Building the AMX-30 Branch

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Hello everyone,

as you probably already realized, the French tree is possibly the most neglected tree in World of Tanks. Of course, there is a reason for that and we’ll get to that, but for now, we have some good news: the AMX-30 branch (or “branch”, you’ll see) is scheduled to come in 2015, as was previously confirmed by Storm.

So, the will to improve the French is there, but the real question is: is it even possible?

There is a reason the French branch was neglected. The reason is: “insufficient data”. While it might seem odd to you, considering the French were very active in their armor research after the war, there are very few candidates for the hightier medium tank positions – and by very few, I mean none at all. Let’s have a look at the branch itself then.

NewFrenchTankTree-2

This above is the first (and last) concept of the AMX-30 branch, as it was disclosed two years ago. Most AMX-30 branch player proposals incorporate this sort of line in them. I asked around how viable this concept is now, two years later and the answer was – not at all. This will simply not happen. The main reasons for that is that G1P on tier 7 would have to be overbuffed and that AMX-45 is a heavy tank, not a medium. As a “bonus”, very little is known about it and generally noone really likes this kind of setup.

In order to build a fullblown branch, we’d have to look for alternatives for tier 7-8 and there are unfortunately none, at least nothing that would be well known or fitting (ironically, there is a SHITLOAD of candidates for tier 4-6 – apart from the missing Somua S35, there were many G program projects such as the G1L, G1P and such). The only thing that comes to my mind as an alternative would be to “redesignate” the AMX tank destroyer project to a medium tank, but as you can imagine, noone is really keen on doing that either (besides, WG already apparently has another plans for that project).

post-846212-0-47062000-1344887711

To sum it up, there is practically no way how to build the AMX-30 branch. So, what I think will happen is this: AMX-13/90 line will be prolonged to tier 10 as such: AMX-13/75, AMX-13/90, AMX-30 Prototype and AMX-30. Wargaming could actually avoid the awkward “prototype” by introducing AMX-13/105 on tier 9 – as a medium tank (!), to “cheat” the “no tier 9 LT” demand. Of course, it might sound a bit strange, but consider this: some armies (notably the Swiss) considered the AMX-13 to be a tank destroyer, not a light tank, so a little “re-designation” is not that unhistorical. But that’s of course not likely.

The AMX-30 prototype itself – there were several stages and – unlike with the Leopard prototype, Wargaming has enough material to create at least one, specifically the AMX-30A. Some time ago, pictures were published on FTR of the only surviving prototype at Saumur, but there are other stages as well, for example this one – this is the first prototype:

3e8d863f351144789152933516e966ed

This is the second prototype:

22712_AMX_30_2nd_Prototype_1

They all have 105mm guns apparently so that might be a problem, but overall, I do believe there is enough graphical material to created the prototype AMX-30 correctly. As for the AMX-30B on tier 10, I guess we could get the 0-series or 1-series vehicle, that looks like this (again, photos by Dr.Pikouz):

IMG_1055

Unfortunately, the cold truth is that unlike with the British (or German and Soviet) vehicles, Wargaming does not have anyone “digging” the archives for cool stuff or running around, measuring vehicles’ armor and has to rely on books, photographs and internet info. If someone was interested in digging some French archives, Wargaming would certainly find a way to compensate him for the trouble – in case you are such a person, do write me via e-mail, please – or use the contact form here in the blog. I can arrange a contact.

53 thoughts on “Building the AMX-30 Branch”

      • This is a TD and not a medium. Then again, as SS said, Amx 13′s were considered TD’s by some armies. But it would sound kind of dumb, given that the name means “Tank hunter”. It would kinda be like having a panzer jaeger as a heavy tank.

        As for the AMX13-105, Wargaming clearly said “no, thanks”. And I think it wasn’t used by the french army, but was an export version.

        The G1L on tier 7 is indeed retarded, as it was a competitive project with the G1 that we have in game. AFAIK, there were 5 (6?) versions of the G1 tank, and at least three are different enough to deserve to be in game.

        The problem, as you said, is that, while France has enough tanks to fill a dozen of tier 1 to 6 branches, it gets harder later on. Partly because there are very few people doing research on this topic outside of France (and nobody within WG) and because the army is secretive. No way you’ll find as many prototypes and paper projects as there is in the Soviet or American branch. I for one, can’t see the AMX13′s leading to anything else than the Batchat. Despite being AMX’s, they have little in common with the AMX 30, while they share a generic design with the Batchat.

        • Best of all, Bat. Chat. 25t was a competition project to AMX 13, they’re just meant to be in one branch while Lorri 40t… not so much.

          As for the AMX 13 105, should they reclassify it as medium, the problem would be removed. The deal was that it would have light tank camo bonus and a respectable fire power with 105 mm gun. Too much even for tier IX but since it would be a medium… Bat Chat. 25t is also a light tank in the skin of a medium tank. It would be nothing new to have another light tank as medium. ALSO you have Chi-Ha both Chinese (light) and Japanese (medium) . I see no issue here either.

          Oh the GL1′s , those could fill all tier V-VI any day, there are so many.

