Understanding Red Players – Of Noobs and Kids

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Hello, everyone. Finnish player Kantti submitted this article for publishing and I find it very, very interesting. I think that the personal experience of a father of a WoT player, who is a player himself, is something that should be considered and… well, have a look at it. I am going to keep an eye on the discussion.

Author: Kantti

Hall of Shame tells it all. People really can’t stand players,who do not perform or who they don’t think will perform due low stats. More importantly, they don’t care about even the simplest rules of social interaction, when dealing with these players.

For me, the enlightening moment was when I taught my now 7 years old kid to play on Christmas 2012 (the kid was 5,5 years then). I was ready to see how he wouldn’t perform at all and got all the rage from team players. Luckily, he couldn’t read at that point. But my surprise was quite… um…. big. I admit that the kid is skilled for his age, but still, then 5,5 year old attaining 49% WR in low tier games alone was quite surprising. Seemingly, going under 47% would take some conscious damaging of your teams efforts. It really puts into perspective how bad the worst players are. Just for curious people here to put things in perspective, here are my now 7 year old kid’s statistics. Note the amount of matches, his performance ain’t anymore due to statistical anomalies.

Battles: 3320
WN8: 284
Win rate: 48,55
Avg. exp: 202
Max. exp: 1260
Average kills: 0,40
KDR: 0,46
Hit Ratio: 42%
Battles survived: 13,7%
Ace tankers: 1
1st class: 21

First and foremost, he has played practically all his games alone. Matches we have played platooning might amount to like a hundred. His stats took a big hit when he got into tier 5-6, but lately, they have gotten into positive curve again. Seems like growing up does some tricks.

But take a look at his hit ratio. Even a kid under 7 can hit his targets (some of them moving fast) over one time in three. Compare it to those red/yellow players you’re raging at in your match. Says something about them, doesn’t it? Especially noteworthy is that my then 6 year old kid could even get one ace tanker and getting a 1st class medal is not even a rare occasion. Couple of times, I have even taken him to ESL games when we were lacking a player and to everyone’s surprise, he performed extremely well in his T1 Cunningham. In his best tournament matches, he faced 2 blue players in their T1s on the hill of Himmelsdorf and beat the shit out of them both. You have never seen me more proud. If our enemy would have known who beat them, I am quite sure it would have taken them a while before they logged in to the game again. Had to buy my kid a Matilda BP and a Dicker Max with his share of that tournaments prize money ;)

What I am trying to get you people to understand are 3 different things

1. Even the most red players can play well from time to time. WN8 doesn’t tell you everything.
2. Really horrible players can’t even match a 6 year old in skill in average. Some really deserve to be raged. ;)
3. BUT! Young kids are playing this game and there are quite a lot of them as I want to believe that there are not many teens or adults playing worse in average than my beloved offspring. Most of them are sincerely doing their best, but FFS, they are kids. What can you expect from them? They play using 1-2 fingers instead of full WASD. They just learn to observe the battlefield. They LIKE to shoot cars and houses!

My 7 year old kid is just learning to read and I am already looking for a mod disabling the private chat. Even if I tried to make it clear in my kid’s nickname that he was born in 2007, it has not been once or even thrice when I have seen a window popping up in his garage with somebody wishing him cancer and telling him to learn to shoot/play. Most of them fall silent after I check their stats and answer that they’re raging against a 7-year old, who performs on average better than them. But still, people. There are kids playing. A lot of them, statistically considered. You don’t wish cancer to a 6-year old random kid, who learns to ride his bike and sometimes falls on the street. Don’t do it here either.

As of end note, even 6-year old can really see what WoT is all about. Never has it been harder to contain my laughter when my kid dead seriously is yelling: “Daddy! Why on earth is my team playing this bad? How is it possible that they lose this game! Why they’re not even trying!”

232 thoughts on “Understanding Red Players – Of Noobs and Kids”

  1. I mean they are all idiots,it’s a game ffs what do you think stats are so importanat -.-,and at the end losing a game is nothing to rage about i never rage (ok sometimes :P),if i lose a game i can get into the next 1 but if i get 5 loses in a row i just quit WoT and chill on WT perfect for it :)

    • There’s absolutely nothing worse in life then giving 100% at work, going back home, logging in to game a bit, playing the match of your life giving it 100%, and have it all ruined by some tomato baddie that doesn’t even have the minimap open, and doesn’t have the common sense to fire at the target *before* starting to turn his hull again.

      I’m sorry but if a 6 year old playing in tandem with an 8 year old (personal experience of my own: one on the keyboard, one on the mouse) can read a minimap correctly, and have the patience to aim, a grown ass man can do the same and not fuck it up for 14 other players.
      (remember, the average wot player is 29 years old)

      If I have to question myself on if you are part of animal testing for WoT or not, just log off. You are making 14 people angry and sad, and make me weep for mankind.

      • Average WoT player is 29 years old ? I think that comes from RU server again. WG doesn’t give a shit about EU.

    • If they do not have fun playing it then… GTFO. Do not ruin someone elses experience of it by beeing a douchebag. The only time i seriously consider teamkilling/leaving the game for the evening is when some jackass starts rambling about stats right from the start of the game.

      Seriously, report system should work like this *tag comment* add reporting option. 30 days instant ban, no warning. Tagging the comment should make it easy enough to weed out the reportin out of spite and real issues. Toxic comunity is a unpleasant past in a sweep.

    • 6 year olds should go play “Learn alphabet with Franklin” or “The Moomin’s Adventure”, not tanks.
      ‘Nuff said.

      • Why? If he can perform in par with most of the players (what is the average WR in wot? Must be near 49?) why shouldn’t he play? Don’t underestimate today’s kids, they are true born diginatives. Learn alphabet -games and most of the children games are true rubbish. When a kid gets a taste of proper games. Another one I recommend for kids is Hearthstone. My kid loves it and it beats any children game any day.

        • Also there’s no better way to learn english than from video games, and I can say that from personal experience.

          and tbh they don’t even make proper games for children anymore, if your kid ain’t bothered by graphics I’d recommend giving classic such as Crash, Tomb Raider and such a try.

          • Nyashaa – while I can’t deny that video games are excellent for learning English, I assert that to make full use of that you first need to be able to write and read fluently in your native language. This skill is usually achieved around the age of 8, so younger kids will not really benefit as much. And WoT is a much worse choice than any of the MMORPGs – the latter employ a considerably larger variety of vocabulary and grammatical structures.

            Kantti – Hearthstone is a great example of a game to entertain your child with, as it does not require any teamplay, it’s just 1 vs. 1. On the other hand, WoT is extremely team-based, so unless the kid is a young prodigy, it will but annoy its allies. In my opinion it is pointless to encourage your child to play a game which requires abilities they do not yet possess. And, as it was mentioned, there’s a huge number of single player games that are very valid options for a kid, possibly even more entertaining than underperforming in a game that demands too much.

        • I’m sorry, but he’s not on par with average players. From his WN8 and average experience it seems he plays low tiers. Even an average player can get 60% WR when sealclubbing. If he played at tier 7 or 8 he’d be around 43% WR. I understand that he’s a kid and I don’t mind that he plays WoT but there’s no point in pretending he’s not terrible.

          • Just to let you know, school starts in Finland at that age. It’s when they learn to read (some learn it in kindergarden around 6yo). Still those kids rule PISA studies…

              • And why on earth would he have to read at that age? I learnt to read when I was, uhh, 5? Something like that. And only reason to do so, was that my older brother would let me play his character in Diablo if I read something. I didn’t use that ability till school (in Poland school starts at 6).
                For me finnish attitude is perfect, kid is kid, why should it be bothered with anything but fun?
                By the way, games are perfect for kids to learn how to think fast and decide fast. And how to behave in team.

      • I knew this comment would come. So and you think you can determine that or is it your “moral superiority” xD

        Ok I’m sorry if this hit your feelings (I don’t know; could be). But I hope you get the point that you can’t decide over what games people shall play.

        oh oh and “‘Nuff said.”? oh ok I’m shutting up right know. Oh sorry to disagree with you…

        (shhh, guys don’t be fooled, he clearly seems to be dead serious, better not do social interaction)

        • He wasn’t determining anything, because he ain’t legislature in person. Ofc he can decide over what he thinks, children shall play or not. He’s allowed to have an opinion as much as you are.

      • Some of you people make me feel gross as I am of the same genus. It is a G A M E. For everyone. Kids. Adults. The elderly. Hell, I think my cat even wants to play sometimes. Sometimes you get stuck with bad players. It happens. So much hate in a game that is just for FUN. Play the game, have fun, enjoy the victories AND defeats – you always learn more from a defeat that a victory. And losing isn’t always defeat! When I get those awful teams where it seems like everyone died in the first 3 minutes and it’s you and your new VK buddy vs 9 of them, and you take down 4 or 5 before then end, that’s a victory. You played well, fought to the end, and had fun. Victory. ‘Cause, since it IS a game, as long as you have fun, you win. Duh. Some of you people take things that aren’t meant to be serious WAY TOO SERIOUSLY. And honestly, it’s sad for you, because you are forgetting how to enjoy the game. Rather have a team of fun loving tomatos than a team of you bratty-panties clogging up the chat with your complaining. Play the game and have fun, help players that aren’t doing well instead of wishing awful things on them – like cancer. My Mother has 3rd stage ovarian cancer, and honestly if I could find any of you that wished cancer on a 7 year old boy, I would stomp your face into the dirt. And I’m a hippie. Subhuman is what that behavior is, and everyone that has ever said things like this should honestly reevaluate the entirety of their moral outlook.
        ‘Nuff said

        • But you know, for some players games are SRS BSNSS.

          No offense to anyone, but the higher the tier, the higher the probability of finding rude players who wish for your death or teamkill and then log out or simply whine that the team’s stats aren’t to their liking (that there are mods calculating this crap is another reason these guys exist, by the way).

          To those people I kindly say, shut your traps and log out, you’re making fools out of yourselves and making the gaming experience unpleasant for EVERYONE.

          PS: Everyone starts as a ‘tomato’, but it seems a lot of players forget it. How odd.

          • Its and interesting phenomena to have a tanker team kill you, rage in chat and then run away after the battle like a land crab or their worried they are going to get stuck with the check.

      • He’s right. At 5.5yrs old the kid couldn’t read, but daddy is proud that he’s beating blue players in a game? Seems to be a lack of priorities to me. My 5 year old was reading before her 5th birthday. Not because she’s a genius, but because her mother and I place an emphasis on education over entertainment. In my experience parents prefer to allow their kids this form of entertainment because it’s easy – it’s like free baby sitting. And if the parent (as in this case) happens to play WOT too, then they tout it as “bonding”. Anyone espousing the benefits of “learning to read” from WOT clearly has a distorted view of the world – do you want your kids to learn to read by seeing the player comments? Its offensive to me as a 40 year old, try explaining those words to a kid.
        Clearly we all have our opinions about this, and people the world over will parent however they see fit, but if you are asking me to set aside my opinions because some players might be 6 year old kids that can barely read or write, not going to happen. In the end, it’s just a game, but if we want to argue the finer points of things the EULA states “In order to take part in the World of Tanks MMO Game, participants (“Players”) must be 13 years of age or older.” So there’s that right? There’s a reason for that, but I guess as a parent you know what’s better for your kid than anyone – or at least you think you do.

