Buff My Tank: Jagdpanzer IV

Posted on by

Recently I purchased Panzer Tracts 9-2 about the Jagdpanzer IV. I actually ordered 9-3 about the Jagdpanther, but any Panzer Tracts is a good read. I especially enjoyed the part naming controversy that might have screwed over the Jagdpanzer IV. Anyway, I noticed some discrepancies between the Jagdpanzer IV’s real life stats compared to the WoT version, nothing major but would be worth implementing.

The gun depression in WoT for the Jagdpanzer is at -5 degrees for all gun choices. In real life the L/48 armed Jagdpanzer IV was capable of -8 degrees of depression. The L/70 version was also capable of -6 degrees. The horizontal traverse is also nerfed compared to real life. In WoT the Jagdpanzer IV can traverse its gun 10 degrees in either direction. This should be improved to 12 degrees in either direction. These are not huge game-altering changes, but they are buffs none-the-less.

The unhistorical 8.8 cm PaK 36 L/56 mounted on the Jagdpanzer may need the -5 depression & 10 degree horizontal movement, but I am not sure as that is theoretical. Same goes for the 10.5 cm L/28 gun.

The top speed of the Jagdpanzer IV could also be improved to 40 km/h which was only achieved by the early models with the L/48 gun. Other early Jagdpanzer IV models(first 300) also had a 60 mm glacis plate, instead of 80 mm, which might also account for this speed.

A hypothetical buff to a Jagdpanzer IV with hull upgrades could be armed with an 8.8 cm L/71 gun. Spielberger and Jentz both have versions of an 8.8 cm L/71 armed Jagdpanzer which could be introduced with hull upgrades. Speilberger’s version, which is found in his Panzer IV & Variants, featured a Jagdpanther mit 12.8 cm(aka Jagdpanther II) superstructure. The version found in Panzer Tracts 20-1 has a more conventional look to it. Anyone of these two versions are plausible with upcoming hull upgrades.

This would have -8 deg. of depression if you can’t see the tiny text.

Part of Krupp's Nov. 1944 Umbewaffnung der Panzer program

Part of Krupp’s Nov. 1944 Umbewaffnung der Panzer program

Sources: See books mentioned in the article.

 

48 thoughts on “Buff My Tank: Jagdpanzer IV”

  2. Anyway, going on topic. This is very interesting, is it possible that you could do something on French auto loaders or link me to any previous articles on them?

  4. The conventional “Umbewaffnung” one, might indeed make a good hull replacement, but the rear gunned one is a better T7 candidate.
    Personally, I’d like to see it as T8 parallel to JgPanther II, with 128mm, with the Umbewaffnung at T7.

  5. 8L71 on tier 6 wont happen with the current TD line as the long 88 is the gun on the new tier 6TD (most likely Sturer Emil) as this lines “selling point” is the firepower so giving the current line the same gun would render the new on useless.

    Unless of course they will give Sturer Emil the 105L52 wich would be amazing but i hardly doubt that

    • Tier 6 is the Nashorn, and is allegedly also getting the 105mm L/52

      Sturer Emil is the tier 7

    • You’re thinking of the Nashorn. The Sturer Emil(which was suppose to be tier 7) was armed with a 12.8 cm gun.

      Knowing the mobility would be heavily effected(negatively) by a hull change to either version of the Jagdpanzer IV mit. 8.8 cm L/71, I see it reasonably balanced with the Churchill GC and the ARL V39(which I hear are pretty bad) overall. The Nashorn would still be a far more effective 8.8 cm L/71 armed vehicle because of agility & other “soft” stats.

      • Yeah the Nashorn is basically a Hummel and Hummel Arty had awesome speed and mobility much similar like StuGIII what is good for hit and run actions.

      • ARL V39 bad ? You had bad luck then, because only noobs say it’s bad. It’s not a TD for all situations but it has excellent gun selection and good speed along with okay engine power. Other stats are indeed bad and the fact that you need enhanced suspension equipment or free xp to get upgraded suspension module in order to mount any usable gun is a unique detriment but that’s the only TD to get the gun with 200mm pene and its much better than ARL 45 variant in soft stats. The schneider gun is strong in DPS and DPM along with reliable penetration while DCA 30 has the highest DPM and best handling of the three but has weak penetration.

        TL;DR you get small potato with excellent guns and rewarding gameplay but if you’re not careful, you’re turned in to french fries like noob in no time.

        Also:

        INB4 NASHORN IS SHIET WHINE

  6. Honestly, my first reaction was meh. Gun depression isn’t exactly the main problem with this tank, as anyone who has played it can tell you.

    Then again, given WG’s recent trend, this could be part of an overall package of “historicalization” buffs. With an L/70 RoF buff to match the E-25, plus a dispersion buff, this stealthy little bugger might actually be competitive with the Hellcat. After all, the recent Tiger (H) changes have set a precedent and shown that massive RoF buffs are no longer out of the question.

    • Funny, because my experience is that the main problem of the Jagdpanz IV is the gun depression. Often you have to show you whole hull to be able to shoot at enemy, because of the lack of depression. Next is reverse speed.
      But then again I don’t complain about -3 degrees of Chinese WZ-120 and 121, so go figure.

      • Ok, to each his own. I honestly though the problem was the choice between low damage/DPM and low penetration – either you use a weapon that penetrates and does pathetic damage for a TD, or you use a weapon that doesn’t even penetrate without spamming premium ammunition.

