Hello everyone,
just like in the case of the previous post, I usually don’t deal with World of Warplanes stuff – that game is dead and everyone knows it. The basic idea behind it was that unlike tanks, the USA have a huge tradition in warplanes and thus the game just has to be successful there, right?
Well, wrong.
Internally, Wargaming considers World of Warplanes a failed project not worth advertising anymore and the words of gunlion, NA community manager, confirm that in a way. Here’s what he recently wrote on US forums. Bold parts are by me, it’s the last part of the post, that is important.
I’ve been quoted in this thread regarding ideas about feasible strategies to create longterm population increases, and I stand by what I said about cross-promotional incentives. What we would see is a brief burst of players coming over to earn Premium/Gold, and then leaving after the event. Certainly, you may get some who stick around, but it historically has not been on a level that makes a noticeable change. And this is just speaking to the audiences of each game; there are some players who enjoy Tanks, there are some players who enjoy Planes, there are some that enjoy both; but those who typically like one or the other do so because of the unique gameplay each provides, and offering carrot-on-a-stick rewards isn’t conductive to making lasting gains in population. And it is also not as easy as flipping a switch, there would be a lot of coordination involved from a lot of departments to properly set this up, prepare for messaging, support, etc. Then you have to factor in effect on economy, and all these things. So, you look at all of that, and ask, “What would the gains be here? Are they equal to the effort?”
And I don’t want anyone to interpret that as meaning that effort is not being spent in support of World of Warplanes in NA. A lot of people have also said, “Gunlion is busy on Warships these days.” I will share with you, last week some of the WoWP developers were here, and we spent the week planning what is coming up for World of Warplanes. There will be some things in there that will do some good to help fill out battles, and give players tools to run scrims or training room events. Obviously there are things we cannot talk about yet, but it was an opportunity to meet and discuss World of Warplanes and activities we can do for NA this year.
Regarding advertising, we advertise when there is a reason to. A lot of people ask, “Why have we not been advertising? Wouldn’t advertising fix the population?” I will be completely candid with you; assume that you were a completely new player. Assume that, within the past few months, post update 1.6, you saw an ad for World of Warplanes and it interested you enough to register and download the game. At that time, you would have had the ‘sandbox’ protection, but consider overall what your experience might have been at that time with the queue. What is the feasibility that you would have remained a member of the community? Given the cost of advertising, what do you think the return would have been at that point? So previously, it did not make sense to advertise at the time. We are going to continue supporting World of Warplanes in NA.
Obviously, he can’t admit failure openly, he’s just a CM, not a developer. Hmm, I wonder how long will it take before they pull the plug…
No surprise WoWP failed horribly when trying to compete with a flight sim game Developer. You got to say, Plane wise, War Thunder is Spot on (except the stupid BR system of course).
WOWP has mabye 1 year left, if not sooner,WG will just pull the plug, it can’t be very profitable(it probably breaks even)
but as for WT, it’s only Real flaw is the BR system, that everyone knows is fucking stupid(recently jingles made a pretty good point about the thunderbolt/Zero, which was dead on)
it’s fun in tanks, it’s fun in planes. going by WOWS once Gijian release ships, it’s probably going to win ships to.
So far:
WG:0-1-2
Gijain: 1-1-0
(win-Tie-Loss)
War thunder tanks certainly isn’t a fail, and in all honesty is just as good as World of tank’s. you can’t really say either one of them is better than the other, since they are completely different games.
True. War Thunder tanks is actually quite good despite all the comparison, but largely In Realistic and especially Simulator . People say WT tanks is bad because they play arcade, which is quite awful in my opinion, but in the realistic market it is actually quite good.
As you said, both WG and Gaijn face their own problems, but I guess competition is only a good thing. TBH I enjoy both universe’s games, though i play WoT more than GF, and reverse is also true for others (although I’d never play WoWp, I do play WS, so it’s a draw XD).
BTW, salute to that CM, really brave of him/her to talk about topic like this.
What a shitty opinion. If success is based on number of players and popularity, how the hell can you say Gaijin is equal on tanks? And don’t give “still beta” bs, how long has it been now? Nice assumption on the WoWs considering Gaijin hasn’t even started with their ships. What a retard.
gr8 b8 m8 i r8 0/8
You could alteast spell GAIJIN properly lol…
In my opinion, WT has plenty more wrong with it than just the BR system. If anything, I feel that the BR system is actually a great idea that has been implemented terribly, but that’s another discussion.