        • Now this is an interesting approach, I have to admit. Here in Finland (as I have replied in other comments), it is customary to start school the year kid turns seven. They learn to read only at school at first year. Some do learn that before that, yes, but most only at school. Still somehow Finnish education system manages to be in top of PISA listings as one of the most efficient ones in producing brilliant youngsters. I learnt reading only when I was seven and now I am finishing my PhD just next month.

          In Finland we’re discouraged to teach kids these things too early on because honestly, they don’t need that yet. They learn those quite well later in life and as PISA tests suggest, make still wondrous students later on. In your country you’re clearly supposed to teach your kids read/write when they’re young, here it is not customary.

  2. actually i am not raged against players with low stats, i am just not expecting anything from them. the biggest problems is that when you are shooting, some “idiots” stands in your way or behind you and disables your opportunities to retreat or to deal damage as it should. those players are pain in the ass.

      • Guilty as charged. ;) That’s part why I know some of the worst mouths in game and part of why I needed to write this.

        • Amusing article.

          Your kid has a very low survival ratio. This is probably the key barrier for him right now.

          WRT to your points:

          1: No one has ever claimed WN8 is the be all and end all of stats, especially not the creators. But, by and large, you can rely on a 40%er blackball to let you down even though they will have the odd 1-in-100 watch where they play well.

          2: I personally suspect that attitude is more an impediment than age to doing well. A player with the wrong attitude (I lost because of the team. They failed me) will never improve because they can’t reach the stage of analyzing their own play to improve on it.

          3: Personally, I hate the excuse of “I’m a kid/pensioner/cripple, so get off my back”.

          If you’re going to play a competitive PvP team-based game then you shouldn’t bother clicking Battle unless you plan to actually play with some desire to achieve victory.

          It’s fine to arse around when you’re playing Peggle or some other solo game but when you’re playing on online team-based game, not putting in any effort doesn’t just ruin the match for you, it does so for other people.

          I don’t know about you, but I personally don’t enjoy ruining other peoples games :-)

          Anyways, just my thoughts. Sometimes I wonder if the really terrible players play using one arm only. It would explain a lot.

    • Honestly, who cares if it’s EFE or not. For me it’s just a clan tag, not feldgrau uniform or something. ;)
      The man has a point and his article is good, informative, interesting, fun to read, even made me laugh a little, basically all the stuff you would expect from article.

        • That is a guidance for parents, that does not need to be strictly followed… You still are the parent of your kids, the internet is not. Those ratings are not, you are.

      • I don’t expect kids to play awesome. I expect them to NOT play multiplayer games at this age, that’s all. If there is fear that he will be raged etc and u still let him play multiplayer games u’re making huge mistake. Let him play some single players to give him some experience and chance to grow up without all that flame that is in multiplayer games. I was always a player, but I started playing online games as a teen, it is sad to let kid playing online games so fast.

        • If it makes you feel little better, my kid is learning to read, but not English. It helps a bit. And everyone of us playing WoT will know that there is no turning back after you have played with real people (especially on your side, but also against). It is also awesome kid-parent-godfather -time to do some serious platooning on weekends. ;)

          • still, he can just go and translate it and understand what it means. When I will have a kid I will not let him play ANY multiplayer games where is flame, even when he wouldn’t know english, we should remember that not always people rage using english etc.

            • I played DOOM and Wolfenstein 3D when I was 3…
              Still never had a fight in school. The worst I have ever done so far in my life is forum trolling. And even that is so mild… I dont even have warnings :(

              These things are up for PARENTS you know. They decide whether their child can play or not. It is just there to warn them, not police them.

        • I totally admit, MindChanger. That’s exactly the point. I’m not expecting to meet 5 year olds in this game and considering the average age (even though they seem to exist, after reading this), they’re not common (which is good). They just shouldn’t play this game, not only because they are likely to get insulted, but also because it is obvious they won’t perform very good, thus ruining the game for others (no matter they have their lucky moments and perform well). Just imagine everyone playing this game would allow his children to play it. This game wouldn’t be playable at all anymore. It’s already bad enough there are so many adults that perform as bad or even worse as a small kid, making this game unplayable sometimes.

          But I also want to point out one important thing: I’m also flailing around with regular insults, quite often (but I also do give hints … occasionally this even works, sadly in most cases it doesn’t). I only do this during match, not afterwards in the garage (that’s also something I cannot understand). When the match is over, it’s over. I think it’s human to curse. BUT – and that’s the point – calling a genuine idiot as such is incomparable to wishing someone gets cancer/aids/ebola and die. Nor are racial slurs acceptable.
          In return, I don’t mind getting called an idiot and stuff like that myself. I wouldn’t even bother to report someone for that. But I’ve got absolutely no sympathy for cancer-wishing and stuff like that. This is way out of proportion.

      • Why it is for teens? There is never a person seeing getting hurt. I have explained it as people controlling remotely tanks that fight. And these kids are not as blue-eyed as you think. They play with toy guns, with toy soldiers. There is no graphical content here that would be hazardous. Still naturally I oversee him when he games and answer any questions it raises. Just like in movies when a movie is rated (PEGI) for 7 year old, it is assumed in rating that it is safe to watch it younger with parents.

        • It’s not about the content. Ofc there is only mild violence in this game. It’s not depicted in any way as brutal and vicous as it actually is in RL. Therefore the authorities/rating agencies rate this game as appropriate to be played by children.

          Personally, when I say you shouldn’t let your boy play this game, I don’t say this because of any legal stuff or because I think the content would be inappropriate for him. It’s just to keep the game clean. Believe me, if everyone would allow their children to play this game or even intentionally introduce them to it to play it, this game would be less and less fun to play. You yourself wouldn’t want to play this game at some point anymore, because you’d deem it unplayable and no fun to play it when there’s a large amount of underperforming children playing it, in addition to the already large amount of underperforming adults.

          I really like children, but I don’t want to play with or against them in a competetive online-game.

      • ESRB clearly says this: Includes online features that may expose players to unrated user-generated content.
        PEGI is european bullcrap created by idiots in the EU Parliament (?). I don’t know, I don’t care.

        If you really want to argue over this, then be my guest. I don’t have a child to care for. As pointed out already: Let him play or don’t but don’t complain when he gets insulted or when he will start insulting other kids at school, following the example of WoT players.

    • You are perfectly right. It’s a great risk for such a kid psyche to be deviated. It doesn’t mean it WILL happen, but also croosing the main street in a big city during rush hours where it is not allowed one may survive. Wanna take the risk?
      Plus: When the game is for Teens, why should anybody care about children playing it? Except their parents of course.

    • Ignore all the “Shouldnt let him play” chatter kantti…. they are just realising the Oh Sh*t moment when the figure out a 7 year old is kicking their asses. Threatens their ego

  5. I somehow can relate to the red noobs a bit. I am now at around 16k battles and starting to scratch on the unicum colors. But back in the day with 300 battles i played Leopard (Yes the scout) and i was wondering why i died all the time and why i couldnt pen, while shooting T29 in the turret. HAHA. But now there are some of my friends that started and they play decent enough but not great but they manage to maintain around a 50% WR and they are like in awe when i once in a while dish out a 8 kill game when platooning with them in low tier battles.
    Whilst i will not understand people botting tier way up to tier 10 and ruining the game for everyone on their team because of lack of expericence or grinding their way to tier 10 with WR below 45% never learning a thing not improving ect. pp that are the ones that piss me off.
    There is even a moderator on tank company chat his name is “jay9704″ and he is a complete shit noob. Look at his stats as i did and i called him out on botting and i recieved a ban for 24h…! Why on earth is he allowed to be a mod if he cant even play WoT let alone understand the game….

    • a player with 2k or less game is new, i automatically forgive them for being bad as they are learning. it’s those 10k+ 42% winrate tomatoes that get to me, half of them can’t play the game for shit. no side scarping, noo angling, no priority target shooting, no knowledge of weakspots and etc. eu server most players don’t even know what the minimap does.

      • 2k is already a little low. I think it took me 6-8k games to finally get warm with it and noticeably became better (but even before that I never hit the 500WN mark or 46/47%wr).

        It’s just a matter of how fast someone learns. Some people have a steep learning curve, others do not.

        But yeah, people with 10k+ and 42-45% wr … they’ll never get good in this game. Not even close. It’s obv they are incapable of learning at all. Even if they do not invest time in reading articles or watching videos, just by playing the game, a normal human being should be able to improve autodidactically. For example: If I shot a thousand times at a certain spot without any result, at some point I should realize I might try another spot until I find one that leads to the desired result. If I played a map hundreds of times, I should get to know the right spots. Trial & error.

        Someone who fails to learn basic stuff in 10, 20, 30k battles, is plain stupid IMO. They must possess the IQ of a breadcrumb. Every chimpanzee is capable to learn that way. That’s also what Kantti pointed out in his article: Even a small kid of 5-7 years becomes better over time and learns stuff and performs better. Every adult that performs that bad, that he can call a 300- WN8 rate and 42-45% wr his own after 10k+ battles (without having used a bot or leeched), should consider playing with blocks, rattles and educational shape boxes. It probably suits them better than the kids.

  6. well, if any developer from WoT is reading this, it should propose to the next meeting that they have to ban all the accounts using the same IP for this reason alone. I mean there are players that are investing lots of money in this game each month and lose interest in it each time they “get lucky” having such abominations in their team (tunnel visioned players that shoot cars and houses and
    I don´t know if this article is a joke or a parody or whatever but are we supposed now to defend bad players???? I don´t care if he´s a kid, he shouldn´t play it in the first time! It´s not like it´s educational or something like that. I mean there are games specially designed for toddlers. Anyway, gj dad! If you wanted compassion, sorry, you came to the wrong place!
    And yeah, “Daddy! Why on earth is my team playing this bad? How is it possible that they lose this game! Why they’re not even trying!”. Maybe it´s because you were the weakest link??? I dunno, just saying, but maybe you were supposed to help your team and not wander around shooting houses! 40% hit ratio! damn man, i suppose those were blind shots getting lucky!

    • Daniel. You missed big part of the text. It was that even 7-year old can play this game rather well. He gets 49 WR, he hits his shots often enough (remember that hitratio 40 comes with those intentional house- and car-shots) and currently has enough sense to do peek-a-boo instead of driving forward. You couldn’t tell his age just watching his replays. There are adults playing far worse. If you don’t ban people due their stats, you can’t ban players do their age. Would love to see your nick so we’d do some serious comparison between your stats and a 7-year old…

      This article was about understanding why some people play worse than others. And make you wonder how some adults can be even worse. And about to think twice before raging everyone.

      • It is you who are missing the point. Apart from glorifying your son’s stats, which are, i have to say, abysmal apart from WR, does not show that your son is capable of playing this game at all. WR can be raised above the natural by: stat-padding with OP vehicles, seal-clubbing at low tiers with very good crew/modules that no other player generally has or platooning with better than you. I am not sure what method your son was using without knowing his account to check what tanks was he playing and what stats are on those tanks. In general i will say that WR on any account below 10k games are irrelevant, and even after that it is suggestive rather than indicative. WN7/8 are much better skill indicators.
        bottom line – children are not welcome to competitive multiplayer games (especially team based multiplayer games) for a reason. First of all they always perform sub par and thus are exposed to a venomous team based mmo community. If you think this does not influence your children in a very negative way – think again. Look couple of FTR posts back about that russian kid raging. This is your kids future.

