Wargaming Recognizes Kosovo As a Country

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Hello everyone,

since I recieved like 5 e-mails about this matter, I decided to have a look. Basically, what happened: in recent South East Championship portal post, Wargaming wrote a list of countries, that can participate in that particular tournament, dedicated to – as the name suggests – SE Europe. The list is as such:

Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Kosovo, Malta, Montenegro, Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia, Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Turkey

In the corresponding forum thread, players took issues with that particular post. For one, earlier, there was “Macedonia” listed instead of the current “Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia”. What is more interesting is that there is Kosovo listed amongst the names of the states.

Kosovo is a “country”, recognized only partially by the UN – Russia for example does not acknowledge its existence. As you can imagine, this did not please the Serbian players too much. The forum thread then got filled with WG staff, defending their decision.

Edit: removed controversial part of the post after sound advice

150 thoughts on “Wargaming Recognizes Kosovo As a Country”

    • You are incredibly ignorant here since Kosovo is historical homeland of serbians

      Just avoid topics you blatantly ignore.

      • “Kosovo is historical homeland of serbians” – I laugh my ass off….

        With this argument you can say: “Serbia is historical homeland of italians” as it was conquered by the Romans for centuries.
        And I never got the hype around the battle of Kosovo – where the serbs have been hammered by albanians – and serbs are a kind of proud of it? WTF :)

        I’m swiss and I’m very proud that our government was with the first to acknowledge Kosovo as an independent nation.
        The serbs really have a problem with their history – and europe has not forgotten that Serbia has started the balkan wars in the 90′s and the war crimes committed by serbs haven’t been forgotten too.

        So from my point of view it’s time to shut up for serbs and taking care of their own business – and Kosovo is sure not a part of it.

  5. Kosovo is KOSOVO
    Crimea is CRIMEA
    Russia is Stolen from the Czar! Return Russia to its rightfull Monarchy!

    or shall i just mind my own business and keep out of politics as we ALL should in a gaming forum!! ;)

    • ehm, haven’t you noticed how close Putin is to the orthodox church? they have already accepted him as the new Russian Czar.

      • Bring back Rasputin.
        Just stick Ras in front of Putin’s name!

        Ra Ra RAS-Putin!

        There lived a certain man in Russia long ago
        He was big and strong, in his eyes a flaming glow
        Most people looked at him with terror and with fear
        But to Moscow chicks he was such a lovely dear
        He could preach the bible like a preacher
        Full of ecstasy and fire
        But he also was the kind of teacher
        Women would desire

        RA RA RAS-PUTIN
        Lover of the Russian queen
        There was a cat that really was gone
        RA RA RAS-PUTIN
        Russia’s greatest love machine
        It was a shame how he carried on

        He ruled the Russian land and never mind the Czar
        But the kazachok he danced really wunderbar
        In all affairs of state he was the man to please
        But he was real great when he had a girl to squeeze
        For the queen he was no wheeler dealer
        Though she’d heard the things he’d done
        She believed he was a holy healer
        Who would heal her son

        RA RA RASPUTIN
        Lover of the Russian queen
        There was a cat that really was gone
        RA RA RASPUTIN
        Russia’s greatest love machine
        It was a shame how he carried on

        [Spoken:]
        But when his drinking and lusting and his hunger
        for power became known to more and more people,
        the demands to do something about this outrageous
        man became louder and louder.
        Hey Hey Hey Hey Hey Hey repeat….

        “This man’s just got to go!” declared his enemies
        But the ladies begged “Don’t you try to do it, please”
        No doubt this Rasputin had lots of hidden charms
        Though he was a brute they just fell into his arms
        Then one night some men of higher standing
        Set a trap, they’re not to blame
        “Come to visit us” they kept demanding
        And he really came.

        RA RA RASPUTIN
        Lover of the Russian queen
        They put some poison into his wine
        RA RA RASPUTIN
        Russia’s greatest love machine
        He drank it all and he said “I feel fine”

        RA RA RASPUTIN
        Lover of the Russian queen
        They didn’t quit, they wanted his head
        RA RA RASPUTIN
        Russia’s greatest love machine
        And so they shot him till he was dead

        [Spoken:] Oh, those Russians…

  7. It has nothing to do with recognition of a country or not.
    It is a competition based on geographical location, from which countries, regions call whatever you want can send selected number of teams to compete with each other.

