Hello everyone,
normally I am trying to avoid Wargaming topics in any way, but this is something that’s actually quite abstract and doesn’t apply to World of Tanks only. The French Tier 2-7 line is a good example.
Basically, what happened: Yuri Pasholok recently wrote in RU community an angry post that he proposed a tier 2 to 7 French HT line to Wargaming but “evil people” from balancing department threw his proposal out of window and only added tier 8, 9 and 10. Some idiots translated Yuri’s rant and dumped it in the western community without any context whatsoever as usual, making the balancing department look like bad guys – OMG, we could have had a tier 2 to 10 line but evil balancing scraps perfectly good proposals!!!1111
No.
Let’s talk about the basic principles of creating tank lines in any tank game (WoT, AW, WT… whatever). Okay, maybe not WT, but whatever, you get my meaning. In order to be implemented, a line has to:
- be from an attractive nation (France has that covered)
- be full of realistic vehicles (more or less covered)
- be attractive to play
The last part is where Yuri’s line didn’t pass the check (I have a rough idea how his proposal looked like). Basically, it was full of TOGs, stuff like this:
Now, consider the TOG. Sure, it’s hilarious to watch in videos, but those of you who own it: do you actually REALLY enjoy it? Do you seriously play the TOG when you want to have results, or just to troll around? Because TOG is slow and big. Not a great combination. Yes, you can do well with it. Yes, it can grind money. But is it really, really FUN?
And now, imagine a whole line of them. Is that truly beneficial for any game, having a line of vulnerable, slow, derpy HT’s? You think the Japanese HTs are bad? Check out some of the French designs…
The reason for Yuri’s outburst isn’t the fact that the playerbase lost something amazingly fun, it’s the fact his collecting of resources for it went to waste as well as other reasons which I will not name here.
Generally speaking, creating lines that are not attractive to players is not a good idea and while I am sure many of you will not share my opinion, I think that there are very, very few things less attractive than a line full of massive, slow targets with mediocre armor.
Well, maybe a full megaderp arty line would come close :)
Who cares? Most of the japanese heavies never made it past the drawing board and are OP as hell.
Many of those french superheavies existed, or had wooden mock-up or prototypes. Not all of them are TOG-like too. They are derpy, and some were supposed to be really heavily armored.
The FCA1M (or whatever its name was), built in 1917, was an awesome tank, the first turreted heavy tank, that deserves to be in game.
The reason why Wargaming ditched them isn’t because they aren’t fun to play (how many tanks and lines aren’t fun to play?). It’s because France isn’t considered cool (look at the Battlefield I disaster, with the main western front army to be added later on, as a DLC, to please Kevin and Jason, who think the US won WWI), and thus nobody plays french tanks. That’s about it. Making a tank fun solely depends on how WG balance them out.
I disagree with the last sentence. You have to consider that WoT is (for better or worse) more restricted by actual real life performance than for example AW. The vehicles would be slow and would have mediocre armor, there’s no way around it.
please don’t joke about a TOG line, sure you are using a comparision but there’s a lots of players out there doing some kind of research on a TOG line for the british
it’s obvious most are probably internet fakes but many people think all are real and want to implement such absurd line, I get nightmares just thinking
“what if that challenger historian guy found those online on showed them to WG?”
“It’s because France isn’t considered cool”
That’s not a reason to ditch few years of research and developing, really. If they were fun to play, they’d be considered cool, that’s connected to each other.
And comparing them to Japanese heavies is completely off – Jp heavies have armour. These things don’t. Compare O-I to TOG, which one would you prefer to play every day, if TOG wasn’t premium (didn’t make money). And would you like to play 5 or 6 such tanks in a row to actually get to interesting tier 8?
Of course I enjoy my TOG what kind of question is this.
I think slow+meh armor is not a combination for fun to most people :o)
One doesn’t purchase things that aren’t fun to play;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmKv0mjkdaU
Since we’re talking about sales – actually, from what I know, TOG sales were relatively quite low.
Seriously SS
what the hell is this post?
It is just subjective interpretation.
1) The french super heavies do have armor unlike the TOG, the considered T6 FCM F1 or Char de Forteresse has 120/120/120 mm hull armor or 120/100/100 (source dependent) for example,
2) These tanks have a higher top speed then the TOG,
3) these tanks have bigger guns then the TOG,
4) Many players enjoy big super-heavy tanks.
1) What makes you think Yuri’s line has that vehicle on tier 6?
2) Char Lourd FCM1A: 6 km/h for example?
3) Yes. 155mm on Tier 4 for example. Lovely.
4) Define “many”. As far as I can tell from looking at the Japanese HT stats, it’s not a super popular branch
1) What makes you think he doesnt have it there?
2) How do you know that this tank is part of the line? Also, top speed is a balance paramter now.
3) T5 & T6 tanks can have 90 mm guns and 105 mm guns. Some sources even mention 120 mm guns.
4) The JP heavy branch is popular, although both the top tiers at t9 and t10 are total crap. This was said in a Q&A. Many people love the unconventional tanks, even if you dont do it.