  7. I dont understand these “red” peoples. What motivates them to play? Usually they die in the first 2 minute with 0-100 damage. (they damaged the other “red” player who rushes too). It isn’t boring to die in the first minutes every battle?
    I’m talking about the players(older players 16+) with 5000+ battles and 200 average damage per match. (not the newbies).
    Or maybe the one Top Gun battle out of 1000 motivates them?
    I dont understand it.

    • I know it is hard to understand, but they actually have fun. I have a son at a similar age as the article writer, who has played for a similar amount of time, and with similar (somewhat weaker in the win rate, better in damage and hit%) results.

      And belive it or not, he finds the game fun. Added bonus is I have the worlds best excuse to hare off to different tank museums etc with him.

      Can also add that he has 8 kills on more tanks than I have (we both have 8 as max amount of kills)

      If you do not have fun, perhaps you should take a break?

      As for supporting the game, he’s had premium account and some gold for conversion the whole time, and as such has put more into the game than most players I would think.

      So chillax. It’s just a game. And belive it or not – but some actually play4fun!

    • Same here, I can understand low age players, in this case the 7-year old (who is awesome BTW, beating 2 blue players in tourney….priceless :’D, buy the kid a nice prem tank ^.^)

      But the players, probably 15+ YO….they have like 5k+ games and bellow 300 WN8, and looking at their stat details it is utterly ridiculous in a very bad way.
      The players I’m talking about are as so:
      - Battles: 5k+
      - KDR: 0.2-0.3 at best
      - WR: 44% and bellow
      - Avg. damage: 500
      - Avg. XP: 200
      - Max XP: 600
      - Max kills: 4
      Mastery badges of all tanks played:
      - Ace tanker: 0
      - Class 1: 1%
      - Class 2: 14%
      - Class 3: 85%

      So in 5k+ battles they have barely learned how to shoot at their target properly, BARELY! No idea how to use their armor, and the players I have in mind have a tier 8 at least, mostly german tanks, especially Tiger II’s. And they mostly sit in base and watch you die, and after a while when they get their fingers out of their assholes….sudenly they remember that the WASD keys actually work and move twoards the nearest hoard of tanks to get bum-rushed and die in a glorious and most useless death in the game.

      So yeah, those are the people I think are tomatoes, as in BAD players. Begginer players with about 3k battles and a bit better stats are good players in my book, so the kid is a legend for his age, comparing to the avarage playerbase in that battle count, excluding re-roll.

      • It doesn’t matter if they are 5, 15, 78 or 3 years old everybody is different the fact that a 7 year old can average 47 – 49% whilst is impressive for his age.

        It doesn’t mean that the stats you see reflect a person and stating things like they should get their fingers out is really childish. Why does there have to be a set number of battles people have to play before you are expected to learn how to play a game the way other people want you to play everyone learns at different speeds and in different ways.

        For all you know they may only have 4 fingers on one hand they may even be missing a hand.

        That is why I turned XVM off its an tool that does nothing more than encourage elitists. You can’t win every game and its pointless to try and bundle every player under one category or even rage at people.

  8. Just shows how terrible the noobs are. Even kids can perform better than them at such a young age, I also knew a boy from Hong Kong who was still at the age of 8 and he performed well during platoon sessions so long as we had coordination, we both played WoT at a declining rate and I dropped out first then soon him after because of the noobs who aren’t willing to learn. Though I think it’s starting to turn into an insult to use the term ‘noob’ on such players because the term was made for newbies who are still learning. Tank Leader bot performances puts the players who ended the fun completely in WoT in total shame.

    They rant, insult, provoke, sabotage, in rare cases accused others of wrongs and pretend to act innocent in the face of a gullible moderator who is new and terrible at his job so that the wrong party gets ROed. Most common acts done are what’s seen in the Hall of Shame.

    • Now that was one of the questions I wanted to raise with this article. I have honestly no idea. My 7-year old is surprisingly good for a kid, but he IS 7 year old. It really makes me wonder how you achieve WR worse than 47. Must take some serious effort.

    • Better reflexes, and the amount of information it can proccess is far greater than a 30yo. Also his learning curve is just insane.

      Just take into consideration this: A 30yo can’t just learn to speak a language withing 2 years, but the progress a 7yo can have learning english is just insane.

      • Playing higher tier, not platooning with way better players to carry your tomato ass, playing sub par vehicles ala B1 or Lee. It is not that hard. Also not having someone who teaches you the ropes from the start and having to find them out yourself. Not being able to throw credits/gold on crew training, consumables, equipment. All those things accumulate to get exponentially worse WR. Frankly we have no indication whatsoever what conditions this wot wunderkind started with.

  10. Thanks for posting this Silenstalker. Even though i usually keep my temper in check this will make me think twice before i rage in those unusual moments.

    Kantii, kiitos you too for taking the time to write this.

  12. Very good article with a lot of interesting points.

    And it really makes me wonder, what kind of players play below 48% W/R? Is it people not caring, or too tired to think properly, or… ?

    • Now this is something also I am genuiely wondering. Under 47 must take some harming your own team, afk:in simply won’t be enough.

    • People who pay no attention to mechanics, the game does not train you on them in any way so if you are not the sort of person who will go looking for info you can play on making terrible mistakes for ages (there was no tutorial at all for so long and even the one there is is crap).

      This combined with the fact the grind set up of the game encourages people to just keep playing regardless of how hard they are failing has people playing when tired or frustrated. So they don’t know what they are doing and failing hard but this just encourages them to play more games to try and get to another tank where “it must be better” while tired and angry meaning they fail more and eventually they just get a bot, a tier 8 premium or start afking or suicide rushing for the grind and it all snowballs.

      Plus of course most of them do not realise how bad they are since they won’t even have heard of WN8 and wargamings own ratings are crap, based on number of games and tier level as much as anything.

  13. READ EULA BROS
    this is world gaming ,not happy farm ville
    and about performing better than those 2 blue players ,the difference is that a good players perform 90% and a noob perform just 10 % in all his games

    so as he can have 1 match in 100 ,an blue player can have a bad match in 100

    1.01. In order to register in World of Tanks, players must be thirteen (13) years of age or older.

    so your child account shoud be shut down :D

    • It is not like EULA is a document that really binds anyone. Like those ridiculous US firms EULAs won’t hold in any European court.

      Of course the account was not created by my kid. It is in my name, I just let him play it. Perhaps someone think that even it violates EULA, but that was the way I could get my kid to play with me.

    • bad parenting, what do you expect in a day where girls in highschool have unprotected sex and become teenage mothers.

      • Corehorn, do you believe everything they write in such administrative bodies or do you trust your own experience? I would never let my kids play something with age rating higher than their age UNLESS i knew very well what the game was about and like. And WoT I know and made parental decision to trust myself instead of ESRB-system.

        • So you are saying that you should keep your Children away from video games. Gaming:
          1)Increases congestive pattern recongition
          2) Encourages and improves puzzel solving
          3) Forces focus and function
          4) Improves work for reward ethic
          5) Demands and encourages competition
          6) improves social interaction
          7) Can teach a number of historical and social levels.
          8) Releases stress
          9) Encourages healthy outlets for frustration and anger
          10) Improves linguistic recongition

          I see no problem here

  15. LOLed at the “kids should not be playing my game” whining. They should ask themselves would they have played the game if they could when they were 5, 6 or 7. I think the standard Team America response would be appropriate. But would they have been as good at that age………..?

    Kantii, this reality check has made my morning, thank you and your son.

    My kid is too busy being a Mage but then she is 27 year old Phd. student so I can’t complain.

  16. Is it true that most wot players play on old PC’s and business laptops that get like 10 FPS Max? That would really hurt my stats…..

  17. I am NOT surprised that he raped two blues. Kids have much faster reaction time and coordination skills than adults – he is playing to his advantages, while at the same time only learning map reading and more advanced mechanics rules. The same way TV shows kids-against-adults are staged the way kids have advantage in their abilities.
    I have no doubt that he will be much better in future, but his current performance is to be expected.

    It doesn’t matter to me if someone is insulting a kid or an adult – it shouldn’t happen, to anyone.

    It is also the reason i’d like to have a skill-based balancer in battle, i proposed that already.

    • faster reaction and coordinations skills lol noo
      kids have more energy, that gives them a bit of edge in gaming.

      • It is true scientifically proven… The younger you are the faster you react and have better eye to hand coordination + able to absorb more info from diffrent sources.

        • This is not true at all, reaction time peaks around 18. Between the age of 6 and the mid thirties it is a very shallow dispersion with not much difference, but the fastest reactions are found at physical maturation, around 18 for most people. The reaction times in gaming are generally decision based reactions, and in those children are not as adept as adults, so they are unlikely to have better reactions than even people in their thirties in most game related circumstances (so waiting on a hair trigger for an enemy to poke out round a corner a kid might well have an advantage but in reacting to an enemy suddenly appearing behind them they likely wont).

          Almost exactly the same scale occurs with hand-eye coordination, again it peeks around 18. In this case however children have not developed their abilities until around 9 or 10, below this children have considerably lower hand eye co-ordination than even people in their thirties and early forties.

          Children can indeed absorb more information, but this isn’t generally a good thing, as it takes them longer to process it, this is partially whats leads to slower decision based reaction time.

          Generally when people state the oft repeated “children are faster/better co-ordinated than adults” trope they are comparing adults in their forties with teenagers, not a 7 year old with a mid twenties gaming (abnormally high learned reaction times/hand eye co-ordination n the first place) playerbase.

      • That is all true. Kids are amazing with their learning capabilities. However the problem here is not that the adult is unable to learn. I believe the problem here is the will to learn.

        The kid here is willing to learn, because he is interested in the topic and his father is always helping him and is willing to teach. However many adults grew up to believe that the game is there to reward them. They believe they dont need to give anything and recieve everything in return. That is probably why they rage like insane and keep being worse than kids who have open minds.

  18. I do not rage at players because their stats are red. I do not rage at players delivering a bad performance – they may well just not be any better at it. I do rage at players when they play like they just cannot be bothered to deliver even the basics, when they Yolo and forfeit a clear victory and screw the other 14 players over. Especially do I rage at players who do not accept advice when there is still time and a good prospect, who then INSIST to continue playing like carp.

    If you want to play a game, play the game.

    But keep in mind:
    There is nothing more serious than a game. So at least TRY keeping up and improving. We all “play it for fun”.

  19. Red players are players that don’t understand game mechanics and do not wish they did. They are just passively playing and not expecting any achievement from the game.

    If you just don’t care about your gameplay, then you will just stay red. Simple. I have 9K battles, and reached recently 2000 Wn8, no second account, just hours of watching livestreams and youtube videos, tactics on foroums, and listening to more experienced members of your Clan.

    These people just don’t care about doing well, they just press the “Battle” button, and hope for the best. They hope. They do not try, and thus they do not contribute as much.

    Raging about these people is just dumb, if you truly are better than them, you should be able to carry their weight and win the games. If you don’t win games, well then you should at least have a good DPG and Wn8 values that prove that you at least try to carry your team.

