Chinese TD line – how it might look?

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Source:
Found by Priory_of_Sion (thanks a lot, mate) and to TK3600 who apparently found it first and made a post on US forums about it

http://wot.duowan.com/1302/225307639381.html

Hello everyone,

the Chinese vehicles are notoriously hard to find any info on. Basically, all the scraps and pieces we know about them come either from vehicles, that exist physically in some museum, or from Wargaming itself.

Today, however, we are going to have a look at a line, proposed by a Chinese player. Now, I am not going to tell you the line will look EXACTLY like this, or that all of these vehicles were real projects and not… you know, fakes (some pictures are obvious photoshops, but that hardly matters, as the project can be real, the picture might only be “artist’s impression”).

Tier 2,3 – Stuart and (Brencarrier?) chassis with 57mm ZIS-3 (SerB posted a picture of such a thing long time ago – so this one is legit, can’t find it for some reason)

Tier 4 – Buffalo amphib with a 57/76mm gun?

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Tier 5- Type 63 APC with a 85mm gun, converted into a tank destroyer. This vehicle is also amphibious.

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Tier 6 – BTR-50 with a 85mm/100mm gun, also amphibious

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Tier 7 – SU-100-1 with a 100mm gun, built on WZ-120 chassis

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Tier 8 – SU-122-1, apparently with a 122mm gun, built on “113″ chassis? (Looks like WZ-111 to me)

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Tier 9 – 130-59, someting like SU-122-54, but on Type 59 chassis with a 130mm gun

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Tier 10 – WZ type chassis (possibly WZ5A type chassis?)

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And a bunch of Chinese desings, without details:

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Bonus: this was posted by SerB as a possible Chinese destroyer

2175_original

80 thoughts on “Chinese TD line – how it might look?”

  3. Please take this with a grain of salt as we are unsure about the credibility of the source. It seems to be legit, but with no official WG statement we can’t be sure.

    • So am I, but it’s a nice illustration. As for the high tiers, I doubt whoever made it is far off, it was mentioned somewhere that it’ll be TD’s based on Type 59 and WZ-111.

      • One of those “unknowns” (Top right) looks a hell of allot like an ZSU-57-2 SPAAG.

        • I was thinking the same thing, the ZSU had only 4 roadwheels but they may have taken a straight type 59 chassis for use with an SPG due to the weight of the gun and recoil…

  4. Well, its certainly very believable. It is very strange though, that the Type-100 drawing that we’ve had for a while now apparently is NOT one of the vehicles in the TD line. Maybe it will be a premium?

  5. So Chinese TD’s are one one Tier higher compared to their Russian counterparts…
    Improved RoF and moblity?

    • What made you conclude they are one Tier higher, Sherlock? They look more or less the same size per tier as the USSR ones, and if anything the proposed guns are smaller.

      • Su-100-1 is on tier 7, Su-100 on tier 6.
        Type 63 has a 85mm gun on tier 5, russians get that on tier 4.
        And the Su-122-1 has a 122mm gun on tier 8, russian Su-100 has one on tier 6.

        • Oh noes, E-50M has 105mm gun on tier 10 but M4 Sherman has 105mm gun on tier 5. Impossibru!

          Sarcasm aside, it’s impossible to judge tank’s performance only by it’s gun size. Nor by tank’s size for that matter.

          • That’s why I was curious where the Chinese TD’s will excel in, those calibers aren’t really popular for TD’s in those tiers.

            Look at the Russand 2nd TD line..

      • Yes, because they have the same size as as the Russians means that they will perform the same. And you call me Sherlock?

        • This is how Chinese TD will perform: Inferior chasis until end tiers. Insane DPM, pen, great speed. Horrible soft stat, mediocore alpha. Still a very decent line. As for how Chinese TD do well with bad chasis, they will get better guns. Imagine how superior the Chinese SU100 is to soviet one if it gets the top 100mm from WZ-120. Beats the D-10t all the way.

  7. And more russian Copy-Pasta. All of them just look like their russian counterparts. Boring.

    Another chinese branch i will not grind.

    • same here
      I stopped at the Chi-ha because I want a Jap tank in my collection
      That’s all
      I don’t want another fking copy-paste tanks

      • I dont like that Chinese tanks dont even differ with attached equipment like fuel cans or cupola machine gun. Cupola MG is on almost every tank so are rear fuel cans, they could make them differ by these little details at least.