Either way, WG didn’t actually have to one-up WT when they made WoWP. Even if it wasn’t that good, I feel like there would have been plenty of people who would have played it because of things like the unified premium accounts and not having to put up with Gaijin’s BS (especially when it comes to balancing). WG actually managed to make a game so bad that it’s a complete flop despite the inherent advantages they have verses Gaijin.
Maybe if it falls through they’ll put some serious thought into completely revamping the game.
…or maybe they’ll just let it die. I could care less at this point.
How much less could you care?
I mean I could care less about the game.
I do care about shitting on it at any given opportunity (because it’s fun and WG deserves it for the massive blunder they made in creating this game).
Did Gaijin fix the damage model? When I tried it a year or two ago, planes would either soak up hundreds of hits (or even several direct hits by fucking rockets) with no effect or be torn to shreds by a single bullet.
So you played on first open beta, i think 2 years ago, mostly USA and Honorubrunise . We had a at least 4 flying and damage mode major changes, with even more between. You should check this now, its entirely different.
the DM models are fairly good right now, only real thing that sticks out is the bombers being rather fragile, but every other class of plane feels pretty good in amount of damage they can take now
Gaijin Entertainment is many things, but they most certainly are NOT a flight-sim developer. Prior to War Thunder all air combat games they made were arcade trash intended primarily for consoles. Despite the annoyingly persistent rumor that they developed the entire IL-2 series, that was in fact 1C:Maddox Games. Gaijin only did IL2: Birds of Prey, which was, as stated above, a consolized arcade fest.
All that said, War Thunder is obviously better than WoWP, but Gaijin isn’t any more capable of pulling off a realistic flight-sim than Wargaming is. It’s proof enough that almost the entire hardcore World War II flight-sim community avoids War Thunder like the plague.
Anyone even remotely interested in planes had to take one look at the WoWp gameplay. The physics are just awful, it’s basically levitating tanks. Without proper flight model a game like this WILL be a failure.
WT comes with a lot of retarded things but their planes are both challenging and rewarding. The only reason I don’t play it is the fact I’m not really into propeller aircraft, but it’s a no brainer to decide between WT and WoWp for anyone with an interest.
Yep, Warthunder is much better than WOWP. One reason is having hitpoints in planes in just failure because if you want to attack an enemy aircraft, sometimes you won’t be able to stay on his tail until you get all their HP. In WT, at least you have a chance to kill the aircraft or if it is the other way around, you get the chance to live.
PS: Since you said you don’t like prop aircraft, war thunder has jets at rank 5 or if you like modern flight sims with modern jets, a good one is DCS World
I know that WT has jets as well, but I don’t really feel like investing a lot of my time to get a few planes I’m actually interested in playing.
Yeah, the hitpoints system is hurting WoWp, but WT has it too. It’s just mostly module hp that is hidden away instead of full aircraft, therefore every fight is basically unpredictable, so it keeps the game interesting. You never know whether you get the engine, set enemy on fire, kill the pilot or simply shred the plane to pieces.
Thanks for the tip about the DCS though, didn’t even realise that there’s a game like this, might check it out. Cheers.
I just tried to play a few games in WoWp a couple of days ago. There was a new 1.7 update and I’ve started the game just in hopes of getting 1 day of premium account extra as a compensation for downtime.
Well, the free 1 day of premium did not happen, but since I’ve started it, I’ve decided to give it a go.
And it’s still as horrible as it was before. The graphics are ok. Sounds are so-so, but not terribly ear-hurting. But gameplay simply SUCKS.
First of all, I have a very hard time saying what actually constitutes as “skill” in this game. Either you are shot down in seconds (it is virtually impossible to get rid of an enemy once he’s on your tail, no matter how good you fly) or you shoot the enemy in the same manner. Enemy tail gunners bleed your health no matter what you do. Tier difference is horrible. For example – tier IV airplane is about twice as powerful as tier III vehicle. So if you end up on the bottom on the list, you are dead meat – no matter what you do. There is nowhere to hide, so you will be spotted and shot by more powerful enemies. There is an extreme penalty for losing the game. Imagine getting 400 XP for winning and 18 XP for losing – ALL THE TIME.
Generally – still waste of time. That’s why nobody plays it – when I tried it, there were 50-70 people in the queue on all tiers…
the problem about player skill is that it is much more decisive then in WoT. you can clearly see that from statistics how good and bad players are far apart and you also see it in a game when a lone experienced player takes out 5 noobs on his own. general problem seems to be that majority of players don’t have a clue how to fly their planes.
but yeah, the game has many flaws especially compared to WT. but i dislike WT as well because it fails in other aspects.
Well, I can apply my “skill” in WT at least. When somebody shoots me I do barrel rolls, erratic flight adjustments and when he comes too close I can do a loop or “leaf falling” maneuver to best him.