1) Because I have an idea what is there :)
2) see 1) – but okay, fair enough. The top speed of the entire line is 30 km/h IIRC, but some are slower
3) Nope
4) To paraphrase Churchill: “I never trust any Q&A that I didn’t falsify myself” :D Jokes aside, looking at WoT-News numbers, compare for example Tier 6 heavies of all classes. You will find out that the Japanese are the least popular ones of all of them.
1) Still guessing :)
2) 30 km/h, thats more then twice the TOGs top speed ! Fair enough!
3) Just not true.
4) Okay some numbers, at least something.
will it really be a mix of super-heavy (in comparision to the standard of when those were designed) and a bit more armored but slightly less mobile “copies” of the current top tier french heavies?
I remember you posting a Q&A sometime like 2 or 3 years ago on wich a dev (probably Storm since he did most Q&As back then) said every major nation (back then were US, French and Soviet) could build a Super-Heavy line (I think you even made a article on some Super-heavies after that) just like Germany (since they already had theirs)
last year (or early this year, can’t remember exactly when Rita posted it with changing the blog and all of that) Yuri P. said in a Q&A that he had enough material for 2 french heavy lines, since “1+1=2″ one of those lines would be a Super-heavy line and the other would be the infamous “french heavy line with armor”
we already know about the Somua SM and AMX-65t as tier 7 and 8, since they have “wasted” the AMX M4 1949 as a premium, wich was hinted as a tier 10 on the “unofficial” 2nd heavy line back when the French were added) and Yuri P. said one of his top tier candidates were a variants/different proposals of the AMX-50 (possibly the “Surblindé” if it was actually a uparmored AMX-50)
maybe he had other options, possibly not all being heavies but mediums with good armor at low tiers (wich the French have several), and it wouldn’t be a mix of heavies and Super-heavies as you expect
none of us can be sure but you yourself said praised the WG RU historical team saying they are serious about their work back when you met with them for the “Czech” tech tree, the best we can do is give them a chance regarding this matter
The FCM 1A actually had a top speed of 10/12 km/h
„Seriously SS, what the hell is this post? It is just subjective interpretation”.
Umm… The post is the true, TRUE sign that ftr is back. For SS’s subjective interpretation might be… well, subjective, but it is an informed *opinion* from a guy that actually thinks for himself.
I was sick and tired of Rita and my co-national’s TAP blog, always regurgitating some „leaks”, always saying sorry for being sleepy/busy/whatever for posting old info (be it from a month ago or half a minute, fake apology).
SilentStalker is not presenting us some boring columns of data that only a no-lifer would memorise, and he has the brain to actually form an opinion way above the copy-paste of historical archives, quotes from cuddly developers that have their own agenda, and boring stream advertorials intended for wankers that hope a girl would let a boob out.
So let me say it loud and clear, now that the blog is not only declaratively active:
Welcome back, SS! This is why I’m coming here!
Ahh, people being angry and easily offended in the comments section. FTR is back! Bring on the saltiness!
#Barbu you know that in the first post when he announced the return of FTR he said this wouldn’t be dedicated to WoT (for obvious reasons to someone who has followed his blog for at least 2 or 3 years) but purely historical
P.S: something is wrong with your head
“quotes from cuddly developers that have their own agenda”
so you are saying that SS can have his own opinion but the devs can’t? aren’t they also human? of course the devs are free to think whatever they like but that’s exactly why there’s people above them with the responsibility of observing everything so that the game doesn’t end in “on side wins all” or “there’s nothing else you can play with”, sure there is things they have done wrong (AKA bias and minor things like a single OP vehicle on a entire line) and these will keep hapenning since it’s something that although undesired happen to all games, or would you say Battlefield or COD are perfect?
then there’s this thing:
“boring stream advertorials intended for wankers that hope a girl would let a boob out”
sure it’s true that amongst her followers/subscribers (or whatever) there are some/many that are there expecting that but it doesn’t change the fact you are being disrespectful towards her since she doesn’t do that
about TAP, what can you expect when they spend most of their time on the comment section bragging that they are better or do their articles on their own, it’s not like Rita ever claimed to be a source of historical content and from what I remember SS asked us (before stoping FTR) if we would like to have Rita do the Q&A translations
that’s how it all started and since then many things changed, or will you actually blame others for having a life of their own? if so I can only imagine how you reacted to SS stoping FTR when he got a job with Obsidian
remember one thing, while it’s true they do need us to keep doing whatever they do that doesn’t mean they are our personal content criators that have to do what they do when we want to see it, even SS had in the past gone weeks without new content other than Q&As but that is because he has things he has to take care that we have nothing to do with it other than respect they have the need for that
if you disagree then the next thing you will say is that when SS was sick last year he had still to create new content just for you because that’s what he is here for, despite already making an effort to simply translate Q&As for us
I think the real problem is, that these tanks need to implemented awesome with multi turret support, but WG didnt implement it yet (but they have working prototype they said).
They have had at least 6 over the last two years. And I don’t expect to see it anytime soon.
