The Chieftain as Tier 10

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Hello everyone,

so, I guess you’ve already heard the news, FV215b is considered to be replaced by the Chieftain, at least that’s how Storm wrote it yesterday. However, this info (or speculations about it) is much older. The first time I heard about the plan to put the Chieftain in some form on tier 10 was as early as December 2012. I was on a meeting of the Czech community and Tuccy (back then still just a community organizer or whatever the title was) was talking about the changes to the trees. I took notes in my cellphone of what he was saying (I still have them, he for example mentioned the second French line, little did we know…) and one of the things he said is that the Chieftain would become the British tier 10 heavy tank. The next day, I wrote it on the forums (back then, there was no FTR) and the post got immediately deleted (this was one of the impulses that convinced me I need a platform of my own, so Wargaming can’t come and purge inconvenient info by the way). Next mention about it was from February 2013 and the result was “yea, we thought about that, not in immediate future” – and that was it.

I wrote the above for you to understand that the idea is actually very old and that the Chieftain at some point “fell into the same vaporware hole” as the Sturmtiger, which sort of hints at the fact that implementing the Chieftain is problematic. But, Storm mentioned that the change might come around the end of this year, so hopefully that’s settled.

Which Chieftain?

So, now that this is decided, the real question is – which Chieftain will we see in the game? Originally I thought that there might be like three or four variants to pick from, including the mockups. I was wrong – there are like fifteen (maybe more) various prototypes and proposals, including the pre-production version. The most likely candidate I would say is the “P6″ prototype, that was mentioned in the past in connection with World of Tanks, simply because it stands physically in Bovington and Wargaming has access to it. This prototype was saved by Bovington from scrapping in 2011 and you can read about it here.

Eventspage

This however is by no means the only option. The pre-production Mk.1 was also mentioned as a potential candidate, along with Mk.2 (the first one to see service en masse if I remember correctly)

Chieftain_Mk_II-2

For example, one of the distinctive Chieftains is the “pike nose” Chieftain mock-up (there are proposed characteristics available for it, found in the Swedish documents).

9H93dol

This pike nose variant for example weighed 45,3 tons, was proposed with a 700hp Leyland L60 engine with the maximum speed of 41 km/h. The gun is a “120mm L/55 gyrostabilized cannon”, but we’ll get to that. Anyway, there are options. These data come from the Swedish reports, found on the Chieftain development in Swedish archives.

Characteristics

Now, to understand what the problem with the Chieftain in World of Tanks is, you have to realize that the vehicle is still fairly new. Relatively of course. The production vehicles are from mid 60′s, the various early concepts and such are from 1960 or so onwards. The vehicle also fired shots in anger and some technologies from it are still secret, so it’s not like you can just get all the data on it on the internet.

A good example of this is the tank armor. If you open western books on the Chieftain (for example “Chieftain” by Rob Griffin), the layout is roughly described, but the exact thicknesses of armor of schematics? Nope. I asked around, even at Wargaming and the only “published” armor schematic seems to be from a Russian source (for the Mk.1 variant):

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Alternatively, it’s possible to tap yet again into Swedish archives – this one is for the 1961 sloped nose prototype (courtesy of sp15 from US forums), such a schematic exists for the pike nose prototype as well.

YE9zstU

Third source of accurate info is the real life measurement of course. I can tell you straight away that that already happened. Xlucine did in fact measure the P6 prototype armor thickness for Wargaming with an ultrasound device. I am not at liberty to tell you what exactly were the results without his permission, but I think I can disclose two things:

- the armor of the vehicle was worse than expected and by no means it’s as OP as everyone thinks
- some parts are practically impossible to measure even for a person skilled with the ultrasound (Xlucine is skilled, but the entire process is actually quite complicated, it’s not like you just press a button), at least without some… more invasive measures (obviously out of question).

