Source: Daigensui posts (US forums)
Hello everyone,
a lot of people ask themselves, is the Lorraine 40t depression really historical? Ingame -6 depression seems a bit low. After all, let’s look at the turret picture:
and here a historical picture:
Lots of space for the gun to depress to, no? I mean – usually it’s the breech that blocks the depression, but that’s not really an issue in the oscillating turret solution – if the gun was not supposed to go any lower, why the clear cut under it in the turret sleeve?
Well, it turns out, the depression is a bit higher. Here are the screenshots (posted by Daigensui on US forums) of the original 1952 French ministry of defense Lorraine description.
It’s actually pretty interesting overall (for example, originally the vehicle was supposed to have a crew of four, with the loader also in the turret and only semi-automatic loader mechanism available), but if you check page 2, it’s clearly written there:
Pointage on site: +15 -8
So, if I understand this correctly, the depression was to be -8, not -6. Let’s hope the game designers fix that, eventually.
This is something that is known for a long time. Its a crappy tank and (at least) historical depression could’ve given it a bit of an edge in a good players hand.
It is very good tank.
it was when it still was Tier8. But at Tier9 with the same gun, same size and a lack of mobility it just is no match for other Tier9 Tanks. Being big and having no armor is a bad combination, and the tank just isnt fast enough to compensate that.
Bought my Lorraine only after it was mover to tier 9. I think it is still a pretty decent tank now. Not saying that it is one of the strongest tier 9 meds around, but with the right play style (which is a MUST or you die in 1 min), it can be a great support tank and late-battle-stahe beast…
If a player is good any tank he drives is good, but gamebalance is a different subject.
Fair example: Same player playes both T54E1 and Lorr40T. In both he has good results, but he just has much better results in T54E1 altough his results in Lorr40t are not bad.
The problem with this tank that you have to switch gameplay completely going from AMX-13-90 to Lorrain. AMX-13 is scout and close combat fighter, Lorrain is more TD than tank. No armor isn’t big fail for TD, but speed si very useful for changing positions and keep yourselffar from brawl.
/Serb style on
Tank is bad in close combat? Then don’t go in close combat.
/Serb style off
tbh i’m pretty positive that it’s bad all-round, i played when i was still T8 and i completed 150 bouts in my BC way before the T10 meds came around, so i’m not really sure what’s happening now, but i’d take a guess and say the lorr is the worst med around – not only is it the biggest (kinda downside-ish for a med) and worst-armored (it can’t sidescrape any enemy it comes across) but the gun is kinda mediocre (china, britain and germany handwave the 100mm) so is the aim-time (a pretty sensitive part of a med) and accuracy (still extremely important for a med)
and with that – the only upper-hand you get is 1800dmg in a cassette (which is GOOD, hands down) but it really doesn’t compensate for all the stuff – the lorr can’t tank any enemy on any range
“Being big and having no armor is a bad combination, and the tank just isnt fast enough to compensate that.”
The British Centurions have the same flaw, and their high-tier heavies kind of have it with their inability to angle due to their side armour being easily overmatched.
British tanks have accurate guns with good aiming times – they can afford to chill farther in the back where their big sillhouettes won’t give them that much trouble. On the other hand, the lorraine aims very slowly (a parameter placed there to balance autoloader sniping) and isn’t very accurate in the first place.
Not to mention the fact that a static lorraine is a piece of cake for arty.
When it came out it was historical. Then the patch after the french tanks came out which nerfed the all french tanks to shit gun depression and elevation.
how terrible.. :)
historical accuracy is just a term WG uses instead of bs, the truth is “game balance” will be a bigger priority than historical accuracy
which is fine!! but whats full of shit is when it nerfs something bcuz and solely bcuz of “historical accuracy” thats just bs.
Could be, but WG only uses historically correctness if it is not hurting the gamebalance. Not saying this game is totally balanced but thats their standpoint.
it could really use the gun-depression… at least the fat lorry can use it to hide it’s hideously large body
plus 2 degree to depression won’t help that tank, very bad and situational tank and one of the worst tanks i had to grind so i could own one of the most interesting and exciting tier 10 tanks-bat ofc. I was literally sick of anything ammoracking me and anything penetrating me. (yes i know it’s a med and that meds have no armor but lorraine has negative armor it ATTRACTS shots)
The worst T9 med could use some buff.
It is marked as med, but you shouldn’t play it as med. It is TD by its playstyle.
so is say the LeoA which has abyssmally poor dps and depression with incredible accuracy and mobility….which doesn’t stop it from being compared the GOOD meds on that tier (which lorr isn’t)
0.36 accuracy isn’t incredible… The British Centurion Mk. 7/1 gets 0.32 accuracy and 2.3s aimtime (vs. 2.9s) in the same tier as the Leopard PT A with the same gun. Then again it is slow (but agile), limited to 40km/h, huge, and the only armour on it that actually works better than what the Leopard has is what is on the front of the turret. It’s premium ammo, HESH, is also terrible.
I started grinding the Lorraine 3 months ago but stopped after 2 weeks.
I have the gun and the tracks researched but I refuse to play such a crappy tank in its current form.
I really hope they buff the depression/aiming time and other values.
Thanks for posting!
The Lorry is a travesty.
It belongs as a bridge between the AMX 50 100 (which it is a development of) and the medium line. Not some oddity that simply can’t be balanced correctly.
Paper thin is fine, as long as firepower and small size comes with it, but the French 100mm is horrendous, and I won’t even mention the size of the tank itself.
Well…it was proposed many times to just add amx 13 105 instead of lorri, and move lorri to a breach between amx 50 100 to batchat(or just remove it)….no-one from wg wanted that.
