World of Tanks versus War Thunder

Edit: I closed the comments because it’s just rage at this point. Please note that this is a blog. It represents my opinions, what I like and don’t like, not an universal “that’s good/bad” truth. You were right. I did not know exactly how War Thunder trees work. So I checked properly – and I still don’t like it (or rather, I like it even less). Not because I am a fanboy, not because I am a hater, I simply don’t like it. That’s all.

Hello everyone,

this will be the first and probably the last (at least on FTR) post on War Thunder I am going to make, comparing both games from “outside” point of view. I will not be commenting on War Thunder planes, as I didn’t play them nearly enough and I didn’t play World of Warplanes either at all. Just tanks.

Let’s roll back a week or so ago (or is it two weeks?) to the Igromir game expo (something like Russian Gamescom or E3), where Gaijin unveiled the tanks for War Thunder. I watched the stream and was like “holy shit, that looks like Skyrim with tanks!” – and it does, doesn’t it? I mean, the quality was beautiful. But even then, after the “preeeeeettyyyyyyyy” feeling wore off, I noticed some physics glitches, like StuG getting stuck on some stone or whatever, nothing serious, but enough to break the “this will be awesome” feeling.

Still, I was full of anticipation. Well, that is, until today. Gaijin recently released the German and Soviet tank tree and my reaction was roughly: “What the fuck is this shit?!”

Seriously… have a look yourselves, here’s the German one:


I am sure SerB must be laughing his ass off right now. Why? Let’s have a look at it. The biggest beef I have with it is that it is filled with some literally identical vehicles.

- What the hell is StuG (skb) (Edit: figured it out, skb = Saukopfblende, making a vehicle based on a different mantlet ftw)
- for game purposes, StuG III Ausf.F, G, G mit Schürzen, StuH 42 – pretty much one and the same vehicle (early F’s had 50mm frontal armor). What is the point of grinding four same vehicles?
- plus points for not calling Jagdpanzer 38(t) a “Hetzer”
- Why are Elefant and Ferdinand two different vehicles? There were almost no differences between them, apart from one having a bow machinegun
- Why the hell do Elefand and Ferdinand have different superstructures on icons, they were supposed to be identical
- no higher light tanks? No Panzer II Ausf.L?
- why so many Panzer III’s? Panzer III Ausf.M and Ausf.L are almost identical, including armor and gun, Panzer III Ausf.E and F are also almost identical
- what the hell is the point of Panzer III Ausf.N? It has 70mm frontal armor, but a 75mm L/24 gun? How balanced is that? It was an infantry support version. Completely pointless in a tank game
- Panzer IV Ausf.E and Ausf.F are practically identical
- Panzer IV Ausf.F and Ausf.G actually ARE identical, it was the one and the same vehicle, it was redesignated to G after it recieved the L/48 gun. For a short period of time, even the L/48 vehicles were designated F
- this tree tries to be as historical as possible to the point of not including prototypes for now, why include Panther F (that was just an upgrade proposal, never existed) and Panther II (just a hull existed)?
- why split the Tiger II into the Porsche turret and Henschel turret versions? Apart from the nasty shot trap, those vehicles were identical
- Tiger II with KwK 46 is a purely paper project. There’s no Maus, that really existed, yet a vehicle that was never properly developed (only a concept drawing was found) makes it into the tree?

No. This German tree is full of fail and I really dislike it. The Soviet one has its issues like this too (perhaps even more).

I think Gaijin really dropped the ball here and for now, World of Tanks comes clearly ahead when it comes to tree composition. Time will show, but I won’t hold my breath, because for all of SerB’s trolling and WG fails, their trees are well thought thru (well, okay, the Brits are a mess and the Chinese are Soviet copycats but come on, at least we don’t get identical tanks on regular basis).

382 thoughts on “World of Tanks versus War Thunder

      • F2 was redesignated to G when it recieved the L/48, there was a very short period between the decision to redesignate and the actual redesignation tho.

        • >>I think Gaijin really dropped the ball here and for now, World of Tanks comes clearly ahead when it comes to tree composition

          That was understood from the beginning, no? WoT has had 2.5 years to fill out their tank trees so it would be quite silly to expect WT to have the same variety and density right at the start.

          For my part, I’m not interested in the playability and not having byzantine sight ‘rules’ like WoT’s spotting mechanics.

        • man really first play warthunder (plane version) and all that shit u put in this post will come down with his own.

          In warthunder u grind the whole nation, diferent to Wot where u grind a line of a nation. so if u pass to lv 11 in warthunder u will get all tank in lv 11 no only one, so if u see toooooooo much pz 3 or panther is for that.

        • @ Frank Davis: Jesus calm down ur temper, I guess you have no clue about WT, you have to know how this game is different in modes and gameplay to WoT.

          At first this is how a real WW2 Tanktree should almost look like atleast for the start, the way WG it did is functional but utter bullshit for the historical aspect they mixing several or all versions of a tank in one tank.

          Second, you have to understand the modes, they have aracade battles (garage battles) since the beginning so its very necessary and good to have several tanks of the same kind cause there are reward multipiers who affect repaircosts and xp/credit gaines for each vehicle they are different, like they have it for planes and this was the best system Ive ever seen.

          For example u have Ferdi and Elefant:

          Ferdi Reward Multiplier: 120% and 5000 max Repaircost

          Elefant: 140% and 8500 max Repaircost

          So its good to take a similar vehicle with much lower costs and when its a tier lower you can get in lower battles too because there was a -+2 spread or a -+3 spread dont know.

          And the picture itself clearly shows no tier data so I doubt that ferdi will be at 2 and I doubt that Pz III Ausf. N in tier will be after Pz III with a long gun, but u dont know the game mechanics in which way they implement HE, HE could be devastating with full physics (and maybe as a support tank) and the WT engine is already capable of it and its shown everyday with planes, just think of SU-152 hits against panther turret and Pz III N with 75mm against weakspots or much weaker enemies papertanks like T-70 and so on
          Also it can be much valuable to have tanks with a lot of MGs later cause u could them against planes with very little use but better than nothing, AA tanks could, and I hope they will, be introduced later.

          This is not the first game which is functional in this way, nearly every WW2 game had historical tanks like the Forgotten Hope (BF42 Mod), Forgotten Hope 2 (BF2 Mod), Red Orchestra 1, Red Orchestra 2, Soldiers: Heroes of WW2 and the Men of War Series.

          In my opinion they way WG it did is much worse when you consider all fantasy tanks and some blueprint tanks, WT choose the more historical way with some small exceptions we will see which way they might go later.

          Just give it a try and play it, then judge about it.

          • Plus: Please consider WoT is released since nearly 4 years, WT is in Beta stage and in alpha stage with tanks. ;)

          • FH had a minimod with Ratte…

            And most of those “other games” such as FH2, RO1/2, …etc. you listed were mainly combined arms shooter with infantry(and generally a big emphasis on infantry gameplay). Not comparable to both WT and WoT.

        • why are people surprised? i think it has proved many times that you cannot beat the “master” of the genre. Just as BF will never beat CoD, no one will ever beat Gaijin when it comes to planes. But also no one will beat Wargaming when it comes to tanks!! and no one will beat Rockstar at GTA. Saints Row came close but now it’s a steaming pile of shit.

    • Your all missing the point here. Each tank is separate to help with balance. World of Tanks has absolutely horrible balancing issues when it comes to tiers because each ‘vehicle’ and all of its modifications are slapped together in a single tier. With War Thunders way each vehicles modifications are there own tier allowing for better balance and more even and fair gameplay.

      • You’re full of it, it’s exactly the other way around, as for people talking about the number of tanks and how it’s in alpha, I think you people can’t yet comprehend that Gaijin won’t add a lot more tanks, you’ll only get 20-30 tanks max in each tech tree, turned into a grind of maybe 100+ because hey, who doesn’t love to play the same tank 6 times + just because an upgraded turret is another tank, extra side skirts another, a better cannon is the same tank at a higher tier and so on, that’s BS and it’s one of the major reasons why WT is a terrible game (the others being balance, basic gameplay design features, in game economy and real life economy AKA P2W).

        WT minions can’t understand what this is all about, what Frank wrote with his opinion, that’s the only reason for most of these replies here, lack of comprehension, that which is very strong in WT players.

        • You are clearly the one who lacks comphehension “grind of 100 tanks”? Thats not how wt works, for example if you unlock pz 3 at rank 5 (for example) you can buy the pz 3 and its variants, you dont grind each variant

    • 1st of all this is a beta version which means expect a lot of changes and more vehicles in the future
      2nd You will have to play with real WWII tanks and not some fake ones like Wargaming designed like B-Chat and other vehicles with load system epic fail dude.
      3rd I am happy to see something different and far more development in the tanks.
      4th All tanks had differences and you will see it in the game.

      • 1) WoT closed beta had more reasonable trees. In fact, most of the trees that existed in the beta still exist, with only minor changes.
        2) That line would have come out a lot better if you had used JgPzE-100 rather than a vehicle which had an actual prototype.
        3) Being different doesn’t mean better.
        4) If their tanks are as different as their planes, it won’t matter a damn bit.

  1. If you played War Thunder airplanes you priobably noticed same planes also. But they make it the SAME tier, so you don’t have to grind each one of them (because it’s the same plane obviously), just pick the one you are most comfortable with… One would have 6 12.7mm machineguns, other one will have 4 machineguns and 2x20mm cannons, third one will have bombs, etc… So i guess this will be the case here

      • Yak tier 8 is strong and tier 9 is OP at the moment, can 2-shot other fighters… They are not identical, not nearly, different play styles with different cannons :P
        I agree it’s a bit of a fail there, but it’s worth it getting to last 2 tiers :)
        I started playing warthunder like a month ago or so, fun game imho

        • Those cannons are really hard to aim and run outa ammo really fast :/
          Well more to the point the only thing i want from WT are the pretty ammo rack explosions :P

          • I feel like tanks are gonna be more fun to play than in WoT… Only thing i will play from wargaming are ships, i like the studio wargame bought to make wowships

    • Gaijin always feels like they pidgeon hole the tech trees with their agenda over historical accuracies and actual balancing, several times I’ve gotten on Gaijins case about their german tech tree and how they stack up against the other trees not being both tier or historically correct, they simply put jets against Jets regardless of the fact that early jets were superior enough to be a nuisance against prop planes but not superior enough to be killed by them. they just weren’t efficient enough to do a marathon against a a highly tuned prop plane with a good engine, they would be caught they would get shot down, the germans especially if they weren’t blowing their own jets up by accident they either couldn’t get them off the ground quick enough or the inferior parts required the engines to be constantly repaired. well that and during the cold war era east and west germany had Migs and Starfighters respectively, they go for Made by X country rather then what was historically accurately used.

      when it comes with their tanks I think they are Pidgeon Holing the tech trees again because it’s just german tanks but not all the tanks that were Historically used for that country during that time period. which based on their Planes tech tree is Late WWI (based on the Tier 1s) to early cold war.
      and honestly I dunno know why they are listing a bunch of the same tanks with different designations when in their plane tech tree they have the Plane haul/model and then it’s minor variations, then the next tear is a significant improvement

  2. Lol, that german tree…. If this is how it will look, it will be one boring gameplay… I dont even know how the tree progresses on tiers :D

  3. Mayebe they just want a historical techtree? (or as good as historical)

    its no wot remember!

