Possible Alternate Tier 8 American Premium Mediums

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Now the Americans already have one don’t they? Well, by playstyle the T26E4 doesn’t really fit the stereotypical medium role does it? So are there any other vehicles that could be introduced to fit in a tier 8 premium medium spot? Yes, a lot actually.

Lets start off with the more logical choices. The T42 might be the easiest vehile to implement. Historically the T42 was based off the T37 light tank and was to be better armored than the M46 while keeping approximately the same firepower. The T42′s turret was used in the M46E1(upgraded M46) and the  M47 Patton. The chassis is already ingame as the T69′s chassis while the turret and gun are represented by the M46′s upgraded turret and the 90 mm gun M36. The T42 would have 4 crew members and could achieve speeds of 51 km/h (with 13.3 hp/t).

T42 med

Another choice is the M47 Patton itself. The M47 used a hull based off the M46 Patton but featured better sloping so the protection would be equal to the T42 hull. The gun is the same as the T42(the M36). The M47 had a top speed of 48 km/h while having 15.9 hp/t. The M47 should be superior to the T42 in mobility besides top speed, also you get to train 5 crew members in it. I’d be happy with an M47 premium but I’d like to have the M47 as a researchable tank at tier 9 and have the M26 and M46 combined as a single tier 8 tank, we could see it in the Euro Tree too.

You could have the M47 as a German Premium too…

The T25 and the T25E1 were modified T23s that were fitted with the  90 mm gun T7(aka M3) in a new turret. The T25E1 used a more conventional transmission because the original T23 Electric transmission(used in the T25) couldn’t deal with the weight being added. The T25E1 would be a better choice than the original T25 in my honest opinion.  The T25E1′s turret was 76 mm thick with an 89 mm thick mantlet. The frontal armor is 76 mm thick at a 46 degree slope to protect the crew of 5. The T25E1 could reach speeds of 56 km/h but only in short spurts, its sustained top speed was 48 km/h and had 12.9 hp/t. the T25E1 would be the most sluggish and weakest armed and armored out of these 3 vehicles and would need good “soft” stats for compensation.

Now for some prototype/conceptual vehicles. In 1952, the first Questionmark conference was held. Out of this conference the M-1, M-4/M-5, and the M-7 could be viable tier 8 mediums.

The M-1 was the most conventional out of these vehicles, being similar to the M48 Patton. It had 102 mm of frontal armor sloped back at 60 degress and had a powerful 500 hp engine(AOS-895, used in the Walker Bulldog). The M-1 was armed with the 90 mm T139 gun(which in all practicality is the 90 mm M41 gun). I would think this would be a little too much out of a premium, the M-2 design armed with the 105 mm T140 gun could make a good tier 9 tank with the M-1 being stock.

The M-4 and the M-5 only differed in powerplant, the M-4 was to use a failed engine(AX-1100) while the M-5 was to use the AOS-895 and would have good mobility(13 hp/t). They had 102 mm of armor sloped at 60 degrees to protect the 4 crew members. The turret for these designs was placed in the rear to minimize overhang of the gun which was the 90 mm T139 gun. The M-5 should still get a good deal of comfort(which all these other tanks have an exceptional amount of comfortable gun depression). I think the M-5 would be a good choice as it unique and it isn’t over/underpowering.

The M-7 is a strange vehicle. It has the same chassis as the M-5 as above but the turret is a pod with an autoloaded 90 mm T139 gun. The weight of the M-7 was only 32 tons and would have 15.6 hp/t. There was to be no dangers of gun fumes or recoil but this arrangement also made vision more difficult for the crew of 3. The M-7′s autoloader would have access to many more rounds and for this reason it would be near impossible to balance as a tier 8 unless it is extremely nerfed, however the M-6(37 tons) was armed with a 105 mm T140 making the M-6/M-7 a tier IX candidate.

This is actually the M-7 with the 105 mm gun.

Now the last vehicle that I would endorse will come from the third Questionmark conference. Here many medium tanks were proposed but most either had composite armor or a smooth bore 90 mm gun so that only leaves one vehicle from the conference available, the TS-3. the TS-3 was a 40 ton vehicle armed crewed by 4 tankers and was armed with the 90 mm T139 . The armor was 96.5 mm thick and sloped back at 60 degrees; overall the TS-3 had less overall armor than the M48. The hp/t ratio would be ~14 hp/t giving the TS-3 good mobility with the 560 hp AOI-1195 engine. The TS-3 could be an effective premium if balanced properly.

There are more concepts from the US which could fill this position but most of the ones not here didn’t receive a proper designation and are pretty boring to be honest. I don’t want to talk about the “90 mm Gun Tank Proposal” or the “Lightweight Medium Tank” and you really don’t need to know, but they do exist.