  21. “They play using 1-2 fingers instead of full WASD. They just learn to observe the battlefield. They LIKE to shoot cars and houses!”

    Everyone letting those “things” to play – suicide. SUICIDE NOW.

    • Why?
      There are 2 cases.

      1) You are a tomato player. You cannot understand game mechanics and game flow so you have a bad WR and stats.

      2) You are good player. You do carry your teams and you do contribute to the game. In this case why would you alter the playerbase? You play well and you do not care about your teamates cause you can handle them.

      So that leads to the conclusion: You are in the first category. You just wish your team was full of smurfs-unicums to carry your sorry ass and raise your overall WR. But even then you would complain cause the only stat that would increase would be your WR, cause all the other players would clean up the enemies before you could even react.

      So stop complaining and become better. Red players are snacks, they are moving xp and credits.

      • Ok, I will stop complaining when I am fucking spotter in amx1375 and my team fucks up all the fucking time!

        BEST example – I turn some T10 heavy around so it fixes on my and I rely on my teammates to kill it while they see its sides and back. NO FUCKING WAY, they just sit like motherfuckers until I am dead and then they go from that corner -,-

  22. I’d have thought that unless the child is supervised 100% of the time, then the chance they are going to get a personal chat spouting all sorts of vile comments and the damage that might do, might outweigh the odd moments of being ‘proud’

  23. Why don’t you send your kid to do something more useful? 200 wn8 is the performance of the common bot program, so no… . Your kid is not doing well and will be a burden in T5+ games. WR means nothing with few low tier battles and there is no wonder that people are writing him how bad he is. He is BAD. Please keep him in low tiers so he won’t drag competent players down. You are only blind to his badness because of reasons. That is whole story.

        • Yey, so much argument, so much logic.

          Call me when you can at least TRY to defend your point. Now get back to waxing your WN8, knowing it is not as important as Win % :) (under same conditions of coarse :) )

          • win ratio means nothing. You can have a good win ratio by not touching mouse and keyboard as long as team delivers. It is one of most useless stats. WN8, however, calculates your input in the victory of the team, so even with a poor win ratio with ton of tomato teams you can still be playing good and it will be reflected in WN and this will not show up in win ratio.
            I would take person with good WN and shitty win ratio over player with good win ratio and shitty WN any time.

            • *Giggles uncontrollably*

              Win ratio means nothing? Well, sure, if we are talking 10 battles, 20, 50, hell even 100 or 500. Then it really does not mean much.
              But over THOUSANDS of battles? Win ratio suddenly matters a LOT.
              Did you not learn statistics at school?

              WN8 is just a formula that can calculate some things. I am not saying it is completely useless, and if a player is blue or purple they probably deserve it. But it does not and can not calculate all the ways one contributes to their team.

              • over THOUSAND battles 10 games will drop or raise your WR by 1 percent. GG, such a great indicator. 10 bad game streaks happen – play during 5x event or retarded “grind like moron and win a tank” event and you will get plenty of those. Grind some piss poor tank and you will get another streak even if you are a good player. Less than 10k battles WR is pointless stat. It becomes somewhat statistically reliable after 10k battles, and even then it is lagging behind persons actual performance. Take red tomato of 42% WR, stick it in 2 unicum platoon – his WR will skyrocket without him doing jack s**t. Here is your glorified WR. Good enough to wipe your ass with it, hardly more. Even WN7/8 is not a very good indicator to persons skill – you need to check his most played tanks and so on to get a grip on what person skill level is, but WN7/8 is MUCH more reliable stat for measuring what you can expect from person in the game.

                • No, your maths is bad. If you had 50% wr at 1000 games, then losing 10 games in a row (a very rare occurrance, never happened to me ever) would reduce your WR by 0.5%, not 1%. But when you have 10k games you would need to lose 100 games in a row from “bad teams” to lose that 0.5%. To have 1% shaved off your win rate after 30k games you would need to lose 600 consecutive games because of “bad teams”. The more games you play the more accurate win rate becomes as a measure of your effect, since all other factors even out over time. Once you get to 10k games its pretty reliable for someone playing solo randoms, they would need phenomenally good or bad luck for it to be wrong (with the number of players on the server of course there probably is a handful of such people).

                  Of course you are right about platoons, and they do make it unreliable. But then they also make WN8 unreliable as well since it uses win rate and several other factors boosted by platoon play (survival rate for example) and it really isn’t any better. Until wargaming differentiate platoon stats from solo neither is reliable to the same degree.

                • THOUSANDS =/= THOUSAND

                  Learn English

                  “Take red tomato of 42% WR, stick it in 2 unicum platoon”

                  He may learn something you know. That will impact WN 8 too btw.

                  Till WN 8 can take into account ALL that influences a battle it is not as good as WIn %

                • You are right about my math. It is wrong, it is closer to 0.5%. My bad. However bad streaks happen. You might not need to get plain bad games in a row – 5 bad 1 good, 3 bad 1 good. and so on. Bad days happen. my biggest losing streak in a row was during Christmas event at 16 games in a row loss. My gripes with WR because it is never accurate. At low battle count it might show that you are good while you are really bad(look at that kids stats). After 10k battles it becomes somewhat reliable to filter out bad players(if you are still red after 10k – most likely you will NEVER become good), but it is no longer an indication if player is really good. For instance it might show that player is 51%-er while last 2k battles he was playing at 55% and deep green or even blue worth of WN8. That’s why i say that WR is way worse than WN. WN takes into account much more parameters thus is much better at judging persons performance. Not ideal but better.

                • Alexander, could you use your brain at all? Your arguments are beyond ridiculous. WN is already taking like 10 times more things into account than plain WR. It is the same thing as claiming that binoculars are shit if they cannot perform also as microscope and telescope at the same time, therefore you should only use your eyeball for looking into distant things.
                  Let me guess, your WN sucks while your WR is ok-ish?

                • “Bad days happen. ”

                  So do good days. Statistically, that does not matter. Both good and bad happen.

                  Win rate is simple, it takes into account EVERYTHING that wins a battle. WN8 can not and does not.

                  My WN8 is purple. My win% is blue :P .

                  All that matters is winning. WN8 is decent. But Win % is even better. It just takes into account MORE things.

              • Yes, yes alexander, you are a pink flying bladerpus bear with purple wings. Brag whatever you want – that’s what anonymity in the internet is good for. I have yet to meet a single unicum that would even dared to claim something as retarded as your statements above. Worst of all you are just throwing blanked statements without arguments. What are you? 10 years old? I have met mentally challenged that were able to understand that the more precise the measuring tool is, the more precise results it provides. Seems you are not able to reach even the level of afore mentioned person…

                Did i hit a nerve about you having WR you do not deserve? Winning does not matter. Person who did lets say 4k damage in T8 match and lost the game is still better then person who did 0 damage and 0 spotting damage and actually got the win. To claim anything different is plainly stupid.

                • Seems like you never met a smart unicum. Wont blame you, a decent portion of them seem to be like Garbad. Not that I hate the guy… but damn can he get whiny and arrogent as hell :P.

                  And how is it anonymity if this is my real name :P

                  Person that over 10k battles has 62% solo win rate and 2400 WN8 is more valuable then person with 55 % win rate and 2900 WN8. Sorry.

                  One is a damage dealer that goes for stats (and is admittedly AT LEAST a good player, maybe even very good), the other is excellent and can TANK (take damage), KITE (distract) and generally WIN.

                  I am not saying WN8 is USELESS. Or that you are stupid for looking at it. What I am SAYING is that it is LESS important then Win % and SHOULD be looked at most along with win %.

                  There is a reason WG thinks the same way.

      • Let me explain why is WR not deciding of players skills.

        You are 1/15 of the win/loss. Most of the time, your contribution is not enough to secure win all alone especially when you are the lowest tier of battle.

        WN8 combined with DMG ratio/assist damage on specific tanks is much more determining.

        WR is also very much influenced by tier of the battles. In lower tiers are battles much faster and much more yolo – you can easily have extremely good or extremely bad WR as only luck on which team you are decides.

        • WN8 does not take into account bating/kiting/tanking.
          It does not manage to account for tactical skills.

          Winning is MORE important then dealing damage. Dealing damage is not what wins all battles. Sometimes taking it or shielding other people does. And winning is what MATTER in WoT.

          So what if its 1/15.

          Dont people in *insert your country here* learn ANYTHING in school?

          • WR% tells you nothing when not combined with WN8+dmg ratio+assist damage. I often platoon with my RL friend which is 1100 WN8 and cant carry anything, but he has 57% WR because of me and other friends platooning with him. WR is bullshit.

            And wtf you talk about shielding, tanking bating? What? This is a bloody WoT random. Even if you bounce 6k damage/a game and shield hordes of tomatoes, it wont change anything.

            WR alone means nothing, just nothing. Only combined with other stats it has meaning.

            Ofc I agree WN8 alone is nonsense as well, but if you check someone stats, combine it with other elements mentioned above you know who are you dealing with.

            • If both of you together work well and win games then that makes you valuable.

              Competitive play does not need “Solo Stars” . It needs good team players.

              Agree on combining stats though.THAT Is how it is done!

  24. Your kid is cool. :D
    But I don’t think all the kids try their best.
    Example, my cousin really sucks at this game. He just moves forvard and don’t give a shit about tactics.
    Once, he told me he TK his team for the lolz. -_-
    Cancer threads should be avoided in all cost. But for the “idiots/learn to play”, nobody can know how old is the concerned player. Hard to imagine a 7yo child playing well on WoT. I suppose people generally imagine a noob like my cousin.
    Seeing things like an AT2 beating the shit out of a KV1S which was in his back and doesn’t even understands how to turn his turret… Make me facepalming and raging.
    Some players are according too much importance to victory, but lots of others just want to get their daily xp.. Sometimes hard to stay calm when you need 25 victories to get free equipment but that you’re blocked at 23 because you play during holidays and lose 10 times in a row. :(

  25. Agreed. WoT is rated T, so kids below at least 12 sould NOT play it. Kantti, you’re irresponsible if you allow – or worse, encourage! – your young son to play this game. ESRB ratings have been conceived for a purpose, so people and the media should not be surprised when they read such articles that in fact nobody cares about legislation and actually think they are right about it.

    This being said, let’s go back to the point. Although I’m rather proud of my own stats, I do not run after them specifically, they just are what they are and reflect my gameplay. What I want to say is that, despite the fact we would all agree that stats don’t mean EVERYTHING, on the other hand, they still DO mean at least SOMETHING about a player. You CAN’T expect a 43% WR player to be worthy in battle, but you can still expect a 57% WR player to fail. Failure is at hand for everybody, but good gameplay is not. From my own experience, I do know that there are indeed average players (around 48-49% WR) who occasionally perform very well in battles, I’ve seen this many times and I’ve been pleased to see them perform the best of their skills and help win a tough battle. This means that average players should not be labelled as worthless m*rons from the very start and should be given a chance in most occasions to prove what they can do. However, I’ve very rarely seen red players – and when I say red I mean really red – to be able to do anything else than just shoot houses, or their allies, or die in seconds before the real battle even started, or, like somebody else said above, just block you in your retreat or prevent you from shooting because they just park in front or you and turn their turret helplessly in every direction while eating loads of shells… Does this help you? NO. Does this help your team? NO. They are just free frags for the enemy team and make tyhe initial balance in the battle unbearable when you end up with a 0-5 score in less than 2 minutes after the battle started.

