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VK 3002 (MAN), upcoming tier 6 MT

Hello everyone,

since today in the 8.8 info it was uncovered that the new German tier 6 medium tank (to replace the VK3001H, which is blatantly unhistorical) will be the VK3002M, let’s have a look at it, shall we?

vk3002-m_01

As you can see, VK3002M can be identified as a Panther at first glance. It’s a Panther prototype, that’s why. In game, it will most likely be designated as VK 30.02 (M) or something like that, but I will refer to it as VK3002M, it’s easier.

In November 1941, special Panzerkomission representatives met with Generaloberst Guderian to discuss the future of armored warfare in the East. If you’re wondering what a Panzerkomission is, it’s a committee consisting of members of the military industry (not soldiers, civillians), estabilished to discuss and propose tank ideas to the army.

man

Guderian complained to them that the German tanks are encountering more and more heavy Soviet vehicles such as the T-34 and KV-1, which are hard to defeat with contemporary weapons and he demanded a new tank to be developed, that would estabilish the German dominance on the field of battle once again. He specifically demanded

a) heavier armor
b) better tactical maneuverability
c) improved armament

As a result of this discussion, Waffenprüfamt quickly tasked both Daimler-Benz and MAN with developing a new 30t vehicle for the German army. We all know the results: DB came up with the VK3001DB and VK3002DB, while MAN came first with the VK3002MAN and then with the Panther, heavily based on it.

First report about VK3002MAN is dated to 22.1.1942, with MAN representatives reporting that the VK3002M weight increased from original 32,5 tons to 36 tons, the armament considered is the newly-developed Rheinmetall 75mm L/70. A small model was made and was to be presented to Hitler, while MAN promised to make a prototype until May 1942.

The DB and MAN models were indeed presented to Hitler in January (he preferred the MAN version), but Reichsminister Todt insisted that he should meet with the designers first.These meetings took place by the end of January and numerous remarks were made during them, including:

- the army prefers torsion bars over leaf springs
- MAN tracks are wider, which was seen by the army as an advantage
- the earlier cooperation between DB and MAN is not effective and should cease

As a result of these discussion, the MAN proposal was slightly favoured, but DB was still not without its chances, but in the meanwhile, Todt was killed in a plane crash and was replaced by Albert Speer, which somewhat tipped the scale in MAN’s favour. While initially Hitler preferred the DB “Panther” proposal, during the final design evaluation by a committee in 11.5.1942, MAN was declared the winner for following reasons:

- the DB design was not considered completed and the vehicles wouldn’t be read for production by December 1942
- the Rheinmetall-developed turret could not be fitted on the DB design, because its turret ring was too small and no other turret was readily available
- MAN suspension proved to be more stable firing platform
- MAN engine had longer cruising durability

As such, the committee verdict was passed to Hitler on 13.5.1942. Hitler studied it overnight and in the morning, he stated that he agrees with the committee position and approved the MAN design. First steps towards the Panther were taken and there was no going back.

Characteristics

Armament: 75mm L/70
Weight: 35 tons
Armor:
Upper frontal plate – 60mm (55 degrees)
Lower frontal plate – 60mm (55 degrees)
Turret front – 80mm
Turret side – 45mm
Hull side – 40mm
Speed: 40km/h (55,8km/h maximum obtainable)
Engine: 700hp Maybach HL230

In World of Tanks

This tank will be roughly on par with the VK3001DB. Expect a bit more accurate gun, roughly equal mobility. It looks better though :)

91 thoughts on “VK 3002 (MAN), upcoming tier 6 MT

    • Yes, but nobody needs that many Panthers.

      According to rumors, german mediums are gonna be like this:
      tier 6: Vk 30.02 MAN
      tier 7: Panther
      tier 8: Panther II
      tier 9: Turbo-Panther

      Who thought this would be a good idea?
      Panther is awful to play and isnt even that good looking, there is no need for more of them.

    • Agreed, the current Panther has pitiful alpha. I keep saying it should be changed to 150.