The same thing applies for the Action X turret by the way – Xlucine did measure it as well, some parts were not measurable, some parts were… disappointing, overall it’s not exactly an option for tier 10 medium, I am fairly certain it won’t happen. Anyway, back to Chieftain. The engines are the variants of the Leyland L60 multifuel engine, tuned to various horsepower, if I recall correctly, the 585 horsepower variant was the earliest with the 750 horsepower variant the latest, there was also a a 650 and 700hp variant. It’s hard to say which one will be picked for the ingame vehicle, depends on the type of course, I’d go with the 650hp variant but that really depends on Wargaming (the Mk.4A 650hp engine was used in Mk.1, 2 and 3 Chieftains). The maximum speed of the early Chieftains according to the AFV handbook was only 40,2 km/h (with the vehicle weighing 50 tons or so, not bad).

Third element of the tank is the firepower – as you can imagine, the firepower of the 120mm L11 is brutal. Firing APDS, HESH and HE rounds, its performance in the game will most likely be heavily rebalanced (as in nerfed) compared to its real life performance. Luckily, the gun has a very nice depression on the Chieftain (-10/+20).

In case you are wondering about the 120mm gun performance, there is a memorandum from 1955, mentioning the defeat of plates of following thickness: APDS – 140mm (60 degrees, 2000 yards), HESH – 150mm (60 degrees, 2000 yards).

In World of Tanks

So, what do you get if you put the elements written above together? Well… hard to say. What I think we will get is basically a lighter and overall less armored (even though some spots are crazy thick) version of the T110 with a more powerful gun, definitely not a brawler, more like a sniper. The mobility is hard to predict, my guess (again, just guessing) is that it will be somewhat worse than the one of the T110 to compensate for the hulldown ability (lower frontal plate is the obvious weakspot). Basically a sniper. This is not bad, unless you go rushing on ahead, it could be a really nice tank.

However, its introduction as a tier 10 vehicle means that (the few that there are) Chieftain fans have most likely to give up their fantasies of having an alternative British “Chieftain” branch (which would be problematic anyway). Naturally, that’s not such a big loss, considering that after the introduction of the Firefly branch, new British regular tanks will have very, VERY low priority in everything and it’s completely possible that the Firefly branch will be the last British regular branch to be introduced… well, ever. But the World of Tanks will still be here for years to come (as long as it is profitable), so who knows?

98 thoughts on “The Chieftain as Tier 10”

  2. This is a more general question, but since in WoT tank fighs happen to unusual close distances, shouldn’t the LFP have a higher effective armor thickness than the UFP? Since the tank guns are higher than the point of connection between LFP and UFP

    I mean for example when 2 tanks are “touching”

      • It’s been a while since this happened to me, but sometimes a heavy would just ram me, and I couldn’t pen the UFP, but could pen the LFP, for example a Maus, in this image, a quick demonstration of what I mean

        http://i.imgur.com/xuvNc9J.jpg

        I mean, is it something that can happen and it’s just me (that hasn’t played much recently) that got the impression it doesn’t happen?

      • BTW, that rises a question: where do shots originate from? There was a statement that from tip of the barrel, but when tanks are facehugging and their barrels sticking through turrets to the other side, while still hitting…? Or, is it different for arcade and for sniper modes?

      • “- the armor of the vehicle was worse than expected and by no means it’s as OP as everyone thinks”
        So those russian schematics have to be wrong or P6 is a lot more different than Mk.1 because if P6 would have armor like on those schematics I dont think it is weak or what. UFP 275 EA, plate above mantlet 250 EA but yes there may be some zones with very thin armor just sayin

    • try to shoot IS7 lower plate while being in front of him. or e75/E100 ones. all depends on the angle from your gun to the point your shell will fly to ofc. Tall tanks with good depression have an advantage of shooting down.

      • There is such an effect, but It heavily depends on the situation, there is no general rule.

        If your tank is indeed much higher and the enemy armor relies heavily on the slope, then when face-hugging or simply standing close to the target you can be succesful in penning its UFP (IS-4 is one of the most notable examples, other is the 113).

        Also rememebr that most tanks have much weaker LFP than UFP, which can be really tough (like E-100, UFP 400 mm eff, LFP around 200 mm eff; I disregarded normalisation for simplicity). In such cases trying to negate slope of UFP may be pointless.