    • it it siginificant if your main market is the former Soviet block, where the sympathy towards Serbs is prevailing (and strong ties with Russia too). I do not know if this decision was well think over by WG, but I am really suprised that they have made such move. You really do not make angry a large part f your playerbase for no reason, so there has to be one. I just do not see it.

        • He did not say Yugoslavia was part, just theres sympathy.

          However I’m not sure if it was decided by WG. I do understand it can bother people and was unfortunate to be displayed like that. However I dont think russian ever read an ESL competition for the SOUTH-EAST European region. and that is the main part in my opinion: south east european competition with all teams (on puprose I did not use the word country) from that geographical region.

          The list is just there to clarify from where can they enter, too bad it caused that much trouble.

      • @wana: It’s not a large playerbase – it’s just a minority of morons as they exist everywhere and therefore also with serbs.

  9. Maybe SS should look at the ethnic map of Kosovo and then say is it or not Serbia.
    It’s almost the same saying in 1914:
    Meh

    Czech is Austria

    • Maybe cropanzer should look at ethnic map of Krajina region of croatia before ethnic cleansing and say it is part of croatia. Pot calling the kettle black. Hypocrites should be quiet.

  10. :According to the Kosovo in Figures 2005 Survey of the Statistical Office of Kosovo,[168][169][170] Kosovo’s total population is estimated between 1.9 and 2.2 million with the following ethnic composition: Albanians 92%, Serbs 4%, Bosniaks and Gorans 2%, Turks 1%, Roma 1%. CIA World Factbook estimates the following ratio: 88% Albanians, 8% Kosovo Serbs and 4% other ethnic groups.[171]”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo#Demographics

    In one post you say Crimea is not Russia, on the other you say Kosovo is Serbia.
    Isn’t there a contradiction?

    “In 1989, Milošević, employing a mix of intimidation and political manoeuvring, drastically reduced Kosovo’s special autonomous status within Serbia and started cultural oppression of the ethnic Albanian population.[77] Kosovo Albanians responded with a non-violent separatist movement, employing widespread civil disobedience and creation of parallel structures in education, medical care, and taxation, with the ultimate goal of achieving the independence of Kosovo.[78]

    On 2 July 1990 a majority of members of the Kosovo Assembly passed a resolution declaring the Republic of Kosova within the Yugoslav Federation; in September 1991 (after the dissolution of the Assembly by Serbia) they passed a Constitution which would have given the Republic effective sovereignty but which might have also been compatible with a Yugoslav confederation if this had existed; in September 1992 they declared the Republic a sovereign and independent state.[79]”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosovo_War

  12. SS, you should stick to tank stuff, leave politics alone. I guess you are not anyhow specially involved in Kosovo so you, as almost everybody, knows nothing about their matter. Excactly as said above – depends on point of view. Czech is Austria (so Austrians can whenever come and claim Czech lands), Belgium is Netherlands, Netherlands is Spain, Spain is Morocco… where are we supposed to stop? In African geological depressions where a mankind is supposed to originate? Isn’t actually whole Europe in Africa?

    • STFU noob, this post is important, because it shows how WG policy is changing. Kosovo is a sensitive matter for Serbs, and as they are BFF with Russians, also for them, so, such switch is interesting, and yes, Kosovo is Serbian, always was, and always will be.
      Your comparisions are beyond stupid.

      • It is irrelevant since referring to Kosovo as a country means absolutely nothing in terms of its sovereignty. Kosovo is a country regardless of what anyone on here says. As part of Serbia it had its own assembly etc and was a political entity. The question is whether the country of Kosovo is a constituent part of the sovereign state of Serbia (as it was before declaring independence) or is an independent sovereign state in its own right. And wargaming sure as hell made no reference to that. This whole thing is based off SS either not knowing what “country” means or deliberately trying to create a wargaming fail.

      • And what if I tell you that I think Kosovo is Albanian…. ;)

        and now let the flamewar begin…

        irony off – ffs who cares which historical land belongs to which administrative state? Kosovo is historical land the same way Burgundy, Silesia or Aragon is. And nothing changes if it belongs to Serbia, Yugoslavia, Albania or Martians. Kosovo is not Serbia, Kosovo is Kosovo, these days as a part of Serbia. Few centuries ahead it can be quite different as it was few centuries ago.