    • Another thing is this and the V3601 will be essentially the WW2 equivalents in the game with the real things being pushed up a tier and “upgunned”

      • NOTE: When patch 8.8 comes out, you’ll be able to mount the 7.5mm L/100 onto the Panthers stock turret. There goes the “Under-gunned” Guys who like the stock turret better and have to use L/70s.

  1. Mid tiers are flooded with 75mm L/70′s … I hope they all behave slightly different from one another given the different platforms they’re all installed in to =/

      • You are right but SeanPwnery probably meant that specifically among German tanks of that tier range there are no other viable gun choices. I mean you get this gun on all mediums + Stugs, JpanzerIV, E-25 and now upcoming Waffentragers will probably have this gun one way or another as well. That’s the thing, there’s too much L/70′s among so many different tanks.

        • That’s like saying there’s too much 75/76mm’s among so many different US and Brit tanks or 76/85mm’s among Soviets.

          Or complaining how EVERY NATO rifle seems to chamber 5.56 or 7.62mm…

  2. Looks awesome. The armor is shit, but has a good slope. Speed is kinda bad. And I guess L/70 as the last gun?

    • The 30.01H was built with the 7.5cm L/24(Which is modeled but not used). It’s most of the guns it has in game are not historic and it was developed long before the Schmalturm was introduced

    • I’m surprised as well, I think SS should clarify this matter with some article about it.

  3. Looks like we only need a small changes in the 3d model and we are finally able to drive a Panther without Pinocchio gun?!

  4. I suppose this will also make all the Panzer 5/4 owners seethe with envy because I’m assuming it’s going to have a Pz 4 turret/gun stock but will look like the historical Panther at the end.

    • hah, you cant make me envy those poor folks :)

      the pz5/4 has the full 80mm armor, while it uses the big 870 hp engine. it is capable to reach >50 kmh in a matter of seconds. (+ over 38 tons of rammingwight :) )

      well sure that gun is a big joke with -3 gundepression (elc near you hull? – unhittable)

      yet the tank is such uberfun against small tanks and lightweights and your armor is quite useful.

      • The actual PZ V/IV in reality as far as I can tell used a Panther D1 hull, so it should be 60mm of armor and the same engine as the Maybach HL210 or HL230. I wouldn’t put it past them to remove it’s 870hp engine when they remove all the top engines from the other panther tanks.

        • As I read in some magazine few years ago, the PzV/IVs turret was unable to turn (it was weldd to the hull). Dunno its true, BTW.

        • well well… remove the engine and the Armor (lol)
          Why dont you also remove the gun and give it a 5mm L60 or a 75mm L24.

          ever played the 5/4? it hardly is competitive and basically just canon fodder.
          The main factor which makes it uncompetitive is 110 penetration for T6 and a gun-directing possibility which would be better off for AA guns (due to elevation and depression) than for guns which are to be pointed at tanks.

          and:
          you forget one fact.
          the 5/4 is (unlike the Panther 1/2 and whatsoever) a Premtank!

          Thus it wont just get a hard nerf without a compensation (like the possibility to sell it for gold as you will be able to with the S.Pershing after its nerf in 8.8)

          • you mean 50mm L60, and its not prem because it doesn’t make extra credits. its a gift tank

            • Actually Panzer V/IV was the medium preorder tank, not a gift, only the Panzer V/IV Alpha was a gift, for Alpha testers, and all premium tanks except the M60 have premium credit modifiers, bought, gift and preorder.

          • the PZ V/IV in game is a very very poor tank stat wise at it’s current tier.
            IF they gave it the real hull and engine it should have (this one at 60mm) they could buff it to compensate, like drop it a tier, or buff the turret and gun so it can actually aim DOWN.

            you may have noticed with most other premium/promo/special tanks they try to keep the stats exactly what they were in real life, the pz v/iv flys in the face of that by a large margin with it’s current stats, and it’s looks (doesn’t look anything like the real tank)

            basically what it should look like
            http://www-d0.fnal.gov/~turcot/Armour/pz4_files/pz45_1.jpg

  5. Its strange. German tanks are more fun with every patch! (except 2801).
    pz4 is much better with derp without schalturm, 3601 with stock turret and konisch is more mobile and smaller, 3001d is nice, 3001h is shit, so it can,only be better. And this…. Most sexy tank in game will be on best tier. Hope for good turret traverse, as in M10 and stock panther. Last tanks waiting for rebalance to be fun are tiger and afkpanther

    • “pz4 is much better with derp without schalturm, 3601 with stock turret and konisch is more mobile and smaller, 3001d is nice, 3001h is shit, so it can,only be better”

      Bro fist.