    Ur complaining about grinding the same tank but just different types, look at the US bombertree, how many B17 versions are there? i mean its not that strange!

      • Want to fight a T-54 in your Panther Ausf.Whatever? Have fun.

        Maus didn’t make it because of planes-tanks combined battles. It would be a driving bullseye for dive-bombers. It’s like preventing idiots from their own failure.

        Also .. if you ever saw the plane-techtrees of WarThunder, youll notice for example for the germans: Many Do-217s, many Me-410s, many Bf-109s.

        Bf-109F-4 and F-4/trop differ in exactly one way – the camo painting.

        BUT they are at the same tier.

        Do-217J-1 and Do-217J-2 differ in exactly … nothing. maybe the camo painting, not sure tho.

        Seriously, I call WoT fanboi. Sayonara Wargaming, Hello Gaijin!

        • “Bf-109F-4 and F-4/trop differ in exactly one way – the camo painting.”

          Actually the trop has a filter on its air intake on the Engine and is a bit more resistant to damage.

          • still, they’re basically the same.

            @ Anonymous: Well I don’t know what SS was thinking. Did he honestly expect something other than that? I was expecting to see tons of PzIII and PzIV variants. It was said there’ll be _almost_ no prototype tanks, so how to fill up 20 tiers other than adding different variants of the same tank?
            Wargaming has already implemented most of the paper-projects there are and I’m quite happy Gaijin didn’t jump on that train too.

            Battle of the blueprints, this is what WoT is.

          • Yea, but without these modules you fly a perfectly fine aircraft. In WoT stock tanks are just pure, unplayable rubbish. And unlocks in WT are mostly negligible. They just stack minimal bonuses. The only good ones are better guns and ammo, others are just very small buffs to everything.

        • Acutally trop has a huge ass filter on the side(you can’t miss it) and it is supposed to be better performing in desert and winter maps. Supposedly. I am no expert.

  4. That’s the way War Thunder does their planes, as well. You get a lot of near-identical variants, and it’s because of the hangar system. You get 4 near-identical Stug variants in case you want to take a garage of 4 stugs into a fight. I’m not saying it’s a good system, just that it’s consistent with the way they handle their planes. You’re bringing 4 or 5 planes or tanks to a fight, and so there are duplicates to let you use more than one of something if you choose to.

    • Actually, I really like the way they did it in War Thunder. I would LOVE a game with such tech tree layout (whole way of WT tech tree is kind of different from WoT, who played it knows what I mean). I do like to drive many prototype vehicles from WoT but playing among historical vehicles with historical vehicle with so many possibilities to choose from… It reminds me of Desert Rats vs Afrika Korps or how was that game called and I loved it, so did I its “sequels”. With each prototype added to WoT it is increasing the gap between “at least somehow, so called “historical” game” to “just another game, this time with some vehicles”. Well, the historical aspect of WoT is almost already lost. Maybe Historical mode will bring some of it back, who knows. But “it drives me nuts” (well, in fact, I do not think about it too much while I play, but whenever I come across some historical article/book/documentary, it makes me a little sad it is this way in WoT) that I have to drive historical vehicle with unhistorical (proposed, hoped for or even developed entirely by WG) armament. And also, the different damage model in WT compared to WoT may be also appealing, challenging, interesting to play with. I will definitely give it a try and keep my hopes high, so will many of my clan mates. I would not condemn it as you did, SS :) but different taste for everyone :) “Funny” trivia, I prefer WoWP. I do not care so much about planes as I do about tanks, so I do not see deep enough into planes that I can tell what is or is not historical about specific plane, only roughly and only about some planes. I feel that WoWP is more arcade but after I will buy desktop I will give WT planes another shot. Better fps = better feeling from game.

      • +1 – whenever I run across my Hunnicutt-books or my ‘Panzer-Tracts’ and the ‘Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two’ it makes me wanna do a damn essay on how WG fucked up the historical accuracy in every tank in every way possible.

        World of Tanks ain’t a single bit historical anymore. Bullshit armament everywhere, bullshit armor layouts (M6′s armor on the front hull is wrong, T1 Heavy’s armor on the front turret is wrong), bullshit characteristics ..

        It’ll be hard for WoT to get me back from WT Ground Forces.

        • The kind of people like you, that want historical accuracy and simulation are exactly the type of people WoT is NOT for, and has never been. Even since the first chapters of WoT it has paper tanks, and weird physics, and janky historicity.

          • there was a time i think when WG said “we want history” needles to say it was rapidly scrapped for gameplay

            i have no idea how they will balance t-54 vs…well anything german

            • perhaps by it’s reallife-values? No 700hp engine, no D-54, no D-10T2C. Only a D-10T and the 2 later version have a LB-1. And that gun should prove to be inferior to the long 88.

            • Why do you decide LB-1 would be worse than L71?! D-10T is perfectly capable of wreaking havoc in the german ranks, not to mention the great armor of the T-54.

            • It is neither about realism nor about simulator. It is about playing Tiger II against T54 or playing Leopard 1 against Maus. Or WZ120 against Tiger I. It is more like StG44 in CoD4. You have it there more of like an “eastern egg” than of any historicity or any use. They keep spitting “for history” but try to play Panther with historical configuration against Foch. Good luck. The heck, I enjoy VK3002M more than Panther. That VK reminds me more of an actual Panther than their Giant-poking-stick. I do not mind playing completely fantasy, made up game, I played Planet Side 2 for example or BF2142, but I hate to see historical WWII vehicles being put into “BF2142″ or “Planet Side 2″

  5. Yes it really doesnt excite does it,
    Theres no incentive to grind when almost all the tanks are the same, its going to be damn boring.

    • You don’t grind. You haven’t played War Thunder I guess. You don’t grind individual tanks and planes so much as raise your country rank. So all of those stug variants would be unlocked at the same rank, and you would then bring up to 4 if you want because of their respawn system.

      • But you still need to grind for the cash (Lions?) if you want all the variants even if they do unlock at the same country level, no?

        • You need to grind out individual modules for each aircraft as well as the ability to use different ammunition . (it is not as bad as a “bone” stock grind but there is no such thing as free free exp .) iE The only way to unlock modules without grinding is by paying for it .

        • Are you kidding me ? I’m at level 5~6 in all countries and all it feels like is a long LONG grind. The soviet SBs are the best example, they stacked 3 or 4 identical planes at the same tier, one after another, because you NEED to buy thoses. Yes, NEED, to be able to continue.

          I lose interest after a while everytime I play because I look at the tier 6/7 that I would like to own, but they cost 30k~50k a piece and I don’t have that kind of time. And once you have an airplane, all that is interesting it to unlock the bombs for bombers. It’s not like WoT, where you have several modules on the way, and you have a feeling of achievement when you get a new gun or engine with noticeable differences.

          And so, your StuGs, you’ll have to buy them ALL, one after another, grinding for credits and XP to be able to reach them with their increasing cost if you want to get whatever you want.

          • Lol. Like wot does not take enough time to reach higher tiers. 400 battles with the exactly same tank over and over again. Fun isnt it?
            And who the heck said fly bombers all the way in arcade. Russian line has fighters too. And thats not the games fault you suck. Want to level up fast? Fly historical. Oh you get raped there? Well sorry, your problem.

  6. Do the trees matter really that much? I agree that having them filled with identical tanks does not actually show as appealing and does not make you wish to grind the next one. But what really counts is the gameplay. I have not tried WT of course but I would not judge the game ONLY based on the tech tree (specifically referring to your “probably the last post about WT”).

    • But the tanks ARE THE GAMEPLAY. They ARE the incentive to continue. You want to own them and play them and therefore you play. And the way you play will be determined by what you want and what you must do to get there.

  7. I lost interest watching that plane bomb the two tanks. Wow that would be so much fun.. I hate arty enough as it is and I can only imagine my rage.

  8. I bet that the WT Panther II gets the unhistorical 8.8 L/71 in a schmalturm turret. Which is a blunder made by Spielberger earlier in his career which he later corrected. Panzer Tracts 5-4 has diagrams of an accurate Panther II with a more accurate turret and the 7.5 cm L/70. Maybe WG will place the historical turret of the Panther II in the near future.

  9. Think that was a similar feeling I got with WT planes vs WoWP.

    The ‘wow pretty’ shock was there, but then it wore off pretty quick with garage battles dragging on forever and the presence of multiple similar planes that feel like they’re there to pad the trech tree.

    The German fighters tree goes from Bf 109 F-4 > Bf 109 F-4 Trop (Which I believe the only difference was the addition of filters and such for desert combat), then Bf 109 G-2 > G-6 > G-10 which are upgrades, but WoWP takes care of nicely with its module/upgrade system rather than having three separate planes.

    • The gameplay and graphics need to improve :/ . They shoulda held off developing that game until the new bigworld engine was ready .

    • The WoWP tech tree makes so little sense I’m surprised it didn’t get laughed out of a room. What sort of bizarre progression has a tree go F4F -> F4U (??) 3 different variations of the F4U including the Good Year version, before jumping to the jet fighters.

      I mean, going from Grumman ‘cat designs suddenly to Vought designs is just so bizarre.

      You’d think they could’ve just gone F6F -> F8F -> F9F, etc.

      • No Vought low tier planes? Ever stroke you at that? And I do think the F6F/F8F/F9F will come of as a separate branch sooner rather than later. (like the Yaks)

      • I think they will revise the the tech tree by time. for eg. where is F6F, F7F and F8F now?? those will be implemented in the future (as I remember one of the WG guys (SerB?) said that there will be lot more planes in WoWP than tanks in WoT)

    • IF they would merge those prototypes as a modules for actual tanks, then it may bring back some of that “historicity” to WoT. But they would have to rework many, many things to make that work. For example, choosing VK36 / Tiger I hull makes you tier 6, imaginary 88L71 makes you tier 7. I see no way they would make it this or similar way.

  10. ” Why are Elefant and Ferdinand two different vehicles? There were almost no differences between them, apart from one having a bow machinegun”

    You are wrong. They are the same vehicle. It’s merely a myth the rename was due a field upgrade. The renaming order happened in november 1943 and the field upgrade orders in february 1944

    • Which makes it all the more funny . Oh wg , i want a hellcat along with my m 18 . implement this please .

  11. Note on the Panther II, both the turret and the hull existed. There where 3 hulls created and only 1 survived after the war. The only turret I know of and it was sent to Bovington and shot to pieces. But yes most of that list is lackluster

    • The 1943 project Panther II was shot down when the Panther went into production with shuerzen

      Then it went through the different models, and THEN the Schmalturm was developed with Panther Ausf. F in 1944 with the possibility of upgrading to the 88 L/71 being developed in 1945

      War Thunder’s Panther II, if that is the 88 L/71 in it’s icon, is a few years apart technologically

  12. Your post shows your ignorance about WT. I like your blog very but this post was the worst you have ever done. In WT you have the Garage battles. That means you can take more than 1 vehicle(or plane atm) in the battle. You should have taken a look at the WT Planes trees before posting this. A lot of planes have nearly identical stats and thats puts them at the same tier. So you can fly only Spitfires for example or only fighters/bombers. This is a Preliminary Tank Tech Tree and you dont know how to progress nor the tiering. Btw tiering goes up to 20 not 10 like in wot and the mm takes your highest tier vehicle as the “starting point”.
    Perhaps you should install it and play one nation to lvl 6 or so. Or wait till the tanks are released.