    • There is also a problem that WG uses for shooting “simple throw” model you know from school, not taking into account air drag, thus nerfing LFP even more. IRL end-flight trajectory is even steeper + velocity gets slower (which they adjust by losing pen over distance – but shells still fly with constant velocity ingame).

      • At distances you usually fight at in WoT this is absolutely irrelevant. You do already lose pen at distance and this is massively extrapolated by the game already. You wouldn’t lose THAT much pen at distances of 300m IRL.

  5. I actually think that the only way WarGaming can rebalance (read: nerf) the Chieftain P6 is by giving it the 120mm L1 tank gun, same gun as used by the Conqueror and the FV215b, but with superior stats like Rate of Fire, Accuracy, and Aim Time. That way, at least it isn’t overpowered, yet still potent.

      • But I think that’s still better than a unhistorical FV215b. Plus it’s more versatile with -10 depression/+20 elevation, which continues the hull down philosophy of Cold War UK tanks.

        • Why is it better? There are plenty of fantasy-vehicles in the game and nobdoy fucking complains about them as much. The FV215b works, is very distinctive and not something you get around every corner in the game. They should keep it as an alternative T10 Heavy.

  6. Personally, I don’t understand the delightment of people about this replacement.
    Apart from the rear turret design, Chieftain has all the painful drawbacks of the FV215b. Bouncy UFP (~380mm effective armor) is nice, but it’s just tiny compared to the huge, and extremely weak LFP (bigger than the FV’s), not to mention the 35mm (!) thick side armor, which gets overmatched easily by most of the guns in T10. Turret armor is nice (~390mm effective), but there’s the commander’s hatch, which’ll give a nice, relatively easy-to-hit weak spot. Mobility probably won’t be terrible, but still worse than the current FV’s. Gun is brutal, OK, however I’m almost absolutely sure it will be nerfed to L1A1-level, otherwise it would be way too OP.

    So? Looks? Cool story, good looks won’t make it enjoyable to play.

    After all, I don’t see how Chieftain could be a good tank in WoT, unless it gets some serious, unhistorical buffs.

    • In the end, unless you are really min-maxing and don’t care what you are driving as long as it’s strong, the “feel” and popularity of the tank are very important, at least as much as its values.

      • Well, I rather drive a good tank, than a popular one:D Popularity of it won’t make it feel better, when you get shot to pieces in the first couple of minutes. If I want a vehicle, that’s free food to every single enemy in a head-on engagement, but is a capable support, I buy a TD, not a T10 heavy. Not to mention, that I enjoy the “feel” of the rarest tanks the most (japanese meds, chinese meds, british heavies), so that’s one more reason not to look forward to the Chieftain-replacement, but it’s just me.

        • Let’s see:

          1. Both the FV215b and the Chieftain P6 have weak side armor, but now this weakness can now be partially negated by the Chieftain P6′s ability to hull down with -10 degrees of gun depression. Even with sidescraping, the FV215b can still be (and is regularly) penetrated. And there’s more places to hull-down than to sidescrape in-game, especially with the urban maps currently available. If the tank is getting penetrated in the side while sidescraping this means the team has failed to hold a flank and one has to re-position anyway.

          2. On the weak LFP. The FV215b has that too, and worse, it has its fuel tanks placed nearer to the front of the tank. At least with the Chieftain with its more conventional layout, even if it has a larger lower plate, it won’t burn from frontal hits, which I’ve seen happen many times with the FV215b. Better a dead driver than a burning tank.

          3. The FV215b also has a commander’s hatch that’s easy to hit, especially that most guns at tier 10 are very accurate, so there’s hardly a change there.

          4. On Mobility. If the Chieftain P6 is indeed going to be more lightly armored than the T110, then naturally it should have better speed than the listed 34 kph of the latter. 40 kph sounds about right. FV4202′s speed on a Tier 10 Heavy Tank and has armor? That’s certainly alright with me.