Sources: Hunnicutt’s Pershing, Patton, and Abrams

24 thoughts on “Possible Alternate Tier 8 American Premium Mediums”

  1. First of all thanks for the interesting article. Personally I’m curious about the future tier VIII medium that WG will introduce because they could all potentially suffer of the Type 59 syndrome, unless they’re “special” (undeperforming with terrible WR) tanks like the Super Pershing. Perhaps the T25 could take this place, even though I would really like to see the T25 as substitute of the T25/2, like you suggested in a previous article.

    About the M47, it wouldn’t be bad to see it in Italian colours, either in a separate tech tree or the European one, Italy was the largest operator after the US phased it out and there were multiple upgrade programs (never implemented because newer tanks were preferred) to make it an excellent tier IX.

    • Thanks and I agree. The T25E1 and the T42 are the most likely candidates for the US. The problem with the T42 is it might be too good(Type 59 syndrome) while the T25E1 might struggle. The T42 is my preferred choice.

      With the 105 mm RO L7, the Italiano M47 would be a great vehicle, it could even be a tier X if given superb soft stats.

      • I have been doing a long thread on Italian tank on the NA forum and the M47 if very important to that tree covering the post-war gap for the Italians. The Germans certainly don’t need it but with it there can be whole new Italian tree and depending on stats either be a good tier 9 or 10.

  3. A very nice write-up. I love how you guys can dig up old photos and sketches of the most bizarre tanks built / planned.

    This made me laugh though:
    ” The T25E1′s turret was 76 inches thick with an 89 mm thick mantlet. ”
    That would mean it had 1930mm of armour protection. :DD

  4. You could also do the T26E5, but that’d be more of the same and it wouldn’t drive like a medium..

  6. Also, with the release of 8.6, we’ll actually have the M47′s hull ingame (BatChat 155-55). Even has it’s proper glacis and everything.

    So maybe we’ll actually see a real M47 soon.

    Though I’d still want the T42. Because it’s adorable.

      • I guess we found a critical point here, if we compare the number for Premium HTs contra MTs:

        HTs:
        T34
        T14
        KV-5
        IS-6
        Churchill 3
        Excelsior
        TOG2*
        Löwe
        FCM 50t

        MT:
        RAM2
        T26E4
        Matilda Black Prince
        T-25
        Pz.Kpfw. IV Schmalturm
        Panther/M10
        Matilda IV
        (Type 59)

        There are more HT than MT and out of the MTs the only that drives like a Medium is RAM2, T-25, Pz.Kpfw. IV Schmalturm, Panther/M10 and the famous Type 59.

        So if you wanted a high-tier medium tank it was only the Type 59 that could hold that place, so I think that WG needs to release at least 2-3 premium MTs to avoid another “Type-59-in-every-game-problem” and who knows, maybe the Type could be re-introduced if the players gets to choose from more than fast-agile-proper-medium (Type 59) or sluggish-armoured-HT-in-desquise (T26E5).

        I haven´t had a single premium-tank yet since I missed the Type-sales and want a proper medium due to my love towards the T-44 and Centurions. So I would like to se at least one proper medium for every nation, like Type 59, T42, Cruiser A30 Avenger, etc.

        • Don’t oversee the point, that from your list 2 HT’s drive like MT’s (FCM+Excelsior). So these 2 vs. 2 MT’s that drive like HT’s (T26E4+Matilda to make your statement more clear).
          As of now we have 8 MT’s in store (not counting the type 59) vs. 9 HT’s which is fairly balanced. The only nation that lacks a tank for crew training is France, which hasn’t got a medium. And well okay, the Chinese don’t have any buyable premium tanks at all, but they are yet to come (112 in 8.7?).
          Anyway, in my opinion we need a french MT or a chinese MT of any Tier, before we get another US MT.

          • Yikes, I totally forgot, that the KV5 isn’t buyable anymore, so it’s 8 HT’s vs. 8 MT’s

  10. Would those be medium or light tanks , the way you described the T42 and the M47 makes me think of ones ?

    • T42 and M47 were most certainly medium tanks. T42 weighed 37.25 tons, M47 damn near 50 tons.

      Much of T42′s technology was carried over to the M41, but T42 itself was definitely a medium tank.

    • T23 will never come back as a tier 8 premium. All premium tanks are historically outfit. If T23 comes back, it’ll come back with the 76mm M1A1/M1A2 and with a sub-500 horsepower engine.

      It’d be a good tier 6 premium, but not a tier 8. Not by any means.

  12. Nice article but I really do not want to see an all around medium flooding the tier 8 battlefields.
    I could only see the t25 prototype being an option, but it being so weak it would be better off just being a tier 7 premium.