In WoWp all I can do is turn. You cannot outrun your opponents, because it takes too much time and you’re dead before you manage it (yes, I tried hard diving, too). You cannot outturn your enemies, unless they are flying an inferior aircraft. You cannot throw their aim off, because magic WoWp bullets fly in a cone pattern and it is extremely easy to aim… I did not know what could I do more, so I just quitted this crap.
Exactly. When you top tier you can do anything in WoWp. 5-6 or more downed planes, when you know what are you doing, is simple. But when you middle tier you fight for survival, and when you at the bottom, you’re dommed no mather you’re skill. Diference between plane is so huge, that you can’t do anything. In WoT, you can at least try to fight you’re own tier. In WoWp top tiers are choosing their prey. And yes, evesive manuvers are more or less pointless. Barrel roll takes ages, and autoaim make such attempts futile.
Sigh. I was in closed beta. We’re testing several control methods, but why they adopt worst, i don’t get it…
This game is a boring fest from day 1. Server population has also been close to a wasteland from day 1.
Suckage game and World of Warship will become the same boring crap with little to no one playing it. MARK MY WORDS. Just wait and see.
Nostradamus :)
I cant wait to see that you are maybe wrong about WoWs xD.
If I recall, WoWP is working on PvE mode in the hopes of salvaging the game. If it’s anything that has truly failed there, it’s PvP. Because of the low population, seal clubbing in platoons is relentless in WoWP.
Or it’s just bots filling up the empty slots on both sides in arcade mode, which doesn’t sound so bad I guess.
Iirc that’s actually WoT that has PvE in the pipeline, though wouldn’t surprise me to see it for WoWP because of the AI targets already present in matches
War thunder puts bots in matches if there are not a lot of people playing ( like in realistic late at night or sim battles in general) WOWP can learn something from that.
Wargaming advertises in NA? That’s news to most people.
They will not pull the pug. They will sell the game.
Wargamming is not too small to take advantage of a partial divestiture. Downsizing through the getting rid of the unwanted unit (World of warplanes) will allow Wargamming to use the sale proceeds, and redirect them into more profitable areas.
Who would be retarded enough to buy that broken by design game?
Maybe a startup gaming company that wants to cut corners and buy a game. That also does not know about WT and gets crushed
The game has clients who play and clients who pay so there will always be a willing buyer if the price is right. Said buyer would change the game model to what they believe would be a profitable one.
Gunlion is the best wargaming employee ever.
At least world of Warships will be a beast. Maybe even better than WoT. Lesta studios rocks.
Agreed xD,its the main reason why I rarely play WoT
I realy liked WoWp on some point. This game had a real potential, but they lost it at some point.I think main waekpoint of WoWp and WoWs is that they stick to WoT scheme. Same tier system, similar class system, similar game modes and overal gameplay. But it’s not so easy. Planes are not like tanks, so game model was srewed from the begining. Gajin adopted changed system of tiers in WT and I think is the weakest part of the game. You have to forget about history and make everything balanced by tier, to make every plane/tank on each tier competetive to each other. Then you have to balance tier to tier not making gaps between them to wide. So in most cases planes/tanks only look like their real counerparts. And thats why some of them are on realy strange place on game tech tree. And also that leeds to the feeling that all planes/tanks on tier are similar, becouse they are. In Wot is much more diversity. Wrong. In WoT you can feel diversity between tanks (slow/fast, big/small) in WoWp, not diference is to small just to feel it. yes, you can feel diference between the tiers. Is huge. More prominent than in Wot (maybe like between tiers III and iV).But MM was projected from the start +/- 1. Changing it to +/- 2 just to shorten the queues killed gamplay for me. I stoped playing from this moment. I played WoWp to fly my favourite planes from time to time. But now is pointless. No fun in mindless butchering low tiers or in being butchered by high tiers. Now skill is irrelevant.
Wait until CBT or the full release,WoWs gameplay will be completely different than WoT.
Considering the state of MM pre 1.7 (Have not played 1.7) and the reptitive game play, getting a hord of new players would be a waste because they would not stay. The IL hp, tail gunner accuracy and damage would not be experienced until tier 6 which none of the new players would reach out of boredom.
They have done some good things with WOWS, but it is more of a niche market than airplanes. The game play in it looks like fun, but I don’t think it will have legs. The hammer scissors rock nature of their combat model will drive off the hardcore. The maps will make little difference. They have kept this in development a long time refining the product. It has gotten better and better. No telling how it will end up.
