Hello everyone,
recently, player Lonigus posted a thread about the alleged bug on the EU forums. According to the pictures in the thread, his turret mechanism got destroyed, preventing its turret rotation.
Only… Waffenträger auf Panzer IV has no turret!
Or, doesn’t it?
It’s like this: while Waffenträger auf Panzer IV (furthermore referred to as WTP4) has no formal researchable turret, it in fact HAS a turret module. Every tank destroyer formally has one. To explain it in a bit more detail:
A “turret module” in some cases is not a module per se. It’s a segment of data, that contains certain variable values, tied to each vehicle. These values include:
- formal turret module tier
- turret module health (this is added to the total health pool of the vehicle)
- viewrange (that usually depends on turret)
- traverse speed (includes gun traverse speed for turretless tanks)
- turret rotator (!) health (this is not the health that is added to the total vehicle healthpool, this is the formal health of the vehicle module)
- observation device health
- price
If we take as an example the Jagdpanzer IV – it actually has a formal string of data called “Jagdpanzer IV turret”, that contains the values written above. However, the important part is: this turret is virtual – you can’t research a “turret” for Jagdpanzer IV and it’s not modelled in the vehicle (unlike on turretted tanks, you can’t knock out Jagdpanzer IV’s gun traverse).
WTP4 has exactly this – only it gets more complicated: it doesn’t have researchable turrets, but it HAS in fact two turrets. One is called “Waffenträger auf Pz.IV für 12,8cm” and the other is called “Waffenträger auf Pz.IV für 15cm”. These turrets are not unlocked by the player, they are bound to the gun. In other words: if you switch the gun from 12,8cm to 15cm, you switch the turret also. In values, both turrets are identical (same viewrange etc.) – this is however NOT always the case.
Panzer Sfl.IVc (despite being turretless) also has two turrets: one for first two guns, the other for the top (long 88mm gun), they are different in the way that the second Sfl.IVc turret provides slightly less (I think, it’s just a value and I don’t have anything to compare it with) camouflage. On the other hand, the “turret rotator” module is missing: you can’t knock out Pz.Sfl.IVc’s “turret”, reducing the gun traverse speed.
Back to WTP4 – in our case, there not only are two turrets tied to the gun as I wrote above, these turrets also have a turret rotator module implemented into the vehicle model. That means you can actually knock out WTP4′s turret and make it rotate slower, like when a regular tank turret is damaged. The same applies for tier 8 (RhB WT) and tier 10 (WTE100) – they both can have their turrets knocked out. So, in our case, it’s not a bug, it’s a design feature.
All that was written above comes from datamining the WoT files, something that’s not exactly encouraged. It serves only for explanation purposes. Hope it helped.
No, it’s a bug. Or more to the point it’s a cockup.
Either it should not be able to be damaged or it should be repairable.
In this case it can be damaged but cannot be repaired.
More like an UI bug I’d say. I think that if you used the gold repair kit, it would in fact get repaired.
That’s not what people are telling me. It doesn’t auto repair from a red state either.
I can confirm that gold repair kit fixes the turret. So it’s an UI bug for the normal repair kit.
It’s only repairable with a gold repair kit? That sounds like more than a UI bug to me. What other modules require a gold repair kit to repair them? Do turrets require a gold repair kit to repair on other tanks? Am I missing something?
It’S not a but, it’s feature! :)
*’Take Me Out’ by Franz Ferdinand starts to play*
But in the thread they also mention that he couldn’t repair the destroyed “turret” with a repair kit because “there is no turret to repair”. The crew also didn’t repair it, so he was stuck like that for the rest of the match.
Yes, but the bug is not the turret’s very existence. Strange though.
At one time you could buy turrets for turretless TDs in the store. They removed them all a while back. So no it’s existence isn’t a bug. The fact that it can be damaged and not repaired is.
Lovely explanation :)
As for the turrets.. they should maybe consider fully hiding icons/indicators in the game for some of them [ For turretless TDs ].
But, as it has really low priority.. it will maybe come in 2016 lol
Well, believe it or not, when i was driving my Stug one time, I fell off a small hill enough to damage my tank, and my TURRET was damaged. And untill it got automatically repaired, i couldn’t move my gun, and when it got repaired, my gun traverse was really really slow.
Fallingdamage is the only way to get the “turret” damaged on turretless TDs. Had it myself a while ago driving my T25 AT down a small cliff. Guess it doesnt happen very often…
Ye, its a very small chance i guess :P Still, it’s really stupid because WG have no other way to simply “delete” the turret data from turetless vehicles.
The second turret on the Flakbus is also what limits its traverse with the long 88.
No. Gun traverse is (strangely enough) a gun string value, not a turret one. Or rather: from the WoT file structure, it’s theoretically possible to actually have a turret and inside it a gun with traverse.
Oops, my bad.
Seems to me to be a really fucking lazy bit of programming. WG devs simply couldn’t be arsed to develop a proper mechanism for vehicles that have a basic gun mount instead of a turret.
That, or they really need to sort out how turret module damage is handled.
It’s actually sounds like a quite good implementation of component based object model, with the flexibility to represent different types of gun mounting systems.