  8. Well, as I know I think the L/70 wasn’t a good choice, becouse the TD became “nose heavy”, and harder to manouver, so puting on the 88 milimeter cannon wouldn’t be so healthy I think. As the Hetzer was upgunned, it was a very good low profile TD, but the manouverbility suffered with the upgunning. Nice article btw, keep up the good work.

  9. The L/71 would not be a good gun option for the JPIV.

    You’d end up with an ARL-V39 [avec DCA45] or a Churchill GC kind of disaster.

    The Nashorn is probably going to be the only tier 6 TD that can pull off having a very high-penning gun and not suffer from hideously bad gun handling traits.

    Just give the JPIV the Konisch and be done with it.

  10. Playing the JPIV atm, and the tank is definitely a bit weak for its tier. Compared to some of the most powerful tanks in t6 it plain out sucks. (KV1S, Hellcat, Cromwell, T-34-85 are not even in the same league…) The gun mobility (sides AND up/down) is bad; hull traverse, tank speed, engine power, damage/rld time are all mediocre; armor-nonexistent; viewrange sucks. The only thing that supposedly works to its advantage is the camovalue – if you keep at 400+ meters (which in most cases means that some1 else will be spotting for you) most times you will not be spotted. A good camo-value would imply that you can operate (and shoot) even closer than this (maybe 350?), but I find that this is very risky, because all it takes is one enemy camper with 400 v-range and binocs – and you’re dead….

  11. What it needs is special ammo for the short 88 with a bit more penetration. Most people play it like a larger, slower StuG a tier higher (meaning with the 75/L70). What a tragic waste of a tank. I’ve been advocating for years that historical late war AP ammo for the 88/L56 had a higher penetration rating and that WG need to introduce it as a “special” ammo for the tanks that really suffer with it. Meaning the JPIV and the 3002D.

      • I think a better gold round for the L/56 is needed. It would be the least bitter pill for WG to swallow, and players get something more than 170mm pen.

        PS: Trading M3 Light codes for M22 Locust codes.

  12. Historical reports indicate the Jagdpz IV was nose heavy, and tended to wear out the front bogies.. Consequently, the Germans changed to steel-rimmed wheels up front, but the nose heaviness also caused difficulty steering. A further disadvantage was that slewing movements to aim the gun could result in final drive gears being stripped, rendering the vehicle inoperable. This was caused by a shortage of the proper materials with which to manufacture heat-treated gears; these minerals (such as chromium, vanadium, etc.) were allocated to armor and projectiles. Final-drive gear failure plagued many late-war German armored vehicles.

    • The front-heaviness problems were present already in the upgunned basic Pz IVs, so it’s hardly surprising the derived Jadgpanzer which carried an even heavier gun further forward had persistent issues.

      • Hence the idea to mount the gun in the rear of the vehicle, which was considered but never actually done on this vehicle (though surprisingly it was sort-of done on the Dicker Max, which was derived from the Panzer IV chassis).

  13. The one thing that REALLY annoyed me about the Jagdpanzer IV is that…well…you have to either upgrade the suspension or buy enhanced suspension for 300,000 credits to be able to mount anything other than the stock equipment. There’s also the fact that in terms of armament, it’s no better than a medium tank (a ROF buff would be nice, but as it is now the DPM is too low).

    That being said, since the L71 had a different shape for the hull (due to the fighting compartment being in the rear), it either a) won’t be implemented (due to WG’s selectiveness regarding historical accuracy), or b) will be turned into a premium vehicle a tier up (Jagdpanzer IV mit 88 mm KwK 42 L/71), at which point it’ll actually be pretty decent, with a gun equivalent to the top guns on both of the Tigers, giving a gun with decent accuracy, penetration and alpha.

    True, it still wouldn’t be as good as the SU-122-44 (I have that one, and even I think it’s OP, or maybe I’m just that good to routinely kill tier IX tanks despite being outnumbered), but it’ll be decent, and a cheaper alternative to the JT88 but with the same gun.

    Actually…that means it probably wouldn’t be implemented as a premium vehicle either, since it would essentially be a cheaper JT 88 with the exact same gun, but a tier lower and with worse armor, since WG would want you to buy the JT88 instead (not a bad investment, since surprisingly the JT88 gets the second-highest credit earnings, statistically speaking, on the entire NA server, second only to the Type 59, most likely because the ammunition is relatively cheap and the high ROF gives it a high DPM- it just has a learning curve to get used to)

    • DPM is too low? It has the best DPM of any Tier 6 Tank Destroyer already! Slightly ahead of the AT8 with the 75/L70 and the 88/L56 is in a class of its own (over 2400 DPM – at Tier 6!).

      It’s to make up for the fact that it has the worst pentration of the lot, I grant you. But you can’t tell us it needs a DPM buff when it’s *DOUBLE* that of an M36.

  14. The only real knock against the Jagdpanzer IV in its current WoT configuration is the lack of a gun that can punish tier 7 heavies. Other than that, its very mobile, well camouflaged, sees reasonably well and is, in general, a great TD if you know how to fight from distance.
    HOWEVER, the 88L71 could cure the lack of response to tier 7 heavies… in which case, I would buy two Jagdpanzers. Actually, I lied. I’d buy three. With the accuracy and power of that gun, no tank faced by the Jagdpanzer is safe. So, SerB, please???
    (even though anticipating “how terrible”) :P