76 thoughts on “Complete 8.6 MM table

  1. Arty shoud have a 1 tier mm moved from its own tier.

    Example, tier 6 arty, mm starts at tier 7
    Coz my M4A2E4 will do shit versus a new tier 6 hummel Q_Q

    • SPGs should have two battle tiers instead of the three on the chart. These two battle tiers should be the upper two battle tiers for its respective tank tier. This would still make same tier platoons and special event tiering viable, which your suggestion does not.

      • i was talking about ut with Overlord a few days ago (well , tbh I was whining :) ). From his responses I suppose that devs think that arties will not be shooting at lowest tier enemies cause it will be unprofitable for them to kill such small tanks with such huge shells and risk of missing small fast tank will be too big ;)

        • I’ve never seen that be the case. SPG players, like tankers, see a quick kill and they go for it. I don’t usually bother unless I have a shot aimed and ready, and my “spotter” is in trouble. This way of thinking may be why WG misunderstands player bias against arty.

          • They want the artys to be fine tanks for its tiers after the nerf. No special MM anymore. My overall damage from the testservers was on par with the other tanks of my tier. But the 1Hit posibility is still scary. 210mm GW Tiger (P) vs T-34-85 …. still a bad thought

      • You captured my thought very well. The only exception is that I don’t think the Tier 2 SPGs should be any different than for the tanks at its tier. Given the limited maps they play on, and the stats for those arty, tier 2 SPGs don’t have significant influence. As you have it, if a tier 2 tank platoons with a tier 2 arty, it could push them up into a match where neither of them could really contribute. At worst, tier 2 SPGs should be just one battle tier (Battle Tier 3).

  2. The E-25 and WZ-112 are labeled as mediums, aren’t they a TD and heavy respectively?

      • Each vehicle class has a different color label. Light Blue for lights, Gold for mediums, Purple for heavies, Light Green for TDs, and Red for Arty. In that chart, both the WZ-112 and E-25 are labeled with a Gold marker (in the actual chart, not just their names)

          • You missed what I’m saying. On the chart where it shows tier 7 and 8 battles for the E-25, it is marked with gold rather than green, what the rest of the TD’s have

  3. Preferential match making for the 112? And where did the IS-6 go in this table?

    • I guess it still have the ‘easy’ mm. If it vere to get the normal mm, it would be a nerf like no other,,,, well you get the point.
      Such a nerf would/should be in the patchnotes, so my guess is : still the same mm for IS-6. Only they forgot to mention it along with the rest of the tanks with ‘easy’ mm.

  4. Dafuq? I thought 112 is a IS-6 with Overall little better stats… but IS-6 hasn’t limited MM so why the hell gets 112?!

  5. Well, why does WG plan to introduce a “regular” replacement for the Type 59 and make it (112) even more OP? The IS-6 aka Object 252 is inferior in every aspect. And the E-25 is a bad joke for a Tier 7 TD.

    In short: with the 112, WG creates a “nice” pay2win tank. I don’t understand this decision.

    • In short: with the 112, WG creates a “nice” pay2win tank. I don’t understand this decision.

      I got to agree Franky-boy, basicly an IS-3 premium tank with ‘easy’ matchmaking. What a beast if it do end up as a golden IS-3.

      • Well, the gun isn’t as good as BL-9, so it’s not really as good as elite IS-3, but it’s still a bit OP.

        • Yep… but it is definitely better than an IS-6…
          (yes IS-6 owner here -.-’)

      • IS-3? have you checked the armor of this thing? it has the same front armor as 113. And thats a fucking T10 tank.

        IS-3 looks like a cheap premium compared to 112 lol!

        • It has the same armor thickness, not the same armor. Also, the gun is crap without prem. rounds. If I had to pick, I would take the “cheap premium” IS-3 with BL-9 and well sloped frontal armor. Also, the top turret of IS-3 is much better than the turret of 112 in my opinion.

          • Dude, it has the same armor profile as the 113, with a 120mm upper plate angled at 68 degrees, giving it approximately 250mm protection from the front. Its 300 pen HEAT round is also much more powerful than your IS-3′s 265 APCR. Dude, this is nothing short of OP.

          • I never said it wasn’t OP, I just don’t think it’s as OP as you say it is. It can be killed even by tier six tanks and actually has few weakspots and flaws.