    • WG must be crazy when they add those copy-paste tanks
      They promised 2nd line german TD since 7.2 but we don’t see any shit

          • Armor is better? Guns? Maybe mobility. But to me it feels like armor and guns are worse especially accurancy- and pen-wise

            Most important they dont look unique in any way to me

            I dont prevent you from playing them if you have fun with it but i miss the lack of diversity

    • Your whining is boring too, so please keep it for yourself. Or go find a whiner forum and QQ there…

    • C/P tanks?

      There is nothing like tiers 2-6

      tier 7 is on prototype type chasis ()
      tier 8 is like isu, but will have 122mm gun,
      tier 9 is the only one that is really similar to su-122-54
      tier 10 is quite unique

      so yeah, not so many copy paste tanks now is there….

      • Well, if the chinese T2 is Universal Carrier (though TK said so, the chassis seems different to me -especially front), then we have, though changein the guns and maybe the slightly different chasis are sufficient changes.

        Oh, and isn’t the US T2 TD T82 built on M3? :P

        Still, they are far from simple copy-paste tanks and the line does contain original pieces, I don’t see any reason to whine and bitch.

        • TBH most of them look like their russian counterparts only on chinese chassis’. But those are almost the same as the russian ones again. Also they play the same and one tree is enough for me.

          This is no whining but i dont see anything special in the entire tree.

  8. I think WG could use at least some of these vehicles, would love to drive the Buffalo :)

    The tier 10 also looks good. The second looks a bit better though.

    As for the bunch of chinese designs pic, in the upper line, the vehicle on the right side, looks similar to one of USSR mobile AA platforms… Can’t remember the name atm, but I remember that it was armed with a twin 57mm and was first seen in public in 50. I think… Uh, not sure, but the name could be ZSU 57-2… Also, the improvised design in the second line (right side) looks like just a bit different version of Type 63 APC with 85mm gun.

    • the picture “And a bunch of Chinese desings, without details” is a illustration from (,a Chinese 1970s military book),only the 4th one is a Chinese design,the left ones are just some show of foreign self-propelled guns(like ZSU57).This picture didn’t mean to design tanks,it’s just a show of typical cases of SPG.

    • Hello,I’m SMSBC,one of the original author of that Chinese TD Line,forgive me with my poor English.
      I saw your discussion about it,and I would like to say sth:
      1,your understanding about Tier2 and Tier3 TD is correct.The Tier II TD is indeed Brencarrier
      The Tier III is M5 Stuart TD which Q&A mentioned
      2,the picture “And a bunch of Chinese desings, without details” is a illustration from (,a Chinese 1970s military book),only the 4th one is a Chinese design,the left ones are just some show of foreign self-propelled guns(like ZSU57).This picture didn’t mean to design tanks,it’s just a show of typical cases of SPG.
      3,could you send me the link of “post on US forums about it” please?I would like to see it.

  11. Thanks for add me up, but you missed a few detail. I don’t mind if you edit or copy my version, as long as you make a link of mine. I will list a few possible error.

    • According to my manual translation, I confirm the author meant Bren Carrier. Now we got 2 universal carrier TD :D. The SU100 one could actually be based on soviet SU100, since soviet sold cjinese some post war. The tier 9 TD have another designe , which have 122mm gun. Much like the tier9 heavy.

      • The tier 8 one looks almost identicle to your bonus, could be the same. The second last picture has 4 SPGs, the fourth one is definately Bren Carrier based, with track gaurd. I believe that is the tier2 TD.

        • I will look for more chinese rumor in the future, and can contact you if needed. I would translate them myself, saving the derpness of google translate.

  12. I know people crap on the Chinese tanks for being… not Chinese, but once they reach high tiers, they do have their own uniqueness, and for that, I enjoy them very much. I look forward to more vehicles for this tree.

    • Never mind the whiners, the truth is that they never actually went beyond tier V.

  14. These TDs not listed in even Chinese wikipedeia and Baidu Baike.

    Chinese communists lacks patriotic education. lol

    • Merh…U never know Chinese armor until they show them to the world. Those kind of things will never go on wiki or sth like wiki since it’s their common style to keep their progress as a secret

  17. Ah, nice, now post-war vehicles like the BTR-50 made it into tier 6? It´s starting to get ridicoulus how many post-war tanks and prototypes there are in this game at points, where it doesnt make the least sense in terms of timeline.

    • Which part of “a line, proposed by a Chinese player” did you fall to understand? It’s a fanmade tech tree, like the proposed Italian or Czech ones that you can find around the net, it’s not official.