          5. On Ammo count. If I remember correctly, the Conqueror and the FV215b only had room for 35 rounds. The Chieftain has room for 65 (even if only 36 rounds APDS could be carried in real life, the rest for HE and HESH). At least you’d have more HE and HESH ammo to shoot at things like Waffentragers, Artillery, and the ever present French Autoloading tanks, which saves the AP for things like the Maus, E-100, IS-7s, other Chieftains, etc.

          All in all, I think the points I listed above make the Chieftain P6 a more versatile tank, and less awkward to position (positioning is very important throughout a game) than the current FV215b.

          • 1. Strong turret armor yes, but hull down, with that first class target commander’s hatch? Everybody knows what to shoot on turrets in T10. At least FV’s viewports could sometimes get shot without actually taking damage. And about side armor: yeah, both tanks have weak side armor, but the FV’s can’t be overmatched, and that’s a HUGE difference.

            2. I have preventative maintainance and stuff, and I don’t remember the last time the tank caught fire. On the other hand, I honestly don’t care if the FV burns, the point is, that there’s huge LFP, easily penetrated by everybody. The fact it burns less, doesn’t make me happier about it. We’re talking about a T10 heavy.

            3. See above.

            4. Top speed may be 40 km/h, but rotating speed and acceleration will be much worse. You know, AMX40 has 50 km/h top speed too.

            5. Ammo count is the last thing I worry about right now, besides I can’t remember a single case, when I ran out of ammo with the FV. Those 35 rounds are more than enough.

            • 1. If the FV’s viewports can be shot without taking damage (which happens on the T110E5′s big cupola as well from time to time), then the Chieftain can possibly do it too. It’s RNG. Looking at Chieftain pics from books, the first FTR site and Bovington Tank Musuem’s site, the P6′s cupola is no bigger a target than the current cupola on the FV215b, although smart players who can, will shoot it and penetrate. About the overmatching of the side armor, if you could hull down in the Chieftain, then the point about the 35mm of side armor being overmatched is moot.

              2. That’s because you have that perk on your crew. Most of the FV215bs I’ve shot didn’t have it (even though they should), and so they burned when I repeatedly put in shots into their hull. At least on the Chieftain, one doesn’t have to run Preventative Maintenance with its conventional layout. One can use that free skill/perk slot for other skills/perks.

              3. I already explained my point in #1

              4. A fair point, acceleration will probably be worse due to the troublesome engine it had in real life, but about the traverse values (both hull and turret), we have no info on this yet, due to the Chieftain P6 not being in a test server. Conversely, the FV215b’s soft stats like good traverse and relatively good acceleration were pulled out of thin air anyways because it didn’t exist in real life, so I believe the replacement should have just as good (if not better) soft stats – for competitive balance.

              5. Like you, I’ve never run out of ammo on the 120 mm gun YET, but I’d like to have more than just 35 rounds when the situation goes FUBAR and I can’t trust my team to pull their weight, which means I have to shoot more rounds. It’s a nice option to have.

              My point still stands that the Chieftain is a more versatile HT than the FV215b.

              • The difference between the FV’s and the Chieftain’s turret weak spot is, that the FV’s is not a commander’s hatch, it’s a viewport. This way it can be shot without damage, but damaging the viewport. You can’t do that with a commanders hatch.

                Traverse will probalby be worse too, since the FV got a 950 HP engine in the game, while the strongest engine of the Chieftain got 750 HP (which it probably won’t receive in WoT, since only the latest variant had it).

                • I’m not referring to the flat view port on the side of the turret (I’ve seen that one too many times), I’m referring to the commander’s cupola, placed in the rear-central region of the turret (WG’s employee “The_Chieftain” referred to it as a Fire Control System), of which some parts only have 152 mm of armor, and some parts which have 102 mm of armor angled at 65 degrees giving it 241 mm of effective armor. Those are still weakspots as far as Tier 10 tank guns’ penetration values are concerned.

                  Like I said, WG’s gonna balance it to make it competitive. The Chieftain P6 will probably receive an engine buff. If not, the devs have to make buff another stat of the tank, whether it’s a hard stat or soft stat.