        I just find funny that Serbians say that Kosovo is indivisible part of Serbia. Why the Kosovo people don’t think the same (at least poll showed so). Don’t they actually feel uneasy within Serbia?

      • Srebrenica, Mladic and Karasic are also sensitive matters for anyone who has to deal with Serbia.

        Egbert2020 in the forum claimed Slobodan Milosevic was never convincted of any crimes. Well, neither was Adolf.

  14. Indeed, it’s your blog and ofc you should say and post what you want – but surely you knew many Serbs are butthurt over this topic, makes me wonder though – nice *Kappa* ? :P

  15. Nothing to see here really. Being a country does not mean being a sovereign state, and i seriously doubt anything in the competition refers to sovereign states. Even without being recognised as a sovereign state Kosovo can be a country no problem.

    The UN does recognise Kosovo as a country, it is only its status as a sovereign state that is disputed.

    For example the countries that make up the UK are not sovereign states, nor are the overseas territories reamaining from the various European empires. The USSR was made up of countries. Places like Kurdistan are countries without full sovereignty as well.

    A country can be pretty much anywhere that has any form of self governance and political identity. People could refer to the states of for example the Russian Federation as countries and they would not be wrong, and the various SSR that made up the USSR were most certainly countries.

    A nation, country or state can be sovereign, but it is not required of any of them.

  16. SS-I think you should close the comments section on this topic, too many idiots around here.

    • This, a lot of ignorant retards came here to troll. But i guess they have a right to express their ignorance.

  17. Since everyone here don’t include history in arguments I have a question? If Kosovo as country was legally separated from Serbia, does that mean that Catalonia should as well be allowed to separate? Also, Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina (that actually live in entity that acts like separate country)? Also Crimea in Ukraine?

    Why is it allowed for one country to be cut in pieces but not to others?

    I, personally think that Kosovo is taken by barely non lethal force since Albanians forced their why in Kosovo for years. Ones bought land legally others through political pressure because in that time any kind of nationalism was brutally silenced so in the moment Albanians became majority in that land even though the same land was a cradle of country we know as Serbia. Ok, there are more of them, they want to separate, they got Western help… West approves. It’s done. The End.

    In the meantime, Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina want absolutely the same thing! They live in entity called Republic of Srpska which legally takes 49% of B&H territory and 90% of them want separate country but are artificially forced to stay in that country and under penalty of war forced by Bosniaks/Muslims and supported by the West. Why can’t they get their own country? They don’t want war, they had enough of war.

    The same thing is with Catalonia! 90% of them wants to separate and now I read that Spanish government is pressing charges against that leader of separation.

    Russians make majority in Crimea. They don’t want to be a part of Ukraine. Why aren’t they let to live separated?

    Answer me these questions with backed up arguments and then I might see the reason why one is allowed and other isn’t…

    • Here’s an advice – next time you want to retain a territory, be kind to people living there.

      Regarding other separatist regions you mentioned – those who legally expressed their will (like Catalonia) should be able to secede, while those who did not popularily support succession should not be forced to secede (like Crimea).

      Kosovo seemed to be happy to live in Yugoslavia for a century or so, until some serb politicians fucked it up, thus a popular drive to secede was started and since everyone has right to self-determination, Kosovo decided to become independent.

      • @Janis Zalitis – Be kind to people there? That’s like you take a person into your home but in time he self-invites his whole family into your home and all of the sudden he wants you out of your home because there are more of them than there are of you. Would you respond kindly to that people?

        You haven’t answered about Serbs in B&H. Should they be allowed to separate? 49% of the country wants out.

          • @Ridvan Sadriu – If that’s all you can say, then you shouldn’t attend this discussion because question here is why are ones allowed to separate but others aren’t.

            • ill be short, in 1912 in one shity conference in paris or london i cant remember it well they decided to chop down albanian territory like this
              north- montenegro
              kosovo to serbia
              south to greece
              east to macedonia
              if ur intrested to rly know it all try to make research on that conference and u see how it happen and why did it happen :)

                • ur rly a dickhead srsly
                  who said it didnt i said on 1912 they cut part of albanian territory
                  how come u cant understand that much
                  “they decided to chop down albanian territory like this” where is the part that albania didnt exist here ?

