Generation of Victory

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Source: WG RU Portal

 

 

There are no English subtitles, but you can select the “translate subtitles” to “English”, it’s sufficient, to know what they are talking about.

Hello everyone,

Wargaming recently released another video from the “Remember Everything” series, dedicated to honoring the World War Two veterans. Technically, there is nothing wrong with that – these people in the movie (describing their feelings about “protecting the motherland” and all that) fought in possibly the worst war conflict in human history (personally, strictly combat-wise, disregarding the terrible WW2 background of concentration camps and such, I consider the battlefield of WW1 to be the most terrifying thing to happen in the history of wars) and deserve our respect.

But…

There is always a “but”, isn’t there. What I do not like is how – whenever Russian part of the war is mentioned – everyone conveniently forgets how Stalin and Hitler were good allies before 1941. In Russia, the Great Patriotic War started in 1941 – not 1939, when the Russians were more than happy to tear off a piece of Poland, invading along with Hitler, claiming they are “protecting the Russians, oppressed by the Polish” and “returning to their historical territory” (that does sound familiar, given recent events, doesn’t it?). As for the behavior of Russians in general before the war… well, there was a reason for the fact that in Ukraine, the Germans were at first (before they started applying their retarded and vile racial theories) welcomed as liberators (the Holodomor was still fresh in the memory of Ukrainians).

In this context, the narrative of the video, saying that the Russian soldiers wanted (quoting) “not only to protect their motherland from fascism, but to liberate Europe from it” sounds a bit… silly. Of course, this is directed at Russian audience (there are no English subtitles), the same video in English would cause a riot on EU forums (well, that’s why WG RU doesn’t – wisely – export this series of videos).

The most ironical part is possibly the ending, where a former Russian soldier calls for people to remember the past, why they fought. Yes, that definitely should be remembered, especially the part about what happens when a power-hungry dictator invades other lands, while the West appeases him. That part is very, very important.

117 thoughts on “Generation of Victory”

  1. Silent , how`s that private issue solving going on? I thought you said you are to post QA translations in evenings only…or maybe i was mistaken.

      • I really hope it’s not you having some deadly illness (Cancer etc). Your comment really sounded like you where saying that you’ll be trying to continue this -while you still can-. :(

          • But speculation is fun, just like solving riddles.

            My 2 cents? WarGaming conspires with the KGB or however they are calling themselves nowadays, to poison SilentStalker with Radium or Polonium or whatever, for repeatedly criticizing of WG and leaking stuff that only russian supertesters are allowed to leak!

      • “Yes, that definitely should be remembered, especially the part about what happens when a power-hungry dictator invades other lands, while the West appeases him. That part is very, very important”

        May I just say you hit the nail on the head! Bravo! Bravo! :D

  2. And they always forget how they TRIED to invade Finland 1939. And got their ravaged asses handed to them on a platter.

      • Finland was never invaded in WWII. Only capital city besides London in Europe that wasn’t invaded (from the countries that were in war) was Helsinki. Learn your history before you come to comment me, vitun ryssä.

        And I don’t speak russian, so I consider it a win.

        • Red army invaded, stupid=)

          To remind you, than Talvisota ended? Finland lost. Then you together with Germans intruded in the Soviet Russia in 41 and as lost, having signed the peace in 44. Mannergeym was after all the reasonable person, unlike Hitler

          Finland lost two wars to the Soviet Union. So you can represent as much as necessary from yourself the heroes resisting to communists. If Stalin wanted – Finland too would be occupied.

          • Which happened after the bombing of Helsinki by Soviets (after the douchy speach by Hitler). Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

              • On June 25 Soviet bombers attacked Finnish cities, including Helsinki and Turku, seaports and airfields.The medieval castle in Turku was damaged. The Finns now had to acknowledge they were at war with the Soviet Union, and Prime Minister Rangell announced this to the Parliament. The next day President Ryti spoke to the people on the radio and noted that Finland was again at war with their old enemy.

                • Finland is again in a condition of defensive war with the USSR – after crossed the border with the USSR and helped Germans with the Siege of Leningrad – became aggressors. Everything is simple.

                  This invasion, what reasons for a justification wouldn’t be used

        • I think you are confusing “invaded” and “conquered”, cos Finland was certainly invaded. An invasion is simply where a foreign army enters your territory, every European nation in ww2 was invaded, including the UK (channel islands were occupied for the whole war, and of course the Japanese occupied plenty of British territory) as was the US (Aleutians, Mariannas and Phillipines all invaded by Japanese).

    • Do not forget. That the Grand Duchy of Finland, was part of the Russian Empire
      from 1809 to 1917.
      Why Finland is well defended?
      Led the defense, Baron Mannerheim, Carl Gustaf Emil.
      Enrolled in 1887 in Russian Cavalry School in St. Petersburg. Two years later, in 1889, 22-year-old Gustav Mannerheim graduated with honors. He was also promoted to the rank of officer.
      In the Russian army was in 1887-1917, starting with the rank of cornet and ending Lieutenant-General.
      Why Finland is well defended? Russian military school.