    Now, I’ll tell you why people whine and rage about Reds – and this also includes people that are not particularly obsessed by stats : because perfect Reds ruin the game for those who KNOW how to play it. WoT is a TEAM GAME. This means that individual performance is almost NEVER enough to make the balance even in case of a collective fail. Not so long ago I’ve been lucky enough to play a game where I managed to win it on my own with 13 kills at the end while my whole team was just dying hopelessly (check the replay if you don’t believe me, it’s on Wotreplays.eu), but this is so exceptional. Usually, good players contribute to general effort with 4-5 kills and end up dying under the flow of enemies without any backup.
    In WoT, teamwork is crucial. This game is not Counter-Strike, where a great player CAN single-handedly win alone against 4-5 players and win the game even if all his other mates sucked. In WoT, this cannot happen. That’s why people rage when they see useless red players in their teams either rushing or camping behind arty or doing anything else of the same kind and just being useless, because they reduce your chances to win the battle and enjoy the experience. So, YES, we’ve all been noobs once, we’ve all had to learn to play this game and YES, we’ve all done sh*t at some point, nobody is a born pro-gamer. But we can however rather safely consider that people basically tend to – or at least should tend to – try to improve their gameplay, and the more battles you play, the more experience you get. Imho, it’s therefore unacceptable to see people with deep red stats above tier 7, because they generally played enough battles already to have at least a basic knowledge of the game mechanics, the main attack routes, the kind of enemies they can or can’t shoot at, the utter importance of the minimap etc. If they don’t know all of this, they have nothing to do at this tier and should go back to the sandbox battles to learn, because there all tanks have roughly the same power and it’s easier to reverse steam in case of trouble. At tier 8 and above, as soon as there’s a gap of at least 3 tanks between both teams, you know that the situation is already heavily imbalanced and you will have a very hard time to try to make it even again, not even talking about winning.

    Now, I’ve read here and elsewhere in WoT forums that there are people who don’t care about stats or anything and precisely just like joining a game and playing the way they want, shooting cars, jumping on hills etc. I can understand that will, believe me I do. But as I said, WoT is – unfortunately for you guys – a TEAM game, and you should also try to understand US players wanting to play seriously when we say that by doing what you do, you’re of no use as far as teamplay is concerned and you ruin OUR experience.

    I’ve long been dubious and reluctant to the idea of creating a Matchmaking system based on player levels (expressed in figures), which would allow good players to play with good players and the bad ones playing with the bad. There are lots of drawbacks to such a system, such as the fact that those red players who would want to make progress need to see good ones play to learn from them, or the (often forgotten) reverse fact that good players often perform well thanks to bad players in the opposite team, who allow them to perform 6-9 kills in one battle… :) But sometimes, I play so horrible games I feel anger fill my brain and think that yes, I would definitely vote for a “skill-based MM” if WG introduced one tomorrow. And I feel that many players around me in battles feel the same.

    In the meantime, I’m making huge efforts not to end up in the Hall of Shame and de-activated the ingame chat to refrain from the temptation to rage at others. Unfortunately for us all, I think we should realize and agree on the fact that there are in our game not one but 2 separate communities, those who want to play “seriously” and those who play it “for fun” (though I will never understand how can people have fun dying in a couple of minutes or since when is the concept of “fun” radically opposed to the concept os “skill”… ^^), and therefore whine and rage will continue and we’ll go on witnessing unfortunate borderline behaviour of some, because these communities have such a different and unfortunately totally incompatible gameplay in common battles.

  26. I think the main problem here is the fact there are different aged players in the game. When I play the match, I expect everyone in the match to be at least in their early teens. That’s pretty much the age I started playing multiplayer games. A seven-year-old (or a five-and-a-half-year-old) should not be playing games online, mainly due to the possible age difference. People online usually treat other people as being around their age, so the responsibility is on the parent there, not so much on the other end.

    Imagine this as a real life scenario. Imagine you took your 7-year-old son to a football match, that also had blokes on their 30s playing the game. What would happen? Either the child gets trampled and shouted at or the older guys take a bit easier and don’t play so seriously. I think we can all agree that in real life the latter option would happen, with the situation being an actual real life social situation. Now, imagine those older guys, who really love playing football, having to slow down their own game due to the children. How long before they stop playing? Or when they actually start raging at the parents or the even at the children? There is a reason why the game has an ESRB rating (simply because of the multiplayer element and the exposure to more “mature” players).

    You kind of have to look at the issue from both sides and ease up on the ragers. The small kid wants to have fun, but so do the older, more serious players. Who exactly determines the proper conduct in that situation? Every time you enter a battle there are 30 different people (most of the time) with each of them having their own version of fun. Sometimes it’s not about just you having fun.

    • I would not recommend a coopertive multiplayer game like WoT to children younger than 13.
      I saw how 10-12 year olds play games and I remember what I did in games when I was 11 and got a C64. The good thing is, back then there was no Internet, you were only able to play with your friends on the same computer.
      There are differences but most children are not able to realize that behind every other tank there’s a real person trying to achieve a certain goal. Children just want to drive around with a tank and shoot at things no matter if they lose or even get killed quickly.

      In Germany WoT has an USK rating of 12, that’s much better than that PEGI 7 rating.
      However I’m pretty sure that it has the USK rating only because you drive realistic tanks, not because it’s a cooperative game and you shoot at other players in general.

      But still there are many adults around in the game with far worse stats and more games played. Even when I asked them in the forum how they have fun “playing” the game I never got an answer.

  27. Damm Stat Nazi’s, They all sound like they wanna kill or kick out everyone that is lesser then them. Does sound familiar to the nazis, Doesnt it?

    Anyway, this person is making a good point with this post.

  29. This probably isn’t related but this guy has a point, i started multiplayer gaming when i was 10 years old, i played a game star wars battlefront 2, now the community is completely different. I remember i was a total noob, i couldnt hit anything, i constantly died and mostly likely lost a lot of games for my team. But i gave it all i had to play that game, i tried and tried and tired to get better, and i did but as i did, it started to turn less fun. Over time it became a competition not how quickly you could derp somebody and die, more take your time and plan. So my point is, is world of tanks still a game or a competition? Because in my eyes it is, the most fun games i have been in are low tier games, where nobody cares if you lose or win, if you die at the start or beginning, i hope you consider my opinion. Also here are my world of tank stats.

    Battles Fought: 1600
    Victories: 54.81%
    Personal Rating:6,118
    Avg exp: 737
    Avg damage: 1100
    K/D: 1.66
    Hit Ratio: 72.11%

  30. The 13+ rating is there for a reason. Play the game if it makes you all happy thats fine, i played gta vc at 10, even though it’s 18+.
    But don’t forget that you will have to deal with the well wishers, and being accused of ‘fvkin useless noob’. Stats doesnt tell nothing…yeah, but it neither does tell the player’s age.

    If you let your child drive your car, ‘because he’s good for his age let him learn’, dont be surprised if you end up on a tree, or the cops say hello.

  31. I have no problem with kids in game until they play tier X
    If you try learn him to drive a bike and he falls, you dont go to buy him a superbike to learn drive faster

  32. Very nice article.
    I had some serious rages in the last few weeks, when I was playing better than others on my team (I don’t say ‘cary’, because I don’t realy consider myself that good), and still lost after doing my best, seeing I have done more damage than the best player on the enemy team…
    And then I told myself that I must put things into proportions: I ask for random, I get random. It is a game. A game mostly played by men, and men are extremely competitive. Every time I ‘loose’ because of my team, I just tell myself – ‘whell, you must play better to be able to defeat 29 oponents’. And that’s it. This is how you get better.

    Only a game. Don’t let it ruin your mood. You woun’t be a lesser man for having bad stats.

    And one more thing: remember, that every time you loose (doesn’t matter why), someone else wins. So just be happy for him being happy.

  33. I stopped reading the article after the sentence: “now 7 years old kid to play on Christmas 2012 (the kid was 5,5 years then).” How can a father be that irresponsible? A six years old child should not play games glorifying violence. This father deserves an entry in the Hall of shame for letting his little kid play WoT.

    • Good that you got into the point of the article (irresponsible parenting) right away. PEGI for the game is 7 years and if explained right, it is only remote controlled (player controlled, no crews visible) toys fighting other toys. You’re talking now about kids who play with toy guns and toy soldiers every day on sandboxes…

    • Read what ESRB and PEGI do.
      It is a recommendation, NOT something that forced parents.

      If a parent, especially one that PLAYS the game too, thinks it is OK for their child, then it is. Simple as that.

      I remember the good old days of DooM and Wolfenstein 3D… ahh the joy… was 3 back then.
      If you ever heard about me on the news it definitely wasn’t due to me doing anything bad :)

  35. The guy has nailed it. Children can play like crazy, if they learn how to play properly.

    My nephew nails 2-3 kills every time he plays with some well known tier 5 tanks.

    • And the point is not even that children CAN play well. Point is children ARE playing it (good and bad) and in vast amounts. And how that should affect how you evaluate your co-players and adversaries and how you interact with them.

      • There are many kids, yeah, some good, some bad, but they’re just a giant bunch of clueless players.

        I’d like to plat with your kid some time, I like low tiers as well :D

  36. Kantti great article!

    Those “you are a bad parent” posters don’t understand how parenting works and that you are the one to judge if your son is ready for a game like wot or not. I hate people telling others what to do in their life. Worst kind of people.

    I played games quite early too (back then Settlers 2 :D) and had (at a friends house) a look at Resident Evil and Command and Conquer far before i should have – that only increased my interest in gaming. My parents luckily were quite strict: half an hour on the pc per day. Didn’t hurt ;)
    I congratulate you for teaching your son the art of gaming in a similarily well measured manner. I think its great.

    As for the raging: Especially malicious raging should be punished much faster and harder. I think this game could be a perfect environment for kids, if it weren’t for those few honourless douchebags that chose private chat to insult you some more…

  37. After reading some comments from the father, I really wonder if he’s really a father or he’s just a troll. This article received way too much attention.

    If the guy really is a father and his kid plays this game: Did you really think that such an article would have any kind of success? What? You’re hoping to educate internet warriors to abstain from swearing? You’re debating that PEGI suggests that 7+ kids can play this game while ESRB says 13+. Today’s parents generations are fucked up, really. God saves us from the future when their children grow and become adults.

    There aren’t “a lot” of 7+ children playing. Unless you can prove me wrong with an official Wargaming statistic, I won’t buy that. For a 7 years old child, everything is learning. Swearing in multiplayer games is also learning. If you, as his parent allow him to learn that… good luck when his teacher will call you to his school.

    If he’s a troll (an EFE troll): Bravo! Very well done.

    • “There aren’t “a lot” of 7+ children playing”

      That was the point of the article, that there is. I have no way otherwise explaining what all the WN 50-350 guys are. There are plenty of those and my kid is one of them. Who the hell are rest?

      And only part of the point was to educate that it might not be appropriate to open a PM after a game and wish a cancer. Point was to let people understand that a considerable part of the playerbase (especially those called tomatoes and hated for that) are young kids. It might or might not have implications on your gaming and conduct.