          • @nyan cat

            Except that the HEAT shells get reworked and spaced armor will perform better against HEAT so I’d say that the 112′s 300 pen HEAT is about as useful as the IS-6′s 165 pen APCR.

          • I really should spellcheck more often. I meant the post to xiantom instead of nyan cat. Oh well, I guess that it would’ve been obvious even if I wouldn’t have posted this one.

          • Aye, HEAT won’t be as good as it is now. Still, those 35mm can make a difference in some occasions and if the frontal armor is really as good as the 113 has, it is somewhat OP for a tier VIII with preferential MM. I don’t think it’s as good as some say, though. It can be destroyed, it does not fire 30 shots per minute and it most definitely isn’t a tank that can hit weakspots from other side of a map…

  6. Hey, SS, I’m still unable to post. Let me know if there’s an issue or somesuch.

  7. But what makes you sure these stats will remain so? what if they nerf the shit out of it in 8.7?

    • I doubt they will nerf “the shit out of it”, but they will nerf it somehow.

      All premium tanks are introduced as pay2win, later get “adjusted/rebalanced” and stay average.
      This WG model is known for long time, they have always brought the new premium tanks as uber free win tanks, just to milk the people more.

      • “…they have always brought the new premium tanks as uber free win tanks…”

        Unless they’re German premium tanks, of course. Play the Dicker Max after a few rounds with the SU-122-44 and the bi- …er, let’s call it ‘geographically influenced preference’ is very clear indeed. Now they’ve meganerfed its gun the E-25 will be just as gimped at tier 7 as the D-Max is at tier 6.

  8. Well IS-6 already pretty much rocks with it’s preferential MM, but 112 with these stats…..hope it earns credits as good as IS-6.

  9. By the way, do we know anything new about those cute little tier3 premium tanks (PzII J, BT-SV, MTLS)?

  10. Anyway this 112 looks even better than WZ-111 which it has up to T10 MM. Yet 112 has preferential up to T9. Something tells me they are going to major nerf it’s current stats identical to IS-6.

  11. These new Premium tanks ( except Excelsior) still have to go through public 8.7 test before the release on that update..

    • Im afraid E-25 will become the subject of bad jokes in the community
      (How to penetrate tier 7/8 with E-25? Jump off the bridge in Westfield , no weakspots targeting needed, just land on top.)

    • btw pen wins the match, 80mm versus gold/regular loses one
      Some psychological breakdowns incoming whem E-25 meets D-2-5T

    • OP? That thing has god-awful gun. It can’t even penetrate other Excelsior without using premium ammunition… And while the armor is good, quite a few tier V tanks have guns that actually can penetrate it. Not to say there is almost no angle -> That tank is second christmas for HEAT loaded derp guns.

        • The A33 has a grand total of 31mm side armor, so even after the derp HEAT nerf, they still go straight through

          • It actually got spaced armor at the stides wich will make shooting heat there a bad idea. The tracks will also act as spaced armor in 8.6 and that combined with the actual spaced armor makes the side of the Excelsior actually pretty well armored.

  12. great, as if my 8.8 JT wasnt a big enough target already. Now im gonna have tier 9 arty shooting at me -.-

    The Excelsior is far from OP. Its basically a T14, and yes, it does need to gold to pen itself.

    the 112 im definetly going to be getting. My 110 crew could use the boost and it looks like fun(OP).

    • It may have as crappy pen as T14 but it’s gold pen is way better. It’s gun is also more accurate. Gun wise T14 is quite inferior.

      • How is it on par with the T14? It has comparable frontal armor, a better gun,a lower profile and it’s faster. Yeah sure it cant angle itself like the T14 but it’s still better. Find me one GOOD player that thinks the T14 is better.

  13. 112 gets preferential MM… next Type 59 is on its way, it is OP as balls and gets HEAT… RIP IS6

  14. For everyone crying about the limited MM for the 112, the reasoning is that the devs consider the actual usage of gold ammo so low that is is not justifiable to balance MM on a tank based upon its gold ammo, to do so would be unfair to the 99.8~% that SerB said don’t use gold ammo.

    Stop bitching about something that is financially balanced well, the tank needs limited MM because it is an IS-6 clone, albeit on paper, slightly better, but not good enough to warrant facing T10′s.