The bug in this particular case seems more like a data entry one, where they indicated that the gun mounting has a traversal component, but fails to also specify an appropriate ui representation for that component to allow you to repair it.
So if TD’s have these virtual turrets, does that mean Snap Shot applies to movement of their gun within the traverse limits?
Yes it does, same goes for artillery vehicles too.
Don’t mind the possibility of the turret rotation being damaged. What I do consider a bit iffy though is the inability to repair it with a repair kit once that happens. That’s quite a serious disadvantage compared to its peers.
What was wrong in programming it as a straight up normal turret?
Same as with autoloader vehicles, turret is a part of gun upgrade i guess..
For tanks with osculating turrets, the base of the the turret is where the turret hit box is.
So if you get hit in the base of the turret (part that turns) the turret gets knocked out.
The upper part of the turret (part that pivots) is actually connected to the gun module.
Did it really require such a LONG article about this TINY feature?
This question is being answered by Serb (and posted here) like every 2 weeks.
Well nobody said you had to read it….
Well nobody said he had to write it. Stupid argument.
I didn’t even say I read it, I overflew it in hope of some new information but I guess in terms of game processes I won’t learn anything new on this blog. Same questions again and again, same answers of course.
Game processes? Does Silent look like a developer to you? He posts news here, if you dont like it, dont read it, simple as that >>
No, nobody said he had to write it, but it’s HIS blog, so he can write whatever he wants on this blog. To speak with a SerBism: don’t like it? Don’t read it. You don’t decide what SS wants to write here.
“Waahhh, SS isn’t only spending his time to write articles on things I’m interested in!”
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but you’re nowhere near as important as you seem to think you are. Certainly not important enough to decide what goes on someone else’s blog. Go act like an entitled little twat somewhere else.
Lol u guys are acting as if I asked for my money back.
HIS blog? MY Opinion!
You know, the “opinion” is the thing you just posted yourself. Someone thinks it’s a great article – he’s allowed to post that. But negative opinions should be unspoken?
Reminds me of Soviet Union.
Id rather a long article than a short one. A long article on this feature means that SS wont have to keep doing more “updates” on the issue as time goes on.
How Terrible…
Great explanation! Thanks for the article!
Already played more than 100 games with the Rheinmetall and never experienced this bug.
That’s because it’s on the tier 9, not the tier 8. ;)
The article states clearly the T8 and T10 turrets can be damaged too.
But it’s only the tier 9 which can be damaged but can’t be repaired as far as I am aware.
To be more precise. I never had a damaged turret yet.
” So, in our case, it’s not a bug, it’s a design feature.”
No, it’s still a bug because the turret rotator cannot be repaired by the repair kits, neither by the crew, because there is no turret module to act on.
Aslo:
” The same applies for tier 8 (RhB WT) and tier 10 (WTE100)”
It applies only to the RhB WT…WT E-100 has a regular turret module that can be repaired.
And in addition…I don’t know why they decided to remove the turret modules from RhB WT and WT4 during the test server?…in the first phase they all had turret modules…
As they are now is retarded, if you have your turret broken you’re screwed.
well this would be fine, if you could actually REPAIR the turret if it gets stuck, but my oh my you just can’t coz it doesnt ” have ” a turret… even thou it does. :D
Actually ( sorry for posting again for nothing ), I’m curious if Birch Gun has this same feature? :o
A similar thing happened to me playing the Bishop (SPG). The “turret traverse” got jammed, so the gun couldn’t move horizontally, just vertically. The amazing thing about this though was that it caused the aim time to freeze as well, in the fully aimed position! Since the Bishop has very little gun traverse anyway, this was just amazing since I could just move the tank and fire almost instantly at targets.
haxor
According to after-battle stats – once I destroyed GW Panther turret. Looks like there are more vehicles with turrets like WT – probably SU-26, top French arty etc.
Longius is a fucking moron to need to have this explained.
Thank you. Have one internet for insulting and being an utter internet faggot :)
Back in one of the Beta patches, you were able to right click on the turret module and check out the “turret” stats for any TD.
Woot woot!
Silent add also my second pic I posted in the tread where I actually noticed the same as you posted.
There is also the hole marked. Its actually only a very time barely visible bit of steel that acts as the turret ring
Heres the pic with the hole
http://i.imgur.com/6C1Z4n2.jpg
This reminds me, back in CBT where the “turret” module of the tds could be clicked on to see the armor (which was different from the hull values) and viewrange . They removed this sometime after I started though.
While it would make sense that a gun could be jammed in its position by taking damage to its mounting on a non-turreted vehicle (although it’s much harder to do this to a hull-mounted gun than to a turret-mounted one), the one part of this glitch that I find unacceptable is being unable to repair it with normal repair kits.
“All that was written above comes from datamining the WoT files, something that’s not exactly encouraged.”
Datamining wouldn’t be necessary or nearly as common if WG were a bit more open about the inner workings of their game. Particularly statistics that people generally mine for (gun arcs, terrain resistance, module health, reticule blooms, etc) should have at least vague indicators in the game’s UI.
Perhaps a system that slowly reveals additional information as your crew learns to operate the tank. “Realism” and utility, everyone’s happy.