG. Only took fans asking for it since…well, the tank was introduced.
Might have to buy my PzIV back now…I always have liked the look of the Ausf. H package.
Meh, the old model is more detailed :/