    • 1+
      Most ignorant thread on this blog ever. Knowing Gaijin they will add more tanks later on. + Tanks and planes battle in the same game..

      • Ye, awesome.. Stuka incomming.. bum bum bum, 6 tanks dead.. Must say, rly interesting…

        • Yeah sure .. try spotting a tank on the ground from 1km away. While you’re trying to avoid or are fighting enemy planes. The only thing that can lead a plane onto target are incredible luck and good eyes, or a tank on the ground that leads him there.

    • And Btw what is this? “like StuG getting stuck on some stone or whatever, nothing serious, but enough to break the “this will be awesome” feeling.”

      Like you dont get stuck in Wot on a small rock???
      WT looks better and has better physics and havoc you have to admid that when you watched the stream.

      • WT has better physics? Are you fucking moronic? The only thing WT has is active suspension the actual physics are worse then WoT at least at the moment.

        • Please watch the stream of WT, it is technically supirior in every way. I like Wot but i am also a realist.

      • I also forogt 2 importen point you dont know.

        1. You level up your Nation not a specific tree line like in Wot
        2. There are Multiple tragets to shoot at (Trucks,Bunkers,AA,AT,Arty) not only Tanks.
        Later perhaps even infantry (They are in the game and you can shoot them with your plane)

        This line: “It was an infantry support version. Completely pointless in a tank game”
        even more stupid…

      • You used to get stuck on small rocks in WoT, but that was way back before they introduced the current physics engine.

      • They have already said that the vehicle speed was increased just for igromir event so people could get about more in the 6-7 mins they had to play. By doing this it made the physics a bit whacky

  13. Complaining about something that just got revealed in the last couple of hours. Remember the split of the KV-1 and KV-2?

    And duuuh! Destined to be added more tanks later on.

    • One of the arguments why WT Tanks will be better than WoT was “No paper tanks/planes!”, so it’s not fine.

  14. Sorry FTR, but I dont understand why you are crying about so many things that most of the time doesnt even make sense like that there are more versions of one tank (its warthunder you can spawn more than one time in one battle) or like there is no Maus, first of all its the first tree they show and second the Maus did not see combat like tanks that come into the tree like the Tiger 2 with the 10,5cm even if it never used this gun, but this vehicle did exist in battles.

    • It did not exist in battles it was only a proposal . And tests were carried out . Never saw combat neither was it used in any production vehicle .

    • I heard only Historical gun for kt is long 8.8. Panther 2 was unfinished Hull, so it is another semi fake tank in this tree. I played garage battles in wt and im not impressed. I prefer to Play more shorter separate battles. Only thing WT has better than WG is optimization. After 20mins of wowp my laptop overheats and I get significant fps drops, while wt runs smoothly

  15. Shameful view-baiting article. Everyone who say the Igromir vids knows that WT far surpasses World of Tanks in almost every way (e.g. graphics), and that once Ground Forces goes live the WOT servers will be deserted. This is why Serb is resorting to such money-grubbing tactics lately to extract as much money from his game before it dies, e.g. only selling premium vehicles in gift shop. giving 8.9 German tds such low pen to FORCE people to buy gold rounds (thus premium or gold needed to sustain income)

      • Look at 150mm on WTF E100. It even bounce off itself if hits its hull, and the new Waffentragers are supposed to be “glass cannons” – what hope has it penning other t10 tanks ????

        • WT are so confident about their new ground forces stomping all over their competition that there is no premium ammo, so you can pay the game completely FOR FREE. Also from the video it looks like every shot does damage like Battlefield, so its not like WoT where you have to constantly buy gold to pay for premium ammo to have any chance to do damage, thus get xp to unlock new tanks, and if you do not have premium account you constantly get trolled by RNG with low pen rolls, bounces, compared to paying players.

          WoT just preys on psychologically weak people that get addicted to playing the game at the low tiers. Then at high tiers they are forced to constantly shell out gold for rounds because most tanks are useless without apcr/heat/hesh (e.g. comet, death star, even premium tanks – so you buy a tank with real money to pay real money for gold ammo to play with it, e.g. horrid pen on is-6, t-44-85). I know people I’ve platooned with who have spent thousands of euros on this game, are so addicted they lost their jobs and play this game 10+ hours a day, and every day spend 5-10 euros+ of their welfare money paying for gold ammo, leaving them with no money to even buy food (they would forego food than play WoT). This game is worse than gambling for creating helpless addicts. I am happy to see WoT, a cancer on society, be replaced with WT, whose company treats their customers fairly and makes games instead of slot machines.

            • @Anon: grow some balls and use your nickname and dont hide behind the anon name, otherwise shut up.

          • I don’t need gold ammo even in tier X battles.(on random, not cw). your friends must be terribad if they can’t afford gold ammo for credits when paying for premium account. And they deem to be mentally damaged if they loose work, school or life for a computer game. U write bullshit overall. I buy sometimes gold to pay developers for their work. I’m not forced to do it. I see u and ur friends cry now becsuse pay to win doesn’t work here.

            • Fuck HP – go with actual modules you need to knock out. No ‘Weakspot’ = Win. If you can’t penetrate the enemy turret, gunner, loader and commander stay alive. As simple as that. Maybe you can make sure he’s not able to maneuver anymore – but he can still kill you.

          • I hope they don’t commit suicide when they realise premium ammo has been available for silver credits for ages.

          • Constantly use gold ammo? Now I am really affraid to check your stats….

            “Also from the video it looks like every shot does damage like Battlefield, so its not like WoT” It’s not like WoT, It’s much worse.

    • I don’t think so. As I watched WT has only better graphics. It has an idiotic arty mode for tanks which is even worse than wot artillery and battles tanks + planes – who will play tanks if a plane will be able to take them out in a second and you can do nothing to them. Besides it wants to be too much historical – the game will be simply boring. I prefer wot which has prototypes and projects which bring variety in the gameplay (the problems with balance of some of them is a different story). So stop this BS with WT killing wot. It won’t happen. Honestly all this WT fanboys are annoying with their BS how WT is ideal – it isn’t. Beautifully animated suspension won’t make me leave wot.

  16. OP obviously retarded.

    They use different models of the same vehicle because they won’t use all those fantastic plasma driven tanks that either never existed. So to make a more realistic tank tree, they will use the models they used during the real war.

    T-34 and T-34-85 is very much alike. But you don’t see people pissing their pants about it. The real life models often only had a difference in engine, armour or armament. Which is enough for them to make different tanks.

    There’s no need for “higher” rank light vehicles as it isn’t really about having every vehicle type in every rank (as WoT always tries to do). It’s simply not realistic to have light tanks driving around to face heavy and late medium tanks. PzII wasn’t really used for such combat later in the war.

    The Panzer IV Ausf. F has a different gun than the Ausf. G, there’s your difference. Almost every tank in WoT instead has a gun it never used in real life or most often didn’t use, that’s not how it works in War Thunder. T-34-85 with a 100mm gun.. the 85 stands for 85mm.

    I find it to be hilarious that you crack down on the PzIII for being an infantry support tank, well, guess what, almost every PzIII was transformed to a infantry support version. It might be pointless in a tank game… but then again, it’s in WoT too, doesn’t that make it pointless there too? Don’t give me that “anti-artillery” bullcrap. There’s at least infantry in War Thunder, as well as artillery and AAA.

    They add paper versions that were actually accepted for production and other upgrades that would have come into service if the war lasted a while longer, because the other nations will get Korean war tanks. At least War Thunder will try to hold it at Korean war era vehicles, unlike WoT which actively adds tanks (many of which never existed or failed miserably) from almost the 1970′s against 1945 tanks.

    The reason they didn’t add Maus is probably because it wouldn’t be practical. In the unrealistically small “tailored” maps of WoT it can work. But with the larger maps in War Thunder it would take way too long to travel around with it. Also, it didn’t really “exist”, it existed almost as much as Panther II existed.

    WoT should add the Ratte or Landkreuzer, they’ve added so many other paper projects why not the Ratte that was actually written on a paper!? AMIRITE?! (same logics as the Maus not being added)

    Also, don’t forget that this is only a early stage of the tree, more trees and tanks will probably be added. It’s still in beta, in a earlier stage than WoT has been in years.

    • “The Panzer IV Ausf. F has a different gun than the Ausf. G, there’s your difference.”

      From the article:- Panzer IV Ausf.F and Ausf.G actually ARE identical, it was the one and the same vehicle, it was redesignated to G after it recieved the L/48 gun. For a short period of time, even the L/48 vehicles were designated F

      So the Ausf. F and Ausf. G have the same gun.

      Entire post is worthless.

      • You answer one of my points, congrats, you fail.

        It’s not the F. It’s the F2 that is the identical one. They never really had other versions named “X2″, so naturally they proceeded with the normal way for them to designate newer versions, by going to the next letter instead.

        • You can’t just say, “Oh yes, one of my points was wrong, but my argument still stands!”

          Typical Nazi defender, knows the in-and-outs of the entire German inventory system like the back of his hand. Listen, correct your tenses and the incorrect point and you can hand it back in at the end of the day for partial credit.

          • Nazi defeder? did he even mention them?

            you did not even answer the entire post so it seems more like run out of arguments and got all pissy about it.

            • Actually, most of the things I wrote are facts too. You deal in incorrect facts, and a tad of WoT-fanatisicm. Are you going to give your life for the cause too? ;)

          • You’re doing the same thing, refusing to accept that you’re wrong.

            Also, interesting how you’re calling me a nazi “defender” claiming I know everything by the back of my hand, then stating that I am wrong.

            I should figure out something to call people like you who instantly saves themselves using the “nazi defender” title. Hm.. but what shall it be.. Can’t come up with something good.

            My statement still stands, it was the F2 that is identical, it wasn’t really named F2 for long, as that is simply not how they designate tanks. It’s common sense and a simple ability to see patterns. They designate their models by letters, not letters and a number.

            The Russians didn’t name the T-34-85, T-34B instead, because that’s not how they roll. Granted, sometimes they did use letters for some tanks. But mainly the IS-1 was named IS-2 after upgrades. Not IS-1B or IS-1-2.

            By the way, the fact still stands that you only answered one point, which you thought was wrong, but you were just confused.

            • It says ‘Pz.Kpfw IV Ausf. F2′ right on the fucking picture. Look at it again. Right above Ausf. G.

            • It does indeed. But they can’t have a double Ausf. G in the tree. Unless they named one Ausf. G mod 1942 and Ausf. G mod 1943.

              Because you know, the F2 is using the L/43 gun. OP is wrong saying it was renamed F2 after the L/48 gun.

              The F2 could also be named G (early) and the other G (late).