      • Genetics.
        Finnish haplogroup N1c1
        On the territory of Russia is home to 20% of the population of this group.
        That’s roughly 30 million people.

      • Yeah, we should never forget that Russians are such retards that they decided to destroy their own culture and ruin their nation. Daily reminder: real Russians fought against Soviet Union, only mongoloid subhumans supported it.

    • No bigger hypocrits than cowboy USA and that old dog EU who follows his owner USA blindly whereever they point their finger…Its okay when western occupy other countries to protect oil democracy in them and when Russia is doing more or less the same, suddenly everyone feels offended.

      EU is ivertebrate organisation that doesnt have its own opinion, always same as their boss america. Anyway leader of EU is grandson of Nazzi Wermacht officer. Thats portray EU best…

      • How about nation who liberated countries and “forgot” to remove the army? Keeping army in other country for 50 years – I call it occupation.

  5. My gf was educated in a, at the time, a soviet satellite state. She akways says that the war started in 41. She knew nothing of things like D- Day etc etc. But I forgive her when she says “strong Russian tank” in her accent :-)

    • Soviet propaganda always is silent about things they do not like or at least turn those fact around and show in desired “light”.

      • To be fair, pretty much everyone puts their own spin on history, from governments right down to individuals. Its just the way we are as people, we always try to make ourselves look good and justify our bad decisions by vilifying the enemy.

        Every country on earth has done good for good reasons, bad for bad reasons, and often they have even done good for bad reasons and bad for good reasons. Russia, USA, the UK, Germany… I do not know where you are from, but I can guarantee you that even your government has done bad things and then tried to put a good spin on it. Its just an unfortunate fact of life.

        But what makes me really mad though, is when people look at the bad decisions a particular government makes, then automatically decide that all the citizens of that country are also bad because of it.

  6. In before dozens of frustrated comments written with Cyrilic:

    It’s Russia, get over it. They need to keep that mythology because they crave for importance, and idolize the past. And Nazi “betrayal” is excellent foundation for such a mythology.
    God forbid anyone mention Soviets support in Hitler’s rise to power, or… Day M :^)

    • this, the terminal russian inferiority complex will always see them strive for importance on the world stage………not saying thats a bad thing i have nothing for or against russians….its just the way it actually is.

  7. Текст комментария оставлю на двух языках.

    “Возвращая их исторические территории” – почему нет? В конце концов, Западная Украина и Западная Белоруссия достались Польше после советско-польской войны в 1920 году, когда поляки первыми напали на Украину. Советская Россия тогда войну проиграла после провала наступления на Варшаву. Хотя ресурсы позволяли воевать дальше, разгорающееся Тамбовское восстание в тылу у большевиков не позволило это сделать.

    Таким образом, Западная Украина – это НЕ территории Польши. И изначально украинские националисты боролисть именно с поляками, а не с “кровавыми коммунистами”.

    И вот еще что, европейцы: на эту историю с разделом Польши мы смотрим очень по-разному. Поймите, что буржуазная Польша НЕНАВИДЕЛА Советский Союз. А Советская Россия НЕНАВИДЕЛА буржуазную Польшу. По сути они были врагами. Поэтому очень смешно читать любые статьи и тексты европейцев\американцев о бедной несчастной Польше, которая в концентрационных лагерях уничтожила после Советско-польской войны в 1920 несколько тысяч солдат Красной Армии, а позже в польских лагерях сидели противники польской власти. А так же строила планы войны против Советской России.

    Более того, возродилось старое многовековое противостояние между русскими и поляками. И снова должен был остаться только кто-то один. Старая ненависть, старые обиды. Речь Посполитая против Российской империи. Ну и что с того, что теперь они назывались по-другому

    Реванш был делом времени, и советское руководство использовало полученную возможность. Уничтожить или ослабить своего врага – разве это не есть благо для своей страны? Просто поставьте себя на место советского руководства, и вам всё станет понятно. Польша, кстати, если бы ей выпал шанс – сделала бы то же самое и участвовала бы в разделе советских земель.

    Особой дружбы большевиков с нацистами, кстати, никогда не было, хотя и было сотрудничество. Его масштабы были не очень большими, хотя и историки до сих пор спорят об этом.

    PS Напоследок. Уважаемые европейцы, поймите: в России очень мало людей, которые испытывают стыд и вину за свою историю (возможно, вам бы хотелось, чтобы их было больше). Успехи России в завоеваниях – это НЕ причина для стыда. Завоеваниями в прошлом занимались очень многие страны, это нормально. Но почему-то винить всегда во всех грехах вы хотите именно Россию, а не Германию или Британию, или Австро-Венгрию, например. Что вызывает раздражение и непонимание у русских.

    I will leave the text of the comment in two languages.