WT is not a competitive game, while wot is. That is why you can get away with the client side stuff in WT. WT is more an individual game. Not as team oriented.
OK guys. I may be alone in this but I actually like WoWP. Version 1.7 has been a vast improvement. Finally Stukas are here. Maybe Wargaming will also introduce real bombers and that would be awesome.
You’re not alone. It’s just that people who play WoWp are mostly not interested in FTR, so SS can have his field day with lies and demagogy here.
Oh, yeah….
The game is so good and so popular. That’s why even the CM say it is crap and the queue is almost always empty…
He didn’t say it was crap. He admitted there are problems. Thats more than Storm will do. Storm just says “Everything is Awesome!” whenever an obvious problem is brought up.
I do understand why alot of tankers dislike it, you have be 3D aware. That’s why so many hate arty also. Never know if something will hit you from above. Same with WoWP. You have to watch above and below you, not just horizontally.
They won’t pull the plug, no matter how much you want them too. It is doing very good in russia, and good in eu. It can’t cost them that much in NA as it is on the same server as WoT.
Now let the flamers start!
Best thing would be scrap whole thing , and rework entire flight engine . Give masochists who played it some unified account stuff , or exp in next WoWp 2.0
everything went away to the pipe with the 1.5, it would kick to him the one to that gave this idea of update, everything was well
earlier it gets ready more than 2000 players, now scarcely if moan 600/800 in the server NA
If they had made a good game – ppl would care.
Even americans !! …….. (warthunder ha) …. but no… UFO planes across all lines…..
cause : Reasons (cheaper than recreating real ones i guess)
Well, they wanted this to happen. Have fun losing money WG…
might scrap the project and make a “real arcade” fun out of it… something with 100% fake stuff and crazy abilitys or so……..
pah. not even good enough for ipad!
IMO they should have made WoWP more arcadey. IF isntead of trying to compete with WT, they had channeled ace combat, more health, more forgiving flight envelopes, and make it easier to do ridiculous maneuvers. I think it would have been more successful as a dumb fun flight shooting game, with a WWII skin.
The problem it has now, is that the difference between being killed without contributing, and going on a 5+ kill rampage, is not down to skill, but luck. It is entirely dependent on the maneuvers you take at the start of the game relative to other players. Something that cannot be depended on.
Typically if an enemy gets on your tail you are already dead, you can prolong the engagement, but it is only a matter of time before you are shot down.
Didn’t WG say a while ago that in WOWS, there will be combined arms battles with tanks, planes, and ships. Now it seems like WG forgot about it. Look at WT, now you can do combined arms battles with tanks, planes, and eventually ships and they are probably going to do it even better than WG ever could.
No,they never said that there will be combined arms battles with tanks, planes, and ships.What they said was there will be a unified account for both WoT,WoWs and WoWp account.But if they really said that,please post the evidence of it.
As usual, FTR only sees what it wants to see. The WoWp development team (which according to this website, was all fired last month, another fake headline) were in America last week doing planning with the NA crew. And they are indeed advertizing again now that they feel they have the MM kinks worked out. All of that is in Gunlion’s post, yet FTR continues to run fake headlines to drum up page counts and bring out the lemmings. Its like getting basic lessons on how to internet troll and get paid to do it.
Ain’t it? He so royally missed the point of gunlion’s post it’s pure comedy.
Why are you so goddamn dense, SS?? You got that message completely wrong. (No wonder, since you’re pathologically opposed to WoWp.)
Let me translate for you what gunlion *actually* meant with his post:
Advertising the game *right now* in NA is counter-productive due to the too small player count, which makes for a very bad environment for newbies. But there are mechanics in the works (i.e. probably further expanded bot matches) to fix this. And THEN we will advertise more again.
Here, was that too hard for you?
“Hurr durr, SS cannot into three dimensions, so WoWp must suck.”
IL-2 Sturmovik. Need I really say more?
1946. Enough said.
For the bitter enders…are they still handing out the green glasses in emerald city?
I mean come on..yeah the first post SS made about the clown show that is Persha might have been a bit off but this one? Trying to walk back and explain gunlion’s(who is the best manager to hit the NA community..the rest were dreadful) own words when it is right there for all to see? It is bad enough on the NA server that we had to get a damned special dispensation (separate form the other servers) from MM because the population is so low that the system wouldn’t even work
We can’t advertise the game because the game is bad due to the population being too low….so advertising to get new players and make the game better is not financially worth it….as the return would be less than the gain…
So they will continue to slow walk this thing to stage right.Fill out matches with bots and make each update(it was a banner weekend with the new update roll out..a little over 900 players during the “high time”) a new plane sale to try and get the last remaining pennies until the breaking point is reached that WoT can no longer shoulder the financial burden that is WoWp.