    • How about “timeline accuracy” of Hetzer being available earlier than StuG III?

      I guess everything that fits basic principles (no smoothbore, no fancy layered armor, star wars electronics and point&click guided missiles) are good enough to be implemented.

    • Date of service entry has never really factored in when determining vehicle tier. Otherwise the Hetzer would be a Tier 7 vehicle.

      Don’t see a problem with the BTR-50, it is a very thinly armored APC.

  18. Amphibious tanks which can’t float? That’ll go down a sh*tstorm in the forums.

  19. Kinda interesting… maybe it’ll be the first line to offer amphibious tanks that will be able to traverse water (slowly, mind you) without sinking.

  20. What SerB posted kinda looks like the 122-1, while the two arty on the left look like an SU-100 and M53/M55

  22. I, for one, am actually interested in Chinese tanks, and I hope they will have a twist to them.
    I hope they’ll be amphibious.

  23. For tier 5 it says:
    “5级TD 暂时叫做63-85吧，敞篷85炮.63式装甲车的底盘，，而且，而且，63式装甲车也是有两栖能力的…”
    tier 5 TD temporarily called the 63-85, open top 85mm gun on a Type 63 APC chassis, which is amphibious

    For tier 6 it says:
    “6级TDBTR50-85 100 …似乎会有100炮.而且.大家都知道…这玩意的原始底盘…也能划水”
    tier 6 BTR50-85 100 might have 100mm gun with an amphibious chassis

    For tier 7 it says:
    “7级TDSU100-1 大概会有WZ120的那门215的100炮以及能换一些59的设备太好了，总算来个没有两栖能力的底盘了”
    Tier 7 SU-1001 might have the 100mm gun on the WZ-120 with 215mm penetration along with some Type 59 equipment. It will lose amphibious capabilities from the previous tiers.

    For the tier 8, it says
    “8级TD SU122-1 装113和WZ120那门122炮.情况类似SU100-1吧 ，好棒好棒的，这车也不能两栖”
    which means tier 8 SU-122-1 carries the 122mm carried by the WZ-113 and WZ-120, with similarities to the SU-100-1.

    For tier 9 it says:
    “9级TD. 130-59类似12254的东西，不过很多设计不一样，例如负重轮和战斗室，能上122和130炮….”
    tier 9 TD. 130-59 similar to the SU-122-54 with similar designs. Can mount 122mm or 130mm. Basically like the test server SU-122-54

    For tier 10 it says:
    “10级TDWZ…WZ底盘的TD，大概类似扣了盖子的263或者130 122版本的268…另外，，，这车没准是WZ5A的底盘？”
    tier 10 TD has a WZ chassis, similar to a closed top Obj.263 or a 130 or 122 mounted 268. It might be a WZ-5A chassis

    This post is to make some clarifications from the original post.

  24. Wikipedia note on the Buffalo conversion:

    LVT(A)-4 (1944)
    The 37mm gun of the LVT(A)-1 was inadequate for fire support version so the turret of the 75 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage M8 – armed with a 75 mm howitzer – was used to produce the LVT (A)-4. In some cases the 75mm was replaced with the Canadian Ronson flamethrower. A single .50 cal machine gun was installed on the ring mount above the turret rear. In the late production vehicles the heavy machine gun was replaced with two M1919A4 .30 MGs on pintle mounts and one more in the bow mount. 1,890 units produced. The Chinese PLA captured several from Nationalist forces during the Civil War and placed them in service, eventually modifying some with the 37 mm M6 tank gun (?) in place of the 75 mm howitzer and others with the ZiS-2 57 mm anti-tank gun, complete with shield, the conversion necessitating the removal of the original mantlet as well.

    So four gun choices: M3 turret, M8 turret (75mm), M8 turret (37mm?), 57mm (limited traverse)

    • 5 guns, the British fitted a 20mm Polsten cannon to some of their Buffaloes.

  25. One of those looks like the M53/M55 SPG! i don’t think that will be a TD for china haha

    • The label written in Chinese under the four vehicles in the last pic means “Some Self-Propelled Guns”. So it is highly possible that the 1st vehicle was intended as an arty like what SU-152 and ISU-152 did.

      • nihao？ And the last but one pic of the Q&A is a sketch from “Tank Design”–A book of Chinese war industry published on 1970s. the last vehicle of the sketch is indeed designed by Chinese.

  28. Pingback: Possible Chinese SPG line | For The Record

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