    “Returning their historical territories” – why not? Eventually, Poland got the Western Ukraine and the Western Belarus after the Soviet-Polish war in 1920 when Poles the first attacked Ukraine. The Soviet Russia then lost war after a failure of approach to Warsaw. Though resources allowed to be at war further, the inflaming Tambov revolt in the back at Bolsheviks didn’t allow to make it.

    Thus, the Western Ukraine is NOT territories of Poland. And initially Ukrainian nationalists struggled with Poles, but not with “bloody communists”.

    And here still that, Europeans: with the section of Poland we look at this history very much differently. Understand that bourgeois Poland HATED the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Russia HATED bourgeois Poland. In fact they were enemies. Therefore very ridiculously to read any articles and texts of Europeans \Americans about poor unfortunate Poland which in concentration camps destroyed after the Soviet-Polish war in 1920 some thousands of soldiers of Red Army, and later in the Polish camps opponents of the Polish power sat. And also made plans of war against the Soviet Russia.

    Moreover, old centuries-old opposition between Russians and Poles revived. And again there had to be only someone one. Old hatred, old offenses. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth against the Russian Empire. Well and that that now they were called in a different.

    The revenge was business of time, and the Soviet management used the had opportunity. To destroy or weaken the enemy – unless it isn’t the benefit for the country? Simply put yourself to the place of the Soviet management, and everything will become clear to you. Poland, by the way, if to it the chance dropped out – would make the same and would participate in the section of Soviet lands.

    Special friendship of Bolsheviks with nazis, by the way, never was, though there was a cooperation. Its scales were not really big, though historians still argue on it.

    PS Finally. Dear Europeans, understand: in Russia there aren’t enough people who test shame and fault for the history (perhaps, you would like that them was more). Progress of Russia in gains is NOT the reason for shame. In the past very many countries were engaged in gains, it is normal. But for some reason you want to blame always for all sins Russia, but not Germany or Britain, or Austro-Hungary, for example. That causes irritation and misunderstanding in Russians.

    Oh, translator…I hope that you understood me.

    • The translation is terrible and mostly not understable for me, but I think you are referring to the fact that pre-1920, half of present state of Poland was Soviet’s

      Well, yes, It was territory of Russia becouse of the partition of the Poland 123 years back. BUT Poland is more than 1000 years of Country and so you can’t really reffer to invading the Poland as “reclaiming territory”

      By the way, one thing is the fact that Staling was Hitler’s friend for 2 years, but another is that Soviets were no better than Natzis in killing civilians. most of my family back in early 40′s were exported on Syberia, and less then half of them returned at all. Some of them were on Syberia to early 50′s. Those who weren’t exported, had to either hide or were executed as they were Polish officers, in mass graves that are still being discovered to this day.

      Im not saying we are good and you are bad, I’m saying that everyone has to learn from history, to avoid making same mistakes in the future. If the uncomfortable history is forgotten, whole picture is blurred. For example, in todays schools in Germany and Austria, the third reich people are referred as “natzis” not as “Germans, Austriachs etc”, while concentration camps are called ‘Polish concentartion camps” as these were mostly on territory of Poland.

      So after 70 years, Soviets are liberators, natzi were from space and Polish killed all the Jews.

      • “The translation is terrible”

        All right i keep in mind this=)

        Эх, нужно было все-таки завоевать весь мир и не пытаться учить другие языки, ахах.

        “By the way, one thing is the fact that Staling was Hitler’s friend for 2 years”

        It is more than two years. The Weimar republic and the Soviet Russia – since the 1920th years. Two countries outcasts adjusted cooperation. And this cooperation didn’t disappear after 1933.

        “most of my family back in early 40′s were exported on Syberia, and less then half of them returned at all”
        I regret. Are you from Poland?

      • I’m not gonna jump in defense of the soviet invasion of Poland in 1939, but the fact remains that, in the immediate post-WWI era, Poland conveniently tried to take as much territory as possible from her neighbours, be it the short-lived Ukrainian independent state, Russia, Czecoslovakia (sp?), Hungary and what not.
        The whole area was such a mess that the French had to step in to calm everyone down. Before even the polish-soviet war.

        • I would like to make it clear for you, as im not suprised you arent familiar with history of poland, you are not obligated to be though.
          “Poland conveniently tried to take as much territory as possible from her neighbours”
          I would rather say poland took ALL its territory from her neighbours after ww1, becase before and during ww1 there was NO poland on the world map at all ;),due to partitions of poland (123 years before that, its territory was split for russia, prussia and austr-hungary empire)
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rzeczpospolita_Rozbiory_3.png
          My point is poles tried, back then, to recreate polish country, and only way to do so, was to take back lands were polish inhabitants.

    • ““Returning their historical territories” – why not? Eventually, Poland got the Western Ukraine and the Western Belarus after the Soviet-Polish war in 1920 when Poles the first attacked Ukraine. The Soviet Russia then lost war after a failure of approach to Warsaw. Though resources allowed to be at war further, the inflaming Tambov revolt in the back at Bolsheviks didn’t allow to make it.