              The F2 is more like an F (late) with another gun (standard F only had the short 75mm).

              So basically, the F2 is Ausf. G in the most early stages. The G in the tree is the later G with armour upgrades, changes to the commanders cupola, a starter fuel injector and I think some other changes with the engine that increased cold and warm weather performance and loads of other small things like headlights.

            • Wait, to further clarify. They had to name it either F2, or the G early/late that I just said.

              I think the devs thought that since the F2 had such a big difference in gun performance, they’d rather have a F2 instead of another G because the F2 is actually closer to the F than the late G ;)

            • Another thing I just thought of. It might be so that the F2 has a later turret variant than that of the ordinary F. While the G has an even “newer”.

            • Well .. after WW2 they actually did. T-54, T-54A, T-54B, T-55, T-55A, T-55AM, T-55AMV, T-55AMV-1, T-62, T-62B, T-62BV etc. etc. – fact is that they never changed caliber-size anymore, so that’s why A,B,C,D came in handy.

              Also, the ISU-152 with BL-10 existed. It was named ISU-152BM (ISU-152 ‘Gun with Great Power’). Again, because the caliber-size didn’t change and calling it ‘ISU-152 ML-20′ and ‘ISU-152 BL-10′ sounds idiotic too.

              But your point is valid, just look at the T-34, T-34-57, T-34-85, KV-85, KV-122, SU-76, SU-85, SU-122, SU-152 etc.

            • One more thing I want to say.. There will probably be more tanks added after some time. Maybe even your beloved Maus. Not sure though, since it will still be a pain in the ass to get around in it. I don’t see how they can solve that.

  17. I like it and I am going to play this game.I am fed up with Wargaming gold grenades,troll platoons and MM and most of all SERB attitude.

  18. This news pleases me.

    War Thunder is the wet dream of the worse half of WoT’s community. I am happy that there are games like WT because it purifies the WoT community from those people.

    I’m not considering this a WT fail, only a solution for people with “specific mind-set” who always find a reson to whine about WoT. IMO WT and WoT are like Ying Yang. Two opposites that perfectly fill the genre.

    • Actually, the worse part of the WoT community are those who are playing WoT furiously and insulting everyone else with a different opinion on the game, oh wait, did I just perfectly describe you? Oh well…

    • I’m hoping too, that the retards and noobs will go play WT instead of WoT so there will be better gameplay in WoT again.

        • Source of stupidity is not WOT or WG but self proclaimed “tank aces” that for some reason think they will be next oto carius and wot is just holding back their obvious ascending into tank legends.

          • Most times people get loads of kills in any WoT game they feel they’re the best and they’re aces, no real difference there. I think you’re just dreaming up a story that you think sounds nice.

    • Actually i can’t wait to play WarThunder ground forces.It would be a novelty and also a good refresher from the stale WoT. WoT is an arcade game with a semblance to history with artificial balancing and Warthunder promises to be historical and chaotic just like in a real war with real engagement ranges and real pros and cons that real tanks really possesed at least from the battle point of view. I couldn’t care less about the companies( WG, GAijin) trying to milk my money because i am real cheapstake and also not freaking blind to their obvious money grabing. I can’t wait to have fun with a new gameplay approach and improved graphics. Just my 2 cents…

    • So I’m at the worse side of WoT? A player with well over 20k battles and 2,400 WN8 Rating? Damn I must be terribad ..

      No, it’s just cleaning WoT off people with actual common sense that are sick of paper-projects and WGs policy of ‘add more tanks, the grind will keep them silent’ instead of actually doing something about bugs, shitty maps and a fucked up and way too bad engine.

      Now they’re desperately trying to catch up with WT by ‘overhauling’ the Big World Engine.

      They promised Multi-Core Support over a year ago .. Did you hear anything of that lately? No. Because people are tired of receiving the ‘when it’s done, it’s done’ answer.

      I’m sick of WoT and for the sake of being an actual tank-game, I’ll play Full-Real Battles where you actually feel like having control over a tank (manual gear shifting and stuff) instead of playing yet another shooter, just with tanks instead of infantry.

      • Yes, you are in the worse side of WoT community, because you want WoT to be something it will never be and doesn’t want to be – a simulator. You whine, bitch and moan without using your brain.

        You are a noob in the truest sense of this term – somebody who never learns. Having good stats means you are a valuable asset in a match, not necessarily that you are also wanted around.

        I like my damn prototypes because some cool designs never made it to life because reasons, being it cost, practicality, bombings, competing designs and I want to see them live, at least in the pixel world.

        So yeah, bring on WT and get the fucking turds outta my WoT, you will not be missed.

      • >>No, it’s just cleaning WoT off people with actual common sense that are sick of paper-projects and WGs policy of ‘add more tanks, the grind will keep them silent’ instead of actually doing something about bugs, shitty maps and a fucked up and way too bad engine.

        Well, you know? Begone, and don’t come back.

  19. No point in comparing the games yet. I hear many players complaining in WoT about crazy prototype projects and stuff that is in the game.
    On the other way round, even if the tech tree from Gaijin has its flaws, some start whining about tanks being double? Well not many “different” tank concepts saw combat. Kicking out all these different marks would cause War Thunders concept of long awaited “garage battles” in WoT completely useless.

    However, the game isn’t testable yet. Just wait for it to release and compare the gameplay rather than raw tech trees.
    Maybe we’ll get two different games with different gameplay that both are fun.
    Whatever happens, we’ll benefit from the competition.

      • you mean making game according to stupid suggestions will be better for wot? Like making all german tanks OP would make a lot of players happy those making everyone play only op german tanks would be great? I mean Serb has a good point in not listening to stupid suggestions.

        • Not sure you meant to reply here.. but yeah..

          The problem isn’t that Serb doesn’t listen to stupid suggestions, that’s all fine.. but he doesn’t listen to anyone at all. Even when there’s something wrong and everyone is complaining about it. Since he has no competition, everyone just has to accept that he can do whatever he wants since there’s no real punishment for not listening and no real reason to do what the customers want. Instead he can create a game in any way he pleases even though the majority of people think something should be changed.

          • BS

            Things that got in game after community demanded it!
            Dally double.
            3 man platoon for regular account.
            TC for regular account
            gold shells for credits
            gold consumables for credit
            different game modes on same maps
            leo 1
            less tier spread (from no limit to +-4 to +- 3 to +- 2)
            arty rebalanced
            heat mechanics upgrade
            etc etc….

          • Majority isint equal to the best. Actualy it is oposite.

            So, what problems is that everyone want it changed? only thing i remember was arty, but it is nerfed to the point that nobody plays them now. Perfect example of what comunity wants is diferent of what needs to be done. I hope competition will get Wot listen to whiners.

  20. Guys, Did you know it is possible to play MORE THEN 1 Game on your computer?
    I will try out WT tanks, But will I Leave WoT? No
    Ill probably just play both.

    WT Tanks has potential, And you cannot make judgement based on 1 Picture of a Tech tree.
    WT Tanks isn’t even in Beta yet. they will both be GREAT Games. And we, the players, Will benefit from the fact that WoT isnt the only tank game in the Market anymore, Meaning WG Will have to step up their game (Not that what they are doing now isnt Fantastic)

    ~Chieftain_NZ (SEA/ASIA)

    • Hey a reasonable comment, and it’s from someone playing on the same server as I do.
      And here I thought I had to make a comment along the lines of “Am I the only one…”

      Now excuse me please while I testplay the Nashorn a bit longer, make a video and then drool on the WT techtree a bit more~

  21. Well there is one thing that WT will (probably) do better than wot, the HB’s.

    But after watching the stream of the arcade battle i must say im rather disappointing. The graphics are nice, and the models look amazing, but really thats it. Whats the point of combining such realism (correct tank-gun combinations, no paper projects or prototypes) with super arcade gameplay? srsly? instead of gun sights we have some “over shoulder zoom”?? They ditch the HP of tanks but leave HP of modules so unless you hit something like ammo rack or fuel tanks it is not one penetration = kill… Or that arty strike mechanic!! What the hell?

    Like i said, HB will probably be better in WT due to the way game is designed, but this arcade mode is far inferior to WOT. The idea of pursuing “historical accuracy” in arcade game is just dumb.

    Also, im glad the WT will drag the crowd that blame WG and WOT for their bad gameplay and stats, and they are the majority of “WT is supreme over WOT” population.

    • I can agree that the artillery strikes is a bad idea. But then again, what you got to see was just an early beta stage. It might still be subject to change.

      WoT is however far from perfect too, and there’s a vast amount of people that are “WoT is the best thing ever and WT won’t stand a chance” that are equal to the other “WT people”.

      • yeah, comparing the size and dedication of anti-WG community and anti-WT community is hilarious… what im saying is, that most above average wot players are far more pleased with the game than your average tomato… and tomato being a tomato, he is driven to find the fault somewhere else and that includes blaming the game and designers. And what do you know, the most numerous crowd in “WG SAKZ!” bandwagon are *drum roll* … yeah, baaaad players

  22. Going past the WoT/WoWp versus WT, just look at the responses of WT players. You guys sure like to rip on WoT/WoWp, but SS can’t say anything about WT?

    He explicitly stated that he never played WT. His views are that of an onlooker seeing Gaijin’s design choices for the first time. What he saw was countless copies of the same vehicles, and that’s what he’s written here.

    One thing that I do not like about WT’s unlock system is how you have little control over it. “You’ve attained level 5 of your country! Congratulations! You’ve unlocked a bomber even though you only play fighters.” My guess is that it’s going to go the same way with WT’s tanks.

  23. Sick of being told to join the army? Unhistorical ranges disturbing you? Not enough Swastikas? Don’t worry, it’ll all get better with Warthunder Ground Forces™!

    Fight Battles from over 4km away in historically large maps the size of Finland!

    Not enough Schurzen? Now you can mount schurzen and a much applique armor as you wish until your tank is an immovable hulk!

    Annoyed by political correctness? With Warthunder™, you can play as a member of the SS complete with Swastika, just like in your Nordic Supremacist Fantasies!

    Annoyed by Soviet Accuracy? Soviet cannons can no longer hit anything, ever, because of poor construction! Indulge in the joys of machinegunning the crew (all of which look like Stalin) as they bail out of their burning hulks of communist oppression!

    Other features of warthunder™:
    -Intelligence tests required in order to enter random battles! Eugenic sterilization performed on violators to ensure a host of intelligent opponents and allies!
    -Play as Wittman or even Hitler himself!
    -Tupac will be alive and well, and number one in serbia!
    -Warthunder™ will remove the kebab!
    -Anime will be real in Warthunder™!
    -Warthunder™ will make you an upstanding member of society with a strong nuclear family and a devoted wife and children!

    Unhappy with life? Don’t worry, it’ll all be better with Warthunder™!

    • You think devs from Moscow itself will make russian tanks unable to hit anything? Sure. That’s likely.

      Also, I could counter the playing as the SS part with..

      Now you can play and talk about both NKVD and KGB how much you want! No one will even care! This package even comes with the massacre pack, where you can slaughter civilians, then trick people into believing you didn’t do it!

