On tier 10 Japanese heavy tank

Source: SerB’s answers

Hello everyone,

SerB postad today a bit more info about the potential Japanese tier heavy 10 tank. Let’s have a look at the pictures and text he posted.




SerB states that this info came from a personal archive of a Soviet engineer named Grigoriev, who was tasked with using the foreign tank design experience for Soviet benefit and left some notes, that were acquired this summer by the Wargaming publishing company Taktikal Press and currently are in Wargaming’s archives.

This tank project was designated “Type 2604″ and had two 12 cylinder BMW marine engines with a rather complicated cooling system of three radiators per engine and one oil radiator, cooled by two central massive ventilators, powered by the drive train. The air is sucked in via massive grilles, positioned in the center over the engine compartment. Further description of the cooling system follows and Grigoriev notes that the main advantage of the design was high protection of the engine from overheating.

Another such project was “Type 2605″ with 35 percent smaller engine compartment volume for the same kind of engine, apparently keeping the same cooling abilities. Again, most of what is described is the cooling system with a ventilator of 950mm diameter.

Grigoriev also mentions there was a wooden “O-I” mockup, that replaced the twin BMW engines with one Daimler Benz 12 cylinder water-cooled diesel engine. He later again describes the cooling system and notes that the advantage of the design was the good ventilation of the crew compartment, but only when the engine was running. He notes that the disadvantage is the reduced access to the engine by having to remove some parts of the cooling system (the radiator).

Other than that, there is no info on the armor or the cooling system, but given the info we know about its size and weight (cca 200 tons), the armor will not be as thick as the one of Maus (the tank seems bigger) and the gun will be massive (judging from the size of the drawing – 150-200mm?). I am sure we will learn more info soon.

85 thoughts on “On tier 10 Japanese heavy tank

    • How will this be nice? A tank as slow as the Maus but weaker armor?

      Even if it had a JPZE gun which it wont, it couldnt make it long enough to bring it to the fight.

      It will be like….Vroom vroom tracked…Vroom tracked. Meanwhile since we have broken TD`s ingame that have 4500mm Heat and 300mm AP all at 850 Alpha it will last all of 30 secs.

      Sorry but Huge guns only work on fast glass cannons or fast tanks period,

      Look at JPZ100, amazing armor, amazing gun….Shit TD.
      Look at Waffle amazing gun, great in class speed and flexability…Great TD

      Look at T6 heavies Kv1s great speed and huge gun=Best in class
      Look at Hellcat shit armor amazing speed great gun=Best in class

      Maus, amazing armor shit speed= Worst in class

      Sorry guys but this will not be good unless they make it very fast compared to Maus, hell thats why E100 is great its 2x as fast as Maus.

      • It depends on the player and on how WG will balance it… no need for you to go all “ur mai gaud, its auwfull!!!” since it isn’t even in the game at all.

        Stay calm, its New Year’s Eve ;)

        • Im calm, it just doesnt look good at all.

          I wont want it at all because it looks bad.

          Its everything the STB-1 which is my favorite tank isnt.

          Its flat Armored with less of it than the MAUS.

          Also you realize WG already says the MAUS is fine right? So if they think the MAUS is fine then they could build a horrible POS like this.

          But what im in awe about is that some of you think it might look good…..

          Flat engine compartment with open vents and no armor on a super slow tank like the Tog…With a flat front mantlet while our Meds shoot 330 HEAT rounds. Tell me you think the frontal armor will be 300m raw thickness? Of course not.

          If it looks anything like the drawing and is 150-200 tons with similiar speed as even the E100 its busted.

            • To be honest, I think this tank will be a beast.

              Huge health (maybe even more than the maus), huge gun, huge gun depression (-10 at least, maybe even up to -15, the huge turret and low frontal hull allow even -20) .
              It will be able to trade shots very efficiently. Even if your every shot is a trade one for one, yo will still be able to inflict massive damage.

              • 15 degrees with a huge guns breech block? Lol

                The throw from a long 128mm is 3 feet. Lol look at how tall the MAUS was and it had -6. Every -1 has to have another drastic change since it was already tight.

                Lets say it has -10. You would still have to try to use it hull down in which arty will murder you.