      Thus, the Western Ukraine is NOT territories of Poland. And initially Ukrainian nationalists struggled with Poles, but not with “bloody communists”.”

      You sir are wrong. Kresy Wschodnie (Eastern Borderlands) were Polish lands since the Polish-Lithuanian Union, for several centuries. It was the Bolsheviks and Soviets who attacked weak freshly-independent Poland trying to conquer the whole Europe and turn it into communist international state. Polish army achieved to stop the Red Plague and force Soviets back to the east. Ukrainian nationalists didn’t “struggle with Poles”. In the time of Polish-Bolshevik war Poland was cooperating with Ukrainians who wanted to break free from communist occupation.

      “And here still that, Europeans: with the section of Poland we look at this history very much differently. Understand that bourgeois Poland HATED the Soviet Union. And the Soviet Russia HATED bourgeois Poland. In fact they were enemies. Therefore very ridiculously to read any articles and texts of Europeans \Americans about poor unfortunate Poland which in concentration camps destroyed after the Soviet-Polish war in 1920 some thousands of soldiers of Red Army, and later in the Polish camps opponents of the Polish power sat. And also made plans of war against the Soviet Russia.

      Moreover, old centuries-old opposition between Russians and Poles revived. And again there had to be only someone one. Old hatred, old offenses. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth against the Russian Empire. Well and that that now they were called in a different.”

      It was not “bourgeois Poland”. It was the whole Polish society who remembered the time when Poland was not on maps, occupied by Russia, Germany and Austria, for over a century. Poles knew what Russia is capable of and knew what it wants. Communists were good for noone, they killed the poor and the rich equally.

      “Special friendship of Bolsheviks with nazis, by the way, never was, though there was a cooperation. Its scales were not really big, though historians still argue on it.”

      Maybe there was no friendship between Bolsheviks and Nazis, but Soviets used Nazi extermination techniques very well, murdering over 20’000 Polish prisoners and burying them in forests hoping that the crime never sees the light of day.

      “PS Finally. Dear Europeans, understand: in Russia there aren’t enough people who test shame and fault for the history (perhaps, you would like that them was more). Progress of Russia in gains is NOT the reason for shame. In the past very many countries were engaged in gains, it is normal. But for some reason you want to blame always for all sins Russia, but not Germany or Britain, or Austro-Hungary, for example. That causes irritation and misunderstanding in Russians.”

      Maybe it’s because Russia tried to gain OUR territory, and moved their armies into Europe? When was Russia last attacked apart from WWII? Napoleon in XIX century? Oh, I remember, Poland in XVII century conquered Russia, occupied Moskow for 2 years and had Polish prince Władysław be Tsar of Russia. Maybe that’s what you’re Russians so butthurt about, that now you have to show everybody how stronk your country is, to heal the old wounds?

      • en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Soviet_War

        Poland attacked the first to Ukraine. The red army was protected. And only after crossing of the border of Poland the Red army became an aggressor.

        The Ukrainian nationalists very much didn’t love Poles and battled against them. One of episodes of this fight – murder of the Polish minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs Peratsky (Bronisław Wilhelm Pieracki) in 1934. The Polish counterintelligence very much watched closely a situation in the Western Ukraine.

        “It was not “bourgeois Poland”. It was the whole Polish society who remembered the time when Poland was not on maps, occupied by Russia, Germany and Austria, for over a century. Poles knew what Russia is capable of and knew what it wants. Communists were good for noone, they killed the poor and the rich equally.”

        It is unimportant. Poland was the enemy of the Soviet Russia, and the Soviet Russia was the enemy of Poland. Therefore plaints of Europeans about poor unfortunate Poland are unclear Russian.

        “Maybe it’s because Russia tried to gain OUR territory, and moved their armies into Europe? When was Russia last attacked apart from WWII? Napoleon in XIX century? Oh, I remember, Poland in XVII century conquered Russia, occupied Moskow for 2 years and had Polish prince Władysław be Tsar of Russia. Maybe that’s what you’re Russians so butthurt about, that now you have to show everybody how stronk your country is, to heal the old wounds?”

        Listen, I simply don’t understand, about what you. Such old events don’t cause Russian’s butthurt. It is a question of history 20 centure. And in the hisory 20th century already nobody will leave from butthurt)).

        • You have problems with logic in your brains: first it’s “historical borders” then it’s “only 20th century matters”.

          And when it comes to historical borders, Russian ones are much farther east. Even Crimea wasn’t Russian, it was Tatar and still should be.

          • We can reach the most ancient times. To Tatars there lived Scythians. It will infinitely proceed =).

            Also don’t justify: Poland the first intruded on the territory of Ukraine in 1919-1920, but to you tell differently.

            Conversation went about it.