                • The commander’s hatch is the balancing factor as far as gameplay is concerned. A tank with strong turret armour and good hull-down should have a weakness to dig it out of entrenchment other than arty and HEAT.

                  And the hatch isn’t that big anyway. It’s rounded and located near the back. It might seem prominent looking at it from a level perspective, but when hull down with the turret tilted upwards, the hatch will be a tricky target to hit and penetrate.

                  Personally, I’d rather have a proper tank like the Chieftain than that fantasy tank that looks like it’s made for a sci-fi RTS any day.

              • A couple of points in no special order.

                The FV cupola is a trap, the only part of it that can be reliably penned is at the very base of the cupola where the armor is flat.

                Burning isnt that bad an issue, Ive never felt the urge to train preventative maintenance. I have yet to have 2 fires in a match, or have the tank brew up any more than a normal tank.

                Ammo count isnt really a big deal. I have burned through my entire stock of AP before (20 rounds) but still had plenty of APCR when I was finally brought down. that was after 7 kills and 6k+ damage, anyone who actually burns through all 35 rounds is either an incredibly poor shot, or was deliberately tossing them off at thin air.

                Finally, who sidescrapes an FV? Its never going to end well for anyone, you may not be able to be triple overmatched, but at anything less than an autobounce angle youre going to be penned anyway.

            • 5. That is a rather important point for me actually. I ran out of ammo a few times in my Conqueror, in game deciding situations. 6000+ damage and still lost because no ammo? GG.

      • What SS says is true. I REFUSE to advance my M46 to the M48 due to the horrendous turret, and I absolutely hated the STA-1/Type 61 grind due to the fat and ugly turrets, despite the tanks having amazing performance. On the other hand, the Super Pershing looks absolutely amazing, and even though its stats are below average, it’s my most played tank.

        In a game that focuses on GETTING tanks (sometimes even more than actually using them), it makes sense for them to prioritize historical tanks with historical visuals than make a strong fake. And no offense to WG, but I’m not sure they have a good artistic sense when it comes to making fantasy tanks… (T28, T28 prot, T25/2, E-50/E-50 M’s horrible mantlets, VK 45 brothers, VK 72.01 K, etc)

        • True, game that focuses on GETTING tanks, in particular T10 tanks. the problem is there is only number of historical tanks, that can fit the tier 10. And most of them are already in the game.

          I have nothing againts napkin projects in WOT as long as they are balanced. Where does come from the urge for any so called ‘historical realism’ in a ridiculous arcade game, which models about zero/null/nada of tank combat realism.

          We call the objects we drive in WOT ‘tanks’. Those only look like tanks and only from afar ;)

          BTW, It DOESN’T mean it is bad, just any claims for realism in such game are comic.

          • Well, it’s a game INSPIRED by realism. If an Elder Scrolls game added orbital lasers and power armors, well… You get the idea.

            That being said, sometimes, realism (actual existing tanks and technologies) ends up breaking balance as well (Smoothbore guns, composite armors), and I think the Chieftain is a good example for it. Armor (stat that’s ridiculously important in WoT) wise, it’s sub-par, yet the gun (a stat that’s important for balancing) is too damned good.

            Honestly though, I’d still take this thing with 2k DPM if it had a good enough penetration to offset its (historically accurate) low ROF. Plus, new tanks that don’t just recycle existing looks is always welcomed.

            • Well, if WG cared about some sort of ‘historical realism’ it would try to reflect Chieftains strong and weak points within the game reality. So it should be very tough when hulldown but with weak LFP and sides. Not so mobile and with low healthpool of the engine, but not really prone to ammoracking (historical, due to separated ammo and storing of propellants lower in the hull Chieftains were quite immune to cooking off, unlike other tanks of the time). Very high penetration (in game realm it would be probably 10 mm more than other heavies ;) and accuracy but slow ROF. Gun soft stats probably worse than T110E5 (for balance reasons, also dispersion and aim time are pure WOT bullshit and can be used to fine-tune tanks infinitely).