                • @Ridvan Sadriu Why with the insults? I thought we were having a debate… I read the same thing you told me to read and there was a part of the Albanian independence after which Albania became the country we know today. And the Albania we know today didn’t exist before 28 November 1912. and was recognized by the world on 29 July 1913. Serbia, on the other hand existed long before that (something like 10 centuries before). We could debate who was first but none of us was present at the time and history tend to be forged by the strongest ones so I take everything anyone can say with a great dose of distrust.

        • Albanians arrived and were a majority a century before Milosevic.
          After some time passes, you can no longer request people to leave, because it is essentially their homeland – they have been born there.

          Are you trying to defend Milosevic’s genocide?

          • @Janis Zalitis – Genocide?? People these days use that word as if they’re saying “good morning”. I’m not defending Milosevic, far from it but a part of your comment “Albanians arrived and were a majority a century before Milosevic.” makes me think you want to accept part of history that only suits your arguments. And to answer in the same matter, Serbs had a country on that territory 10 centuries before Albanian nation even existed! How about that? And before Serbs, there were Romans and before Romans there was someone else so, if you want to follow known history, then they all should move and give a land to Italy?! Btw, as far as I’m informed, no one wanted Albanians to leave, they just refused to give them more territory so they took it by force and when all hell broke out, NATO came and bombed Belgrade. Why? Who knows…

            • It sounds like you are getting your kool-aid from Serbian state TV.
              1. Genocide of Milosevic regime is a fact, established by International Court
              2. The Albanians first appear in the historical record in Byzantine sources of the 11th century. Most historians conclude that the Albanians are descendants of populations of the prehistoric Balkans, such as the Illyrians, Dacians or Thracians. Serbs immigrated to Balkans during 5th-7th centuries, so more than two thousand years AFTER historical ancestors of Albanians.

              • As far as I know, Milosevic was never sentenced for any of the crimes he was charged because he died before the trial could end. Maybe he would be sentenced, maybe he wouldn’t be. We’ll never know. We may assume that he would be sentenced but then again, Seselj was held 4297 days if I’m not wrong and they are releasing him because the can’t prove anything against him. Whole that trial was a big embarrassment to judicial system as it proved to be a joke. Anything a Hague has to say in future won’t have any weight whatsoever.
                As for history part, you said it your self, Albanians appeared very early, but not as Albanians but as tribes tat predated any of the people that live there. Albania as country and Albanians as nation we know today came much later (around WWI if I’m not mistaken) while Serbia was existed, stopped existing when Ottoman empire came and then existed again and all before Albania, so, legally, that land “belonged” to Serbia.

                Ok, I agree that Albanians as majority took their right to separate but that right should have every nation on this planet but it doesn’t…

    • I agree with all your examples and am also disguted by double standards in world politics.

      I recently visited B&H cpouple times and I think everyone is waiting for the end of this failed experiment of implementing a federal-canton-entity system which noone really wants. They don’t want war, just live the way they want to.

    • If Catalans want their independence and show it through a referendum, then yes Catalonia should become its very own country. Just like Britany or Corsica in France should become countries if they expressed such desire. Or Crimea or East Ukraine. You can’t deny the people the right to have their own governance if they feel like the country they belong to no longer represents them. And I think you’ll find the western critics of the Crimea/Ukraine thing is not that the people there can’t decide what they want for themselves, but rather the way it was done.
      But of course you’ll disagree and blabber about Serbia stronk and remove kebab so I don’t know why I even bother.

      • @perkele – Do you even read these comments? First part was very helpful to this discussion but a part “But of course you’ll disagree and blabber about Serbia stronk and remove kebab so I don’t know why I even bother.” makes no sense because no one here said that either Serbia or Albania are right or wrong. We’re trying to understand why is acceptable by the world for Serbia to lose a part of territory but it’s not acceptable for Spain, Ukraine, Bosnia and Herzegovina and now France. I forgot about that, thanks for mentioning it.

        Is it because EU has all the military power to do whatever it wants without regard of what people want? Whoever stands against EU and the West must be crushed? After all the facts we gathered here, that’s the only logical explanation… and it’s the wrong one because no empire stands forever. Tomorrow a wind could change its direction because Eastern Sun rises over awakened bear. Tomorrow a new history could be written…

  20. KOSOVO IS SERBIA,and always will be one way or another.If UN didnt recognize it why should WG???

    • The UN recognises Kosovo as a country, WG treats Kosovo like a country. The UN doesn’t recognise Kosovo as a sovereign state, WG didn’t say anything about sovereignty anywhere.