                Also why would it have more HP than MAUS? Sorry but a 220+ ton tank beats a 150-200 ton tank in HP most times. But hey even if it had 3500 HP that goes soooo fast now days with Waffles and Foch`s and 268`s oh my.

                My point is not that it alone with Heavies wouldnt do well. Its that in general Superheavies are bad now days with Arty, and TD`s that are 2x better than most heavies in pubs. Hell you cant even see TD`s firing at you until your at knife range.

                Its only hope is its 3x faster than Maus.

                • I will agree with you that super heavies are being outclassed by massive TDs and the like and this tank may not be very good (I’ll have to wait and see but like you said it probably won’t be) BUT as far as the HP/tonnage ratio, the Maus is only 190 tons, not 220+ so depending on how heavy this tank really is it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that it may have more HP than the Maus. However, HP means very little these days when you have TDs slamming you for 850-1000+ alpha and you don’t have any armor to back it up so even if it has 3300hp or something like that it won’t mean much if it’s armor is shit.

                • >Also why would it have more HP than MAUS? Sorry but a 220+ ton tank beats a 150-200 ton tank in HP most times. But hey even if it had 3500 HP that goes soooo fast now days with Waffles and Foch`s and 268`s oh my.

                  According to a friend of mine who drives the thing, the Maus can take a massive beating of 6000 damage or more, minimum, if you know how to drive it.

                  Just don’t get caught out of position.

                  Additionally, hp is a balance parameter. This thing could see 4000 hp if that’s what WG deigns necessary for proper balance.

        • It still isnt the gun that makes it bad. Its the super heavy concept.

          Back when all there was were IS7`s shooting no gold, and the most pen you could EVER see was 704`s shooting 286 Pen, the Maus was amazing.

          Now Meds have 330 pen Heat, TD`s have 300mm AP and 400mm+Heat and almost ever Gold round is suited to hurt Maus`s turret.

          Also since TD`s have massive viewrange slow tanks are just bad at closing distancve and living.

          • Chad Mesiroff do you have a suggestion of a tier 10 japanese heavy? Perhaps WG should make a fantasy machine like the WT E-100. They could make a tier 10 japanese with heavy and sloped armor. Personally I dont care i will get the tank no matter how shit it is as I enjoy collecting tanks.

            • I almost wish they would make up a tank TBH.

              Im sick to death of failure tanks. I want balance. I wont probably play it, but I dont want other players who have waited for the Japanese line to get a POS out of the gate just because we are being slaves to “Realism”.

              This game is soooo outside realism already its not even funny, and somethings “Made up” are the most balanced things in WOT….

              T32`s 105mm, M46`s made up 105mm, KT having 105mm, Tiger using L71 88mm, Hell the E100, E50 and E75, remember how bad germans became before the E`s?

              How about using a E50 which is massive as a Med? Or a Vk2801 as a light? How about giving engines that were crappy magical crankshafts that perform way better?

              All this for balance…Might as well go all the way.

              TBH I could see it being a T9 tank and Bullying at T9 or T8, but at T10`s with TD`s the way they are and even with nerf to 750 DMG….Its dead fast.

              Also to guys saying it might be beter armored it wont. Maus was 190 Tons and this is 150ish and much bigger….Sorry but Armor on the tiny M60 changed from 93mm to 110mm and just the plate increased by 1500 lbs. Imagine using armor 150mm thick and adding 20 square feet….Lol

            • Noob tanks? You mean OP tanks that when used by good players dominate T6`s? Then yes.

              Hell when I see a Tog in anything or Tog platoons its to easy. All you do is dont let them rush you. Stay very far back and kill them all day long.

        • The TOG is successful when it has support. Get a TOG alone, especially against something it can’t close the distance to and spot, and it dies fairly easily. Track a TOG in the open and watch it explode in under 10 seconds from combined enemy team fire+artillery having a hard-on for large, slow/prone targets.

          The only reason that TOG platoons work so well is because of the absurd amount of HP between them and the tendency of random teams to not focus fire. Both of these help the platoon close the distance to the point that things consistently light up and they can return fire with their (pretty damn good really) 17pdrs.

