Building a tier X Hellcat: Waffentrager Panther

Being the classical late WWII German swiss-knife tank, the Panther had many planned evolutions.One of the most interesting and obscure of those was its Waffentrager (gun carrier) configuration.

Early studies were derived from an evolution of the Pz Sfl IV C, with a derived platform using Panther components:

As shown by this specifications, a Panther based Waffentrager armed with a 8.8cm FLAK 41 and most of its armor stripped out would weigh only 31 tons.
From this start Krupp went ahead with draft W1734, using a SFH43 heavy howitzer with -8 gun depression and the estimated weight rose to 34 tons, provided the apparatus for separating the gun from the carrier was not included in the chassis.

In the end, a wooden model was created, with an open top rotating platform and a gun shield:

The model shows a 128mm L/55 but the same platform was planned to carry the 15cm SFH 43 plus a 21cm howitzer was planned on 18 march 1944.

The 128mm K43 (analogous to the Pak 44 L/55) woud add approximately 5 tons to the SFH 43 proposal, bringing the weight to 39 tons, still leaving plenty of room for a more powerful cannon as the series tank ended up 45 tons heavy.
There are no details for the 21cm howitzer but two options are likely to have been either the massive 21cm morser 18 (adding almost 7 tons and reaching series Panther weight) or the shorter 18/19 version, which at a modest 9.1 tons it would be almost the same weight as the 128mm L/55, ending with a 39-40 ton tank.

This is of course the historical configuration, but given  the chassis capacity left, a much more extreme design could have been made:

- Panther’s 700HP would have given 15-18 HP/ton, good but not enough to really reach the planned 60km/h.
Using the planned HL 234 with up to 900HP we’d easily reach 20 HP/ton, making the tank pretty agile.

- The 128mm L/55 had a 3 rounds drum loader planned, giving the tank good burst capability, but given chassis capability we could extend it further. The longer 128mm L/61 is estimated to be 2-7 tons heavier, still within chassis limits, although balancing the gun would be a challenge.

- Going into the 15cm class, we could consider a few longer 15cm class cannons, up to L/55. This would bring the chassis weight up to 42 tons and still be acceptable in terms of weight but that would be too long to really balance on a turret, so we could instead consider it’s smaller L/43 brother which at mere half ton more than the 128mm L/55 delivers a 15cm shell at 757 m/s, enough to give out pretty decent penetration.

All in all, the Waffentrager Panther could have been another real German feline from hell: agile like a leopard, with the bite of a lion but the soft skin of a kitten with 30mm maximum armor.

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56 thoughts on “Building a tier X Hellcat: Waffentrager Panther

  1. No need to make it a premium tank… why does everyone want all tanks to be premium anyway?
    There’s enough waffentragers to make 3 full trees, including the 0.8.9 currently in test.

        • They should put the wft pziv to tier 110 and fill the gap with something else, may even put therheinmetall to tier 9, but everything till tier 7 should stay.

    • Yeah, there’s already three German prem TDs, one of which is similar in concept (Dicker Max- good gun, shit armour).

      As I recall, Silentstalker posted an article on a bunch of Waffenträger ages ago, gotta look that up again.

      WTF E100 is a massively retarded concept and is impossible to balance in a way that doesn’t create stagnant gameplay.

  2. why do we have a WG-made-up Tier 10 GW type Waffenträger instead of this?!

    This would be the perfect T10 Waffenträger, whilst having the Pz4 as T9, and it would also make alot more sense than the current WT E100. (what i understand, the concept of WT was to have huge guns on small chassis… Which the ingame WT e100 does not have.This would lead to the assumption that a WT E100 would historically need to mount a karlgeraet, (at least ;) ). To make the unhistorical wg-mockup “slightly” historical.

    I would prefer a huge gun w/o any autoloader on a fast and nimble chassis, over a WT e100 in its current state.

    • Totally agree with you. It´s so sad WG is doing so much shit instead of such more interesting and historical WT-Panther on Tier 10

      • Cause every german T10 has to be a big&easy-to-hit-target with absolutely no camo…
        Even this pretty big Panther-WT would be way smaller than WT E100

        • Actually the WT E-100 has exceptional camo for something so large. The trick is to get full camo skill on the entire crew, a camo net, and sit behind a bush (good luck finding a bush big enough, but a bush and some trees between you and the enemy should suffice).

  3. See, why can’t we have this as the top tier german waffentragger TD? :/ Would be a better transition from the PZ IV at tier IX.

    • The 21cm howitzer is only one of many possible choices and can be ignored if too hard to balance…

  4. So in short, this is essentially the tier 7 gw panther turned into a td. Then I don’t think it will be agile as you advertised

    • Good Power to weight ratio makes a lot of difference plus the platform was designed for 60 kmh

      • Word. GW Panther was (almost) impossible to outmaneuver. It was just as agile as a medium tank.

  5. This vehicle is in every way a more interesting high-tier for the WT line. Ideally it would be tier X, but with stock 88/L71 and a grind through the three main gun options (128mm autoloaded, 150mm, and 210mm mortar)–which would break the model of “tier 10 is elite, stock”.

    In the case of a 210mm, you probably mean the 21 cm Mörser 16 (I don’t see an 18/19 version). It would be a reasonably short barrel, firing 21cm Gr 18 HE (17.35kg explosive) or concrete-penetrating [HEAT?] (11.61kg explosive, 600mm concrete penetration). I’m not sure what the WoT damage would be with those explosive loads, compared to, say, Soviet 152mm benchmarks. Soft stats would be generally terrible (load time, velocity – 393m/s, accuracy, etc.), and I doubt that it could be fired from a fully rotating turret. But as a tier X derp gun? Mother of God!

    Would be fun. Wish WG wasn’t so fixated on huge ahistorical monsters. I wonder if they would be willing to do the WTpanther as an alternate 10–kinda like the Object 140?

    • The morser 18/19 is a czech modernized morser 16…
      That aside, one gun could be grinded on tier X (E-100 does), the 88 L/71 shouldn’t be considered as the 128mm would be stock.

  6. Has anyone asked WG why they made the crappy e100 waffencrapper instead of using planned designs, like this one?
    If not, please add it to the list, Im curious as to what the answer will be if you manage to ask it in a way so you get an answer.

  7. another nice read, and for me i am all for replacing this for the WT E-100. follows better in the whole WT theory. small vehicles with huge guns.