      • Just making fun of the WoT players who are convinced WT will be the cure-all second coming of Christ panacea for everything they dislike about WoT. I don’t doubt WT will have advantages over WoT, but it’ll likely have its flaws too.

        • True, WT won’t be perfect. I can say that I hope they remove that weird artillery thing they showed at Igromir.

          WoT is a fun game, more so than for some others. Those others can try WT and see if it is more fun, otherwise they’re out of luck.

          • The way they showed us artillery in the Igromir footage won’t be implemented this way in the actual game.
            Gaijin “buffed” artillery for Igromir so we get an idea how it’ll work in the future. You know at Igromir the players only had a couple of minutes time to play the game, therefore they had to speed things up, like speed of the tanks itself or the arty-call in-cooldown etc.

  24. Wow. The only person who dropped the ball is you SS. You did not play WT once, did you? You do not know that it has multiple vehicles selectable for battle? That there are multiple vehicles on the same tier? That you do not grind vehicles AT ALL, instead you grind nations? No? Then please do not post about something you have NO clue about. Please and thank you.

  25. Can we NOT talk about Warthunder, ever ? Especially since many WT-ites have a compulsive hatred of everything that is about WG ? This is just calling for disaster. Let’s just time pass and discuss things once everything has been released. Otherwise you’re just setting this blog ablaze and inciting a flame war.

    • You mean, unlike all those nice WoT fans? Calling a game P2W without knowing jack-squat about it? While playing a game that introduced playing to winning Clan Wars (subversion)?

            • How is that a pay to win? You pay (gold) to win (province), remove hostile clan, avoid fight. That is a fucking definition of pay to win?

            • FAIL! You can not buy gold for the clan, you can only win it on the map, no real money involved.

          • So obvious that you have no clue what you’re talking about. Subversions are payed for out of your clan’s treasury. Guess what? You can’t buy gold to put in your clans treasury. Only gold that you earn from holding territy goes in there, therefore, you can only use subversions by being good at clan wars.

      • How do you call the buy-maxed-out-crew-for-money and pay-to-have-more-respawns if not pay to win?

          • Well its not 100, but you can almost double your number of respawns for money… like from 6 to 10… or something like that…

      • I’m not saying WoT is perfect, but hang around WT forums and you will notice people hanging around with “WoT Survivor” signatures.

        I can empathize with the fact that they didn’t find their match in WoT, especially if they came in thinking they were getting historical accuracy. The game was not made for them, and that’s too bad. But still, there *is* hate

  26. Good to see you’re comparing a game released many years before (WoT), full of prototypes and arcadish gameplay, with an early beta of other game (refering to tanks), trying to be historical accurate and balanced at the same time. (WT)

    I’m sure you were on the Closed Alpha of WoT to make such objetive impressions. /sarcasm

    Anyway, everyone will be playing the game they want, despite of your opinion or mine.

    Should be hard to try the game and make your own opinion. Keep playing WoT while I’ll be playing both.

    • It’s a nice and rational statement. Too bad that all the WT folks were doing what you’re condemning against WoWp.

      I’m not saying that you or other WT players are all like that, but if you criticize, you must be willing to be criticized.

      Most peeps have a how-dare-you attitude at anyone saying anything at WT, but it’s open season when it’s against WG, WoT and WoWp.

  27. The surviving Ferdinands were repaired and modified after the battle of Kursk and
    since Hitler had ordered to have tem renamed, this also happened on top of it.
    So the refitted Ferdinands became Elephants.

    But there is actually another big change to the tank aside the MG. It got a command coppola.
    This is the other thing to keep the two versions apart. I was really surprised that you can’t see it in the Elephant siluette. As a huge Elephant/Ferdi fan I always hoped for it to get reworked, so it would get it’s historical gunshield (I could live with the 10.5), so there would be the first chance to have a accurate looking one.
    I even hope that the Elephant will be introduced as a tier 7 premium tank with the historical 8.8 L 71,
    despite having two more weakspots ^^

  28. Seriously, what should we expect from a world of tanks blog owner/player ? Promoting war thunder instead of the game that makes him popular/earn money ? That would be shitting in his own pants. He did what he had to: throwing bullshit to a 0km game, ignoring all the shit wargaming doing since the very beginning.


      • In fact, I’d say this blog has gotten more mud-racking-”it’s here forever”-reporting recently, with alot of playing with that “donkey” thing, calling out false advertisement, player behaviour and all of that. And that’s good.

        So, calling SS a WoT-fanboy (or equivalent) is simply ridiculous.

        • I’ve read earlier (like on the old FTR or something) that SS was originally pretty pro-WG until he became disillusioned with their practices and stuff.

          • It doesn’t matter what he *used to* think about them. What matter is what he does now, and what he does is “keeping them honest”-mud-racking/journalism.

            • I was agreeing with you, just saying that if SS was a “WG-fanboy” it was a long time ago. I’m sure we can all agree that what he’s doing now is MUCH appreciated.

  29. The thing is, War Thunder works differently to how Word of Tanks does. There are already a lot of identical aircraft in the game, and I have no problem with that because you get to choose a line up of vehicles, not just one. So having an extra Pz.3 can always come in handy, after your other Pz.3 gets taken out. Look at the Spitfire Mk 1 and Mk 2 for example, nearly the same in every way with only minor changes. But I don’t mind because that just means I have an extra Spitfire to take to battle. And the tech tree is far more historical to World of Tanks where more than 50% of the vehicles were only prototypes or blueprints.

  30. Can someone throw out the WT trolls that saw an opening after the donkey died to annoy this blog because it dosent picture WT as the “perfect” game. Seriously cant you have an opinion without this sort of ignorance?

    • The Problems with his post is that he didnt play WT and he bashes the the thing as he had played it. Tanks arent even released. And Wot is beeing developed longer than WT. He just posted this because he had to, because this is a WoT blog. He didt gave WT a fair chance. I hope he playes it when tanks are released.

      • He looked at tech tree historicall and with facts he didnt complain about gameplay but decisions, Why put in T-54s when the game would be fun with WW2 only for start and the odd namings + WT is bad in historical acc just look at Beufighter mk X.

  31. I can’t how WT is going to balance its tanks. T-54 vs Panther II? IS-4 vs Tiger II? I can already feel the Russian bias rage.

  32. Quite disappointed from this article. I remembered this blog to be much better and more critical.

    This looks like Serb whining about something barely started…..

  33. Don’t forget War Thunders Ground Forces is in it’s infancy where as World of Tanks has been out for 2 years now, as wargaming used to say… “Give it time, and be patient.”

  34. not to be rude or something, but didn’t WOT Used to have MM where they had Tier 1 against Tier 10 in the begining? so why bash so hard something that hasn’t even been close to finish state…. psychics can be resolved and no offence but WOT really need a bit better graphics , maybe not like WT but still.

  35. Why I don’t even consider other games?

    Simply, too much time invested in wot plus all my friends are playing wot, so there’s no reason for me to even try some other game.

    p.s. Since I’ve started playing wot, I’ve stopped playing any other PC game, but I do play Tower Defense on Android :) :) :)

  36. These are the trees you SHOULD be comparing WT tank trees too, not the current roster for WoT which Wargaming has had two and a half years to add too:

    All in all, people will still play WT and people will still play WoT, Get over it. Stupid articles like this do NOT help, if you’ve got nothing better to do with your time than shit fling then go for it, but please stop acting like 12 year olds. I’d expect this kind of rampant fanboyism from COD and Battlefield kiddies when they argue whats better…..

    • I’d rather grind with the tanks I like instead of having to grind a bullshit tank I absolutely hate.

      Rather grind my Ferdinand with my StuG III instead of my Jagdpanther, for example. Or Panther II with my PzIV, instead of my Panther.

      Simple as that, WT allows you to play what you like and still progress. Unlike WoT, which FORCES you to play certain tanks you don’t like to progress – unless you use gold and throw money at WG.

      • Too dumb to grind free exp on tanks you like? Too dumb to grind free exp to avoid stock grind? Go play tetris.

  37. So much Russian bias in that WT tech tree? T-54 as top tier while german only got Panther II. gg gaijin.

  38. Actually I really like the opportunity to try all the panzer variants. I do not see any problem with WT german tank tree. When WoT started the tank trees were also semi-crap…so lets not be unfair and lets give a fair shot to WT.

    WoT has more than 2 years lead so it is normal that the tank trees have more different stuff, although a lot of stuff is completely made up and as we know the balance between OP tanks and the rest is bad. It is sad that only 4 or 5 tank types are used for the competitions…it speaks volumes about the balance of WoT.

    I really love WoT but I am very interested in WT tanks. And this german tech tree is very interesting for me. So, WT keep up the good work..:)

  39. Playing WOT and WT and although WT has a much better and nicer engine, superior models, sounds, cockpit view, etc BUT gameplay AND playerbase is seriously lacking. Arcade mode (garage battle) gets old after a week or two, Historical Battles / FRB takes too much time with very little action (and/or fighting vs bots). Tech trees are not diverse enough, the fun and motivation factor is seriously lacking if you focus on playing just one nation.

    Apart from the nice graphics and animations, I didn’t see anything in WT Tanks that would drastically change the above, and planes vs tanks will be really hard to balance – so it offers no real threat to WOT.

    But at least now WOT has some kind of competitor in the tank game market…

    • Competition is very important. Ever since WT entered the playing field, WG has been more serious and been rolling out features faster.

      Hopefully everyone will gain from the new status-quo.

        • So having to switch from World of Tanks, where I’ve wasted countless hours and $$$ grinding out and collecting tanks (I know some hardcore players have spent $100-1000 on their account, especially if they want all the premium tanks), to War Thunder because nobody plays World of Tanks anymore in favor of the far far superior WT Ground Forces (just look at the graphics), I have to wait 10 min queues for a WoT game, and Serb says is shutting down the game in a few weeks because there are no more players and the company cannot pay server costs anymore, …

          is somehow ME WINNING???????????????????????????????

          • The fuck logic…
            Call of Duty had worse graphics then Battlefield, yet has greater success then the vast majority of Hollywood blockbusters…. combined….

            War Thunder and WoT ARE VERY DIFFERENT… why cant we enjoy both?

            No one stopped liked and playing counter Strike just because Battlefield and CoD exist. No one stopped playing Men of War just because Starcraft 2 came to be. The world does not work like that.

  40. I find it ridiculous people criticize WoT because it’s not historical enough, and glorify WT because it’s more historical.

    Both are GAMES. When it comes to GAMES, the most FUN game wins.

    Maybe you should do reviews of military simulators instead. I’m here to play the GAME.

    • Bonus points for crying “not historical!!!!!!!111111″ and “add second german td branch ffs!!!!!!!!111111″ at the same time. Makes you wonder just how many idiots and hypocrites are out there.