It sucks too because the game had potential and was(IMHO) better than WT. Unfortunately WG chose a insular out of touch studio to make it and then seeded the NA server with a series of unfortunate individuals until gunlion came around.I just hope that when this thing finally noses into the ground that he is firmly ensconced in WoWs so as to survive the plunge because he has been the first manager that has tried to be honest with what is left of the NA community.
When WG’s resident historian Yuri Pasholokis posting stuff like this… http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x391/Tpaktop2_1/Yuri.jpg
…no amount of spin can mitigate the stink coming off of this thing..
“Trying to walk back and explain gunlion’s(who is the best manager to hit the NA community..the rest were dreadful) own words when it is right there for all to see?”
Try reading his whole post and not just the parts that SS highlighted for you. Gunlion is a great manager, and what he says in the post is about 180 degrees off of what SS claims (yet again).
The whole conversation came about when he was asked if WoWp Devs were going to start doing something to draw in(the ever present drum beat of Clan Wars) or even advertise so as to get people in the larger WoT community to give the game another try(I know…I was there and part of the conversation).Most argued that it made sense seeing as the dreaded MM was fixed(a big thanks to gunlion for going to the mat for the NA community).The game had honestly made some improvements…so why not advertise?I(as well as others) honestly thought that a cross promotion of the game into WoT might be in order to say “he give it a try…one more time”.Maybe time may had eased memory of the crap reputation that game had on release or guidance from the incompetent community managers that were there before gunlion or even handling of the dreaded “event that shall not be named”(a true PR disaster if there ever was one).
So yes gunlion(while limited in power to other than being a tiny voice for the tiny NA community and mouth piece for WG) responded with a large amount of flowery verbatim but with some gems in it. The standard line of “we are having meetings and stuff is happening but we can’t tell you what”(the standard WG response of “soon”),the more interesting and sad aspect about filling out matches(read as bots to make full games..no more 3vs3,5vs5..etc) but what SS said still stands and no amount of fandom can alter the cold hard facts.From the community standpoint I for one think it is a hell of a let down and sucks…but feel that gunlion has no sway in the decision.His response is that WG does not see the gain in cross promotions or advertising as being worth the cost..hence no effort will be made.
Then we get the obligatory response of “We are going to continue supporting World of Warplanes in NA. “…and yes read what you will through rose colored glasses on that this but they have to say this from a business standpoint…because as soon as there is an inkling that support has dropped..the community goes from stagnant(hey we almost had 1000 players on last weekend) to free-fall. While being on the cusp of opening WoWs….WG simply can not afford the advertising that would bring.
I like the game(tried WT and found it meeh) and see potential for it but you would have to be delusional to the point of drinking the community flavor aid to think that the game is doing well.Anyways I am still awaiting the promised Dev communication with the NA community that never happened….
noooo i want to keep my Buffalo Prototype =(
i should find a plane model of the Buffalo.
Nice job making it say what you want it to say, just like these WT fanboys, WT IS NOT a simulator by any stretch of the imagination, just like Tanks is not a tank sim. You want a real combat flight simulator try DCS, most Warthud players would probably have issues getting off the runway.
An important item that you failed to highlight in your disinformation article, probably intentionally is, and I quote Gunlion, “We are going to continue supporting World of Warplanes in NA.”
Convenient how you can frame a story by clipping only the parts that make things look bad.
Why would they shut it down? We have unified accounts, unified clans, and there are rumors of unified clan maps. A clan would only control a territory if the won land, air and sea. But, whatever. Haters gonna hate.
Oh yeah, Sterling. An old guy says “Go Hawks!”
I had a couple of thounsands battles in WOWP beta. Farmed arround 6 months of premium account that was usable on WOT. Remember when there were missions for in-game tokens which u could use to buy premium time?
After beta I have roughly 1,5 k battles… and I can say this:
1. There is more ppl who like tanks more than planes and therefore more ppl playing tanks
and those who would play WOWP just does not have enough time to play both games. When compared, WOT will allways be upfront of WOWP. Allways. Its that simple.
And those WOT players who plays WT they rarely play WT Planes but WT Tanks. Tanks will allways come first!
2. Give some premium/gold rewards on WOWP that can be used thanks to the unified WG account and more ppl would come. I know that I would as well as some of my clanmates.
3. When WOWS come arround I will try it, for sure. And play it, sure. But WOT will be allways my first choice. No matter how great would be playing ships…
Tanks allways comes first! But LONG LIVE WOWP!!!!!!!