    • AwfulPanther needs major vierwrange buff (and only that), WG could do that during coffee break…

      • That’s right. I would expect such tall tank to have even better view range than t71. For all it’s drawbacks 410 or 415 view range would be just fine. Then it might have it’s niche as a sniper/spotter.

        • Give it 450 view range and it’ll be fine.
          Really guys?
          It needs RoF buff over everything as it’s DPM sucks balls.

    • “pz4 is much better with derp without schalturm”
      Just pity that it used to be an awesome and unique sniper, and right now it is another T5 derp tank.

        • “Last tanks waiting for rebalance to be fun are tiger” Though 8.8 is taking out the Tigers final engine upgrade, it looses some ground resistance and it’s speed limit is faster. THEY ALSO buffed the 8.8cm L/71 so it fires a whole 2 rounds per minute faster. They also hinted that the Tigers Commander hatch’s Armour was buffed

  6. Seeing as I’m in the middle of playing the 30.01H and the 36.01H this is rather awkward, even if it makes sense. At the very least there is no sense in playing the 30.01H if it is only leading to the 36.01H, unless one gets the ProtoPanther in lieu of the 30.01H.

  7. Looks like the Panther D1 hull (which I guess it basically is) Also if they were going to tweak a tank around, the PZ V/IV was actually a D1 hull (so I guess this vk 3002′s hull) with the pz iv turret.

    that would mean a drop in armor for it to 60mm frontal, but if they buffed the actually turret/gun and gave it some decent stats it would be nice.

  8. Thats too bad, i really enjoyed VK30.01H. I hope it will get short 8.8 at least as i dont like 7.5 which 30.01DB sports.

  9. Why is it so often that there are tanks which are called Panther but dont look alike in any way in the game while the tank resembling the actual Panther is something entirely different, like in this case the VK30.02M.
    Same with the following:
    When the Pz IV still had the ugly Schmalturm, the only tank actually resembling the Pz IV was the Pz III/IV
    The VK36.01H has a lot more to do with the Tiger in terms of stats than the actual ingame Tiger differing only in size and turret shape.
    The KV-1S has performance and look-wise more to do with a IS-2.
    Speaking of which, the IS in the russian tree uses the old hull while the chinese get the Model 1944 hull which as used afaik on the majority of IS-2s.

    If i actually dig i may find even more stuff like that. I dont get it. Panther = Pseudo-Panther and Panther-Prototype = Panther?

  10. I really liked the VK3001H. Had 58% winrate with it. It somehow suited me very well.

  11. Beautiful model, But I wonder how WG will balance the 3001H (I think that they should keep the L56, which is basically the 90mm of the BDR).

    • Unless it gets a huge nerf in mobility and keeps the unhistorical Schmalturm, I think it’s highly unlikely that the 8,8 cm KwK 36 L/56 will remain.

        • They’re actually giving it the Konisch gun while moving it to tier 5. It loose’s the Schmalturm and a bunch of speed but get’s the Konisch and L/70 at tier 5. Agruably the best guns for tier 5 in the Germans. I like how that sounds.

  12. The Panther is worse compared to the VK 30.02 (D) in a *lot* of areas- depression (-6 vs -8), about 15-20% less DPM, larger profile, weaker hull armour, inferior mobility- but the gun has about 50mm more penetration with both AP and APCR.

    But the VK 30.02 (M)? Uses the same gun (though potentially with better RoF, for example), and is seemingly again worse in all other respects compared to its Daimler-Benz counterpart.

