Hello everyone,
today, a player Frag_Attack sent me a picture of the SU-85I engine in the game, claiming the engine to be underpowered. Here it is (in German, but I am sure everyone can figure the numbers out)
The HL120TRM in Panzer III has 440hp and in SU-85I, it has 300hp. As you probably know, SU-85I came to be as a conversion of captured Panzer III hulls, using the original engine. So, is the SU-85I engine underpowered, compared to the real one?
No. It’s the Panzer III engine, that is overbuffed.
Check this out – the ultimate source on German tech, Panzer Tracts – this is from PT8, StuG Ausf.G entry:
This is from Panzer III Ausf.H entry (PT 3-2):
The engine is also rated for 300 horsepower at 3000 RPM (Schiffer, Doyle). So, the value for SU-85I is correct. What todes that mean for the Panzer III? Well… exactly what you think it does. Rebalance.
Several German engines in the game are overbuffed and with the upcoming changes to Panzer III in 9.1 (they were scheduled for 9.0, but they got postponed), chances are they will be brought to their historical values.
OMG German bias!1!1!
German tank serving under red star…. is it german bias or russian bias?
What about T-54′s engine? 700 hp when in reality it had ~580hp.
Uh oh, the cries of Russian bias will return once historically accurate stats get applied.
If we would be historically accurate the Russian tanks would be crap.
IS-2 would have 2 min/sec RoF,ISU even less (152mm shell was 50kg!!!) and they would have horrible accuracy.
Yep and half the tigers would die on game start thx to technical errors and rest would be destroyed by crew thx to lack of gasoline :P
French tanks would have flawed gearboxes ( copies of panther gearbox)
Chinese would have low crew performance (cramped like fuck)
and etc. thank god it’s just a game!
Both had quite good accuracy.
Rate of fire in WoT is almost always 1.3-2 times higher then real life.
Also… real IS-2 was actually just as accurate as Tiger… and 122mm HE shells kill Tiger crew :P
Will people please drop this crap about the IS-2 only having a RoF of 2?
That figure does NOT apply to the D-25t.
That comes from an earlier 122mm gun that had a screw breach instead of a sliding breach. The IS-2 was never equipped with this cannon.
The ISU-122 was though, for a period of time.
Ah, THAT was it!
The A-19S had a RoF of 2, not D-25t apparently.
Yes, the original A-19 howitzer had screw breech design, common for artillery weapons, which you can see in some Soviet war movies. The D-25 was semi-automatic, like most tank and anti-tank guns of the time.
well, separate shell and charge, and gun must have been positioned into 0° elevation before loading.
RoF on shooting range was usually 3-5, in combat, it was about 2
Doctrine and training states that pretty much every gun should be around 0 degrees when loading, regardless of nation. I believe that’s what the M1 manual states still
In Leopard 2 the gun is raised automatically after firing to ease the loading ;)
Exactly, is it automatic or crew is doing it ? Also isn’t it supposed to ease fume extraction ?
Yes, more historic realism with my arcade game please :\
“rebalance” german tanks again… then when will the USSR tanks’ gun depression be corrected to historical value?
They are historical. In soviet belarusia history is what WG tells you it is.
Not even mad as long as they stay out of muh frenchies and Zhongua tanke ; D
Will not matter.
WarGaming will buff hidden Ground Resistance statistics. Same mobility as before.
Which BTW is DOG SHIT INCOMPETENT level of game design.
So when’s *your* tank game coming out then?
Not soon. That is not my goal if I ever become a game designer.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 is.
Does not mean I cant criticize. BTW, lets see whether you will understand what makes that kind of balancing bad?
He doesn’t have to; Ganjin has done it for him :) LuL
There is no real difference between the StuG engine and the Pz III HL 120 TRM engines. Just a difference upon what the allowable sustained levels are. IE 2600 and 2800 rpms. Just thought I would point it out.
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/panzermotoren-R.htm
http://panzerivuniverse.phelpscomputerservices.com/Specs-02.htm
265 PS was achieved at 2600 rpm (normal rpm).
Isn’t that just what I said?
Just supplementing your point.
It would go farther than rebalancing just Panzer III, revising the 3 engines of the Panzer IV would affect most of the German low tiers the way the Tiger engines affected the higher tiers in patch 8.8
Time to have my favorite tank become a bunch of shit.
Not that it will stop me from playing it. Unless they really fuck the Panzer 4 up…..
Not only German tanks drive around with far stronger engines ingame than real.
The Super Pershing or example has the correct 500 HP engine while a stock Pershing has a stronger engine (560 HP) and top engine is insane with over 700 HP.
But the main problem with the Panzer III is that it is much too fast ingame.
They should have very similar characteristics, a Panzer III J weights even more than a Panzer IV D.
Historically both have the same engine and the same top speed.
As they slowed down the Panzer IV I expect the same to happen with the Panzer III.
First they nerf the gun mantlet on the Pz III and now the engine?
Yeah, that stupid nerf was unnecessary..
I have expected this for some time, the Pz III, as much fun as it has been, is wildly inaccurate. It’s been fun running around at near 70kph, but not very historical.
On the flip side, the Pz IV seems more fragile than it should be…
German tanks were petrol fuelled. German supply lines carried petrol for vehicles. Russian tanks were Diesel fuelled. Russian supply lines carried diesel for vehicles. Was the correct formulation of petrol fed to the captured engines? Were the correct replacement parts readily available in Russia. Were Russian mechanics as adept at working with the engine as German mechanics? Were the design lengths for intake and exhaust tracts maintained during the conversion process?
I think there may have been a disparity in performance any way.
Only the fuel formulation is of any importance. And even then it is not a big deal most engines will run on crappy fuel, they might run poorly but they will run. On top of that your not revving the engine to 3k rpms all the time anyways and likely not doing much over 2000-2100 rpms unless you really need the speed. As far as spare parts the Russians had a lot of tanks to pull parts from if they needed any. Esp for the engine as it was in used by a crapload of tanks.
And an engine is an engine is an engine. Yes it might be a little different from what a Russian mechanic would be used to but given a decent amount of time and a large supply of engines I am sure they would have it down quickly. Plus the original German manuals can be translated into Russian and reprinted. And some manuals were reprinted.
Does anybody know at what RPM these petrol engines were designed to operate at? I know from experience that long stroke diesel engines are designed to operate at their peak torque output, which in a diesel is linear and will coincide with close to max rpm. In heavy machinery with a long stroke engine, such as a bulldozer or tractor, operating at less than max torque while under load causes undue stress on the engine. Tanks, being as heavy as they are, are always under load.