  41. SS, I really expected a bit more tolerance for the fundamental differences between the two games. I play WoT for Tanks and WT for Planes right now, but what you can see even from only these things is the following:

    -WoT clearly tends to combine several vehicle variants into one vehicle, most of all tanks that got upgunned in their service life (Pz III, Pz IV) or had different versions for other reasons (KV-2 with experimental 107mm ZiS-6). People dont mind that since they can take only one vehicle per match anyway so redundancy would only stand in the way.
    -WT takes the opposite approach of taking a single vehicle series and taking each major version as its own researchable vehicle. Good example is the Bf109 series. There is no notable difference between the Bf109 F4/trop and the normal Bf109 F4. There are tons of planes like that, being essentially redundant. But on the other hand WT uses a garage system for arcade battles giving you the possibility to use several planes in the same match, and having redundant planes enables you to choose line-ups with 3 nearly identical Bf109s. Same plan with the tanks. Why take one Tiger II if you can take two with only the turret being slightly different?

    Also a few nitpicks:

    -You mentioned the Ferdinand and the Elefant being basically the same vehicle except for the bow MG in the later Elefant.
    Apart from the redundancy stuff, the Elefant also had a commanders copula added, which was identical to that of the StuG III because the Ferdinand had very little in terms of observation devices and someone somewhere deduced that those things were knocked out because of being basically blind.

    -Panzer III Ausf N being useless due to mounting a short-barreled 7.5cm L/24 gun in a Tank game?
    *cough* Panzer III in WoT also has that gun as an option *cough* Shermans, Pz IV, KV-2, Cruiser II, SU-152 and so on also use HE guns in WoT most of the time *cough*
    That aside, when flying in WT I noticed a few different kinds of ground targets, granted, there are mostly tanks and armored cars if you go by numbers, where AP shells would clearly be more useful against, but come to think of it, the british noted that it was kinda hard to take out field guns (such as HOWITZERS (or formally called ARTILLERY)) and PILLBOXES without proper HE shells, therefore the british invented the CS versions of their tanks mounting howitzers instead of AT guns. Same with the short 7.5cm gun on the german late Pz III or early Pz IV, this gun was (and probably is ingame) supposed to take out pillboxes and field guns, essentially soft targets.

    -I dont think I need to make a comment about the tech tree development. Its hardly finished, more like anything but finished.

    Take this as some serious and constructive criticism as it is meant that way, but I couldnt just idly stand by as you smashed a game for the things it actually did on purpose or stuff WoT also does to even larger scale (like derp guns), and you cant just compare apples with bananas and then complain that apples taste like apples.

    • Totally agree with what you said there, WT has a completely different mission style to WoT. All of Wot games are basicly a straight up brawl with capture points. Although the beta footage for WT has capture points its more of a conquest style of play (from the battlefield series), and I would bet my left testie that it’ll be only one of many game modes. After all the other game mode is all about destroying ground targets like builder said where short barrelled guns designed to fire HE rounds will excel where high velocity AT guns will fail.

      Before I get flamed as a gaijin fanboy let me just state that I play both WT and WoT. They both have issues, they both are really good games, in fact I tend to play WOT more. However you can hardly comment on a tank tree when you are completely oblivious to how the progression in WT works, much less its game play in comparison to WoT. It must also be said that in almost every respect WT blows WoW out of the water even before the WT open beta started on a game play standpoint, let alone visually.

  42. I was not playing WT – but listened to others enough to pick some crucial differences.

    Frank, you made (again) a mistake of commenting on what you are not expert of.
    You assumed that WT has similar model of grinding like WoT – it has not.

    You don’t have to grind through every tank. And you don’t grind guns, engines tracks and the rest of stuff on each tank.

    So having 5 Pz III variant is like having 6-7 different things to unlock to elite Pz III in WoT.
    I have no idea if it WT tree will work well, but making a conclusions based on wrong assumptions, because you never played WT makes you look bad, not WT.

  43. “World of Tanks comes clearly ahead when it comes to tree composition.”

    Yeah, a boring tech tree full of unbalanced paper project ( some of them clearly invented by WG ) is much better.

    “I am sure SerB must be laughing his ass off right now.”

    this autistic fatass is the biggest incompetent in the whole video game world. nothing to laugh, IMO.

    • I second this.

      SerB is a moron… An idiot who is not even any good at his own game, who trolls people for a living.

      People are taking the piss out of a tech tree that is not even finished, while this game is full of bullshit tanks that never saw the light of day, and make all of the real tanks that we know look like garbage.

      You guys actually want the Maus in WT??? really…. it may have been made, but it was in no way fit for any war, have fun trying to drive around at 5 kmh…

      But you know, I am not going to get my hopes up with WT tanks actually being good and making any logical sense.. I gave up expecting anything made by Russians to ever make sense.

      I play WoT for the free, and just want to blow stuff up in a tank, as fun as this game can be some times, most of the time it disappoints me and I don’t have any hope it will improve.

      Tanks blowing up when bumped into by another tank… hahahaha go to bed WG you’re drunk.

    • Unbalanced paper projects? Like what?

      If there’s one particular thing that WoT probably will have over WT, its balancing [though balance isn't a very high priority for WT to begin with].

      The T-54 may only have the D10T, but in a “realistic” setting like WT, its easily going to be the best medium tank in the game. And good luck trying to destroy an IS-4 with virtually anything beyond a ground-attack aircraft.

  44. IS-4 as top russian heavy. Im not surprised. People do know that tank is almost invulnerable to all the tank guns that are going to be in the game?

    Even with the D-25t, its original gun, its still OP as fuck. The armour is just too high for it to be balanced. Even the JT will have troubles with it if they decide to go with the historical 12.8 penetration (wich was similar to the long 8.8, wich in time is similar to the D-25T.)

    So yeah, you will have a tank that is nigh-invulnerable to most guns on the game. congrats.

    Lets not even talk about T-54 year 49. The infamous T-54 with 240mm effective frontal armour, in a game where normalization is not mentioned.

    Good luck killing those things!

  45. This rant is pointless. War Thunder has a completely different approach to researching new vehicles, so complaining about several Pz III models in the tree is dumb.
    First of all – every vehicle in WT has one setup. And that’s it. You have one gun, one engine, one hull, one turret – THAT’s IT! That’s why there are two Kingtigers in the tree – because there is no other way to represent them. No turret upgrade to unlock, like in WoT. It is possible both KT models will in fact be a single unlock.
    Case two – reaching new level in WT always unlocks several vehicles. Just like with planes – e.g. imagine reaching level 5 and unlocking two StuG models, some Pz III and some Pz IV. AT THE SAME TIME.
    Case three – sometimes a single unlock in the tree contains, in fact, several vehicles. For example – you unlock some Pz III and get (simultanously) Pz III L, Pz III J and Pz III M.
    There are also multiple diferrences in buying vehicles, crew training etc. All of these are DIFFERENT from WoT. It is utterly POINTLESS to compare them in the way you did, SS. Especially before you can actually see how the tree will work in a game, not on some drawing.

  46. I guess 90% of the US tech trees is going to be filled by all sort of M4, M3/M5 variants lol

  47. maybe because of SS yourself never play WT before,it is their style,u can check on their plane tech tree,u can get 3 F86 Sabre if u have the credits,with 3 different loadout,so maybe because of this,they make it same with the tank

  48. Yeah, they should act like WG. witch adds 20 ridiculus never-ever existed blueprint vehicles in every patch.

    I mean, its obvious that the trees have some issues, but at least they seem to be historically accurate.

    And yet, adding 2 or 3 almost identical variants of the same plane is common in WT, like the p39′s, the Yers, The Peshkas, the Bf109F4′s, etc.

    Also, notice that this game should have been in closed beta, but it will probably get to open beta directly, due to massive whine.
    WoWp’s tech trees were (and still are) even worse than that :)

  49. “why split the Tiger II into the Porsche turret and Henschel turret versions? Apart from the nasty shot trap, those vehicles were identical” The turret front is very different. The regular Tiger II had a vertical turret front of 180mm @9° while the Porsche was curved of only 110mm.

    “Why are Elefant and Ferdinand two different vehicles? There were almost no differences between them, apart from one having a bow machinegun” It introduced a small weak spot in the front upper hull. It also added a little cupola. Plus the Ferdinand did use APCR for a short time while the Elefant never did.

  50. I think i will play that game both wot and wt
    If you want more realism with badass graphic go with wt
    If you want more arcade and more serB game go with wot
    But i think wt still alpha………

  51. The Russian tree is so op when compared with German one. T-54 lol IS-3 and IS-4 lol. What is gaijin thinking? Is there even a tank in German that can pen IS-4 armor?

  52. “I will not be commenting on War Thunder planes, as I didn’t play them nearly enough”
    I take from that, that you played WT at least a bit, Silentstalker. If so, then you should know how does it work. There are quite few planes that exist in few virtually identical variants (P-51, P-47, P-39, P-63, F-86, Bf-109 F-4, Me-410, LaGG-3, La-5, La-7, Wellington, S.79, Ki-61, Ki-45 to name a few). Knowing that, and considering Gaijin’s “more historical” approach, you couldn’t expect tank trees to be much different to what was presented tody. In other words – this is exactly what I expected. Case of Panther F, Panther II and KwK 46 KT is in fact peculiar at first glance, but if you consider that Gaijin is actually lifting the “no prototype” rule in order to make top of the German trees more compatitive and balanced when facing other countries with post-war equipment – which is visible in Luftwaffe release tree too, which includes HG versions of Me262 and even Horten flying wing. In that light addition of aforementioned tanks is actually quite reasonable – as (at least the Panters) they were actually developed and scheduled to enter production (Panther F). The lack of machine gun on Ferdinand and it’s presence on Elefant is quite meaningful here too, as machine guns are going to be useable in WT (makeshift AA weapon and usage against lightly armoured vehicles such as halftracks.
    “World of Tanks comes clearly ahead when it comes to tree composition.” Why? Because is just stuffs it’s tech trees with every single paper tank they can find, no matter if that project was actually sensible in any way? I tend to disagree – it isn’t good composition, it’s just overpopulating trees and coming up with some stupid or meaningless prototypes in order to fulfill that stupid, artificial goal of WoT having x hundred of playable tanks.
    No SS, in my opinion, WT trees are exactly what they were suppoesed to be. I even dare to say that the layout is very well thought through. Besides, you seem to forget one thing: These are PRELIMINARY tank trees – they are expected, supposed and probably due to be changed. Just you wait.

  53. I still don’t understand why people go play a computer game, only to endlessly rage about “historical realism”.

    You can always join an army. Western countries pay well for soldiers these days. I know I sound like SerB now, but that’s because he’s also intelligent. I don’t hear Mighty Jingles playing paintball (or whatever it is) and constantly complaining about realism.

    Let’s look at chess. It’s a strategy game with cavalry, chariots/cannons (depending on the era), kings, melee foot soldiers, bowmen/crossbowmen and generals (for some reason called “queens” in modern chess). And people play chess without constantly making stupid comments like “how come cavalry can jump and make an “L” move over infantry, that’s so unrealistic, no one can jump that high and far!”.

    I think that’s because chess is overall played by more intelligent people, and also, adults (mentally) who understand they are playing a game.