I’d buy them and I’d love them, like my 250 other babies in my garage :)
I still have the hope, that WG finds ways to implement more of all kinds of tanks, even if it’s the French freak tanks ;) . Heck, I’d even love them to do WWI tanks. Maybe their popularity gained through Battlefield 1 is going to boost something in that direction. Wishful thinking, but a man can still dream.
Maybe they can get in the game by PvE battles or special PvP game modes. Or make them even more of a HP-Piñata that then TOG II* already is to give them some survivability. All I say is, I still dream of WoT becoming THE playable tank encyclopedia (at least volume I, with AW representing volume II).
AND, as WG just sucks at doing more battle modes with the tanks already implemented, maybe they get to invent a fun mode for those big ol’ Frenchies and WWI-slugs.
BTW, thanks for doing your thing again, SS. We missed you :)
Too bad they deny the hell machines … Thank you for clearing it up, Stalker!
Dear Frank, I see you have a lot of free time on you my.ru job, and you are more annoying they you were, when you were relevant, BUT calling people idiots (!?) for doing their “job” is so low even for you…
Of course it is always possible to buff them to be more playable, like some other tanks lines we could mention.
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This decision was made to stop players from having to play mediocre tanks. But u are going to have to grind the m4 45 to get this one. That thing ticks the mediocre box so hard it isn’t funny. So either way players are going to have to play mediocre tanks more than necessary. War gaming kinda shot themselves in the foot with this one. May as well just implement the line, it would struggle to suck as much as another t8 grind in the m4 45.
Couldn’t the lines be more complete if WG was not wasting precious tanks to create premiums?
The CDC that was perfect as tier 8, and the AMX M4 (1949) makes a French heavy less. We also have the Somua SM, the status of the Lorraine 40t is unknown …
I’ve been waiting for the superheavy French line since they’ve been mentioned to appear in WoT.
I love wacky designs, no matter how (dis)functional they were. Just make the tanks playable and not OP. Introducing tanks that would normally give tank general a headache is part of the charm to this game.
Now we will get another half-assed “line” just like the French medium one, because WG’s standard utter lack of competence.
The „Idiots” SS did not bother to name want this tree a lot too. I can only assume you are aware of them.
“Just make the tanks playable and not OP.”
I dunno if you read the article, but that’s exactly the problem.
I dunno if you’ve used your brain while reading my post, but I was pointing out that the balancing department could for once do their goddamn job. We’ve been waiting how many years for those tanks to come? Enough to lose any hope. We can wait some more for a complete line.
And if someone doesn’t want to go through “the TOGs” to get to the top tiers, it’s not like this game doesn’t allow to make links between different lines. Make them researchable from one of the current heavies and the problem is solved.
There’s another factor that you have to see with the French superheavies, their historical appeal. Many people would like to see these tanks compared to more random Russian prototypes, if WG treated the French like they did the Russians we would probably be having a sale on the R35 with FCM turret today. These tanks are actually unique compared to most of the tanks that they’re adding currently, and they actually fit into the WWI/WWII theme of the game. There are lots of people who have heard of the Char 2C and FCM F1 and would love to see them in game. Even if they sucked, I would still play them just to see them in game
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Well I’m still hoping for the Char 2C and FCM F1 in some form someday. I’d buy them, even if they were premiums.
heavy French tanks, poor armor ??? serious??? really???
you made at least a minimum searched heavy tanks French before saying that ???,
the FCM1A, the FCM-2C, the char d’arret (STCC), B1 and B40 ter,
regarding other heavy prewar French tanks had most had at least one armor approaching 100 mm, see at least 100 mm minimum armor
for better armored, and there are nearly 10 heavy tanks like this,
they are possible only in third 5-6, 7 for the best of them,
and 100 mm of armor in tier V-VI is strong, even very strong,
without being almost invincible as can be the Japanese O-I
les chars lourd français, une armure médiocre??? sérieux??? vraiment???
vous avez fait au moins un minimum cherché sur les chars lourds français avant de dire cela???,
les FCM1A, le FCM-2c, le char d’arret (STCC), B1 ter et B40,
pour ce qui est des autres chars lourds français d’avant guerre la plupart avait avaient au moins une armure avoisinant les 100 mm, voir au moins 100 mm d’armure minimum
pour les mieux blindés, et il y a pres de 10 chars lourds comme cela,
ils ne sont possibles que dans les tiers 5-6, 7 pour le meilleur d’entre eux,
et 100 mm d’armure en tier V-VI, c’est solide, très solide meme,
sans pour autant être quasi-invincible comme peut l’être le O-I japonais
Indeed, those tanks do have actually great armor for their tier :)
SS is back!!
See the info recovered by Teckyota in the branch he called ” les Chars lourds de contact” composed partly of superheavy tanks : http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/316995-larbre-francais/
TOG II is one of the best tank for midlevel clan wars fo resources. And is really dangerous beast in random near 60% of victories on 200 battles in my not so straight hands.
But – I have already 50-100 and 7 level already sold – so I miss this branch at all – I simply didnt want play 200 more battles on it without skilled crew. And I’m already stuck on 13-90 with new medium.
But whole new branch from 2 level allow to train crew at least at first perk. So I’m sure, that cropped branch without autoloaders will not be much popular.