Salfetkoruzhiye: GABTU’s Lost SPG

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Salfetkoruzhie is a portmanteau of Russian words “salfetka” (napkin) and “oruzhiye” (weapon), the equivalent of German “napkinwaffe”.  

If you read a list of GABTU’s desires in 1940, you will encounter a mention of a 180 mm SPG on the SMK chassis. The tank proposal, and indeed, any 180 mm SPG was scratched out. Such a huge gun would be entirely impractical.

However, this is World of Tanks! Phrases like “impractical”, “overcomplicated”, “it would never happen”, and “oh god what are you doing” have no meaning here! Let’s grab a napkin and begin designing!

First, the most important part of the tank: the gun. In 1940, the only such gun in production was the B-1-P naval gun. The gun fired a 97.5 kg shell at 920 meters per second. Literature remains silent on its penetration abilities, but we can use math! Using deMarre’s equation, and the BL-10 as reference (that’s the closest weapon I have data for), I get a respectable 356 mm of penetration. Take that, gold ammo, we’re shooting through 2 Tigers back to back with credits now! The massive gun achieved a rate of fire of 6 round per minute on a ship, but in game, it would probably have to decrease to a more reasonable 2. As for alpha, a cool 1100 ought to do it, the same as the Object 261′s 180 mm gun. The gun weighs 19.6 tons, which would probably make it the heaviest gun in the game.

Now, for the hull. The SMK had KV-like armouring: 75 mm all around. The front turret weighs 3 tons, the big one (assuming it weighs as much as a KV turret) weighs 7. That’s 10 tons saved when removing the turrets, which is just half of the gun’s weight. The resulting tank would still be pretty heavy, even if all the casemate armour is achieved through removing hull armour. The SMK’s already mediocre maximum speed of 35 kph would be even lower. Such poor armour would make it very similar to the SU-100-Y: huge gun, terrible everything else. At, say, tier 8, the tank would be perfect. Its gun would be menacing, but its armour would be thin enough to be penetrated by any tank it will see.

su-smk-180

A 180 mm gun on a SMK chassis in a fully armoured casemate would look something like this.

 

43 thoughts on “Salfetkoruzhiye: GABTU’s Lost SPG”

  1. But are you thinking TD or actual spg? Because many tanks used as spg’s are td’s in game. And premium tank?

    • Soviet turretless tanks tended to be capable of both direct or indirect fire (there was no distinction between TD and SPG like there is in the game). This thing could do either, really, but it would just be an Object 261 clone if it was an SPG.

      And premium, of course. It doesn’t tie well into the tech tree at all.

      • Hmm, ok. I didn’t know that about soviet tanks. But then again I’m not a fan of them. I would be interested if it was a TD but not an SPG though. Definitely an interesting vehicle that I would like to see in the game TD or not.

      • Well, there sort-of was a distinction since AT-guns are generally not as easily capable of indirect fire as howitzers, therefore mostly SU-122 and SU/ISU-152s were used as SPG/TD combo, while stuff like the SU-85, SU-100 or the ISU-122 (ISU with a 122mm A19/D-25 gun) were focused a lot more in the direction of TD duty with their high velocity guns.

  3. Ensign, the 180 mm B-10P is also used on the Obyekt 261. It has an AP shell with 360 mm of penetration at 100 m.

    • Dont think so, unless you want to say this thing has worse ballistics than a british 3″ or 3.7″ howitzer (good 10 seconds for 500m) while having the traverse arc of a Grille. (you could mean both if you say something as general as “firing arc”)

  6. This thing is essentially a tier 10 gun on a tier 6 chassis…eh…it might work if the pen values are reworked, as 350 mm pen is just RIDICULOUS. At tier 10 with premium ammo, it would be possible, but on a tier 8, forget it. The only way that could be feasible is if the 350 mm pen would 1, only be obtainable with premium ammo, and 2, the premium ammo would need to be VERY expensive in order to discourage overuse.