  54. im not playing WT.. mostly because the “pay-to-win” is very strong on that one

    sorry, but ill stick with SerB’s game with all its upside downs too, plus i already have about $200 invested in there with the premium tanks and premium time, not that i ever needed it from the start to actually play, but its nice to have the extra earnings in experience and credits, plus all i want is to play tanks, i dont care about omg planes, infantry, random explosions! WoT was the first Tank MMO and it had terrible times, but also good ones too, whist WT so far manages its cash-grabbing agenda.. quite aggressive. and im still unconvinced how will planes and tanks together can be.. balanced at all

    • …Well, from the gameplay seen the air will be supporting the ground, who will be completing the objectives like holding and capping bases. You also can’t see any markers of enemy ground forces in the air.

      I agree with you on the p2w. From what I’ve heard of WT’s metagame and economy, it’s a mess. Say what you want about WoT’s gameplay, it has one of the most progressive f2p models around.

  55. lol so many idiots here especially SS, as u mentioned urself SS u didnt play WT planes so u obviously have no clue as to wtf ur talking bout. WT game mode has u select a lineup of tanks hence there is different versions of the same tank, this aint wot random battles.

    Gaijin also wants to keep it as historically accurate as possible instead of filling up their trees with paper tanks or prototypes that never saw combat.

    Lastly this is a prelim tech tree there will be more tanks added in the future so u should hold ur shit in mouth SS.

    • actually what they said in the stream, that is what they aim for when they are out of beta, but as usual things change all the time.

      The thing people forget is that all the russian heavy tanks will use there reall gun, that means for IS3 and IS4 -> D25T. Have fun trying to penetrate a KT frontally with that. :P

    • Historical accuracy, you say. Can you tell me what battles Panther F/Panther II participated in?

      • If we talk about historical accuracy, there is no need to actually pen KT armor. Those big 122 and 155 guns will kill the crew inside on impact.

      • notice the wording historically accurate as possible, obviously its not gonna be 100% after all its a game…

  56. Not to mention the amount of butthurt comments im reading, really, where did all this WT/WG fanboys came from?

    • They’ve always been here, it’s just they’ve never really been given an excuse to fight.

  57. Now everyone will stop complaining to Wargaming about copy-paste tanks in WoT, because they will think of all the War Thunder players and be thankful they aren’t them.

  58. Since wt is about module/crew damage instead of hp, I want to see how they handle historical/realistic modes; will tracks and engines somehow be invincible, will you have to sit in place for minutes repairing or be stuck as a pillbox, what happens when your driver dies, etc… Also, how is crew training split, driver as main and rest of crew as secondary like the gunners for bombers?

  59. Gaijin is not better by any means then WG. The same soviet bastards with the same russian bias and a little more greed. But War Thunder tank gameplay definitely worth a try – don’t bury it prematurely. Yes, tech tree contains less tanks, but at least most of them actually fighted in WWII. No fantasy prototypes with fantasy stats here, and I do not miss them at all. And there is a chance that Pz.III will not be a ridiculously weak scout tank with completely useless gun as in WoT, for example.

  60. Sorry but even a little PzIII in WT is much more awesome than a E100 in WoT´s fucking antique engine.

  61. The only real progress in WoT is filling up the tech trees – WOW !

    We can still hear lawnmower instead of tank engines….

    • War Thunder is more realistic.

      Already aircraft engines all have a different sound like their guns and cannons.

  62. And for gameplay … WoT never had a real gameplay design, its just 15vs15 death match.

  63. Simply put; who the fuck gives a flying fuck about which fuck makes the fucking game? Sure SerB can be an ass, we know that by now. Don’t like WoT? Play WT. Don’t like WT? Play WoT. Don’t like any of the two games? Then why are you here on this blog about World of fucking tanks!?

    Jeez this comment section is so much butt hurt.

    • How to generate site traffic on FTR:

      1a)EE posts something that challenges Wehrboo’s belief of superior German machines.
      b) Stalin inscriptions.
      c) Post something about WT.
      2) Wehrboos rage / Stalin, nuff said / WT/WoT fanbois fight
      3) ???
      4) Profit

      Guaranteed way to get 100 comments within the hour.

    • Dude, these are serious problems. What if I can’t decide what game to play!? Then I actually have to READ a BOOK!

      You need to start recognizing real problems (like deciding whether WoT or WT is better) and stop dealing with those nonsense “children starving in Africa and car bombs in the Middle East” problems.

    • So many butthurt WT fanboys too. It’s so funny watching them duke it out.

      Meanwhile I’ll be trying out both games. WT’s tanks haven’t blown me away, unlike some people. The graphics mean shit to me when I’m going to be running it on low anyway, and the gameplay doesn’t seem that groundbreaking honestly, aside from being more “realistic.” Still it’s free, and as long as WG and Gaijin are competing the only winners are us.

      • “The graphics mean shit to me when I’m going to be running it on low anyway..”

        i wish i can +1 you


  65. SS, since you admitted you haven’t player WT nearly enough to understand it, I suggest that you stop making these kind of posts

    as someone already noted the similar tanks may have the same tier as many of the planes do
    they did that to allow you to have multiple versions of the same plane in arcade battles if someone so wishes

    • From your comment i know that you have played WT before, but you have never played the tank, haven`t you? since it`s not released yet.
      SS is saying the truth anyway, even if you are a big fan of WT you might find that the tech tree is ridiculous.
      Admit it….just admit it

      • he bases his arguments on guesses and not facts
        I didn’t played WT’s ground forced but neither did he; there’s also huge differences on how Gaijin does upgrades to units vs how WG does it

        as for me being a WT fan .. you’re just plain wrong
        I give a fuck about it, I didn’t even played it for a very very long time, if I recall it was around 1.29 when pay2win became unbearable
        they introduced that fucking back-up plane token that allows you to buy yourself a copy of any plane in arcade battles
        Gaijin are greedy morons who will run WT into the ground if they don’t / won’t realize the mistakes they’re making

    • So why not let you buy multiple copies of the same vehicle instead of padding tech trees with vehicles that have superficial differences?

  66. You don’t understand fucking ANYTHING about warthunder or it’s leveling system, do you?


    Here is your Panther F

    Der „PANTHER“ Ausführung F sollte zu Beginn des Jahres 1945 in Serienfertigung gehen. Aufgrund der geschichtlichen Ereignisse kam es nicht mehr dazu, jedoch baute DAIMLER-BENZ einige Panzerwannen (Zirka 8 Stück). Auch wurden einige Prototypentürme gebaut (Zirka 2 Stück). Zu Erprobungszwecken setzte man einen „SCHMALTURM“ auf die Wanne des „PANTHER“ Ausführung G (Siehe obige Bilder). Heute kann ein verbliebener Turm beim Royal Amored Corps Center in Bovington , England besichtigt werden.

    • Actually you can unlock an artillery calldown, which is more accurate than WoT arty. I would rather have SPGs in the game as long as they play as realistically as bombers do for their corresponding game modes.

      Teammates can spot an enemy, which gives coordinates to the friendly SPGs. Then they adjust the angles of their gun, fire, and you can hold “U” to enjoy watching your shell blow some tracks.

  68. The number of comments on this topic just show how much in decline WOT is. Despite a new test patch being up, with new tanks, the 8.9 topics can barely make 60+ comments while there are 260+ and climbing comments here. People just don’t care about WOT anymore, now that there’s a new kid on the block that is superior in everywhere (just look at War Thunder graphics). My prediction is that 1 month after PS4 and WT Ground Forces are released, World of Tanks will be dead – just a few hundred die hard fanboys mooching around on the servers cos they sunk thousands of euros in the game and can’t let go, and Wargaming will be filing for bankruptcy.

    The King is dead (World of Tanks). Long live the new king (War Thunder) of tank sims!

  69. thing is, that from a bystander pont of view… Warthunder “tech tree” looks unappealing to the regular player, because the first thing theyll think is “oh, so i gotta grind around seven sherman tanks?” “and a ton of pz3?”

    only after reading whats it about you can get the idea how the grind is done by nation and not by individual tanks, still, since most people go by the first impression looks, the tech tree looks like a messed up grindfest and most of the newcomers will simply remain unconvinced, i hope WT devs notice this and start making the nation trees more appaling to the eye.

    No wonder why SerB is laughing its ass right now

    • And you need to buy those 5 Pz III for pull price before you can play something further down the line.

  70. I play WoT and Wt and i have to say that both games will offer a different but similar gameplay at the same time. Everybody who says that one of these games i going to die is in my oppinion not the brightest. WT tanks is an alpha and thus not showing a final product. WoT on the other hand is already “final” ( as they are changing many things). Both games can improve or screw up. Imho the competion WT adds is a good thing for now on.
    But the shitstorm has already begun. Now it’s like android vs apple all over again :)

  71. Dude, play the planes, then you will learn the reasoning behind the “same vehicles” ordeal.

    Now, warning, I am not a WT fanboy. I play both WT and WoT happily. But seriously, play the game before you make rather unamusing comments.

    First, many of the planes are also very similar, just with soft stats that have been changed, or looks. The Japanese have four Zeroes from tier 7 to 10 that are basically the same. The BF 109s are very similar, as with the Spitfires. Having many of the same vehicle is nothing new to Gaijin, yet planes still work fine, so why not tanks?

    In a game with (more) realistic combat, where one penetration can make the kill, all those “identical vehicles” would be viable for one tier displacements. The Tiger II P would have a significant disadvantage over the Tiger II H, so it would be one or two tiers lower. Also notice how some of the Pz IIIs and IVs have skirts? Those are also tier-influencing advantages. The 75mm howitzer is a problem though….unless there are ground targets like Anti-tank guns or AA guns to kill.

    Also, the gameplay is still in closed Beta. It is bound to change. Vehicle balancing is bound to change as well. I agree with you on some things, but please play WT planes before you make a rant on the tanks. When you are hating the planes enough that you want to chop fingers off, THEN you have a reason to rant.

    • Red, I’ve played WT a few times and the one advantage I saw was less lag, the gameplay in WT is very different from WoT as well as the way the tech tree works, WT emphasizes garage battles and stats don’t seem to matter there, am I right in my observations? Also, since you seem to have knowledge in WT I’d like to ask is it correct that you can’t “sell” your plane or tank once you bought it in WT?

    • @Red Sorry, WT doesn`t let me play it, everytime i update it, it always damage my Hard Disk
      *Unlogic reason why i hate War Thunder

  72. I wish World of Tanks had the same grinding system as War thunder LOL, i wouldn’t mind if they chucked 5 PZ 4s in the game to grind through, because they have just different guns,

  73. >Bashes a game without having ever played any of it.

    A++ you are, FTR must be some kind of wargaming apologizeation station now.

    • FTR is far from a WG apologizeation station. If it was, we wouldn’t be hearing about how SerB is an asshole and SS wouldn’t be bashing how WG fails at marketing.

      • I’ll also add what another person said above me:

        “thing is, that from a bystander pont of view… Warthunder “tech tree” looks unappealing to the regular player, because the first thing theyll think is “oh, so i gotta grind around seven sherman tanks?” “and a ton of pz3?”

        only after reading whats it about you can get the idea how the grind is done by nation and not by individual tanks, still, since most people go by the first impression looks, the tech tree looks like a messed up grindfest and most of the newcomers will simply remain unconvinced, i hope WT devs notice this and start making the nation trees more appaling to the eye.”