      Where is the problem.

  21. Hey SS, imagine that the Kosovo matter is a delicate thing for us Romanians as well.

    We are one of the few EU/NATO countries that did NOT recognize Kosovo, mainly due to “autonomy” claims from a very vocal hungarian minority here, in order to avoid a precedent.

    Just throwing this in here

    • Exactly, this is also one aspect. Just the way a successful Scottish independence could have start an avalanche of similar votings (Catalonia…).

      • Well that kinda worked the other way since Catalonia is probably more likely to force independence now that Scotland voted no because they are so annoyed at not getting to have their say whereas before they would probably have waited to see whether Scotland fail cascaded/was let in the EU etc which would have taken years.

        • You might be right… either way could be oil on fire. In this case, we should prepare for more of such votings, there are many similar situations in Europe.

  22. Well… actually, the schizophrenia is there concerning both countries (Kosovo and Macedonia), since some countries recognized them, some not.
    E.g. Hungary recognized Macedonia as such, so here officially it is Macedonia, WITHOUT the stupid ‘FYRO’-prefix. And afaik, many EU countries recognized Kosovo as such. Historical facts have nothing to do with todays real life reality.

    WG can’t please everyone, there is no middle way, there will be ones pissed off with either choices.

    (In parentheses: everyone has the right to call himself/themselves whatever they want. It is called the right to self-determination.)

    My opinion: natonalism is one of the most cancerous idea ever invented. It is like cheap booze, people stop thinking and start acting like zombies.

  23. First of all I am Albanian and as such, a bit biased.

    But, IMO, Serbs and the rest of the world (that thinks otherwise) needs to accept that Kosovo as a country is a reality, no matter how much you declare “Kosovo is Serbia”.

    The sooner we accept the reality the easier will be our countries’ integration to the European family. The final aim is us all to join Europe and be united for the common good (even if politics will still screw us).

    I would also like to suggest to SS not to post political content. Yes, it is your blog, but whether you like it or not this is also a very public blog so you still have a lot of responsibilities.

    Lets keep the fight within the game while still having fun.

    • The way you are using Serbian legitimate territory for criminal activities like drug and weapons smuggling to rest of the Europe, human organs trafficking and rest will give you huge amount of credibility.Not a day passes than someone`s house is burned down, a hand grenade gets thrown at someone just for being non-Albanian. All this without formal investigation, which is backed up by corrupted Europeran institutions on Serbian southern province.

      Once European Union sees thru your agenda, you could wish for “integration”, using occupied part of another territory as basis point.

      • Can you deny Srebrenica while you’re here? Because your posts on the WG forum left a lot to be desired in your one-sided posting rampage.

    • Hi I am Serbian and I live on territory of Kosovo i Metohija and I agree with you on the matter of not posting political content its just negative popularity, people come here to argue and no good will come from it.
      On the other hand please understand both sides, it serious matter and it is stirring up a lot of emotions.
      Thanks

      • So you think that land where Kosovo is should not be on the map or be under Serbia? How can you say that when Kosovo is a country for 6 years now?

        Wake up.

  24. So, when is Putin going to ‘not’ support pro-Russian rebels that will suddenly appear in Belarus?

  25. The Treaty of Versailles was instrumental in the creation of the League of Nations (the fore runner to the United Nations). The nations involved signed up to the treaty on the basis of fourteen points. To afford “mutual guarantees of political independence and territorial integrity to great and small states alike”. Just supposing that they had signed up to a fifteenth point “that the League (UN) will not recognise any country as a soveign state if it does not have a population of at least 8 million people”. Just think how many wars, and lives could have been saved by that simple amendment to the treaty/charter.

    • Heh, this way the EU would have only cc. half as many member states as it has now… :D 10-million countries (Portugal, Sweden, Hungary, Belgium…) are considered middle-sized. :-)

    • Well that’s Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Luxembourg, Monaco, the Vatican, Singapore, Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia fucked then.

      Daft idea, what did Iceland ever do to you ?

      • Czech Rep. Slovakia, Slovenia… Austria is almost borderline… Are you sure with that 8 million?

    • Yeah, because ww2 was down to the little countries…..