          • If you really want a bunch of tier 4s you can always just use the initial version of many of the prototypes with their 47mm guns instead of the later 75mms.

            Not that this is necessary, there are more than enough tier 4 candidates as it is.

            https://i.imgur.com/WyQT9xM.png

            In the tech tree that I had drawn up, you could perhaps see an initial model of the G1L at tier 3 as a light tank with a mediocre 47mm SA 35, poor mobility, and excellent sloped armor. Could go at tier 4, but that would require the improved 450 horsepower engine that only arrived with the final models.

        • I don’t think WG’s lack of urge is due to a secretive army (btw Russians have been able to copy the Concorde while in development so you see how intelligence-proof are French borders). It’s more due to the lack of enthusiastic ppl for the job, I’ve heard that there is more than 12k plans in AMX’s archive at disposal however no one has been through all of them yet and WG only made actually built tanks for the French line.
          I can not however confirm that all of this is true

          • The Tu-144 was significantly different from the Concorde, it was hardly copying.

  2. Oh, thank you SS! Divines bless your kind heart for making this article! I wish I knew french and could dig the french archives :( It’s a shame… It’s difficult to find someone who knows French fluently and like tanks alot :(

    MUH FRENCHIES ;__;

    • Thank jesus am not the only one who wants more French tanks I love my French tanks MORE.

      • I think that they should fix something… Lorr 40t does not have same playstyle as amx 13 90 and batchat.. So i would put in one branch AMX 13 90, amx 13 105 and then batchat.. In second on tier 9 would be lorr 40t and on tier 10 tank like 40t.. That would be nice

  3. @Silentstalker and other members: what do you think of the structure of the French tree we reconstructed ?
    http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/316995-larbre-francais/

    I know, there are still some stuff that might look awkward inside (like the two lines of tier 2, like the tier 11 & 12, but it results from past discussions between the French members due to the amount of material), but except that, especially on the part tiers 3 to 10, what is your opinion ?

    We are planning to make individual pages for each of these tanks to see what modules we have and were information is still missing.

    • It’s all nice and fun but do you have the pictures/schematics/blueprints/armor values/ documents on all those tanks ?

      You know, the tree looks cool to me (dat tier XII tho) but I don’t even recognize half the names in it.

      • No. All french tanks are made by private companies that are very secretive about their designs. Even 40 years later. And that is, when blueprints aren’t simply lost somewhere.

        Many of the later tier tanks are paper projects too, like the AMX 65 and 70 or Batchat 35 (upweighted planned versions of the AMX 50 and Batchat 25).

        There are several people interested in tanks in France (hence why this tree appeared on the french forum, it’s based off dozens of articles from specialized magazines), but would they be interested in working with WG? Worse, is WG even caring about french tanks anymore?

        • Seems they would be if a person willing to cooperate appears. Though as always, it’s not the WG that is going to look for that person. I think that WG should at least leave an official info about seeking such person.

        • I don’t really see them being paper tanks being major obstacles. There are many other paper tanks in the game, and these at least were proposed.

    • I doubt you will find any information for some of those.

      If the Super B is the planned evolution of the FCM F1, then it is a mere idea. The army expected to have to build ultra-heavy tanks but (thank god), never got to it. Such a tank would have to be completely designed by WG. There was no blueprint, no nothing, only a few unrealistic specifications (135mm front howitzer, 90 mm gun on the main turret, 115 tons max with a 100mm armor all around -lol-…)
      I doubt there’s any info on the AMX 65t too given that it was, there again, a heavier version of the 50, that never went past the “hey, let’s make this tank” stage.

      How many of those tanks are real, and how many are fakes born on the internet? I couldn’t say. The research is not nearly as professional as when it comes to Soviet or German tanks (and even those have their fair share of fakes).

      • Presently the tanks in this tree are coming from books, specialized journals or blueprints on French tanks.

        No bullshit born on Internet (like the uchronia 1940 : La France continue).

        But if you have any information to bring please come and help us :-)

        • Please start with translating into English and providing scans and possibly something more in the way of schemes/blueprints/armor.

  4. Does this mean the French LT line will branch off of the ’90 to both the Lorraine 40 t and the AMX-30 prot./AMX 13 105?

    • Maybe once they add AMX 13 105, they’d get rid of Lorri, it doesn’t fit any how in the branch and let 13 105 go to Bat Chat while 13 90 will lead to both 13 105 and AMX 30 proto. Then again where would they put Lorri ? Maybe make it a premium ? Though SS hinted numerous times that premium auto-loader won’t happen. I don’t know, it would be a shame to remove it from the game even if it is terribly misfitted in current tech tree. The tank has potential it just has very different play style when compared to anything below it and Bat Chat 25t

      • they could maybe make the lorraine a premium tank with a weaker engine and prototype gun and worse handeling

        • And the 90mm gun with 170mm pen (amx 13 90 gun). Lorr could be a really shitty premium, i dont see why they wouldnt put it.