            • Poland was in process of regaining independence after WW1 and reforming the shape of its territory, so the reason you Russians like so much “protecting minorities” certainly does apply.
              You can as well say that there should be no Poland then and it was only a bastard of Versailles.

              Oh, and Lviv was Polish city for like a 1000years, with not even minority but ethnic majority then. It wasn’t ever Ukrainian and if Poland behave the same way Russia does now, there would already be expeditionary force now, “protecting” the minority that still lives there.

              • The fact remains: Poland the first attacked the Western Ukraine and the Western Belarus in 1919. Poland – an aggressor. The red Army was protected, then took the offensive. Everything is simple, don’t justify.

                “Oh, and Lviv was Polish city for like a 1000years”

                the Ukrainian nationalists just tested powerful butthurt from your words=)

                • You must be retarded. Ukraine was attacked by the Soviets first, not by Poland. Ukrainians were actually allied with Poland. Polish attack was merely preemptive, Poles knew about planned Soviet invasion.

                • Just as i said, Poland had no right to exist and “attacked” even earlier by the very fact of coming again into existence.

                  Why not agree with that one?

            • You are wrong sir, after the rebirth of poland that came after the end of ww1, polish eastern border wasnt clear, there were territorys where both poles and ukrainians lived ie, Lviv (polish Lwow) and surroundings, i would like to mention that they were part of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth before the partitions (not any ukrainian country) And it wasnt like polish army “intruded”, it was created by the citzens of Lwow.

    • It is a little more than just about gain. Stalin was one of the vilest criminals to have ever lived. Worse than Hitler if you compare cold numbers. Add to that fact the long oppression of a large number of countries, countries which are dealing to this day with the communist heritage of stupidity and exploitation. You can say the West colonised, that African countries are still dealing with that as well, but that would be nothing but the classical Russian response: if your history is bad, we are allowed to have a bad history as well. Well, it doesn’t. Own up to your evils and you can move on. Continue to defend the undefensible, and you will continue to take flak for it. Remember, this is not (just) about unlawful gain, this is about crimes against humanity. Crimes perpetrated against the common Russian people as well. Even as a student of history, specialised in Russia and Eastern Europe, it still baffles me how Russians continue to idolise what can only be described as the darkest days of Russian history.

      • “Worse than Hitler if you compare cold numbers”

        comparison in numbers – the same instrument of promotion, as well as all the rest. I already gave numbers below. Of course I know that comparisons can be done differently and I don’t apply for absolute truth. It creates broad lands for manipulations.

        Understand here that: communists dreamed of the ideal world. They were idealists, people of belief. At least communists of old style, we will tell so. Their attempts to build the ideal world led to huge blood and it is a lesson for all of us. But, unlike nazis, communists never destroyed Russians or Poles only that they are Russians or Poles, for example. Here in what a difference.

      • PS To idolize is the wrong word in this case.

        In general, all this is very difficult and it is necessary very long and to explain a lot of things very in detail that you got at least chance to understand me.

      • Russian propaganda at it’s best. Silencing the free media and any minority party in opposition. political corruption at all levels of the government and the people who turn a blind eye to history in the name of nationalism. Every country is not perfect and every country has made mistakes but a country where the people ignore their past mistakes as it never happened and never learn from it is saddening…

        • Each country pursues own interests. So was always. Therefore silly to explain to Russians that the Soviet Union was the most blood-thirsty country. Aggressive – yes. But, it develop history differently, already Soviet Russia could be the victim.

          PS And by the way I discussed history, instead of modern policy

    • Oh yes, denying the truth, twisting the fact, claiming that Soviets did nothing wrong. We heard that bullshit already you former ally of Hitler. Fucking commies ruined half of the Europe, dragged us back to the Russian medieval industry. Dont you dare to tell us that you were in right when you invaded Poland side by side with the second worst criminal of the WW2.

        • Can you tell me, my vodka soaked friend, where i wrote anything about Europe doing everything correctly? I did not wrote that, because it ain’t truth, read you own post once more please, i like the part where you claim that invading other states is normal and the one where you write that you were not friends with uncle Hitty. Funny, isn’t it?

          • I don’t drink alcoholic beverages.

            It was simply the joke. And here you turned into shit and passed to one insults. Shame on you.

            yes, it is normal. The set of the countries in the history was invading. USA still. You, Europeans, obediently approve it.

            • I dont believe that you don’t drink vodka, you Russians have it, like, on tap, do you? I am sorry if Vodka is insult in the Russia.

              Anyway, do we approve it? I was against war in Afghanistan, or Iraq, but now? Okay, tell me when IS come to your house to talk about Allah. Oh or should we invade America, to do it the “russian” way?