    • I actually disagree… to an extent.
      The stock 110, which ultimately is quite similar to the 112, could hold its own reasonably well in tier 10 matches [bearing in mind that most tier 8-10 matches usually only have a few tier 10's].

      The gun is sure underwhelming for tier 10 with standard ammo, but the bad MM would be justified considering the armor protection. It has about 320mm LoS armor thickness, and will be offer over 270mm of protection against APCR. That’s just too much for a tier 8 to justify preferential MM. The ISU-152 will be the only thing in tier 8 that can pen it reliably. Even the AC Mle 1948 will have trouble.

  15. About 112, I’d like to know how thick its lower glacis is? If 80mm, then it’s vulnerable to 175mm pen guns, and 112 would be quite similar to the tier 8 premium WZ-111 (which I face every day in my IS-6, since I’m a Chinese player).
    I’m confident to say that when not firing gold shells, the premium WZ-111 is the tier 8 heavy that I’m least afraid of when driving IS-6. Even when the enemy uses the 300mm pen HEAT shells, I still have a fair chance of winning a 1vs1 battle (when the frontal lower glacis becomes unpenetratable due to enemy’s angling, I just shoot the side, it always penetrates, and I use 175mm pen AP shells only).
    Oh, and another thing about 112 and prem WZ-111 — WZ-111 has space armor on its sides the same way as IS-3 / tier 9 WZ-111 1-4 does, while 112′s sides are just as vulnerable as the Chinese tier 8 110.
    Of course, if 112′s lower glacis is tough, then it really might be slightly better than the IS-6. So if anyone know the answer, please let me know.

    • My bad, it seems that 112 has spaced armor on it’s side, but it’s still far from OP based on my experience. (If one uses gold ammo only, he won’t profit, plus on Chinese server we don’t have the option of buying gold shells for credits).

      • Well, we have credit prem ammo here on EU server… And with this ammo the 112 will become something like the current T5 derps; they’re good, or so-so with regular HE, but with HEAT they pwn everything. And since it’s a T8 premium, it isn’t a problem to farm credits even if you shoot only prem ammo. (if you also have premium account… then you can spam calmly your HEAT on everything… they will pen -> do dmg -> earn credits)

        This 300mm pen is just a joke, and the shell costs exactly the same as the soviet APCR with 217 mm pen… (historical or not, this thing should be such “balance thing” what they should change for the sake of the holy game balance) It almost doubles the standard ammo penetration wtf?

        But since we don’t have the premium WZ here on EU server nor on the others, we (or the devs) don’t have experience about the pairing of T8 prem & super HEAT (for credits!!!). Maybe it’s not such a big trouble on the chinese server… you must pay real money if you wanna pwn with your WZ…

        • Hmm.. Interesting point.
          Maybe raising the price of 112′s prem ammo will do the trick?

          [A little more on the OP topic]
          Actually, even prem WZ-111 firing gold shells only are not that OP. As I’ve mentioned, if you meet such a WZ at close distance, all you have to do is to strike back as hard as he beats you (believe me it’s not difficult). If he is 400 meters away, just back off like you do when you see a King Tiger played by a skillful player. Considering its .46 accuracy, that WZ isn’t likely to deal real damage to your vehicle (most probably misses / hits on matlets or all kinds of spaced armor).

          A reasonable WZ-111 player with prem ammo wouldn’t fire his shells at targets 400m away. He would like a 200m distance, which allows him to penetrate enemy tanks easily, but most vehicles would have the power to strike back at such distance. So on the Chinese server, there are two playstyles for prem WZ with prem shells:
          1. Solo pub: penetrate good players’ tanks and be penetrated, and strike fear to those noobs(He hits me so hard! Take cover! Oh no, he chases me and hits me again!)
          (I believe tier 8 non-premium heavies are capable of doing that as well, with decent pen and better overall armor)
          2. (3 WZ’s) platoon: Everyone go away! We take charge of this part. (But isn’t that what any three heavies platoons do, whatever they drive?)

          You may wonder why I talk so much about premium WZ-111, even when it has no chance to meet players on the other servers (according to dev)?