          In summary, the TOG works because randoms are generally *stupid*. If the Japanese tank turns out to be similar, it’ll be successful to some degree for the same reason. It’s going to need a LOT of health to deal with things like the ridiculously unbalanced Waffletraktor and Foch, though.

          • Don’t pretend you know anything about the TOG, it’s the best premium tank to play solo in WoT… 1.2k+ battles, 64% wr, AND 60% survival ratio. If the japanese superheavy will be similar to gameplay in TOG it will be a f*cking monster. ;-)

            • Well then I hope to see you use it against players who know how to play in the next CW campaign :)

              I`ll love to see your Tog every game.

              Truth is if you can do that in a tog you can do that in 50% of tanks in game.

      • Actually before gold shells for credits, Maus could survive a lot(well not in open against 5 pre nerf arties ofc) but now since gold shell spam I do not play it at all.

        • You all realize that WoT has managed to parallel history, right? By the end of WW2 gun technology was outstripping armor, making the super heavy concept pointless UNLESS they were fast and could carry a bigger gun than mediums… Seeing as they never could carry a bigger gun and go fast, the whole heavy tank concept died (until chobham armor made 70 ton monsters viable again). It’s no surprise a game made to at least somewhat mirror reality has arrived at similar conclusions to reality.

          • WoT has nothing in common with real tank warfare. Maus is bad in WoT for completely different reasons than in real life.

            • Then I encourage you: do go ask Egyptian t-10 crews how their tanks fared against Israeli centurions and m-48s, even eliminating the effect of air power.
              Then, think about the common wot complaint of super heavies being penned by mediums and TDs. WoT is a (large) exaggeration of real tank warfare to make it a fun game rather than a nerve racking ordeal, but it’s roots still show.

            • WoT is quite analogous to real life, except for two major differences: hitpoint system and engagement range (gun accuracy). Oh, and I suppose the non-physical camouflage system and ability to dramatically manoeveur and shoot on the move in WWII era tanks.

              It’s the hitpoints in particular that invert the normal practice of tanks, making the artificial DPM and alpha-based dynamics. In real life it is all about accuracy, penetration and rate of fire; hitting and penetrating as many separate vehicles as possible as quickly as possible. Calibre is largely a consequence of these characteristics or requirements for a HE/burst round.

              I would agree that the obsolescence of (super) heavy tanks in WoT is related to real life results. If your armour can be defeated by the enemy (especially by artillery or aircraft), why drive a slow, large tank that is easy to see and hit? True you tend to get more hitpoints, but this is not really sufficient compensation for the poor vision dynamics (you can be spotted and shot by ‘invisible tanks’ and don’t have the speed to escape or assault).

              That being said, if you luck into being on the right maps, with no enemy SPGs, against bad players who don’t even carry premium rounds, I’m sure you can dominate where lighter tanks couldn’t as well (bouncing rounds for the team, etc).

        • This is my point…Unless WOT changes the MAUS is gone. And the superheavy dead.

          Why am I getting attacked for pointing this out?

          Because peeps wanna hang on to there lovely tanks, Be my guest but admit they are bad.

  1. Oh Japan…
    sounds like we have some awesome stuff coming…. one day ;)

    I guess eta 2015-2016, since 2014 is supposed to be the year of gameplay/graphics/shenanigans.

    • Once more awesome? Your smoking crack.

      Flat armor, thinner armor than Maus [which already is not enough armor for TD`s ingame] Flat armor even at 300mm plates isnt enough guys since heat exists, it could be penned by a T10 Med.

      Also those huge airvents ontop of engine mean HUGE!!!! Arty targets, and once engine is killed a 200 ton tank=dead.

      Foch= 850 x 3 pens vs Maus which means vs this.
      268= 850 every 15 secs vs this
      Waffle= 3/4 pens vs Maus turret or 4/4 on sides or lower plate with 3300 HP in 12 secs
      183=Pen every time with AP

      T57 Gold = Pen all 4 rounds vs Maus turret

      Once more…this is horrible looking.

      HEAT murders flat armor and that armor and jap meds up until T8 are all flat shaped

        • So you cant refute any points, so its be quiet..Lol love you cute little baddies who see “BIG TANK, JAPANESE TANK, NEW SHINY TANK…..LOOKS AWESOME!!!”

