Storm commenting on bad tanks


Hello everyone,

you might remember the post, where Storm was asking players, which tanks they consider really nasty/uncomfortable to drive. Well, today, he posted an analysis he made from that post. The analysis is available here (as MS Excel file), here it is:


Vehicle How much uncomfortable it is Tier
SU-101 (traverse) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 8
AMX 40 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 4
КВ-5 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 8
VK-4502 P +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 9
Churchill Gun Carrier +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 6
СУ-100М1 (depression) ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 7
Maus ++++++++++++++++++++++++ 10
M3 Lee +++++++++++++++++++++++ 4
Leopard PT-A ++++++++++++++++++++++ 9
А-44 (увн) ++++++++++++++++++++ 7
Lorrain 40t ++++++++++++++++++++ 9
Jg.Pz IV +++++++++++++++++ 6
T28 Prototype +++++++++++++++++ 8
ARL V39 +++++++++++++++++ 6
Pz.sfl.V (stock) ++++++++++++++++ 7
А-32 ++++++++++++++++ 4
M6A2E1 ++++++++++++++++ 8
Т7 СС ++++++++++++++ 2
Aufklarerpanzer Panther +++++++++++++ 7
T95 (terribly slow) +++++++++++++ 9
СУ-26 ++++++++++++ 3
Pz5/4 +++++++++++ 6
КВ-4 +++++++++++ 8
B1 +++++++++++ 4
AMX M4 45 +++++++++++ 7
VK 30.01 (P) (stock) ++++++++++ 6
FV4202 +++++++++ 10
BDR G1 B +++++++++ 5
AMX 38 +++++++++ 3
T21 ++++++++ 6
СУ-122-54 +++++++ 9
А-43 +++++++ 6
Т25/2 +++++++ 7
M46 Patton +++++ 9

The “how much uncomfortable it is” column represents the times Russian players mentioned the vehicle as uncomfortable in the query article. However, about half of all Russian posts were completely ridiculous (some idiot was putting there E75, Tiger and such). However, Storm states that this does not mean that from next patch they will start buffing everything like hell, but this post does mean that the vehicles mentioned above will be reviewed, more detailed statistics will be collected and after such analysis, decisions, whether it is necessery to rebalance such vehicle or not will be made.

From the discussion:

- 99 percent of the SU-101 whine was about its traverse
- for now, the Sixth Sense perk will not be touched, Storm states that all perks and skills need complete review, but there’s no time to do that for now
- a player suggested that maybe Wargaming is giving in to whiners with such steps, Storm replied: “Democracy (in development) never led to any good. Decisions will be made independently (on whiners).”

112 thoughts on “Storm commenting on bad tanks

      • Kazomir what is wrong about the kv-5 its a good tank and prem tanks are meant to be weaker than a elite tank of the same tier.

      • Actually I find the KV-5 quite underpowered.The gun lacks penetration (without gold) and the armor is unreliable.Sure if you can get in a good position and side scrape its a beast but overall it`s not a very good tank.Even more,compared to the IS-6 it becomes obsolete.The best thing about the KV-5 is that it has a lot of HP meaning you`ll survive more and that it has high DPM and low ammo cost,so it`s a good moneymaker,oh and it can ram.

        • KV-5 and IS-6 are the only tanks that I fire gold with and I actually prefer the KV-5 over the IS-6 because the armor is so good all around and you when you wiggle the tank they can’t hit the R2D2 reliably.

          • well the IS6 is just a IS with the usual 122mm, more flat armor, and better rpm…in fact i only can pwn when i THINK of it that way. otherwise i’d lose in it horribly.

            ps: gold shell = less skill. therefore i never use them, improving my skills DYI. you can ALWAYS damage something.

        • Had the KV-5 for a long time. The problems I had were the utter lack of penetration in the gun, the armor being full of massive holes, and that with the successive creep of penetration in the guns, they keep seeing fit to nerf normalization, which hurt the KV-5 (and the Maus), far more than it ever helped them.
          Then it seemed like everyone was on the look out for KV-5s on top of hills, which made it exceedingly frustrating as I couldn’t even get a ram in. Playing the KV-5 was an exercise in anger management, as I wanted to break something physically. Finally just sold it.

          • As for KV-5 on hills…

            Whenever I’m near a KV-5 or KV-4 that’s above me, I pay utmost attention to them and try to take out their tracks. No way am I taking 500+ damage from a ram.