      I am quite surprised that this turned out “bad parenting” -commenting instead talking of the content. My bad, should have foreseen that. I still stand behind my decision to allow my kid to play (under my supervision and with me, not alone), have fun and learn some motorical and cognitive skills from it. Maybe at some point we will also have an educational discussion on how some people are assholes who don’t know how to behave. And yes, he is already using no-chat mod, so he doesn’t see ingame chat, only PMs after the battle which I have not been able to block yet.

      • It turned “bad parenting -commenting” because many of us find your attitude misleaded and irresponsible, but that’s our opinion of parenting, if you don’t share it and think it’s appropriate to let young kids have access to the world of online gaming where communities are more often than not toxic and will get every occasion to swear the sh*t out of you, that’s fine, you’re the judge, this regards your children.

        Now, you’re still right when you say this toxicity should reach much lower levels because you never know whom you’re talking too and you can therefore do such sorry things like wishing cancer to a young kid or to somebody who might have one already; this is nasty. But your article is still kind of pointless in a way because I’m sure you know yourself what makes online communities so often toxic: it’s the fact it all happens > online <. The reasoning is simple: everyone is anonymous here, so why should people care if they call you twat and wish you to burn in hell? You don't know who they are, you won't find them IRL, so they feel safe, they just rage at you as loud as they can and move to something else. Except for real threats that can be legally treated as a criminal offense, for every other case your only – meagre – defense is to report the guy who insulted you to WG, but that's all. He might or might not be chatbanned, you don't know if he's gonna be ever punished and even if he does, he still might insult you again after his chatban or another similar guy could repeat the process in his place, over and over again.
        That's the reason why some games have rather high age ratings, and generally that's also why people consider online games should be reserved to a more mature pool of players, because of this toxicity. Adults know what they do and assume their responsibilities even when they swear and do shit. Kids however are influenced by everything they read and witness, and adults' irresponsible online behaviour can have dramatic consequences on them in the future. That's why many of us find your attitude as a father irresponsible: not specifically because your kid plays a tanks game (that would be a separate discussion), but because he plays an online, mature game.
        The least you could do in this situation would be to deactivate the ingame chat for your kids if it's not done already. As to the private tabs, there are no mods for this so far, so – here you are facing your duties, you know the risk, up to you to decide if you wanna take it.

  38. I think that kids or teens or even adults, logging into a game then wishing death, cancer, gaz…. (well, no need to repeat it all), things that they would’nt do in real life, raises a bigger society problem then just a video games performances thing. I mean, how frustrated must someone be to not get enough satisfaction in having armored vehicule explode. He still need to get in war of words. What do those kids have outside of wot world. What of pressure do they have to feel that bad when loosing. I help managing a clan and with time, it got obvious that our most raging player (we don’t tolerate any out-of-game insult or threats though) are also our most online players. How come is a 15 years old kids playin wot in the middle of the night when he have schools tomorow ? And I’m not talking about our regular player, but those that seriously overplay world of tanks. I’m 33 years old and I started playing video game before Duke Nukem and Doom etc… and saw the growth of the online multiplayer worlds, and the only difference I see from today and back then, back then the video gmes were more violent then the comment in the chat, I clearly remember the unfamous “I’ll rip of your head and shit in your body” from Duke Nukem. The player I play with who are not rager at all people that do sports or like their work or are happoy at school. Those ragers (I’ll talk for those I’ve played with) often hate school, never talks about having friends outside of online community, hate their boss etc… My point is simply: Bad player statistic being a problem in the game ? I see it more as a scapegoat. I truly believe that there is ABSOLUTLY no reason on earth that justify wishing a VIDEO GAME player cancer, death or anything worst. The problem sits between some players ears and not in the game statistics.

  39. nobodys talking about low tiers… but whenever i see a t7 red im mad, and when i see t8-10 thats when i can help myself cursing in chat, the fact that wg allows this is bullcrap. yesterday i had seen lowe platooning with pz38t… both white in xvm because they lacked all stats. this should be fucking banned and im not even kidding. note i dont call anyones nationality or wish them cancer or gaschamber whatnot.. no sane person does that i have yet to see a decent player call anyone that… i often see yellows and reds to curse about polacks.. the irony makes me laugh, retarded donkeys

  40. I’ve managed to get my father (57) hooked on this game. He has extremely limited English skills and I’m glad for that. :P I doubt the chat would help him improve his games.
    He’s rather pig headed and doesn’t listen much to my advice. Even though he plays WOT every day for hours and has played 9k + games in 7 months he still has 44.95% win rate. So he has reached tier 7…I advised him not to buy any tie 8+ tanks he’ll only lose credits.

    My point is that all kinds of people play this game with various degrees of English and computer skills so people should have a more nuanced response to players that don’t live up to their expectations. Extreme “cancer” raging is useless and does only harm.

  41. Just checked my kids recent stats. Last 1700 battles (those played when he has been 6 or more old), his WN8 is 372… Makes you wonder even more…

    • Not in Finland. Here school starts only at year you turn up 7. Some learn bit earlier in pre-school (6yo), but many only at first grade in elementary school. Still somehow we rule PISA tests, so it must work out somehow.

      • In Poland we also start schoot at age of 7, but most of the kids come already knowing how to read and (crudely) write. Or at least it was like that when I started school nearly 20 years ago. Things could’ve changed since then due to general, maybe not straight “dumbing-down” but modifications to the school programme.

  43. Kids are bad players? LOL, that’s the biggest joke I’ve ever heard. Last time I heard, the kids actually play better than adults. Why? Because some adults are just not learning anything from playing, but the kids learn really fast. It’s not about age, it’s about whether you really care about the game and the players on your team. If somebody wanna say “hey, it’s just a game, why so serious?” then please, gtfo of WOT and go play single-player games. Your attitude not only harmed other player’s heart, but also the spirit of teamwork.

  44. First of all, idiots who give the access to the computers to the kids that can’t even read are simply that – idiots!! Give him a ball or something, don’t let him to grow up a retard that can’t run, you fucktard!

    Second, don’t give your kids an access to online games!! There are people there who want to relax after the hard day at work but when he gets to play his game, he gets stuck in team that is based on IQ lower than 50! You think that doesn’t make you rage? Think again! Here you are, just wanting to day to get over, wanting to relax and your highest tier is a retard who can’t get out of base circle and of course, you lose! How would you feel?

    I don’t care about stats, I care about winning! Everything I do I try to be the best because if you don’t try to be the best, why even bother trying in the first place?! You want to waste your time? Go fishing or something! You can all hate me, but I don’t care because I’m the one that brings difference to this gray world and you know I’m right!

    • there’s 6 year old’s playing call of duty. Saying stuff that i wouldn’t DARE say to anyone who ticked me off, yet your freaking out because a dad taught his kid to play a game?
      You say you play to be the best, that’s great, but don’t you think there’s other way’s of stress relief? If playing a game is pissing you off, then maybe??? find a better way? go out get a beer with buds? have a few laughs? It seem’s your the only dude wasting your time. Calling people retard’s…. i find that hilarious. I grew up hearing that crap from people because yes, i do have mental disabilities. Did that affect me? very much so, That didn’t prevent me from leaving high school top of almost all my classes. I’ve met people with diseases that crippled their body’s yet are brighter then most teacher’s I grew up with. grow up mate.

  45. Me (age on 37) and many more play this game occasionally very drunk. Especially on weekeds. Funny enough, stats seems to be better than playing sober.

    My son is born 2003 and he was active player years 2011 (launch, age of 7) to 2013 (age of 10). He has played this game with few of his friends quite much, usually skype-connected platoon. As parent, i was watching that never shoot team mates, never shoot back to shooting team mates (because there is humanarses that shoot own team, don’t be one of them) and telling him about team play.

    My dad is born 1952 and he also played lot of this game.

    My son stats are:
    5384 battles / WR: 48,11% / Max exp 1887 / Max kills in one battle 11 / 8 Ace Tanker / 35 top guns. On tank should me mentioned, M5 Stuart (81 matches, 60% WR)

    I must admit, time to time i allowed him to grind my Löwe and Type 59 for me ;)

    And those who says that no kids should be allowed to play this game… try this game with same platoon with your dad and your son… i wouldn’t change that experience to anything. (Yes, even anything you can do with woman)

  46. I’m not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings, but yet again some of the comments in the comment section is living evidence of how intolerant, ignorant and toxic this bloody WoT community can be. Stop branding the “under average” players as being the problem of the game when in fact the “superior” player are the main problem. You guys claim as if it’s your game (ergo acting as if you’re a superior human being, because your statistics say so) when in fact, you’re the ones destroying it. And then using lame excuses as “that’s how the internet works, deal with it” to justify your actions.
    This game is meant to be played by anyone, not just you because you appear to be good at the game. Stop ruining other’s fun, it isn’t all about you. Stop being egocentric and selfish, you’re not the only human being on this bloody world. So, If you have a bad game, grow some balls, learn to deal with it and get over it. If you really can’t stand a loss in a game and you have to blame it on anyone but yourself, then how are you going to succeed in real life?

    • Have you ever played team sport? The one that sucks, gets replaced, right? Why? Because everyone wants to win! Here, you can’t do that, you are stuck with bad player(s) till the end… Not trying to start a fight here, you don’t even have to replay, but it really gets annoying when you have 10defeats streak just because your team acts like they’re brain dead. Imagine how it feels when you alone have ~3k dmg and the second one in your team has less than 800 and you lose. Now imagine 40battles like that out of 100 a week, you barely get to play because of life. Now imagine that for 4 year now (I’m a beta player). And now imagine when someone tells you “it’s just a game”. I know it’s a game but come on, I’m not the one who sucks here! It’s not all about me, but it’s not all about them either! Get better or get the fuck out, big boys are playing!

      • @beert : if you’ve ever read my 1st post here, I said that there are, fortunately or unfortunately, 2 distinct communities playing WoT: those who play for fun and don’t care, and those who are playing it seriously and enjoy competition. Bothy communities obviously have the right to play the game, but the fact is that unfortunately their approach of the game is incompatible in nearly every aspect. Fun players will always whine at good players because these “feel superior” while good players will always whine at reds because “they are useless and ruin the game”. There’s no miracle solution for this, so this situation will remain this sorry and stuck forever, even if WG introduced a skill-rated MM (which they are very unlikely to do because it doesn’t match their game & economic policy).

  48. Well said.

    I was in a battle recently when a player announced that it was his 13th birthday. It became clear pretty quickly that this wasn’t somebody trolling, but it really was a person having his 13th birthday.

    The pile of abuse heaped on him by a couple of members of the team was utterly sickening. It really pisses me off that people would set out to ruin this kid’s evening just because they could.

    I was the only person to support him him in chat.

    After about 3 minutes of this, he popped up behind the worst of his tormentors and pushed the guy off a cliff, getting charged with the team kill. He did NOT turn blue, which tells you something.

    I don’t know if it’s relevant, but he was an average player, and he played an average game.

    • Average player with average game but in the end just an asshole! Probably more asshole than those who called him! As for turning blue, I shoot team idiots all the time because they are simply idiots and I never get blue! Why? Because I’m a good player! Not that fag who cares only about stats, but a fighter who wants his team to win no mater what! My best battle with BatChat started with me destroying full hp friendly T9 TD because he was an asshole! I finished that battle with 8 kills, last shell killing last enemy! And I’d do it every time!