    • The turret is similar to the Ausf. D/A Panther turret without the chin, so the depression should at least be better on the VK 30.02 (M).

      • and turret traverse can be nice (38?), if we take into account 41 d/s for panther stock turret

  13. And another imaginary blueprint tank, never ever produced added to the game!

    As if the only problem with WoT was that it didnt have enough tanks -_-

    • The VK 30.01(M) was actually built, and it was produced as the Panther. This is just the version that was faithful to the original designs and wasn’t burned by more and more armor before production

  14. @Silentstalker:

    I’m a bit confused, you wrote that the VK3002M will *replace* the “unhistorical” VK3001H.
    On the Russian WoT news-page that is linked it says:
    “The German medium tanks VK 30.01 (H) and VK 36.01 (H) will be reclassified as heavy, VK 30.01 (H) will be moved from Tier 6 to Tier 5.”

    For me it looks like the “unhistorical” VK3001H will be kept, reclassified as heavy (like the 3601H) and just shifted down to Tier 5……

    Maybe my translator sucks ;-)

    • The VK30.02M will replace the VK30.01H in the german Panther line. In 8.7 the VK30.01H leads to the Panther. In 8.8 The VK30.02M will lead to the panther. That is how its replacing it.

      • >I’m a bit confused, you wrote that the VK3002M will *replace* the “unhistorical” VK3001H.
        The VK 3002M is replacing the 3001H as in it is taking the VK3001H’s place in the lineup, while the ahistorical buffs the VK 3001H received in order to remain competitive at tier 6 will be removed, such as the engine. That’s what is going to happen.

  15. Personally i actually loved my VK3001(H), it had a great gun, pretty good acceleration, good top speed, and great turret (Basically impenetrable by 99% if tier six guns) . It will be sad to see it go since it was actually a good tank (Despite what most people think). The VK3002(MAN) looks pretty good, I just don’t really see a need for yet another tier six that doesn’t have a good gun. (Looking at you VK3001(DB)) I personally love the 8.8 and have used it on all the VKs I’ve owned. The VK-3002(MAN) is basically a Stock panther with less armor… so basically you play the same tank twice in a row which is kind of weird.

    Regardless i’m sad to see the VK3001(H) go D:

    • Actually the 3001H isn’t being removed: it’s being knocked down to Tier V and reclassified as a Heavy Tank.

    • On the time they were developed 30+ tons tanks were considered heavy tanks.
      And not only in Germany, see Pershing tank.

      • The Pershing was developed as a medium tank, used as a medium tank in doctrine, and was designated a medium tank after the War was over.

        The VK 30.01(H) is basically a direct evolution from the DW to the VK 36.01(H) and was designed to be a breakthrough vehicle. Very much a heavy tank.

        • Incorrect. the M26 Pershing was developed as a heavy tank then re-classified to a medium after World War 2…

          • That is false. The M26 was developed as a medium tank via the T20, T23, and T25. It was redesignated a heavy tank during World War II for morale purposes, then redesignated to medium again after the war.

            • No its not false, the original M26 Pershings were heavy tanks, they just re-designated it as med after WWII

  16. I can’t wait to get the VK 30.02 (MAN)! I love my Panther, and I REALLY love my VK 30.01D. Hell, even the VK 30.02D isn’t so bad, though slightly under-gunned. This new VK looks like it will combine the best aspects of the VK 30.01D and the Panther, while being properly tiered and well-balanced. Good on WG for this, though I’m not so sure about making the VK 36.01H a heavy…

  17. Does the name VK30.02M implies that it is a second prototype and that there was a VK30.01M ?

  18. This thing better be researchable through Pz IV, or i’m going to have to choke a bitch.

  19. So another tier 6 tank that will be 2 shot killed by a KV-1S while it will take about 8 shots from this tank to kill the same KV-1S.

    KV-1S needs nerfing NOW!

  20. I didn’t read the comments, but is this essentially the Panther the way it should’ve been? 35-36 tons and mobile without the reliability issues of being massively overweight?

    This actually looks interesting. I might have to get one.