            • I have done a 1000 damage rams on IS-3′s and Panthers that were below me on the hill on El Halluf.

        • I still do over 1700 damage per game with only 5 apcr in KV-5, so I’d say they’re right in saying that democracy sucks: most wot players have no clue, you can’t rely on them to tell you which tank to rebalance.

          • My KV-5 has 6 apcr, enough to kill a tier 9 tank when needed . No more, no less. Normal shells are enough to pen tier 7 and below. Of cause all buff are wellcome, but i afraid of trade back come with it.

  1. “a player suggested that maybe Wargaming is giving in to whiners with such steps, Storm replied: “Democracy (in development) never led to any good. Decisions will be made independently (on whiners).””

    This statement kinda made me uncomfortable.

  2. “- a player suggested that maybe Wargaming is giving in to whiners with such steps, Storm replied: “Democracy (in development) never led to any good. Decisions will be made independently (on whiners).””

    Missing the Soviet days are we Storm?

    Seriously though, half of the vehicles on this list are not bad to play, they’re just unconventional and people aren’t willing to learn how to adapt to the unique playstyle.

      • then let’s put you through a test:

        1.Say, we went back in time to Emperor Nero, who slaughtered his own people and was absolutely crazy. would you: A. Applaud him B. Respect him C. Hate him.

        2. Say you were a soviet worker, you work hard for your wage, and try to earn a decent living. But the guy next to you is lazy as hell and earns the same pay. would you: A. carry on and deal with it. B. ask him to do better or C. question your government.

        I could keep on with these question, but i think 2 are enough for a blind and completely stupid statement like that.

        • No one said other thing work, but democracy sucks without a question. Most of the population is too stupid to know whats good for them and the countrey… Just look at wot randoms, that’s your voting population, are you surprised things are going to shit…

            • constitutional republic? Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner. There should always be clear line where you have rights that aren’t given by government, that can’t be voted away.

        • 1. Nero, who died in a revolt against him?

          2. The lazy worker will probably get shot for being lazy, and Im fine with that.

          • In democracy, the lazy worker will become a owner of small local company and punish his hired workers for being lazy too. That is sick about democracy!

          • if you really think people got shot for not doing enough work in the CCCP, you are one big uneducated idiot.

        • 2.Well,the scenario you described isn`t picturing a perfect society but it`s not terrible either.
          Let me present to you another scenario:You are working 14 hours a day so your kids would have something to eat,or even worse,you`re unemployed and you can`t find a job so you can`t even take care of your family basic needs while the guy next to you sleeps 14 hours a day and he gets drunk every night because and he will not work a day in his life because he`s father owns i don`t know what company.
          So there`s democracy for you.

  3. I’m shocked with a lot of those being here. SU-101, SU-100M1, SU-122-54, A-44 and A-43 aren’t bad at all. Looks like there’s a lot of noobs in Russia.

    • You didn’t play on RU server so you don’t know. I myself is from Ru, but I tried to play on US and EU serves. The gameplay differs very much. I can’t use my usual tactics on this servers. You don’t play like we play.

      • can you tell me how you play then? no, really, i want to know. and what do you mean by usual tactics?

        • I play on both the RU and NA servers (8k and 1k games respectively).
          The biggest difference I notice is the playerbase. On the NA server, there seems to be a bigger disparity between good players and bad players. What I mean is that the average battle has 3-6 green, blue, and purple players (>1200 WN7) and then a bunch of red players (<1000 Wn7). Battles on the RU server have a smoother distribution, filled primarily with a lot of orange players (hovering around the 1000-1200 WN7 range).

          I chalk this up to the approach the different cultures take to gaming: Russians tend to pick 1 game and play it over and over forever. Americans tend to play a bunch of different games, alternating between them depending on their current preferences. Therefore, I think the NA server tends to have more "deer" and "deer hunters" while the RU server just has a bunch of daily players of varying skill levels.

    • i think most of them are just bad players with crappy crews, but for me kv5 a-44, a-43, vk4502b arent bad at all with proper tactics

      also tanks like the jpz4 improves a lot with gold, since already has great cammo and agility.

  4. Some of these are bloody ridiculous…
    However states that the AMX M4 is a bad tank is wrong. It may be big, but has some often overlooked strengths that make it a very capable tier7.
    Maus terrible? No, gold ammo flying around is killing the maus, it’s not the vehicle’s fault, it’s the metagame (ie: play one game full gold, play one tier 8 premium to compensate)

    However, SU-101 and AMX40? Yeah, those have to change. If you can’t tweak their pseudo-historical layouts, buff the soft stats to hell.