              Here, a general sketch of Chieftain in WOT.

                • Good point, you already notice the limitation of an arcade game.

                  However within those limitations a lower healthpool of the engine may reflect the troublesome design of Chieftain’s power unit. That’s the best they may do.

    • BudgiestBudgie the commander hatch is ALOT more tiny than the one from T110E5. To me it looks quite similar to the T30 one. And that’s quite hard to hit unless you are a tomato standing still for the enemy to pen it.

      Unhistorical buffs. Did you started playing WoT yesterday? you can bet it will have unhistorical buffs just as VK4502P has, T110E5, T28 Proto, Fv215B, FV4202etc. Seriously you are too pesimistic. Plus if you dont like it, no one forces you to play it. Enjoy your historical FV4202 with the size and speed of a heavy tank and KV5 weakspots all over it.

  8. We will see. I want pike nose Chieft :D

    SS, thing is for T10 medium we need something that keeps or evolves the gameplay of the Centurion, us not a shit STB 1 or Leopard 1 monkey model tank and is somewhat plausible
    The Vickers as an award tank I approve. The action X we can buff its turret a bit

    Or Centurion.mk12 :)

    • It’s hard to say anything, without having an access to Xlucine’s findings on Action X. I wonder if this is some classified data or maybe X would be willing to share the results, than we would know how good/bad is it. One could think that with such angles the turret would be quite bouncy. It will be disappointing if Vickers will make it. Silent, with X’s permission it might be a good material for an article – Comparison of pro’s and con’s between Action X and Vickers MBT.
      And by the way, can someone link an armour scheme of Vickers MBT, please?

  9. so instead of my litlle fv they will give me another shit british wortles heawy tank withaut armor.cool.

    • Oh fuck off, FV215 isn’t even popular. They’ve had a great replacement for a while, and they’ve finally agreed to replace their fantasy with an actual tank that actually existed and actually fought.

      And Jesus fucking Christ, if you’re going to post with English, use a goddamn browser with basic spellcheck.

      • for me its most popular tank in my garage.for english grammar sorry mate but english is not my first language.cheers!

        • Neither is mine, but I am an actual normal person so I learn English anyway.

  10. if it possible that L11 gun will shot in fact regular APCR which will have penetration of gold APCR of L1A1 gun ?

    • Whatever WG wil do it will end with having unhistorical, tuned down firepower on Chieftain. There was no regular AP for L11 ever developed. Perhaps they will introduce a fantasy AP round for it (I think it would be the most conveneinet way of solving the hyper penetration “problem” of L11, rather than givng it L1 gun).

      On the other hand, how would the community react on introducing a heavy tank shooting regular APDS ammo with 350+ mm of penetration?

    • Given even the lowest round the Chieftain could fire could punch through 355mm, yes, they’ll be nerfing the crap out of it just to make it balanced.

  12. I mentioned this on the WoT forums, the P6 was just one of many prototypes to test a particular feature. P6 was not a combat tank or ever intended to go into combat. Its just one of 12 prototypes.

    G1 and G2 are the pre-production models which culminated in all the findings and development in the P 1-6 and W1-6. Even then the Mk1 which was similar to G1 and G2 were not the standard tanks in service, the MkII was the first type to be standardised.

    Also the L60 producing 650HP was a retrofitted version later on in the production cycle. Development of the L60 never stopped and older tanks were always brought up to the latest standard. So you would have MkII’s which were for all intent and purpose retrofitted to MkV. Bare in mind that the L60 was replaced regularly with newer versions on active tanks. At one stage the entire fleet had them replaced.

  13. Awesome, we are about to get a T110E5 without a tumor…Fuck diversity, fuck variety… ME WANT KARL. TONS OF KARL. Eventually we dont have to worry about diversity, and only true skill will determine the outcome of a battle….

    Don’t get me wrong, i’m waiting for a Chieftain model at the top of another branch.
    Same goes for the Super Hero Action (X) Man…

    • If implemented with care to resemblance of it’s historical properties, it will rather be invulnerable when hull-down and at medium distance, and otherwise vulnerable to KV-1S. Also not so mobile (subpar to T110E5) but with the highest penetration available to heavies.