    • To Askold Kr: Your translation was good enough to get the gist of what you were saying. Well done. :)

      Hmm… I get very wary when people start bringing up “taking back a people’s traditional lands.” There are a lot of issues with this concept, and if you ever really try to implement it, you have a huge mess of history to sort through before you can even begin to decide who should get what. For example, how far back in history should you go? Where do you start? What happens when the first people to own that particular part of land no longer exist, who gets it then? The people who killed them/took their spot? Most places around the world go back not 50 years, not 100 years, not even 1,000 years, but millennia. And no one has perfect records of anything that far back in time. Also, another issue is, what do you do with the people that have made that land their home in the mean time?

      But Poland and Ukraine are not alone in this issue. Just look at Israel! Should the Jews get their traditional homeland back, or should the Arabs and the Palestinians who have made that land their home while the Jews were in exile keep it? Its not the fault of the Jews that the Romans forced them into diaspora 2,000 years ago, but neither can you really blame the Arabs and the Palestinians for filling the void they left. Hopefully eventually both sides could find a peaceful alternative and live together.

      Another case that many Westerners conveniently forget is the fate of the Native Americans. The Native Americans, not just in the lands that eventually came to be the USA, but also in the rest of North America and all of South America were either wiped out or driven from their lands by first the Spanish, Portuguese, and French, then the English, and later the new independent nations that grew out of the various colonies (yes, including the USA). But THIS is a perfect example of how impossibly messy the task of returning lands to the original owners would be. Imagine for a moment, if you will, what would happen if suddenly the world demanded that the United States returned all of its land to the original Native American owners. First of all, many of the original Native American tribes are completely gone, for various reasons (wiped out, intermarried with colonists, etc.) What do you do with all of their land? Second, at what point in history do you chose to restore the geopolitical boundaries of the Native American tribes and nations to? These tribes and nations, just like every other nation and people in the world, had wars and disputes and fought over land, and their borders were constantly changing long before the Europeans ever set foot on the Americas. You would never be able to make every Native American tribe satisfied with a boundary decision, because at one point or another, their particular nation or tribe owned more land than they were given back. Also, last but not least, what would you do with all of the non-Native Americans who live in the USA now? Where could you possibly put them that no one would complain about them taking their land? Such an attempt at restoring traditional lands to their original owners would never work out.

      So what does this have to do with 20th century Poland and 21st century Ukraine?Well, all of those issues with Native American repatriation also apply to trying to restore, say, Russia’s original lands, or Poland, or Ukraine, without even bringing up such things as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, or any other such conglomerate.

      ONE LAST POINT: To all you who keep insisting that what happened hundreds or even thousands of years prior to a particular point in history has no bearing on what choices were made and what events happened, you could not be more wrong. The COMPLETE history of a land/place/people ALWAYS has effects what happens, you cannot take any event out of context if you truly wish to understand what really happened.

      • Holy hell, did I just write a thesis paper in the middle of SS’s reply log?? :P

        Sorry ’bout that, SS…

    • Бедненький ты наш… Русским очень удобно не понимать всё что идёт не на их лад. И раздражаться их национальная черта. Пока пол Европы почти два года воевало с Гитлером, они в засос с ним целовались и делили независимые государства. Речь идёт не только о Польше. И если верить русским, то и второй мировой войны вроде как не было. Война только в 1941 началась. Отечественная. Собственная. Ну да, после неё там ещё венгров и чехов поубивали. Но в этом, наверно, Австро-Венгрия виновата а не непонятливые и всем на свете раздраженные русские.

      • >пол Европы почти два года воевало с Гитлером
        >они в засос с ним целовались
        Лол, западенцы всё-таки на всю голову ебанутые в этой стране. Это просто какой-то пиздец. Мутация русского быдла видимо вызывает умственную отсталость и приверженность либеральным идеям.

  8. The problem at this point is for me that the russians are not honest to their own history. They only pick the “good” stuff out and try to masking the bad stuff. SS mentioned some of it.
    I have the impression that a lot of people think the best way of a strong russia ist the way of the “good old times”. Where they where feared, had a lof of other countries occupied and a superpower besides the USA. And in that light they exploit their own past. No word about the german-russian relationship bevor the war. No word about the invasion of poland. No word about the millions of russians that the powerhungry and neurotic Stalin killed in his time as ruler of the nation. No word about the occupations after the war. There is only this victory, the strengh of the army, the power of will and the glorious motherland. This is too one-sided in my option, and it is very dangerous when you look at current events. Too much progaganda everywhere (even in the west) in this really unnecessary war in the Ukraine.

    • You are mistaken. In textbooks of history of modern Russia all these events are described. But we aren’t obliged to concentrate absolutely not completely and entirely on a negative side of our history as it is done by Europeans and Americans

      To “No word about the millions of russians that the powerhungry and neurotic Stalin killed in his time as ruler of the nation” – listen, I am negative to Stalin. But Europe wallowed in promotion very deeply. For comparison: For all the time of board of Stalin (1929-1953) through concentration camps passed about 10-12 million Soviet citizens. It was shot about 1 million. There are still losses from the Holodomor (from which suffered not only one Ukraine as Ukrainians) and during war, of course, but now like to tell this a bit different. Nazis with 1941 on 1944 destroyed 15.6 million civilians of the Soviet Russia. I don’t acquit Stalin, simply understand – nazis for the Soviet Russia were much more the big evil, than Bolsheviks.