  5. I understand and agree with most of these tanks but the BDR, really? Throw the 90 on that thing and be not a complete fucktard and you’ll hard carry nearly every tier 5 game you’re in. Tier 6 and 7 just try not to bounce or use gold like any other tier 5, shit offhand I think it has the highest normal round pen for the tier (tds aside).

    KV-5 also is only “uncomfortable” cause of the R2D2, I have one and hate the damn gunner but eh what are you gonna do about it.

    • My KV-5′s performance has dropped considerably. You can hide the R2-D2, but the commander’s cupola is weak, turret face is weak, everyone’s slinging gold.

      • KV5 was fun before a lot of T9 tanks had guns with 250+ penetration.
        Also premium shells for credits on lower tier tanks made a lot of them capable of penetrating the turret and other spots.

  6. I can see 90% of those tanks having actual trouble, some i really do not believe need any treatment what so ever. Such as the KV-5(no tier 10′s, gold round spam = win) and the M46 Patton(what the hell is wrong with this tank???)
    I do see some missing tanks, that i wished were brought up, such as the M48 Patton(worst nub, in tier 10?)

  7. How bad is the traverse on the SU-101? I don’t have it yet but it doesn’t seem that bad on paper.
    The KV-5 isn’t bad, you just gotta wiggle it (or drive it rear end first).
    Is the Shoe Tank actually that bad?
    Why is the Lorraine 40t up there? Is it because it’s just a medium AMX 50 100?
    The JP4 isn’t that bad, it has more speed and armor than the German heavies or meds at the same tier.
    KV-4?????? That thing is amazing!

  8. Nothing wrong with the SU101. Just forces you to think about where youre going to go, and how you have to position. And I like that its so damn maneuverable, which is a nicely complements the completely reasonable gun traverse.

  9. Shit. I just finished SU100M1 grind and SU-101 is next. I know it’s not that good for a T8 TD, but this makes me ask myself whether to continue the line or not :/

    • If you liked the SU-100M1, you’ll like SU-101. It’s not as easy to play as with SU-100M1 but it can even carry a battle once in a while.

      • Well, tbh i find SU-100M1 quite fun and good TD eventhough i didn’t thought it is before is started playing it. And SU-101 kind of looks like the same kind of TD. Only thing i certainly am not going to like about it is the shitty pen on the top gun. Most of the T8 TDs can reliably pen T8 heavies with their top guns. With SU-101 you’ll need to aim for weakspots really carefully.

    • I agree, there is nothing major wrong with the tank, it just needs HESH to do what HESH should do (rather than what HE does) and it will be great.

      • Yea. Grabbed from Wiki:
        HESH rounds are thin metal shells filled with plastic explosive and a delayed-action base fuze. The plastic explosive is “squashed” against the surface of the target on impact and spreads out to form a disc or “pat” of explosive. The base fuze detonates the explosive milliseconds later, creating a shock wave that, owing to its large surface area and direct contact with the target, is transmitted through the material. In the case of the metal armor of a tank the compression shock wave is conducted through the armour to the point where it reaches the metal/air interface (the hollow crew compartment), where some of the energy is reflected as a tension wave. At the point where the compression and tension waves intersect a high-stress zone is created in the metal, causing pieces of steel to be projected off the interior wall at high velocity. This fragmentation by blast wave is known as spalling, with the fragments themselves known as spall. The spall travels through the interior of the vehicle at high velocity, killing or injuring the crew, damaging equipment, and/or igniting ammunition and fuel.

  10. I have to disagree with the Churchill Gun Carrier from my experience. I had a thoroughly good time with it after I got the top gun. Played 117 matches in it total, and have a 57% WR, 42% survival rate, 1.56 destruction ratio, and 1.67 damage ratio in it.

    Haven’t played any of the other tanks in the first 10 of the list, but I’m sure I could find a way to play them to their strengths well. People just need to learn2play the game and adapt to different tanks.

    • Well but a good player can make any tank look good :D Compared to the other tanks the CGC is fucking horrid.

  11. I do see a small trend of vehicles that are listed because of gun depression or because they are slow. What that tells me more than anything else is poor map design. If the maps were better, like Ensk for example, these complaints would decrease a lot and these vehicles more liked. However, it was rather the introduction of such maps as Redshire, Steppes and Highway that sees these things become a problem, same goes for gun depression, you have terrible gun depression and get on El Halluf? good luck! i hope you like sitting in the back.