      • Why can’t you write a single response without swearing like a drunken sailor? Do you think it adds something to the point you are trying to make? Or did you simply watch too many films ‘made in Murica’?

        • I’m sorry if I offended you, but swearing is the only way “internet” will actually understand you. Talking polite seems to confuse “the internet” and no wonder since it is filled by 9yo pro cod players who sleep with everyone’s mothers every night, if you know what I mean. Btw, by “internet” I mean today’s users… Further more, I really can’t find polite word for the words I said because the ones I said perfectly describe most of the players in this game, including me from time to time but I become “asshole” only when irritated by extremely bad efficiency players use! I don’t use mods, I don’t know if someone is red or not, I don’t even use gold shells for god’s sake but I do watch how people play and it annoys me beyond!

          • I am not offended.

            I think think you’re decreasing the power of your words by swearing a lot.

            Granted, you may feel the need to swear in order to have any chance of getting through to those of feeble mind. but why would you want to talk to those beings in the first place?

  49. Thanks to both Kantti and SS for this post. It’s a nice reality check.

    A couple points:

    1. This shows why it’s downright retarded to not have a league-based MM in the game. Forcing 7-year olds who can’t even read yet and 25-year pros to play in the same matches is stupid beyond comprehension. And yet, WoT is popular and getting awards for this?? Idiocracy, here we come.

    2. 7-year old should not be playing this kind of game, period. It’s bad parenting. Not only because he’s exposed to online flaming, but because 7 year olds should play football or something and work physically, not play computer games (and this is coming from someone who has been playing games for 25 years). Moreover, he is willfully letting his team down. I too started gaming at around 7 years, but those were Game Boy and acrade single-player games, not an online game where 14 people depended on me. I find it stupid and really disrespectful to let your kid play a game where the only thing he can do is underperform and let his teammates down. Shame on you.

    • Bad parenting? Yep, you have point there, about how humanarses are verbally abusing, but bad parenting to allow your kid to play this game, especially with you and your grandad is… somewhat limited viewpoint.

      Even if this is bad parenting, there’s seems to be lot of bad parents in wot community. Since my son were 3 other kids of his age to active playing this game.

      My son plays now minecraft more, so i bet he won’t hit the 6k matches mark.

      EDIT:
      One thing i’m very proud of… my son can laugh about those retarded chat tormentors, and that laugh is sincere.

    • Thanks for a constructive feedback.

      Just one of the main points of whole article was to question, what is to underperform? Who then may play this game if a 7 year old can compete with the bottom 20% of whole playerbase in quite equal terms? He does his job just like an adult who is incompetent in playing and unlike the adult, my kid is learning all the time. How you can set the age as criteria here when the skill is the one that is causing the difficulties….

      • Firstly, Kantti, thanks for not flipping out, since I really wasn’t very tactful, or, let’s say, “diplomatic”, in my post. :))

        It is my wish that everyone could play the game, which is why I’m advocating for a league-based MM, like the one in Starcraft 2. This way, bad players would mostly be matched to bad players and good to good and everyone would be happy and shooting cars and driving over trees … except for seal clubbers. :D But as we have it, WG doesn’t give a crap about it and we have all sorts of people in a match.

        Now, this is a matter of perspective and I really don’t want this to sound like I’m trying to lecture you on parenting. But I wouldn’t put my kid in a competitive environment where he can’t at least be reasonably good, if not the best; especially when other players depend on him. That’s why you don’t enlist kids into veteran football brackets – it’s pointless. I find it disrespectful to other players to willfully put a player, who can’t perform at the top, into a match. For me, that’s like platooning with a t1 troll tank in a t10 match. Not because there would be anything wrong with your kid (quite the opposite, he seems to be bright!), but because he’s just to young for this crap.

        You said it well – he can at this point reliably compete and win over the bottom 20% of WoT players. But still, would you want to have a player like that on your side in a random match? I wouldn’t.

        I just don’t see what good can letting such a young person into this game bring. :/ I don’t see the point – apart from seeing your kid enjoy stuff. I understand that he enjoys it and seeing your child enjoy anything is always beautiful. But there’s a price for this. In this case, he can let other players down, because he’s too young to perform well in the game. As long as he stays at low tiers where there are a lot of players like him, it isn’t that much of a problem. But in the mid and high tiers, it can become.

        As far as I’m concerned – moar tank museum visits, less tank gamez, kthxbai. :P

        • If he gives him heroin the kid will enjoy it for sure. Now, forgive me for the harsh example, but the question here is: Why don’t you give heroine to your 7 y old son?

          • Hmmm….lemme take a stab at this one: because heroin will kill the kid within minutes?

            Notice the difference between an instant killer drug AND A SIMPLE INTERNET GAME?!

            • With proper use of it it will take years for that. I mean, there are plenty of metal stars, that are abusing this drug since the late ’70 and are yet still alive… As a matter of fact the frustration, the gaming itself will do a lot of damage to his mind and it’s highly possible that he’ll become a mentally weak person because of the game.. My point is, that as parent one should look after his child’s health more than at his “fun”. Trust me, it’s very funny for kids to smoke, drink etc. but it’s forbidden and there is no normal person that would allow his son things like that. But when your IQ value is close to that of the temperature in the room we witness such articles…

  50. “In order to take part in the World of Tanks MMO Game, participants (“Players”) must be 13 years of age or older.”

    13 is probably more correct than ESRB, USK (12) and PEGI (7).

    Keep him at tier 3 and below, it is awful to see a tomato as a top tier tank and can’t carry the team.

    • @Xelos on September 14, 2014 at 4:33 pm said:
      “Keep him at tier 3 and below, it is awful to see a tomato as a top tier tank and can’t carry the team.”

      By the time this boy reaches tier 10 he is more than capable of carrying his team. Kids learn everything and if they enjoy doing it they learn even faster.

      I’m more worried of those ADULTS who CANNOT learn basic tank driving mechanism after 10k battles.

  51. Should this and should that.

    One thing about parenting. You as dad who love tanks, you love when you son loves also tanks. Thats human thing.

    Anyway, should this and shoud that, this is 3 generations game. There are plenty of under 13 players in this game, and i’m sure that those are not one ruining this game. You need quite high-end pc to play this and i’m sure that every 7 yo kid there is one crazy tanker dad ;)

    peace.

    EDIT:
    My son’s one of favourite tanks is Hellcat with WR 55%. About 150 battles under belly. Tier 7 is max he had tried.

    • Don’t let anyone tell you how to raise your offspring. People usually don’t understand what good parenting is so they give other people “advice”.

      Enjoying time with your kids is what all parents must do. If it means playing tank warfare then it’s as good as playing football or drawing pixies. Heck, my father never played stuff with me since he was always working. Now after 26 years we’re building our relationship again.

      As for those who think they know what “good parenting” is:
      Good parent is there to give security and limits but also there to support and be for you. That’s it. Support and Protect. Not spoil or in other hand be the Nazi.

      Keep up the good work on raising that future Clan Leader. May his shells fly true and his tracks never break!

      Orfiel, [PAJAVASARA] Kuopio, Finland

  52. who learns to ride his bike and sometimes falls on the street.
    _______________
    This is what your son at that age should be doing and not sitting on a PC playing games.

    • What if he has already learnt to drive bike and enjoys it every day as we don’t have a car and cycle everywhere? Just like he enjoys his boardgames, his floorball trainings, spontaneous football on the yard, parkour and adventuring. And after those are done (or before he engages with those), he uses 4 hours every weekend (thats 4 hours in whole week) to one more hobby he enjoys and develops different things… Quite hasty judgement based on a feeling that kids shouldn’t do this or that… Perhaps you should trust parents to make good judgement on what their kids can do and leave parenting to those who are the one and only experts with _their_ kids.

      But yeah, I know the type. The one who says that don’t drive too fast, or better don’t drive at all with your bicycle, because it is dangerous. And scolds me when I let my kid climb trees, because it is dangerous. And tells our kids to be more silent as that fooball on yard disturbs his feng shui. And when I ask from him what was best thing in his youth, he says to have enjoyed most of those things…. Pretty akward ain’t it?

        • All that is alright and i agree with you. I just know that i’ve spent my childhood doing stuff like that and not playing on PC and today i’m spending a lot of time on internet/PC and i can say for sure i was much happier doing stuff outside than today. Modern technology is killing social life and your kid will have a lot of time to spend online, but at least now when he’s only 7 make him enjoy life outside.

          • 4 hours a week is hardly killing your social life. Maybe now when you’re adult (if you’re adult?) it’s doing so but that’s only because you hang on the web for most of your free time (maybe, I don’t know).

            Anyway I also had happy childhood in countryside. No internet, no computer, no consoles until I was 13 years old. But I still enjoyed visiting my friend once or twice a week and have a few hours of playtime with his SNES. And later playing Diablo online with my friends (through AWFUL modem and big phone bills…). Not bad memories, no lonely years hiding under my shell.

            VIDEOGAMES DO NOT MAKE YOU ANTI-SOCIAL. Work, school, pressures, stress, huge expectations of life, relationships(!)…these make you anti-social.

  53. This game is made for everybody, so it is just fine that your kid plays it, but i hope that i do not meet him in my team.

  55. Your kid is just learning to read at age 7.

    You as a father need to get your priorities straight, reading is THE MOST IMPORTANT skill for a kid beyond the basics of walking, potty training and ideally talking. I learnt to read when I was like 2 years old, which led here to the point where I can play 1000 matches a month without affecting my university GPA much. I really hope you meant he couldn’t read at 5.5 years in terms of being unable to understand the more complex stuff being screamed in chat. Because otherwise you are going to have a hell of a time getting him to deal with the education system and I would almost feel sorry for you if it wasn’t your own fault for not building reading habits early enough.

    • Now this is an interesting approach, I have to admit. Here in Finland (as I have replied in other comments), it is customary to start school the year kid turns seven. They learn to read only at school at first year. Some do learn that before that, yes, but most only at school. Still somehow Finnish education system manages to be in top of PISA listings as one of the most efficient ones in producing brilliant youngsters. I learnt reading only when I was seven and now I am finishing my PhD just next month.

    • We in Finland (and in whole Scandinavia) let our kids really be kids until age of 7. And even after that in school kids stay kids while learning. We don’t put them into huge stress or make them face life decisions until their mid teens when they have to decide whether they go to which high school or start learning some profession.

      I learned to read and write at age of 7, in school, but I knew few letters and words before that (I recognized a word familiar from product or whatever). It did not make me any more stupid that any other kid. I still managed to finish my university degree and now I’m learning new profession which is my true calling.
      And I don’t know about your country education systems but at least in Finland schools or universities are not expecting students to have zero life outside educations. 1000 matches a month is really not big deal, I can throw in extra 1000 and still it wont have any effect on my progress.

  56. Thanks for this article, it’s the second one I read in the last 3 days about kids playing WOT and gives me some good perspectives.

    Yes, my 8yo kid is also playing and yes he’s playing since he was 7.
    I fully agree with your conclusions and have reached the same some time ago, after watching my kid play.

    I will start by provoking all the parenting and no-noob-kids crowds by saying that my kid plays way more than Kantti’s. So you can throw your comments at me, but you know what? I’ve considered them and I believe I’m doing the right thing as a parent and green player.