          Your a dink if you think this looks good.

          Just like the tards who defended the JPZE100, while all of us reasonable guys said it would suck if they didnt drastically change it. And guess what it was same argument…Look how cool it looks.

          • Pff, who cares? I’m voicing my opinion that I will definetly drive it, just because it is Japanese.I don’t care if it goes 5 km/h and has a pom pom gun, I’ll still drive it.

            You hate it? Fine, nobody is forcing you to like it. ANd you shouldn’t force your opinion to others.

          • Seriously, are you on crack? You told us once, you told us twice but enough is enough.

            We get it, you don’t like the Japanese heavy tank. We U N D E R S T A N D, and we respect your opinion, so please respect ours and stop being a person no one likes in the room because it has always something to say on every topic and his opinion is the only right one, ok?

            Thanks :)

        • See now 113 is pimp.

          Why not give us a Japanese STB-1 big tank?

          STB-1 is amazing and much better for now days games. Angle depression speed great turret armnor for speed and beastly DPM.

          They need to start making tanks better suited to there own attributes.

          Like, STB hull armor sucks, but its angle well so it will get bounces. Its Turret is well armored and it has -10 degrees so it can actually use that depression, and has 3k DPM so it can use it more.

          Wiith a giant slow moving tank that has LESS armor than Maus, how is expected to do well when the MORE armored slow tank is the worst?

          If anything make it a TD, with a turret and ungodly gun and crazt front armor where it can sit in an alley way and murder. But as a heavy its expected to be an assault tank and it will die fast.

          The more we get happy just because its japanese the more we get screwed on tanks.

          When I started T110e5 Epic thread on NA forums guys told me same thing “Stop whining, the US line is fine” and it wasnt even close. So we fought WG tooth and nail at every turn and guess what we got a badass E5, then we got a badass T57 and a Badass group of TD`s and now the tank I pushed for all along might be here in the T96 and T95.

          It pays to call a shit tank a shit tank…Hel lWG even asked us guys in the T110e5 our opinion on what we would like before it was released. Before we had input the Armor was like a M103`s now and it was slower than IS7 with onlt 300 DPM more.

          In other words we would have gotten a Slower, worse armored IS7 if we would have just been happy and I hadnt started the T110 thread and got so many awesome guys to help me

          • The tank’s stats arent even out yet, maybe when they are out, people will cry ‘OMG OP VEHICUL NURF NURF NURF”

            • You’re witnessing something amazing, Chad’s either the worst troll ever,
              or what usually happens when someone gets too drunk on new year’s eve, but not drunk enough to be unable to start up the computer.

              Just ignore it.

            • The JPZE100 stats wernt out and we all knew it would suck.

              Its very easy to see. We knew the JPZE would have E100 lower and upper almost inpennable. We also knew massive gun with huge pen.

              But its not the tank thats bad its that the game in its current form promotes speed and huge DPM as a whole.

              Otherwise it promotes HUGE Camo and huge Burst DPM.

              Eitherway sincle gold rounds and HEAT are great vs thick flat armor, and since TD`s at T10 do more DPM, have more pen are more accurate and have 50% better camo and view range combo and have decent speed [Foch, 268, Waffle] please tell me how it will be good as a superheavy?

              The entire concept of Super heavies suck in game minus the E100, which is what? A hugely angled and skirted monster….Your telling me this box shape is better sjaped than the E100? Also your saying maybe it wont be like this box shape? Then why release the drawings?

              Maus sucks, JPZE100 sucks, JT sucks…..This is a copy of those type tanks so logic says…

                • JT was awesome when its DPM was highest in game in T9 or above. With gold its now one of the worst.

                  Yeah a front superstructure with a 240 armor scheme and no camo..best in class.

                • Didnt you read the balancing graph on it? JT was lower than its players winrate by 2% It was one of most under performing.

                  Just because you have love for the JT because its history in RL or its past ingame when it was amazing doesnt make it balanced or good now.

                  What are your stats in it?

                • And guess what counts the most on heavy tanks? Oh thats right the UFP and LFP.