  12. How the hell can people bitch about the ARLV39, I LOVED that tank with the 105mm. It is the only tank I have a Pools medal in, I ran a 63% WR with it, and avg’d about 3x kills and damage with it. The ARLV39 is frikkin awesome!!! Buncha whiney bitches don’t know how to play that type of TD it sounds to me.

    Storm, don’t fuck with the ARLV39! It is better than a Hellcat!

  13. I’m surprised the tier 5,6,7 brit heavies didn’t make the list, slow, low depression, awkward turret placement and low pen, the are not exactly thrilling to use.

    • The tier 5 is awesome! i had to do the think with 30 kills to get 1 mil
      Got more then 30 kills in 13 battle (no kill steal) + 77% win rate and unicum stats on the tank lol :P

  14. Ofc somehow the German Tier 2 G.Pz. Mk. VI (e) and Tier 3 Sturmpanzer I Bison are completely left off the list…

    AMX 40 could use some help in the form of Tier 4 only MM and the M3 Lee in the form of Tier 4-5 MM only.


  15. “Democracy (in development) never led to any good. Decisions will be made independently (on whiners).”

    Refer to Mass Effect 3 Endings and the plot black holes therein plz.

  16. SU-101 has too high traverse speed ? Because it is pretty fast and it was fun to play. SU-122-54 is much worse because of the low depression. But it is still pretty fast.

  17. It’s strange that the Pz.sfl.V (with its top gun) is not on the top of the list. This is by far the worst TD in WoT, since it has NO speed, NO armor, NO camo and only a good top gun, which is quite unreliable and thus far from being a very good gun. This TD needs a buff soon (like a real Tier X gun, not this castrated piece of shit).

    It’s even worse than the SU-100M1, which has at least camo, speed and gold ammo. WG was stoned when they released the Pz.sfl.V to the live servers with these awful characteristics.

    • They did it on purpose because Sturet Emil was one of the tanks with most hype about it before the release. They made it as shittier as possible just so it won’t overflood the game and to flame all the fans of that TD that expected at least decent TD. All the OP places are reserverd for russkie stronk tenks

      • There may be also an economical reason: encourage players to spend free XP in order to skip the Sturer Emil and get to the Rheinmetall Waffenträger.

        Perhaps we can expect a buff of the Emil in 2014. Right now, it is a REAL pain to drive this “thing”.

  18. It’s not a surprise that the SU-26 is on the list, because currently it does not have a top gun – the new 76 mm SUCKS, not worth to use it, i use the STOCK gun, the only useful gun on the SU-26 now.

    • JPIV is the most consistently complained about tank since early beta. It simply has no outstanding plus point.

      As for Leo prot. I don’t see what there is to complain about there. I think if you asked the EU or NA players though the list would be quite different.

    • I have the stock Leo PT A in my garage and it’s a garbage. I can’t play a snigle nice battle with it. Even with 100%crew and equipment I miss almost every 2nd shot. Sometimes my shot bounces off from an AMX 13. It has 0 depression and 0 armor,almost every shot damages the ammorack,and tier 10 tanks easily oneshot me with HE. I have ca. 30 battles with it and 28% win rate,every 2nd/3rd battles is like 0-1-2-3:15. And then the team roars with me that I’m trying to snipe,because an MT has to flank and scout…sure. I know that with the better gun it will be a monster(on test server it was),but now it’s a pain in the ass,I still need 50.000XP for the gun…

  19. SU-101 time to list why it’s the worst;

    Worst gun of T8 TD’s
    Worst HP of T8 TD’s
    Very little to no armour (mantle is only actual armour)
    -2 degs of gun depression

    What this makes is a TD that thinks it’s a medium tank but it’s still worse than any T8 in game.

    • Not the worst gun of T8 TD, the D-54S is competitive against SA47 and 20 pdr Type.B.
      And the armor…well the RhM-B WT, ISU have worse, but you can hardly complain about that.

      • The D1 get’s penned almost every time by the T18′s 75mm HE shot. Which means… one shot kill. Oherwise, with no T18s around it is a pretty solid tank, not because of the armor, but thanks to the great rof gun.

    • The D1 is insanely good with its low MM. The D2 is worse off in that it gets pulled into higher games. And the DW2 is one of the few tanks worth just skipping entirely.