Don’t know why…amx 13 105 would be much better play-style wise than lorri(you won’t need to change the play style from amx 13 90 in order to play this one).
They stated severely times, that they dont want transmitions between techtrees in these high tier areas. Thats the reason we don’t see those tier 8 [heavy] -> tier 9 [med] switches. Even the transition to ferdinand is considered as a high tier area from WG and as a bad solution
It should be a tier8, branching off from the AMX 50 100 to the Lorry arty then. No one plays arty any more anyways, so no harm done, and you get logical branch that’s not horrifyingly stupid.
And replace it with the AMX-13 105, it’s a short barreled version of the French equivalent of the L7, so it’s not exactly as if it were game breakingly new.
Oh, but WG doesn’t want tierX light tanks, so I guess we have to wait a year or so until they decide that actually, they want that and introduce them.
They said AMX-13-105 is too modern (it has too modern sights and other things i can’t remember) and that’s why they won’t implement it.
After all, it is a model from the 80s
Yeah…as I expected…someone came up stating that wg…blablabla…
I know, I’ve red the answer on that question and that’s why I said, move it between them or “remove it”.
Gun depression is one of the ways WG use to balance. One of the arty nurfs before 8.6 was to reduce or eliminate depression on a number of artys meaning that they little or no chance of defending themselves on a direct fire basis. Those that followed the announcements at least had a chance to adjust their game play but since 95% of players don’t, they wondered why all of a sudden they were getting so comprehensly fucked every time they had to go one on one.
So when people moan about non historical gun depression when it falls a bit short of the historical figure I have little sympathy untill the same people start complaining that their gun depression should be decreased to the historical figure because WG gave the tank too much.
Every bugger plays the historical card when it suits them,
+1
When it was tier8, it was OP as hell. Then they mega nerfed it. It was fine. Then they moved it to tier9 without any compensation other than hitpoint. It was ruined. It would be a pretty solid tier9 with the nerf rolled back, as well as the extra depression. After all, the only reason it was OP was the burst damage can insta kill tiers lower than it. It cannot do the insta kill near as often with the tier noved up, therefore it needs those soft stat back to be average.
You got it a bit wrong. It was hell OP when it was first introduced to tier 8 (same gun as batchat, same shot reload, same clip reload). then they mega nerfed it and it was crap.
then they moved it to tier 9 and made the gun the same as it had when it was first introduced (same tier 9 batchat had). So its still crap.
As if it really matters when you have a paper turret. I was thinking the same when i bought Leo 1. Hey nice gun depression! cool mobility! awesome! except no turret armor…
And the moment i peek out even my turret ears, it’s game over. Came to conclusion that a strong turret is probably the most important part of a tank in WoT. Nothing more cool like seeing T57 heat shells bouncing of T62A turret repeatedly. Sold the Leo 1 yesterday btw and put the crew in a tank that is worthy of them. VK3601.
Invisibility & Mobility compensate weak armor. And Leo I is best tier 10 for randoms for sure.
Of course, if you have 4 perks crew. ;)
The Leo 1 is the most “fun” to play T10 tank by a country mile. But it’s not the best for pubs, and it’s rarely used in CWs. You know how you see tons of a certain tank? That’s because they’re generally “good” or even known to be “OP”. You don’t see platoons of Leo 1s for a reason.
Leo I is lonely ranger, you can play it alone without close support and team doesn’t need a lot of Leopards. In opposite T-62A does need a team and team can benefit from pack of them.
And Leo I is used for CW actively as passive scout. No other tank can do it better than Leo I.
Leo is your best passive scout? Allow me to introduce you to the invisibatchat.
Now this is a great article. GJ SS.
AMX-50 120 also looks like it has room for some more elevation and depression. Also its top engine (Saurer) should be diesel. Seems like historical accuracy is used only when it suits WG.
Every AMX 50 tanks have more room for depression…they were nerfed after they were released because of massive community whines.
- Seems like historical accuracy is used only when it suits WG.
We already knew that ;)
Well if this game would be historically accurate, then autoloader tanks should not move while reloading, eg each move would reset entire process since in real life, crew was loaging drum outside of tank (at least french crews but americans were probably simmilar here).
I imagine the commander running after my bchat to introduce it’s damn magazine inside the turret.
:trollface:
It wasn’t like that, the shells were reloaded one by one in a magazine, so you could reload one shell when having 5/6 shells in a mag.
Don’t wish for realism, since you might just get it.
I wouldn’t be against it – similar to reloading shotgun in other FPS.
Want realism? Join the Army
Only the AMX-13 was reloaded from the outside, its bigger cousins don’t even have the necessary access hatches over the barillets.
Dafuq? Standard truck wheels and truck tyres? It looks funny and it screams “prototype” indeed…
Please add them to the game – like 10hp track module, lol.
Lorraine 40t depression not historical? A: Don’t play Lorraine 40t.
how terrible..
eh? :P
Great article with clearly referenced primary sources. Lets have this for all articles please
from the docs, the lorry can pivot turn too
IIRC. When the Lorraine was a tier 8 tank, the gun depression was nerfed from -8, to -7 and once again to -6 degree’s allong with the many futile attempts to balance the ridiculously overpowered tank to be balanced as a tier 8.
Allot of how they nerfed the tank when it was moved to the tier 9 slot never changed or revised.
Are we sure that when they switched from semiautomatic loading to automatic one they didn’t change anything in the turret which could have compromised that -8 depression?
Don’t see what would, the whole loading mechanism is contained in the turret bustle.
Even with -10 it will be shit tank
it used to have way more depression when it came out on the test server, until they eventually nerfed it