      Certainly a different T10 heavy tank to those we have in game now.

      • soo IS7′s invulnerability from the front and vulnerability of the T110e5 from the sides, with medium tank gun values…I AM still not convinced…

        Of course it’s a unique tank (hell, all tanks are unique in their particular way), but i can’t see a reason why the FV215b(120) and the Chieftain couldn’t live next to each other…IN PEACE

          • If I want to be harsh and negative i would say: 50% or more of the tanks have MADE UP equipment and equipment combinations…So please, ignore that made up bullshit thing ( for the 1000000th time: HI WTE100)

            • Why ignore it? Wargaming state they wish to avoid adding made up tanks. Most players would prefer to avoid made up tanks. And when it comes down to it there are very few tanks in WoT which are completely made up. You can count the number of completely fictional tanks on 1 hand.

              • Ignore it because we can divide this made up thing into subcategories…
                FIRSTLY: There are of course the completely fake, made up tanks

                http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/01/07/its-a-fake-part-2-wargaming-fakes/ <- (i just found smthng on the internet, i was too lazy to dig further, but I guess you dont have ~10 fingers on 1 hand)

                SECONDLY: then there are tanks with fake configuration.. Hi IS-4…and i would put the fv215b here (but i want to HIGHLIGHT that this is my opinion, the reason why i would put the FV215b(120) here is that the hull existed, the turret existed, the gun existed).
                I'm not saying that i am right, or my idea is the good one, but i think the FV215B should stay in the game, not because unhistorical tanks have place in an ARCADE GAME, but because it still brings something unique (i consider rear turreted tanks unique, as well as autoloaders)

        • I agree, I think that more tanks in the game = better. FV215(120) could and should stay in the game.

          Napkin projects aren’t bad in agame where tanks drive like maglev race cars, can’t see each other from a distance of 446 m no matter what (but can from 445 m), shoot mouse aimed guns at distances of 100-400 m most of the time and have health bars floating over them.

          Oh, and all those tanks drive on some distant alien planets, because I have never seen such surfaces on Earth.

          As for Chieftain sides – it will be about as weak from the side as 50B. Much below E5 level. Also it will have IS-7 like UFP and Hellcat like LFP ;)

  14. what about Spaced armor conqueror?
    I hope Chieftain to be the British 2nd heavy line’s tier 10.

    • “British 2nd heavy line”

      They most likely are not going to get one for more than 2 years, if ever, so you can stop holding out for that, it just ain’t gonna happen.

      • Eh, WG shat out the US turreted TD line with like 3 fantasy tanks (1 of them being tier X), so I wouldn’t be surprised.

        Honestly, WG should just keep shitting out tanks with mediocre stats so that people can keep grinding them. Fuck introduction balance; that gets sorted out later (as always, some faster than others) and adds a nice “GRIND THIS TANK BEFORE IT GETS NERFED” rush which generates free EXP/cred conversion revenue for WG, and a flood of shitty players playing the non-OP tanks leading up to the OP tank (COUGH TOASTER/EMIL, FRENCH TDS, AMERICAN AUTOLOADERS) like shit so above-average players can farm them too.

        Oh, and moar premiums. Pure money for WG, and people with jobs are happy to have MOAR TENKS.

  15. Looks like a nice candidate for all-rounder and tier X workhorse.
    Heavy tank faster than other HTs, decent punch, seems like acceptable armor, ability to use terrain as advantage.
    Sounds really sexy to me, as for tank.

  16. That gun would be crazy. The 120mm M58 on the M103 did 114mm/60 degrees penetration on the same range.

    Unless WG rape the L11 gun hard, we are gonne get another APDS/HESH/HE shooter tank like the current FV 4202.

  17. You guys are forgetting something. If WG wants it OP for awhile, it will be OP. If they want it to have better armor than IRL, it will have better armor (VK4520P just one example).