  74. Can hardly wait for the USA tank tech tree for WT then.

    We’ll get at least 10 variations of the M4! LOL

  75. 1st:

    Lets just wait and see what happens. Look at what WOT was like at this stage in development (about a month before release)

    On the Panzer III Ausf N. THe L/24 had HEAT rounds, so is more than likely better than the 50mm L/60. And as WT doesn’t do the whole gold ammo thing…

  76. the copy and paste tanks is part of war thunder. you go up a rank and get marginal improvement in certain vehicles, every tree has em. they’re bloody fillers, but meh, least no frankentanks like the E-100 series

    and no Maus as it would be a plane magnet and would just be mean to the german tankers, hence fake KT

  77. If you had played War Thunder you wouldn’t be writing this.

    The way you progress through the tiers in WT doesn’t require you to “grind” anything except what you want to be driving/piloting. The only thing you have to do is buy a vehicle to gain access to the next in line. Though if they are on the same line and share tiers you only have to buy the 1st one to get past the entire bunch.
    So in the case of WT, more is always better even if they are almost identical. Because if you don’t want to drive/pilot them, you don’t have to to progress. The only progress requirements are: 1. Play the nation you want to progress through. 2. Earn in game credits. 3. Buy the vehicles up to the one you want, but don’t drive them if you don’t want to.

    The way they are starting off with a lot of the same base tank models is that they are aiming for more variants (just like with the planes) and once they make one it’s easier to make the variants. So you have to see this tech tree as a slice of what is going to be the final tree (after beta and all the patches). That’s the way Gaijin has always done it. If you ask me, that’s the preferred way seeing as you don’t have to “grind through” vehicles like in WoT. That way you can tier everything in detail and have different variants in different scenarios just the way they were deployed (when, where and what configuration) historically.

  78. No. This German tree is full of fail and I really dislike it. The Soviet one has its issues like this too (perhaps even more).
    In some cases Yes I agree with you. But I do understand that WT has their own way of planning out the game… IE just re hashes there planes method but for tanks. In any case I find the tree just painfully “odd” and lacking creativity. But time will tell.

  79. On the Part why Ferdi and Elefant its exactly what you said one of them has a machinegun in WT you will be able to shoot with the Machineguns to.
    For my part i really like the WT trees and if its just because you aren`t limited on One tank, fuck that i can take 3 Pz III`s doesnt matter to me if they are nearly identical.
    Ofcourse there are some things i dont understand but its Beta and WT is not WoT.

        • The shield on the gun was not a piece, which was mounted in the factory.

          It was an additional piece of armour, which was added after analyzing first losses. It was then build in the factory an sent to all brigades with Ferdinand/Elefant to atach it to the gun

  80. The only thing i like…is both games will become the best game in the world, since they are competing each other

  81. Seriously, who cares what tree that put up? Is it any better then making up tanks or having ‘blueprint only” tanks?

    The real test as always, is in gameplay. Gee SS any more of a WoT fanboi and id think you where SerB

  82. The main problem I have with WT is the hypocrisy. After all the boasts of “truly historically accuracy” they need to use conceptual and unfinished prototypes to top off the medium and heavy lines?

    Yes, it’s exactly the reaction over in the Korean community: Love live Hypocritical Gaijin!

  83. Stug getting stuck on a rock…how about closed beta WoT where I saw flying bushes and tanks on houses? Its a closed beta and it looks damn great. Unlike warshitgaming, these guys like to release small patches to repair the bugs. Warshitgaming doesn’t. Plus no shitty spot system.

      • People say all the time but they does not care. Thats why we get only maps and taks with every goddamn update but no gameplay improvements since closed beta.

    • The WT Stug did not get stuck on a rock it flipped over on its roof when it hit a rock which is total BS physics. It was probably a stunt to show that WT had modeled the underside of the Stug to poke at WG. It worked SerB commented the next day that WG were going to have flipping tanks and flying turrets. They are most likley going to have a special damage model team for tanks burning out and exploding over time rather than the bang you are dead now burn for five seconds.

      Also the dynamics were the same for all the tanks giving no sense of the differnce in handling between a pzIII and a KV–1. This is a pre beta demo running on a handfull of PCs on a network on a part of a single map so making real comparisons is mostly guesswork. But if it ups everyones game so that players benefit and fanboys get butthurt it cannot be all bad.

  84. i bet its already said but for me: gameplay >>>>> tank tree composition
    so did your post help me to judge wt? not really.

  85. so what you wot fanboy? I dont mind if there are 400 or 50 tanks. No boring low and 10 tier tanks. No prototypes. What is there not to like? Something for every player. Wot will be a living museum of all tanks ever draw on paper and this game will be just about ww2 tanks. I myself play only Tiger H in wot and i like 5-7 battles the most. Not just im top tier there but cause of ww2 feeling. Im really looking forward for tanks in War Thunder. I tried planes but i didnt like it. As well as i didnt like world of planes.

  86. Don’t forget guys, T-54 in real life had only 100mm front armour, it’s a type 59 armour speaking. Only one or a few prototypes had 120mm so fighting it might not be all doom and gloom. Still, the the IS-4 shouldn’t be penetrated by the KT upper plate speaking, no matter what they do, that would just be historically inaccurate bullshit. The KT is still no match for the IS-4 and the panther 2 is still no match for the T-54 and trying to balance them is quite BS…

    • Why eveyone thinks that the KT and the panther 2 will be tier 20? Stop comparing them to each other FFS. In planes german line stops at tier 19 with the ME262 and well it really should be tier 18.

  87. “Still, I was full of anticipation. Well, that is, until today. Gaijin recently released the German and Soviet tank tree and my reaction was roughly: “What the fuck is this shit?!”

    This is as far as i read this post. You said you dont palyed WT before and you clearly have no experience how tiers and “identical” planes work there so stop writing bullshit. And yes there are differences between then and yes it matters. Dont belive it? Go play it than.

    • AKA

      You must not have any excitement or expectations whatsoever when you look at WT’s tech trees and the tier advancement.

  88. I wish ppl stop comparing 2 totally different games only because both have tanks, They nothing alike and dont even pretend to be

  89. lol what is funny is when Wowp came out in beta everyone one that plays Warthunder was like “Wowp is shit so much shit graphics suck that means the game sucks” So now when we judge the tanks they get all defensive and say the tanks haven’t been developed for a long time.

    • In wowp was not just the graphics that suck. And that was on opinions that actually played the damn game. Did you actually palyed WT ground forces yet? No? Well duh.

  90. Those are just release trees. WG had almost 3 years to get their trees up and ready.

    Also they need similar tanks because of the way the whole system works in WT.

    The whole article reads a little butthurt to be hones. WT is way ahead in technical terms and the flying part is already better in every aspect, meaning WG will have a huge problem if gaijin suceeds in gameplay as well.

  91. wow so much moaning in the beginning, who gives a fucking poop, watch WoT fail implementing even more blueprints and nasty shit by some belorussian got in his head

  92. I dont get it what is wrong with a little competionion for WoT?? we players can only win on it. Fanboys always gonna hate other game as it was with every two similar games

  93. SilentStalker, this article shows how soft-headed and hypocritical you are.

    You always rage about WG fails and rigging, yet now you behave like a dumb WG-fanboy.

    The game isn’t out yet, and this is only a preliminary tech tree, it will surely change in the future.

    At least wait until open beta than start to criticize the game.

    And if you don’t like WT go back to your paper-tanks.

  94. Needs MOAR knee-jerk loldrama and fanboi raeg in comments.

    Also pretty sure this one broke the previous record in “most comments in least time”, handily.

    • Well this is what happeneds when you write about something you have no idea how it works. Techtrees and leveling works a little differentily in WT rendering this whole article into total bullshit.

  95. How about you play the fucking game for 2 minutes before spitting out stupid bullshit? WT’s cut-off date is 1953 (thus the T-54, migs and sabres in planes mode, et cetera)

    I’ll tell you a secret: garage battles (you know, those promised and never delivered to wot?), they are the standard WT gamemode, thus if you love stugs you can go to battle with 4 different stugs and live happily.

    Another secret, to everyone who’s going retarded on the physics: every single gameplay video has shown the ARCADE mode, which tends to be unrealistic and arcadey (like wot). There will also be historical battles with proper physics and divided by nation (another thing promised by WG and never delivered), and if they follow the plane modes there will also be full real battles (which is basically simulator mode)

    If you played planes for 5 seconds you would know all of this.

  96. WT fanboys butthurt so much – like they were just assraped by a donkey. Just becouse someone doesn’t like how ze tech trees look like.


    …oh wait – it’s SS we’re talking about, he’s no wg fanboy…


    • It’s because his two stupid arguments were retarded:
      1. LEL PHYSICS ARE WONKY LUKS LIEK SHITRIM (only arcade mode shown, which will be arcadier than wot probably as there are 2 way more realistic modes…)
      2. SO MANY VARIANTS, WHY ARE THEY NOT THE SAME TANK?! I WANT THEM DUMBED DOWN TO ONE SINGLE TANK WITH SHITTY UPGRADES! (garage battles, also those were real variants, a real history nut would love to have every single real variant with their little unique differences instead of Pimp My Tank with random parts. For example, I still miss Elefant and different pzIV/pzIII versions in wot, just to name a few…)

    • It is not abot not liking it is abot how disinformed and retarded certain persons are. Making long term conclusions on badly understood facts.

  97. That is exactly like war thunder planes and that is GOOD THING. No tech tree full of stupid Tigers with 88 L/71 no idiotic stugs with 75 L/70. Those different variants of tanks are really awesome thing. All of us do not want game full of imagination tanks and paper tanks.

    Realism and historical accuracy was what WoT was first about then it got into wrong track with stupid unhistorical balancing (they could balance things historically). WoT has nothing to do with historical accuracy nothing and it has hitpoint system nothing to do with real life either. It’s an arcade game that has nothing to do with historical accuracy, war thunder is different story and that is the reason people play it.

  98. And the shitstorm of WT acolytes defending their game began.
    1.WT and WoT are 2 different games(1 sim, 1 arcade) and they’re compared only because WT is the only game atm, except WoT, that has tanks in a PvP battle model.
    2.Frank just says his subjective opinion, as a hard WoT player, about that game.

    If I were a hard WoT player, not knowing anything about WT and I wanted to check their tanks I’d had the same opinion about it, because I’m used with WoT’s gameplay style, with it’s grinding style, with it’s tiered battle style and with it’s prototype/made-up realistic tanks to fill the gaps in order to make a complete branch.

    On the other hand, if I was a WoT player dissapointed by it because of it’s arcadeish playstyle and because it contains tanks that didn’t existed IRL and go to check WT’s tanks I’d remain there enjoying that.Sadly, I’m not such a person and I’m sticking with WoT

  99. I cant understand both fanboys here:
    1) Yes, SS made a mistake, but he still has a point on the amount of ALMOST identical tanks.
    2) WoT is actually very well balanced. The KT 105 L68 vs IS-4 does not look good, nor is it historical.
    3) WOT WAS NEVER about realism or Historical accuracy. NEVER.
    4) Some people like me like prototypes/unused tanks and even most of the blueprint vehicles and upgrades.