          • “No. But Europeans and Americans expose everything as if Stalin is many times worse than Hitler or someone else. It is a lie.”

            Keep telling yourself that. Stalin WAS worse than Hitler.

          • I guess we consider them both as a mad murderers, the problem is, that you think of stalin as a national hero… feeiling sorry for you, as most of his victims were russians…

            • Stalin is not a national hero.

              You see that you want to see.

              He is the head of the Soviet Union with 1929 up to 1953, no more, not less.

          • I never said the Stalin is worse that Hitler. And i don´t think we should go down and compare numbers. Both dictators where brutal, conscienceless and have a lot of blood on their hands. For different reasons. But it is universally accepted that Hitler was a terrible mistake, and there ist nearly anything positive about that period of time. When i look at russia and how they adore Stalin till this day for mostly only the “good” stuff he done without really debate the “dark side” of that era then it feels wrong for me. I miss that honest debate about him and his era, because you need to see the past in all facets to understand and learn for the future. Nikita Chruschtschow started that process 1956, but at the moment i mostly see a kind of “romanticization” of that era by some parts of the russia society for their own goals. And i think this is the wrong way to go.

            • Different points of view. No more.

              About Wargaming (their reasons), about this video:

              Whether you like it or not, but red army with support of allies and guerrillas destroyed the Third Reich. The nazi nightmare ended. Here about what the speech and video. And the SS is concentrated on other though he and can be understood.

      • And you are playing with numbers while saying at the same time that SU was a victim of this war. I’d agree that SU citizens were – but they were victims of those two criminalists equally. And, if one wasn’t a bit faster, the other would have pulled the same trick a year later.

    • “No word about the german-russian relationship bevor the war. No word about the invasion of Poland.”
      No word of UK and France selling Czechoslovakia and Poland to Germany for few months of peace. No word of UK and USA selling eastern Europe to USSR after the war.
      What was that you said about picking the good and masking the bad?

      • Dou you really expect that i wrote down all of the history of the second world war? All the mistakes form everyone involved in that fucking war? Then we sit here until our end of life for sure. I´m really have no interest to mask here anything, why should i? For me it was an dark time, a lot of mistakes where made from all sides. Really all sides. I gave some examples why i think you should be more critical with that Stalin era, that means not that i´m not aware of the mistakes from the others. That´s all. And i´m never wrote more in that post.

        • Yeah, I know you didn’t mention those. That’s the fucking point! Nobody ever does. It’s always Russian-hating bullshit for no reason in the comment section.

  9. A few things:
    -Soviet union, France and UK were to sign a mutual assistance treaty. France was ready but UK was like “meh…”. USSR was in the need of an ally so the whole Europe doesn’t team up against Revolution. When after months nothing came of France and UK, Ribbentrop came with a deal to which France and UK didn’t respond. This treaty was another consequence of the passivity of the West.
    -Poland. Well they hate each other and Poland used to bully Russia. It’s sad but its almost normal.
    -As for soldiers themselves I truly think they wanted to liberate Europe once they realized what Nazis brought to their villages, friends and family. Political thoughts aren’t the same tough.

    Otherwise Finland war and bad decisions plus bloodbath are obviously not evoked. Russian historians stronk

    • Russians today still revere the likes of Lenin and Stalin as heroes. They don’t see communism the same way Germans today see Nazism. That’s why pro-Russian seperatists in eastern Ukraine are sometimes seen waving Soviet flags. The Russians always argue, where would the western Allies be were it not for the Soviets taking Berlin?

      Communism may be a plague to some, but to Russia it’s something they will always be proud of.

  12. Well, it’s sad to see that these guys didn’t learn a thing from a century of hate and intolerance, nationalism, racism and war.

  13. Status Quo with borders in Europe is basis for peace.
    There will be always many reasons to take territories of other nations – but it will be at the cost of peace.
    So sad that imperial ambitions of few fuel war machine that destroys lives of many.

  14. “not only to protect their motherland from fascism, but to liberate Europe from it” sounds a bit… silly
    What exactly sounds silly hear? Soviet soldiers did in the end liberate Europe from fascism and captured Berlin.

    It’s really funny how people HATEHATEHATE aggressors, while even in their private lives most of the people would be happy to be aggressive whenever they are able. Well, that’s weak people’s fate, I guess. Hail the military power of Western Europe, which were the most succesfull in NOT fighting nazis for almost 5 years.

    • Word liberatet sounds silly to me, as in fact one occupation changed for another one. German nazists or Russian commies, whats the diference? People who still remember that period claim so called “liberation” was far more bloodthirsty.