    The way i see there will be two sets of possible charateristics it will have :

    1. Front hull armor as strong as T110E5+not as good but fairly bouncy turret+speed acceleration similar to T110E5 or even better. Coupled with awesome gun, great depression etc.

    2. FV215B similar armor : weak sides, rear, while upper front armor can bounce a shell or two. But overall weak hull. It’s turret will be quite strong just as the FV215B one is now. Same great gun characteristics and better mobility than T110E5. These will probably make it a perfect hulldown sniper.

    I tend to think it will be set 2. Either way im happy its on the FV215b (which i own) line so i wont have to grind the medium line to get it.

  18. well the 2164CC is much high velocity then the 44pdrM1, while it boast a 7.8/s high rate then the M30udm low imfact barrle it most certainly lower then the RR07 of the 2154 variant.

  19. I am very much excited about that 120mm thick 72 degrees sloping UFP. Finally, a British tank people can’t just auto-aim derp through the front of if they spy it’s UFP.

    Then that 395mm turret…

    That “Russian source” layout of the armour is completely inaccurate though. Richard Ogorkiewicz, someone who actually had access to proper sources from Britain’s MoD puts it as 120mm thick on the UFP (At 72 degrees) and 195mm on the turret at 60 degrees. He does confirm, the sides are paper, which it really should be.

    A tank with godlike hulldown ability, excellent frontal armour, a doomcannon for a gun but has no armour ANYWHERE else and has a very meh engine that has low module HP (The Chief’s engine went kaput more than anyone could ever imagine) would be pretty nice. Likely VERY low camo as well thanks to the Chief being a big smoke beltcher, it’d help balance it out. You’ll always see it, leading the Chieftain player to have to keep up relocation and position swapping. Arty would WRECK it if caught still.

    It’d let the Chief be what it should be without unbalancing it, although good god that APDS round would have to be nerfed. 355mm is just insanity. Probably something closer to 270-290 would be fine to still feel incredibly high without being “gold ammo”esque.

    I was one of those insistent that we could have gotten a Chieftain line. I still think it’d be pretty easy. Slakerrrrr and I have been doing some work on it and found some neat layouts that could work pretty stress free after all. The real hope is for that to just become a change of tier 10 routes someday down the line now…

    Of course, WG are far more interested in another 6 Soviet lines before they add more British things…

  20. I dont want the chieftain i want my FV215b… There is nothing wrong with this tank and the RoF is insane. If the Chieftain does not have 7.18s Reload i am going to be pissed. And i guess the accuracy and aimtime will be way worse also.

      • Yes it does exist, ingame.

        This game is based on reality. It is not supposed to reflect it.

        I for one hope they put fv215b right beside cheiftain.
        making two options. Some people really do love their fv215b…

        • Exactly. The FV215b is one of the most fun tanks i have. The agility + turret/cannon stats makes this tank very fun to play. How you can hate it boggles my mind.
          Either make it a free premium if it is so damn bad that ppl say it is(it is not) or keep it and make the Chieftain a second T10 heavy.

          It would not surprise me at all if they make the Chieftain have more crewmembers either just to fuck with people even more.

          And if i understand it correctly(prob not) the Chieftain will have AP, HESH and HE wich will make it useless vs E100 and Maus.

          • I agree, why not both?
            215b and Chieftain (my choice P6)
            Side by side both at tier 10. The 215b has it’s fans, it exists in this game, and a lot of work has went into it. A second tier 10 British heavy, just means more grinding and the equals more revenue for Wargaming.
            Win-Win.
            Appy

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  22. What exactly IS high priority after the firefly branch? They’ve basically said everything not german or russian is “low priority” at this point. This includes japanese/chinese lines that dont exist yet and stuff like second french/american heavy/medium lines. Not to mention the ever pushed back EU tree.

    Fuckin WG swear to god after firefly we’re just gonna get another russian heavy line or something.

  24. And have you not thought about the fact this tans armour is most likely created differently hence the measuring devices used may give incorrect results?

    You also would take the Russian’s schematic as true? ever heard of propaganda?