                  Compared to the other 40 and 50 degree designs its 60 degree was revolutionary. It has similar shape to E50 where as Jpanese heavy is like a british flat tank.

              • >Maus sucks, JPZE100 sucks, JT sucks…..This is a copy of those type tanks so logic says…

                You know, I was calmly entertained by this bad rash of 20 Chad Mesiroff’s campaign trail debates-cum-rants, but then you just gone and did it. You called one of the most accurate, rapid fire, superstructure impervious, gun depression, greatest sniper tanks that makes a Tiger I look like child with a snapcap gun ‘sucky.’

                You’re talking about the same tank which mounts the WT E-100s gun, when the WT E-100 is considered extremely overpowered because it has absolutely no armor and a six shot autoloader with a minute long reload. The tank can hold a fucking line.

                Also, what the hell is with you and the belief that every tank always loads gold? Do you suppose that every game is a clan war match?

                • Have you got the DMG announcer yet? It tells you what people fire.

                  At T10 matches you can expect 75% gold shells. And when playing E100 or Maus its more like 90%.

                  Also lol at Waffle is inferior to the other and cant hold line….Its so inferior it wins 4% more than its players avg!!!

                  Once more call me names and dont use facts.

        • Maybe for pubs, I managed 60% wins on the JT solo…but before the engine “rebalance”. Now I wouldn’t like it as much.

          And the upper superstructure is 250mm but angled (about 270mm), and it’s god against HEAT shells since no normalization. I had no problems carrying games hulldown without even getting penned.

          JpzE100 is worse, yes. But it’s fun to play :D

  2. Since it is a Japanese Tank, I’m expecting to be some kind of transformer, with railguns and flamethrowers. WG don’t let me down xD

  3. I am looking forward to this tank.
    Cant wait to see how it plays and how good it is at ramming. I can imagine this thing going down a mountain and destroying another tier 10 at full health.
    It looks like it might be good at sidescraping.

  4. Looks interesting. This is a very bold guess, but I’d say that the Japanese heavy tank line will end up having a high HP pool with the T10 having more HP than the Maus, I’d say 3,5-3,75k to compensate for the lack of armor.

    It looks cool though, but will this mean that the O-I will be a T9 tank, if it will be even introduced?

    • Good old Bandai advertisement…

      Get your Type 2604 now for 39,99!
      It features moveable tracks and turret!
      Seven quick steps and you transform your Type 2604 into an O-I!
      Switch back and fourth within seconds!

      Type 2604 JP Special!!!

      Grab it… NOW!

    • The O-I is going to be at teir 7 and 8. There were two different versions for it, the 100 ton and the 120 ton.

      • What I mean is, how do you like the Japanese Heavies, looks like I lost my words there earlier.

        Btw, on the word Like, I mean how would like it for the planned gameplay, I saw that the tier 10 is bigger as a Maus with no armor and not sure about speed and firepower. Japanese mediums are awesome but not sure on heavy tree, and since you are working on it would like to know your reaction on it.

  5. So basically it the Maus with less armor more HP and better gun
    and more resistance to engine fire/breakdown perhaps?

    I havent drive Maus before so I wont said much about it
    but imo I thinks it should be an interesting alternative to the Maus

    really have to wait and see

  6. Well, there is a ton of space between the gun mount and the top of the turret, so INSANE gun depression. Also you can see that there is at least a mantlet of some sort. Also it has TWO massive engines, so don’t count on this thing being “slower than the Maus”. This makes me think that this tank will be great at ramming, just by the nature of 200 tons and probably decent acceleration. Also that gun is freaking HUGE. Looks to me that this is going to be a hull-down peakaboo tank, kinda like the T30. Except that it will have enough hull armor to bounce on occasion, and enough weight to ram the crap out of anyone. Let the Maus play its own way, I have a feeling this thing will be playing differently.

  7. Hmmmm, something doesn’t look right, where does the driver sit?

    The plans show what appears to be frontal transmission, so he can’t be right at the front. The front hull looks too low to allow him to fit, but then the position of the turret basket seems to exclude a position just below the turret..

    • Remember that this thing is freaking huge. I would hazard that he sits in a semi-recumbent position, and has a hatch to stick his head out of for a better view if he sits straight up.