  6. If we are on serious stuff, 7tier and 9tier are not worth attention – because they are useless besides randoms and they can as well be goldsinks. I was hoping WG will bring some usefullness to those tiers with stronkhold, but no dice…

    While i’d like to see some interesting and enjoyable tanks, i’d like to see some use for them too (oh, and NO pve). For now, my enthusiasm for those tiers (and for full trees in consequece) is vanishing. I think it’s time we should get more loud about that.

    • There’s nothing to be loud about. Tier VII and IX are perfectly fine, I feel sad about you that you can’t make them work for you.

      • I think he means they may be good tanks to play but they are only ‘competitive’ in random battles, other game modes cap at even tiers.

        That being said tier 7 and 9 hold may favorite tanks in the game.

        • Exactly. There are many interesting tanks on 7 and 9tiers already – but they are useless besides randoms. I’d love to use them in some team-oriented modes, but i simply can’t – and i want such modes for these tiers added.
          So, while tanks themselves could be interesting (and to a certain extent are), they are not interesting enough because there is not enough use for them ingame – and because of that i’m not interested in more of them added on these tiers.

  7. Maybe AMX13 with chaffee or FL11 turret will have a place? Because we need more AMX13 than T54.

    • In one of WG’s old tech trees, the 2nd MT line went as such

      (Teching out of AMX 40) Lorraine G1L > AMX 13 Chaffee/FL-11 > Chasseur de Char > AMX-45 > AMX-30 Proto > AMX-30

  8. and why not somthing like that:
    13 75 -> 13 90 -> 13 105 -> batchat
    AMX-45 -> (nerfed) lorraine 40t in TVIII -> amx 30 prot -> amx 30

    You just have to make the lorraine different from the 50 100, even if the two tanks are pretty similar. And you keep the continuity in the amx 13 line with the 13 105 considered as a medium.

    Oh, and i’m a french military but i don’t think you can ask to the company in charge of developing theses vehicules to simply give their prints to wargaming…

  9. AMX 40->ELC->AMX 12t->AMX 13 75->AMX 13 90->AMX 13 105->BatChat25t

    AMX 40->Lorr G1L->AMX 13 FL11->AMX-45(???)->Lorr 40t->AMX 30 PT->AMX 30

    AMX-45 was inspired by the german Panther. While it appeared as a heavy, the designation could have been medium if they maintained the german classification at that time.

    • I think another issue is WG want to have distinct autoloader branches, just dipping in and out of autoloaders throughout a single line isn’t going to happen, I’m pretty sure that was one of the problems with the second proposed heavy line, and as it turns out, the medium line too.
      All AMX13s, 40t, Batchat etc need to stay in one line, following that rule, it only leaves a couple of options, odd vehicles tapped off of existing branches (like the mess the German tree is becoming) or pulling prototypes out of WGs ass.

  11. As a couple of others have said, the AMX Chasseur de Chars is a tank destroyer by designation. Instead, I personally think the AMX 45 would be suitable as the tier 8 medium tank, with it’s 22.2HP/T and similar armor to the FCM 50T (they even have the same turret & gun).

    P.S. The AMX 45 is not a heavy; it is clearly designated on it’s blueprint as a “char moyen”, or medium tank:

    http://i.imgur.com/mmkexKI.jpg

    • Slakrrrrr probably also knows this by now, but for others, WG used this design image as a reference for the development of the E 50 Ausf. M

    • If I recall it was due to there not being enough demand at the time, and now they have to remodel them in HD for one.

  13. I don’t get these obsessions with making every branch go to tier 10, every branch has to have a clear line from 1-10 meaning no skips e.g 6 skips to 8, and finally capping the game at tier 10.

    Screw it if the french have no viable tier 7 candidate for the Amx 30 line because I would rather grind 150k xp at tier 6 rather than have to drive some imaginary dog in tier 7.

  15. What about the M4A4 FL 10, M-50, and M-51? While it is true they were used by the Israelis and the Arabs they still had the guns and turrets designed in France, and that was the main change for them. Unless if some sort of Middle East tech tree arrives then putting them into the French tree would be the most logical, and that would stretch from tier 6-8 (M-50 at tier 6, M4A4 Fl-10 at tier 7, and M-51 at tier 8). Or you could shuffle the M4A4 FL-10 somewhere else and just have the AMX 45 at tier 7; which was designated as a Char Moyen so it was a medium tank project. That would solve WG’s concerns over having autoloaders/manual loaders inter-sped, although the Chi-ri does set a precedent.

    I had done a sort of drawing up which was based on some work by the Europeans and the Americans, with some of my own additions. Just ignore the wheeled line for now.

    https://i.imgur.com/WyQT9xM.png

  16. Do I smell the intention making the AMX30 a possible future campaign reward?

    SilentS. was the T110E6 scrapped? Or its still not propperly balanced….

    • AMX 30 is not really akin to any of the other campaign awards which are mostly specialized. It has to be as part of the end of a second medium branch, that is the most logical use for it in the French line.

  18. as far as the new system goes about sucideing etc. before anything can be said for or against it it should be tryed out to see how it fairs on a personal note i miss arty being more accurate they messed it up in my oppion when they made m7 priest a tier 3 instead of tier 4