      League of nations was a catastrophic disaster, it didn’t recognise the USSR and the USA didn’t join. Japan, Germnay and Italy all ignored it. Its charter was never invoked and no country was stopped from invading another because of it. Cutting out the smaller countries would just have made it even more of a lame duck.

      And why would the little countries care less anyway, UN membership is meaningless unless everyone buys into it and clearly peoples of less than 8 million are not going to buy into something that completely disenfranchises them.

      The wars would just end up being bigger and more widespread. If you need 8 million people to get UN recognition that would clearly be a reason for say Albania to be actively involved in the Yugoslav wars since you know it would need those ethnic Albanians from Kosovo and Bosnia to be a “real” country.

    • Well.. you should wait till tomorrow since the time difference could delay the storm in this case…

  28. Like it or not, the state of Kosovo does exist. How can Serbs say Kosovo is Serbia when you have no Serb authority inside Kosovo?

    Serbs are day-dreaming and wont stop doing so.

    The 78 days of Bombing did not happen for no reason. Largest US base in Europe is in Kosovo. US has made this land independent and tha’s it.

    Hope WG puts Albania flag and also the Kosovo flag too.

    Peace!!

    • De facto that state exist, it’s administered by Kosovan government and Serbs has no control under it. So which country Kosovar Albanians should represent in competition, Serbia? Albania? I think no one wants that, It’s better when they have their own representation.

  29. I am from Dardania and I feel sad how politics have ruined my country over millenniums, and also have changed my name from Dardania to Kosova!

    As a World of Tanks player, I’ve paid more than 1200 Euros so far and if WarGaming wouldn’t Recognise the people who live in the territory of Dardania (Kosova) it would be a shame and very rude.

    World of Tanks is suppose to be a friendly game, accepting all nationalities, despite conflicts.

    I am not going to argue here with Serbian (Russian) people, as we’ve been arguing since their arrival on the 6th Century and we haven’t solved our problems yet. Having said that, the history of human kind will always be repeated. Idiot people will always find a way to be idiot and complain or argue about something that doesn’t make sense.

    As an Illyrian, and Dardanian, I know you Serbian (Russian) people have stolen 85% of my land. The bare existence of you in Balkan is entirely on Dardanian land, yet you deny my existence?

    I haven’t denied your origin existence that you’re Russian and I accepted your Russian language in Balkan in 6th century as a friend, but differences arose with time and conflicts crossed our path, hence the dispute over land.

    Whether you are Russian (Serbian people) living in Balkan, you should be peaceful no matter where you live. This Earth belongs to GOD, not to Nationalists.
    If you ask me, I’d fight criminals of all races and Cold Idiots who kill people, and not other people who want to live in peace.

    Good Day SS!

    • WG, much like any other for-profit company, wants max profits, not max niceness. If Russians boycott WoT over Kosovogate, WG will quickly affirm the non-existence of independent Kosovo, which would have relatively minor repercussions in comparison.

    • WG dont give a shit some times, they add the flag and then they remove if if the russians dont like it. WG is the best example of a hyper capitalist company even worse than companies that exisit in the west believe it or not.

  30. I’ll try to bring a lawyer’s view on the subect

    It seems that a lot of comments are biased and rely more on emotions than hard facts. This is understandable as international law is not that clear on the subject as it needs to reconcile 2 opposing rights: self determination and sovereignty.

    I’ll spare you the latin jargon but in essence what is needed for self determination is at the very least: 1/ a people 2/ an existing and undisputed territory 3/ a clear willingness for independance.

    In the case of Kosovo (same with Crimea) it was an autonomous province with a clearly defined territory and was existing for a long enough time. This is not the case for the Serbian republic of Bosnia as this is a very recent creation. Based on this principle I think it is very possible that Serbs from Bosnia will be able to claim their independance in 20 or 30 years.

    Of course something might be “legal” but might not happen in reality because of the balance of powers. For instance Serbia was an independant country and then it was absorbed by the Ottoman Empire and ceased to exist for almost 500 years. When Serbia regained their independence they argued they had one people (or nation) the serbs, one territory (what had been conquered by the ottoman empire) and it was clear they wanted to be independent. While it was legal it only became possible when the Ottoman Empire was weak enough to allow it.

    With Kosovo that’s the same thing a vast majority of the population was Albanian, the territory was clearly defined and had working institutions for a long time and the Kosovars/Albanians wanted to become independent. It also only became possible when Serbia was weak enough to allow it.