    • Would it even NEED gold at that point? Another way to make it feasible is give it the usuall “soviet tanks get horribad soft stats” treatment – 1 degree traverse to each side, 5 second aim time, 25 second reload time. that way, the gun is almost impossible to bring to play, but if it does manage to hit….devastation.

  7. “La di da di da…what a lovely day in Himmelsdorf…hmmm i’ll just turn around this corner an-…WHAT IN THE NAME OF THE MOTHER OF GOD IS THAT???” *BOOM…dead…* ….It’d be downright terrifying to turn a corner and see that gun pointed in your face..

  12. T8? No way! This game still needs serious rearrange of dmg/pen pattern (and I mean serious nerf, like IS8 as a T10) and not bringing a new powerful gun on mid tiers.

  15. So…. it’s a t8 premium TD with the same MM as t8 lights? I’d still buy it, just to punch those T110E3 in the face.

  17. When it comes down to SutrmTiger – no, it is no avaible to create heavy gun in front of the vehicle.
    If it comes down to russian TD – it is avaible, everything legit!

  19. I love it and would buy it immediately. T8 would make sense in so far that it would have only about 1k hp unlike t9 tds which have way more.

    For the noobs among you: I own the obj 261, the t95 and the t110e3 and let me tell you: Despite 350mm of penetration this thing would still have to aim for weakspots on the t95 and e3 due to sloped armor.

    • You have just given a whole new definition to term “weakspot”, now meaning any part of tank armor that isn’t >60 mm thick at >70° angle.

      • Oh, you seriously claim you don’t get it? Let’s break it down.

        Best TD gun of tier X: British 183 mm L4. RoF: 2 RPM (!), Pen 310, Dmg 1150. Your gun: 2 RPM, Pen 356 (the buff), Dmg 1100. Same RoF, same DPM, wayy higher Pen and essentially same alpha – adjusted for tier, it’s ~35% higher actually, nearly comparable to 183′s HESH. This dmg and pen come without the typical drawbacks: unreliability of HESH, angle-hating HEATmechanics or range-hating APCR mechanics. Oh, and it gets overmatch against up to 60 mm armor. Not to mention, at reasonable credit cost AND high profits AND low repair costs.

        This is compared the TD that is loathed by some for its apocalyptic alpha and ridiculous pen – at tier X. Put that gun on tier VIII and you have a machine that can completely ignore armor and one-shot a good portion of tanks it comes across at any range. Lack of armor isn’t that much of an issue for a TD that can completely ignore armor and deal its own HP in damage with every shot reliably. Casemate doesn’t stop TD from being good unless played abysmally badly.

        This arty-with-sniper scope would completely ruin everyone who relies on armor even on tier X. And it would be immediately accessible to anyone (no tier X grind required).

        For comparison: SU-122-44 has 15 hp/ton vs SU-100Y’s 14 hp/ton, which this would be very close to. Hardly a bad mobility.

        Tier VIII. Seriously.

        • Nobody in their right mind would make it a TD… as for penn then the Grille, Hummel, M41 etc… would need a Buff to their penn. Stop your false panic and go relax a little.
          .
          This “thing” would NEVER shoot AP and nobody would use it. Its a very tall unarmored box that dies very very quickly. Think like a Hummel or Grille but even more useless.

          • Just tried to outline why it is a bad idea from gameplay perspective. The gun is already in the game fixed to tier X arty, Object 261, which does have AP shell, pen 360. If it gets direct sights, AP would be very very useful indeed, because every direct hit is guaranteed to inflict nominal damage, especially with that pen. This I find acceptable and am working towards that specific gun.

            On the other hand, putting a tier X arty gun into tier VIII premium TD…

  21. Nobody would use AP in this. Secondly 2 rounds per min would be fine. Anyone in their right mind would use HE. But I think the damage would be closer to 1200-1500 a shot. 15cm (Hummel) and 155mm (Pick almost any of them) both do 1100 already.