Hello everyone,
Okay, this is something I wanted to post for a while now, after Yuri Pasholok posted two photos on his blog. Those of you, who play Soviet tank destroyers in World of Tanks, might remember the SU-85 and SU-100 elite guns. SU-85 has the 85mm D5S-85BM, while the SU-100 has the D-2-5S? But are they historical?
Yep, they are. Meet SU-85BM and SU-122P.
SU-85BM
As I wrote above, Yuri Pasholok posted this photo on his blog, that sort of “inspired” me to look up some info. There is not that much.
The photo is from January 1944 and it shows nicely this improved SU-85 variant. Based on the data from A.V.Karpenko (I really am not sure how reliable this author is, but it’s enough for start), the BM variant (high power) of the D-5S gun was created by the design bureau of Plant No.9, led by F.F.Petrov. The muzzle velocity of the gun was increased to 900 m/s, leading to 20 percent increase in penetration. The barrel was 1068mm longer than the one of the original D-5S and to compensate for this, the trunnions were pushed back by 80 milimeters. The prototype vehicle (the implementation of this gun into the SU-85) was made by the Uralmash plant in January 1944. It was tested at Gorokhovets proving ground between March and April 1944. It passed the tests, but was never accepted in service because of the appearance of the SU-100 project.
SU-122P
This picture, again posted by Yuri Pasholok, shows the SU-122P being tested in November 1944. Based on this article, SU-122P is a SU-100 variant, equipped with the D-25 gun (ingame D-2-5S is really the same D-25 gun, just with a different breech mechanism). According to the article, the SU-100 could have been ready much earlier than it was (Summer 1944), but the problem was the D-10S 100mm gun development, that got delayed and so measures were taken to compensate, creating the SU-85M vehicle, which was basically a SU-100 hull with an 85mm gun from SU-85. Apart from this stopgap measure, Uralmash also developed a design of their own, the SU-122P, equipped with the powerful 122mm D-25 gun. Most of the components used for this vehicle came from the SU-100 design, but some did from the SU-85. The SU-122P was designed rather quickly, since D-10S and D-25 mounts took the same amount of space inside the vehicle and thus the D-25 was easy to implement.
The works on the prototype started as early as May 1944 and in September, the vehicle underwent factory trials. These trials were successful and after a few weeks, the prototype was sent to the army proving ground at Gorokhovets. There, the vehicle proved itself once again, but despite this success, the order to mass-produce it was not given. The reasons for that were following:
- first of all, the D-25 had 4-5mm lower penetration than the D-10S, although the effect of HE shells was twice as big
- the vehicle could carry only 26 122mm rounds
- the rate of fire was reduced to 3-4 rounds per minute
- the recoil was higher than the one of the D-10S, having negative impact on the suspension, when firing the gun on the move
- the problems with the combat compartment being too cramped were not solved
All this was enough to reject the SU-122P. To makes even worse, there was the deputy commissar of tank development Kotin’s opinion – he distrusted the principle of mounting high caliber guns on the T-34 chassis. And the last thing – the D-25 guns went for the IS-2 production and so it was considered not practical to have two platforms with the same gun.
the first 2 photos are so clear, cant belive they were made in 1944
Photographer didnt drink vodka so his hands were steady.
I wonder how big the camera was.
B/W photos, if done on high quality film or glass negatives can be scanned in some incredible resolutions.
Up to 2000 to 5000 dpi for an at home. Although film scanners in use for commercial applications can go even higher.
Also all of the tanks are not moving which means the photographer can adjust the his settings to get the best possible photo even if it means a long exposure.
Russian (camera) bias.
Russian Camera lens & Scope is old Zeiss stuff, right?
In a way this is German bias.
“- first of all, the D-25 had 4-5mm lower penetration than the D-10S”
Why isnt it reflected ingame?
The D10T in game is nerfed… it had more pen and was a pretty damn accurate gun.
Yup, its not that D-25 is buffed its D10T thats nerfed. D10T was regarded as one of, if not, THE best gun of WW2
You telling me Russian tanks are nerfed in-game? I just wonder if they weren’t :D
Depends on the tank. Some may be buffef, some nerfed.
Ouch… which was buffed? The only candidates i can think out now are KV-1s and IS-3, because they have better guns than in reality… but rest?
Kv-1s, t-28 and maybe some of tge prototypes.
IS-3 could mount bl-9 and m62-t2 irl, and both guns are nerfed in WOT
Most are nerfed.
Look at IS-7. It’s not possible to balance if historical.
D-25T also has much better accuracy IRL and can smash through turret of tiger II…etc.
yeah it sucks, instead of encouraging players to use 100mm gun on SU100 as it was historically, they nerf it so people use that dumb 122mm gun. I still use 100mm, fuck you WG
Except 122mm gun is even more nerfed.
coz russian vehicles?
No, because historically, it was a really really good gun.
Yeah, the problem with WG having decided that nations have to have general traits. Because the first two countries were USSR and Germany, naturally Germany is assigned ‘sniper’ and USSR must then be ‘brawler’ for contrast. So RL accuracy in relation to other tanks in the game isn’t really reflected with most tanks (taking into account the general accuracy nerf that WoT has to reduce engagement ranges).
That and the fact russkies were quite inferior in terms of crew education/training.
“- the vehicle could carry only 26 122mm rounds”
Strange, the in-game version can carry 36 122 mm rounds.
Balance, my dear friend
Some times WG takes into account the amount of ammo a support vehicle can haul.
Example. Grille Asuf M. 18 rounds historically. In game 30.
Grille Asuf M’s were assigned into a group of 6 SPGs along with 2 support Grille Asuf M’s converted to just carry ammo.
6 “Grille” x 18 rounds = 108 rounds + 2 Muntion(support) x 40 rounds = 188.
188 total rounds / 6 “Grille” = 31.3333 repeating.
“The muzzle velocity of the gun was increased to 900 m/s, leading to 20 percent increase in penetration.”
Maybe this is a nit pick but the 85mm increase is more like only 15%.
http://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2013/03/penetration.html
Must suck a lot to be an Su-122 crew member. Anyways it is for the Motherland!!!!!!!!!