    Some stats:
    5k games
    WN8: 530 (781 on his last 1k battles)
    Win rate: 47.38%
    Average exp: 276
    Max exp: 2013
    Average kills: 0.62
    KDR: 0,75
    Hit Ratio: 58%
    Battles survived: 16,97%
    Ace tankers: 10/99
    Days played: 435
    Average battles per day: 12.3 (9.03 on his last 1k battles)
    Max tier: 9 (but he’s not playing the IS8 yet, mostly plays tiers 5-7)

    Kaanti, to give you my feedback about the downsides of WOT, as outlined above, my decision is to let my kid be exposed to all the dirty talk, while telling him he’s not allowed to use it and telling him all those guys are stupid (not sure what’s the right word in English) for not being able to control their temper.

    I’m also an example to him, never swearing, or showing anger, though I am giving advice to other players. It’s right that my kid does not know English well enough to understand what others are telling him and he gets some share of insults but I am not concerned. I went through this in my early school years and it is much worst to have it in your face from a bully, who’s maybe even spitting you and kicking your ass, than having some words written in the chat. And if I survived and did not turn into a violent aggressive person, than I’m sure he won’t do it either. Actually I know it as I follow the reports from school and camps.

    As for hurting the quality of play for his team, yes he does it from time to time, he wants to have fun and shoot stuff or try wild things. But he’s learning and he’s not an idiot so he’s not repeating his mistakes time and time again. Of course, when he’s platooning with his friends, he’s hurting the team, because that invites for more playing with each other, than doing all for the victory. At their age, they are not really so interested in the competition.

    But for all other players, you know what? Rather than complain about poor players, why don’t you adapt? Observe what they are doing and get into a position that allows you to profit for their actions. And even more, do your best individually and enjoy that, instead of bitching for a loss because 3 young kids did not support your lonely yolo advance.

    Moreover, there are many adults which are just as bad, or worst than my kid, or other kids because they are playing drunk, or actually afk because their wife or boss called them. Just deal with it, instead of raging against it.

    • And to add some fire to the rage (I’m half troll, but I follow the sarcastic school of trolling), these are the stats of my kid’s cousins and best friends:

      Player 1 (9yo)
      2010 games
      WN8: 183 (244 on his last 1k battles)
      Win rate: 44.98%
      Average exp: 185
      Max exp: 940
      Average kills: 0.37
      KDR: 0,44
      Hit Ratio: 49%
      Battles survived: 16,8%
      Ace tankers: 0/55
      1st class: 3/55
      Days played: 228
      Average battles per day: 8.8 (4.9 on his last 1k battles)
      Max tier: 7 (mostly plays tiers 5-6)

      Player 2 (12yo)
      2922 games
      WN8: 320
      Win rate: 46.71%
      Average exp: 227
      Max exp: 1272
      Average kills: 0.49
      KDR: 0,55
      Hit Ratio: 46%
      Battles survived: 11,8%
      Ace tankers: 7/74
      Days played: 433
      Average battles per day: 6.7
      Max tier: 8 (mostly plays tiers 5-7)

      They socialize a lot by playing and are also happy to play outside at family reunions. I’d rather have them as best friends for my kid than some other kids form around the block (quite colorful neighborhood).
      Rage session open.

  57. meh. i guess i’m just a moron then. i didn’t stay down in the low tiers very much as a young player. in fact i’m playing low tiers now more than ever to make money. (i hate playing most of my prems.) this may have hurt my stats quite a bit.

    i also don’t play OP tanks. (e-25 is in no way shape or form an op tank, and i hardly ever play it regardless)

    i hardly ever platoon as well. in about 12,000 battles ive platooned maybe 100 or 200 of those lol

  59. I don’t wanna sound like an edgy cunt or asshole and I know it’s rude to tell others how to parent their kids.
    But shouldn’t that guy be proud of other things?
    First words?
    First day of school?
    And I dunno.
    I would rather oil myself in lemon oil and then papercut myself than let my 5 year old offspring play such a game.
    This article made me kinda sad.

    • Would you have been more eager to read how proud I am of those things instead of me and my kids relation to WoT in FTR? I have plenty of occasions to talk about other sources of pride I feel because of my kids. But this is WoT blog…

  60. Teenagers have the best eye-hand coordination that’s why most o them are good players as individuals 1vs1 players, but under some age, let’s say 14 years old with some exception of course, they are not able to fully understood terms like “tactics”, “strategy”, “choke points”, etc, that’s why they are not good team players. This i had experienced in team battles. However a 7 years old kid is just a 7 years old, he play “cars” that shoot other “cars” nothing less, nothing more.

  62. The most important point of OP’s article IMHO was this: ” You don’t wish cancer to a 6-year old random kid, who learns to ride his bike and sometimes falls on the street. Don’t do it here either.”

    Funny nobody picked up on that. But I guess the discussion about the value of stats is much more important than the discussion about how to behave like a decent human being. After all, who cares about that? There’s nothing like stats to determine a man’s value, right?

  63. Well, happy to see a father who is willingly working for his sons degeneration, even he is so young. In general video games are not allowed for kids under 12, because of the damage they do to the youngster’s mental growth, but when the father decides… However, what I feel unnatural is that ego (father’s ego) who values his own son wicked fun way more than that of the players in both teams, his son’s and the enemy. Here I wish to ask why he does not platoon with his own tomato, but that’s another theme. I really, really hate such egoistic idiots!

  65. What a terrible parent. If i know that there are sharks in the water i would not send my child to play in it. We all know that online gaming is the sinkhole of the human kind. By the way the game has a 12+ rating. I think its a age rating, but they should change it to 12+ IQ.

  66. You can’t treat random games too seriously. Random is random.
    If you think you’re pro, go for team battles, clan wars or at least platoons of 3.

    If any game frustrates you – don’t play it.

    Kids will always play games, especially free to play games.
    My kid started to play when he was 4. Now he’s 12 and kicks ass in many titles. The PEGI and other EULA restrictions are outdated wishfull thinking.

    I see so many tomatos in very late night hours on EU servers, and they just can’t be 6-8 y old children.

  67. Pingback: [Sammelthread] World of Tanks - Seite 1813

  68. You, Kantti, are like a dad sending his son to the local soccer ground, seeing him running through the players, clapping enthusiastically, when he kicks the ball off the field.
    Sure, many guys in WoT have a lack of social competence and you are one of them. WG should setup a lame duck arena on tier 6-10, where low rating guys can play with their own kind. They should balance matches, so both teams have about 50% prediction. Otherwise these guys ruin thousands of gameplays.

    • You apparently think that kicking the ball off the field is wrong. You have no clue about football.

      But then again, your use of the incorrect term (soccer) implied that already.

  69. so 10 battles a day, every day, for a 7 year old?

    Someone call fucking child services on that guy. Your computer is NOT A BABYSITTER

  71. Pingback: Psychology of bad players | Clan Pack wot

  72. I let my six old play, he has been since he was 4, he is able to read, so he knows what they are saying…I wish people would just remember its a game and they started somewhere as well.

    He loves the KV2 and one shooting people.

  73. The article’s points asides…this game is clearly rated for ages 14 and up…so WHY THE HELL DOES THIS IDIOT TEACH HIS THEN-5 1/2-YEAR-OLD KID HOW TO PLAY WOT!?!?!?

    • Because he can, didn’t your dad teach anything before he should?
      Also each person is different, and based on his skill level it is not an issue.

      • He learned to play when he was 5 1/2, and 18 months has passed since then. Maybe YOU should learn to not overlook the details.

        Granted, I’ll admit I’m impressed with how well the kid performs for his age, but my point still stands, however, as this is why the stereotype of the raging 12-year-old brat claiming to have slept with your mother while playing and sucking at a game not intended for his age group exists (I’m not saying that this kid is like that, but the fact that there ARE kids his age playing a game that they aren’t supposed to is why the stereotype exists). It’s just irresponsible.

        • “rated for ages 14 ”
          Mistake there :)

          Anyways, PEGI and ESRB are guidelines. If a parent decides their child is mature enough AND even PLAYS with them, then I see nothing wrong. Even in a 5 year old playing Wolfenstein.

          I was 3 when I started gaming. And it was DooM and Wolfenstein 3D that got me into it.

  74. The minimum age for World of Tanks is 13 years old, kids younger than 13 are not only ruining the game for others but are in fact breaking the rules of the game and need to be banned. If you ever get proof of someone being under age just send it to support and get them banned for the good of the community.

    • It is 7.
      No rules are broken…
      You can be banned for that.

      I expected PC gamers to be smarter and know what PEGI and ESRB are.

      People like you though? You either need a “special” gaming class or a nice week long ban.

  75. I personally do not think all the Red Players are idiots/scrubs or whatsoever they are being called… as long as they do not do some very obvious stupid things like… Pushing a teammate, exposing a teammate position,Team Killing, Suicidal Runs, drowning themselves or even ranting about stats at the start of the game to demoralize the entire team…

    I am not a Blue/Purple player, just a Green… however the mentality of some “good players” does make me mad at times as well… it is a team effort to win a Battle, yet, I see some green/blue hiding so far behind, because getting their stats is more important than a team win, while the Friendly tanks in the front getting pounded by SPGs, pinned down by TDs, flanked by MTs and the “good players” on the team can’t get a hit on the enemies. I even see arguments of “blue player” messaging a “red player” calling him a noob and stealing his position and causing him to die… I laughed at it, because, obviously, I do think any experienced players, should be able to adapt to circumstances. If your position is stolen, move to other positions to support, it doesn’t necessary have to be in that specific position that you can perform. however it does not seem like that is the case for some certain “experienced” players as they have called themselves to be.

    Now, I do not have any grudges against Red or Blue stats players.. I do see some Blue players, deserving their status as an experienced tanker… and I do see them working hard to carry a team, and I do respect them for what they did, trying so hard for the team. On the other hand, I also do see some Red players who are willing to learn, and improve over time, whether they are kids, teenagers or adults, as long as they are willing to learn.. and some of them, need some anger management.

    Also again, its called Random Battle, if you wan high level of game play, it is better to join a Tank Company, Team Battle, Stronghold Battle or even Clan War… and also its a Game, and a game is meant to be fun, and enjoyable, if you can’t handle or enjoy playing it, take a break.

  76. So let me get some comments straight. Age excuses everything and it’s ok to play the game just for ramming people. Because if that’s what makes fun, then just and only ram people. No shooting, just ramming. Just pick the parts that make fun and ignore everything else like Teammates, Strategy, Hiding, caping. Seems legit.

    And what if self-drowning is the only thing, that makes fun for me ? Is it still ok ?

  77. I am from 10-14 (I don’t want to say my age), and yet most people of world of tanks are worse. At eight thousand battles, and tier 9, my current Wn8 is only 1200, and thats okay. But my recent is 2000. I have a 51% win rate. Its always funny when people who are 29 say NOOB TWICKY! UNINSTALL! And yet they have 800 WN8? You can see it from my recent videos. And I mean recent. My older videos are when I was a 400 WN8 noob. You can see from my newest chaffee heartbreak video that I can get the equivalent of 2000 experience, 3600 damage, and still lose after killing 4 in a 1v6. So for all you jerks out there who call me an idiot…
    Look at your recent WN8 you idiot.