      • >German nazists or commie russians
        Well, there is a huge difference. I don’t know where to start. Nazis are ultra-right, pro-corporation policies, racial/eugenic theoery and pracice. The nature of German Nazies is reactionary.
        Russian commies are ultra-left, nationalization policy (no private property), ideology of uber-nationalism (actions to decrease the significance of race/ethnicity). The nature of Russian Communism is revolutionary.
        Well, the one common thing is being autocracies, I guess. Well, also both killed people and started wars. But that doesn’t differ them from any powerful Western Europe country or USA.

      • But the second occupation lasted more long and many citizens of Eastern Europe sincerely believed in creation of a socialism and communism.

  15. Dear SS,

    Why do you have to post your negative(yes, negative) comments about anything coming from WGRU? Why can’t you just post video? Why manipulating people into very inflaming discussion? What purpose its serves? Are you really that angry, frustrated? Filled with hate?
    This is not healthy, this is not very constructive. Nothing good is coming out of it.

    • Two reasons:

      1) Controversy generates traffic. Traffic equals money. He wants fucking money.
      2) He is a Czech, he is butthurt and this is his personal hatred blog masked with some translations from Russian sites.

      If someone started blog with the translations but without his biased personal bullshit, I would switch right away. Right now I am voting by not giving a fucking cent to him as I don’t support political bullshit on a gaming site.

      No wonder Wargaming couldn’t give a shit about EU crowd. Pleasing the butthurt crowd of “OMG Russia stronk raped my ass 70 years ago, still hurts” is pointless. I love it that Belorussian made game calls it how it is: money are in Russian market with Asia and US second. Fuck the EU. Whine a lot, no profit from them.

    • Simple, WG clearly and openly declared many times that it is being “patriotic” on RU market and biased that way because of purely economic reasons. SS is only giving counterbalance here – it just even the scales (not pulling them further the other way, plain equilibrum).

  16. I’ve read some of the comments above and really can’t comprehend one thing.
    Why anything “bad”, that USSR made should be ashamed of, every Russian should cry at nights and beat his head against the wall out of guilt feelings and should ask every Western Person (and Polack) for excuse.
    And what if something “bad” was made by the “civilized world”? Well, it’s just mistakes of the past, so stop fucking using “you are lynching negroes” argument.
    Why exactly? Becasue you can kil negroes and Russians can’t?

  17. @silentstalker:

    You do prefer to forget about the treaty of Munich, and the English-French effort to turn Hitler’s war machine against the young Soviet Union, before the Molotov Ribbentrop pact, IN WHICH THE SU AND GERMANY WERE NOT ALLIES BUT NON AGGRESORS BETWEEN EACH OTHER.
    Of course, this pact is considered a soviet victory against allied conspiracy, and bought precious time for the SU to get ready for the oncoming onslaught. You also forget that before the treaty of munich, the SU were allied with Czechoslovakia, but polish, hungarian and romanian governments denied a corridor for the SU to provide military aid to the Czechs.
    You also forget that France was allied to the Czechs as well, but it was neglected, after giving “land and water” to Hitler’s demands for anexation (his cause was the Sudite Germans in Slovakia…)
    You must also consider the Sino-Soviet border disputes, forcing a part of the SU army to stay mobilized in the Far East. Considering all this, a bravo to Stalin’s foreplanning and diplomacy, even with the devil

    • Red Army coming to help? This one is a pure gem, if You consider the collective experience of Humanity with Russian “help”.

  18. Lol Silentstalker and his biased “stronk” opinion. Much stupid, so lol.

    US not only was friends with Hitler, it had a Nazi party active alongside with just about every rich person saying Nazi’s are the future. Took 2 fucking years for them to join the war (4 if you count from 1939).

    England… lol… Chamberlain said Germans are our friends and we should let them have Europe because we want peace .

    Czech Republic? Who the fuck knows, they were unimportant then as they are now. Likely best friends with Hitler.

    • Retarded comments like these make me wish that the US would have bombed the Soviet Union to ashes immediately after WW2

      Russia is one of the biggest plagues on this planet – pity about their culture and art

        • It’s not about nationality, it’s about political & economical doctrine (guess who exactly killed & exiled people based on those views)

          My country could have done very well without a cursed half a century of bloody communism

        • And then collapses due to the economy, leaving all parts in ruin, if thats not enough that plague destroyed, negated more than 1000 years of culture, art, hostory in russia ;), again – feeling sorry for you, russian brothers…

  19. to be clear I am not Russian… but I am sure that Soviet Union won WWII. They deserve to be proud what they did.

    @SS great job opening this box again and again… (sarcasm). I agree with your comment: “I will do on FTR what I can.” But can you please consider to have separate section in FTR dedicated for your personal political comments. This section will be separate from tanks (as most of us – your fans, are interested in tanks only).
    Thanks

  20. Frank, i urge you again to ban on sight every NON-English posters for technical reasons, given the goal of this blog.
    Anyone wants to spread bullshit? Fine, but make an effort and do it in English!