  20. I can’t understand how some people find bad tanks i had awesome amounts of fun like kv4, su26(prior the nerf),m3 lee,amx 38 , jagdpanzer 4 or even the FV4202 that is possibly my favourite tank even if i tried it only on test servers.
    I also can’t understand people saying jagdpanzer 4 is bad i did 9 kill on it and it has always been a solid, manouverable, and powerful tank,and the kv4 can just bounce tier 10 shells and is completely immune to tier 6 and 7 guns.
    Seriously, what is your problem guys?

    • Immune to tier 6s?
      Killed one in my M6 a few battles ago.
      90mm goes through frontal weakspots no problem.
      And to add insult to injury, my M6 with 54 HP rammed him to deal the finishing blow, and survived.

      Was absolutely hillarious

  21. KV-5 is shit. Armor is shit, everything but the hull is a weakspot. Gun is shit, no depression, no accuracy, no penetration. I don’t mind low penetration I know them weakspots. But with shitty accuracy you ain’t gonna hit em.

    While I don’t think armor or gun penetration will ever be buffed, it should at least get awesome depression, quicker aim time and better accuracy.

  22. Nobody react to 2 tanks :
    >VK 30.01 (P) (stock)
    >VK-4502 P

    From my experience (ofc):
    The VK 30.01 (P) stock is really, really a bad tank. I fully agree with them, it’s really hard to play with it! At least it’s not easy to do some useful thing in a battle.
    But when upgrade (and ofc moreover when full upg.) it’s really a good tank, one of my favourite tank. But you need to go trough the difficult stock.

    VK-4502 P: this time I really don’t understand them. Since it’s not the stock ver. I’ll talk about the full ver.
    For me it’s a good tank, a very good tank. Play with it in 5/7 modes and you’ll understand what I mean. He’s quite fast and have a good gun (not as good as the last of the Tiger II but good enough).

  23. AMX 40 - it’s pretty much a free frag against T6 and obviously kinda boring since it’s slow as hell, but generally I’d say it’s acceptable, especially after grindng through AMX 38.
    M3 Lee - it’s completely fine as it is, noobs need to learn playing it.
    Jg.Pz IV - was a real pain in the ass for me start to finish. Not really sure what to do with it though, it never seemed to me as a bad TD on it’s own, it’s just the enemy tends to be too strong to take on, so maybe drop T8 battles.
    ARL V39 – still in the process of researching. Without the better guns it’s bad, but somehow I doubt fully researched ARL will be.
    Т7 СС – laughable. Expected it to be faster, shouldn’t meet T3 tanks at all, even against T2 it’s mostly joke.
    Aufklarerpanzer Panther – stock is useless. I’m yet to play with Konish.
    SU-26 – ever since arties were stretched to tier 10 this was not quite as good. It’s not bad, but either stronger gun or aim buff would be nice.
    B1 – it’s bad against T5, but I guess that’s the reason it does not meet T6. I’d leave it as it is, maybe alter the match spread to meet T5s less.
    VK 30.01 (P) (stock) - there were some rebalances since I’ve played it, back then I really hated stock.
    BDR G1 B – what is this even doing here.
    AMX 38 – all I remember was pushing forward all the way to the enemy base without getting to shoot at anything. Was worse for me than AMX 40.
    T21 – it’s not bad, but it’s… meh.
    А-43 – I rather like it, although recently I was considering selling it. Guess I mostly like the playstyle, but the gun is not good enough to be as agressive as I’d like.

      • Nah. Stock grind wasn’t bad. Stock gun has decent dpm and plenty of pen.
        Play the tank like a light, flank, be as opportunistic as possible and let others take the hits.
        Get the turret first to reduce aim time and reload time, only then go for the gun. Just remember, Dpm is low with the top gun (beaten by alecto, su85b…) so don’t get into brawling matches.

  24. Nice to see SU-100M1 and SU-101 so high up that list since I’m actually planning to go down that line first, heh.

  25. “Decisions will be made independently (on whiners).”
    Yes, that’s true!
    Oh, wait, wasn’t there this 8.6-Patch?

  26. I like my KV-5 and my IS-6 ( my is-6 is my tier 8 brawler tank in Team Battles ) its okay i guess that you asked the players on the RU server but … to get another set of answers … talk to the EU & NA players to get what they think are the tanks they dont like or do like for your list ….. Just relying on one Server kinda makes the survey skewed if you ask me because they dont represent all World of Tank Players from around the world

    just my 2 cents worth