    The simple possession of a territory is not a sufficient claim, so Russia saying Ukraine is the cradle of Russia, Serbia saying Kosovo is the cradle of Serbia or France saying we used to own Belgium are not enough to get rights to possess the territory.

    For Catalonia there is no clear willingness to become independent (1.6m people voted for against a potential voting population of 5.4m so about 30%).

    What makes the situation worse is that all countries and I mean ALL are twisting the principles all the time to match their own interests which is supported by the medias and is only adding fuel to the fire and contributes to hatred generation which is very bad.

    For instance Russia refused to recognize the indepenence of Kosovo but did pretty much the same thing in Crimea. This hypocritical attitude is only too common and was used by the west many times before during the end of the colonial period.

    • I’m afraid all of this nationalist business is about emotions. We’re all alopecic apes, with a common ancestor ~200 000 years ago (0.0044% of Earth’s age), attached to a small speck of dust sitting in a vast cosmos, but what’s really important is what I call the fenced off plot of land I live on.

  31. I’m a Serb from Serbia. Kosovo was a part of Serbia, but it’s currently under U.S. occupation. There is American military base in Kosovo, making it an American state. Kosovo is a part of U.S.A. and it has nothing to do with Serbia, Albania or any other shit country from Balkans…

    • Yeah, and you guys didn’t butcher Muslim population in ex-Yugoslavia in 90′s.

      Say it, come on, don’t hold your feelings.

  32. Well,I fear this is my first and final post here,since after 15k battles and arguably a lot of fun,I ‘ll have to quit playing after WGs decision to go along and name Kosovo a country..

    I suppose it is just a business for them,certainly it’s not “all about having fun”,”it’s just a game” and similar childish statements that were used to defend their decision..

    So,no more gold for me,no more bucks for ya WG..Sometimes profit can be incompatible with political correctness,and even if it does not it is simply a matter of principle and ethics..

    PS I am not Serb,or even east european,but unfortunately I had witnessed first hand the atrocities committed in the name of that region’s “freedom”..

    Good battles for ya all..Cheers

    • Who cares. They’re bastards. Bastards of gaming. I mean WG…

      Besides, Balkans are known for wars since late 1800′s… And things are still going pretty hot, even today.

    • Don’t be dense, wargaming never said Kosovo was a country, and even if they had that is not the same as saying it is a sovereign state.

      ESL made the rules, not wargaming, and nowhere is there a judgment of sovereignty made in any case.

      Its not wargamings list.

      Nowhere does it refer to countries.

      Even if it had, being a country is not the same as being a sovereign entity, Kosovo was a country even when it was part of Serbia. There are hundreds of countries in the world which are not independent or sovereign.

  36. I was there 15-16 years ago as part of the NATO forces, they will always kill each other because they have yet to develop far from the old Feudal way of thinking from the 18th century. And that goes for ALL of them but especially the Serbs…..brutish and thuggish people, no class with very few exceptions.

  37. My GOD!!!!!!

    Look how Serbs want to put the whole world to sleep and think that Kosovo is Serbia. Just look at all the Serbs trying to manipulate the entire world in thinking Kosovo is Serbia.

    Serbs, get over it. Wake up and live your life without Kosovo just like you don’t have Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro or Macedonia. Try to keep Vojvodina as it can get very tight. Thy can leave you too.

    I do not like Serbs or Russians because they are killing their own Slavic people. Serbs and Russians in one way or another are like cancer to the Slavic people. It’s a fact you can’t ignore.

    Hasta la vista Serbia.

  39. It’s amazing how such little things create a big shitstorm. GJ people, especially the butcher Serbs.

  41. *slow clap*

    Really love all those “Entire nationality is trash” statements. Maybe Europe is due for another Denazification, eh?

    • Try going there with a gun and try to stop the fucktards killing each other…..then come back to me and tell me why they are all wonderful, the whole area is still in the Middle Ages but with Guns…and has been like that since the Middle Ages.

    • Now it is Former Yugoslavia. Somehow you have to keep the Serbs down. Now WG has said to the Serbs yes, SANTA does exist and you will get you presents.

      Serbia is removed as well.

      See how evil and ugly Serbs are?

      They want to drag the whole world in the darkness just like they are living it.

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  47. One would think after Mladic and Karasic the Serbs would pipe down on the whole subject. This is like Germany making demands for Danzig…