          Well actually, the new 112 is really, really similar to the premium WZ-111 (you can get the World of Tanks Knowledge Database Android app to check the prem WZ’s stats). TBH I don’t understand why the devs don’t just introduce it to all servers. It used to be considered OP, but it was when it had 320m view range instead of the current 380m, before its tough lower glacis (at least as good as IS-3′s, definitely better than Type59′s) was nerfed to the current 80mm with not so good slope. (Someone tested its toughness with Marder II, 8 pen’s out of 10 without angling)
          So you see, the 80mm lower glacis(if that is the case) is no small trouble, In fact it’s fatal when paired with poor gun depression. Think about 113′s survivability in a tier 10 battle even without arties. 112 would likely be a tier 8 equivalent. I don’t know how 113′s doing on other servers, but on Chinese server 113 is just as extinct as the Maus!

          • To tell the truth, I don’t really have heavily armored tanks between T6-T9 (like E75 or ST-I – which can meet 112) so I won’t really feel the “pain” of its HEAT shells… (I know my tanks in the garage can be penetrated even with 200-250 mm pen… let alone 300)

            I just compare it to my IS-6 (and I’m a little bit envy…) even with the 217 pen of APCR I must aim on weakspots, and possibly ding on some targets despite every effort… I think it’s fine for a T8 prem – so players can’t “exploit” the lighter MM & higher income & premium ammo & still earn credits combo.
            But with 300 pen… literally there is nothing what I can’t pen. And the two tanks – IS-6 and 112 – are almost the same, same MM, probably similar price and income… so just why? (I’m agree on that tanks shouldn’t be balanced by their prem ammo – but there should be a limit)

            When they will see the problem, what 112 may cause… (who knows? maybe it become the next “Type59-phenomenon”?) And maybe then they want to do something… you know what is happening when WG wanna change something on premium tanks…

          • Regarding the fact that some people may use only gold ammo in 112 and still earn silver, I suppose these players can also earn silver in their t8 non-premium vehicles (IS-3, King Tiger, etc.). The profitability of a t8 premium firing gold ammo bought with the credits it earned wouldn’t be better than a t8 non-premiun firing regular ammo. So why bother buying a prem that doesn’t profit (when played in your preferred style?) Because it’s OP? Well with its lower glacis weakzone (not “weakspot”), as I’ve mentioned before, it’s not as OP as in your imaginations.

          • IS-6′s 217 pen APCR is near BS when facing tanks like E-75, but it does have advantages over 112. IMO IS-6 has better armor than 112 does (against 175mm pen premium vehicles), it will suffer less damage when it has to cross an area with enemies waiting to shoot its side. The IS-6 will also survive longer when surrounded by a flood of noobs (in Type 59′s maybe, the Type has never leaved the shop here in China). Also, the lower glacis of 112 will be easier to penetrate than IS-6′s driver’s hatch.

            But yes, there is more choices of playstyle when driving 112, you can either use high income “farming mode” or the 300mm pen “monster mode”, and you don’t even need to switch to other vehicles to farm in order to keep your economic balance! I can see your point now…

            Well for me, perhaps I should be more concerned about this question: when will the “gold ammo for silver” feature be implemented on the Chinese server? There were rumors saying that this feature has always been in testing status (and that all players outside China has become testers), while the test will be completed(proving a success) with the introduction of 0.8.6. Could anyone give some details about that statement? Is there some truth in it or it’s just rumor?

  16. Really hope they undo the change to the pen of the E-25 gun..

    Aren’t TD’s supposed to have better pen than tanks of the same tier… Now it just is a turretless PzV/M10

    Looks like a jagdpazIV incoming…

    • Yeah… you can experience the “pleasure” of JgPz, but this time at tier7!
      Enjoy it – and also pay for it! *trollface*

      • Just give it the L100 of the panther and drop the special MM. Then I would be intrested in it. As it is now I don’t see the benefit… Must be insane stealthy to justify the low pen…

      • Hahaha. Yeah.
        I’m currently grinding through the infamous JagdPanzer IV and it is just awful.

        Good luck when MM puts you in tier 8 or even 7 battles…

  17. The 8.6 MM table is pathetic.

    No matter: There’s a good chance that after WG sells out to Microsoft, they (Microsoft) will kill the PC end of WOT anyway and just keep the XBOX version.