Wait, so the Matilda gets a lower weight than a B1?????
Yes. Doublechecked on gamemodels3d
Clearly someone at WG was drunk when they assigned the tier 4 weights.
Not that I’m complaining that my Matilda gets *slightly* better mm than B1 (at expense of seeing tier 6 tanks)
So micromaus is supposed to be better that tier III TDs? T82, Marder anyone? Who creates this chart?
Wasn’t the marder nerfed into oblivion a while ago?
Marder was nerfed, so it’s not as easy as it was to kill KV-1 tanks with it. Which was GOOD, seeing as KV-1 is a heavy tanks 2 tiers higher than Marder.
But in its tier, Marder is still a killing machine. Hell, any tier II TD will dispatch micromaus with ease, and they have less than HALF weight according to the chart…
the marder nerfs made it unplayable for me. and that’s after 1.1k games on it
Haven’t they said, the will decrease the MM weight of the Leopards? (T IX & X)
____________________________
•German medium tank Leopard 1
◦Matchmaking weight 100 ( 120 )
———————————————-
•German medium tank Leopard prototyp A
◦Matchmaking weight 60 ( 72 )
____________________________
(Source: http://ftr-wot.blogspot.co.at/2013/05/full-list-of-086-tech-changes.html )
In 0.8.6, Leopard 1 has 120 and Prototype A has 72, they didn’t change it in the end.
Also obj907 got full 120 weight.
Fuck!
Thx Frank for your fast reply.
It’s a pity that they don’t change them, but well… WG will have their reasons.
I really wonder why they’s don’t use MM weight for TC and tournament, this way they could make an use for odds tier tanks (right now in TC a T20 who got 27 weight is only 1 point less than an is-3 which weight 48. This means that for TC the is-3 is only 12% more powerful than a T20, while for MM weight is-3 is 44% more powerful than a T20)
companies are a complete different realm where teams are running close to optimal setups. And gameplay wise, i’d say the IS-3 is 44% better than a T20 definitely
Looks pretty strange.
What of all those tanks with lower MM like kv5 or fcm?
Oh fuck, i’m a retard, they get lower battle lvls, not lowered mm-weight, forget i asked.
That doesn’t make any sense! Why would the VK 30.02 (D) and Comet have HIGHER mm weight than other medium tanks? They’re terrible medium tanks! The worst!
In thr right hands and with prem rounds they are killer… Both have very high DPM.
In the right hands any of the Tier 7 mediums are killer, T-34-1 has more pen with premium rounds, they are both tier 7 guns.
Haven’t played the Comet. So can’t say anything about it.
The DB is/was OP (but ONLY as top tier!). High DPM, Enough armourprotection to bounce most tier 5 & 6 guns, decent mobility.
Against T IX it’s worthless, indeed.
There is at least one error on this table: My Pz38H (Pz.Kpfw.38H735(f) – premium Hotchkiss) is already at bottom of III tier list. No more old weight. This table shows old weight of this tank.
They changed the way vehicles are sorted in the in-battle lists so that arty is not at the top. The ingame battle-participants-list therefore does not represent the MM-weight order anymore.
At least that is what was in some patchnotes and what it looked like during the 8.6 PT2.
The tier8 meds part can be shorter, because only 4 tier8 meds have 40 mm weight :P
Type 59 no longer has preferred match making? ?
T-50-2 and Chaffee get the same match making as a tier 6? So they see max tier 8?
ELC and Leopard no longer see the same as tier 5 heavies?
T-50 gets reduced MM weight as well?
No way this is correct
That should not be “NO LONGER” , but rather , THEY SEE the same MM as a Tier 5 heavy
Don’t mix up Battle Tier MM with the MM weight. Two different things.
This is not a MM-chart, but the weight of the vehicles. These have nothing to do with the tier-limits of the tanks, these are the values of a tank in a match. The MM tries to build up teams so these values add up to the same number, in theory, preventing full medium teams against full heavy teams situations.
Related to the differences between MM-tiers and MM-weight, some copypasta from the old blog, maybe it clears some things up (even though the wiki does a good job explaining it already):
The MM-weight of a a tank is independent from the MM-tiers assigned to it.
The MM-tiers of a vehicle define the range of battles a vehicle can be assigned to, the MM-weight defines how vehicles are balanced between teams within a battle.
Example part 1:
Vehicle X has an MM-weight of 100 and MM-tiers 6-8.
Vehicle Y has an MM-weight of 100 and MM-tiers 9-11.
Vehicle X and Y will never meet each other thanks to having different MM-tiers assigned, even though the MM-weight is equal.
Example part 2:
You select your Tier 8 tank in the garage, hit BATTLE and wonder why the match does not begin immediately even though there are 100 Tier 8 in the waiting queue. This is the case for two reasons:
1) Different T8 vehicles have different MM-tiers assigned which overlap with vehicles of other tiers
2) The sum of the MM-weights of all vehicles in both teams in one battle has to be equal (with a certain margin of difference allowed).
So the MM is tasked with matching up both proper MM-tiers and MM-weights. The MM cannot allow one team (let’s say teams are mad up of five players and the margin of difference is 50) to consist of tanks with MM-weight of 100 + 100 + 100 + 50 + 20 = 370 vs another with an MM weight of 100 + 50 + 50 + 20 + 20 = 240.
Finding an appropriate combination of MM-weights in combination with MM-tiers can be compared to the Knapsack problem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problem ), which is why the MM sometimes flat-out fails: Finding a perfect solution is practically impossible. At one point in its line of approximations the MM algorithm simply stops by design and this point is not necessarily good in the eyes of a human observer.
I am sure I red somewhere (maby here on FTR) that VK3002DB would get its battle-weight lowered from 32/34? down to 27.
Honestly it could need a little love, specialy after the derp nerf. Maby a looted Rolls-Royce Merlin G engine or a nice BL-10 Not unthinkable or unrealistic at all (in my little fantasy world).
…same fate as the Leopards, I think.
-> look at my comment above
TY m8, let us hope there is a fault on the chart given here then.
On a sidenote, now I understand why when we have a platon of 3x Pz38H 375, the rest of our team sucks. We practicly have the same weight as 7 normal tier 2
You propably meant minimaus with its MM weight of 7 is close to MM weight of T3/T4 tanks, not tier 2.
nvm, I got you point. Guess need some coffe ;P
On a sidenote:
the minimaus have its MM weight of 7 for very long time already, its the nice little tweaks it got from devs, that finally made it no longer cheezy mode.
First, possiblity to meet T2/T3 TD’s, and the final nail in the coffin – ammo for credits.
It’s a real shame.
I miss the days of killing the “pros” in their Pz38H735, using BT2 with standard ammo. Gold ammo for silver ruined it, now its easy to do it with most tanks :(
The problem about pz38h is that before the brits they were like unpenetrable, then came tetrarch wich actually eat them with ease, then the rest of brits with high pen guns, new mm for tier2 TD etc etc. Now pz38h it’s just a shade of what he was.
i’m pretty sure what killed the 38H was gold ammo for credits.
I’m not complaining though, the thing still carries hard, just not as hard and you have to be more conservative
While it’s opp for its tier 7 points does seem OTT especially as tier 3 stuff is set at 5 points.
Imo gold ammo is not that big of a problem in T2 battles since only seal clubbers tend to use it. What killed H38 are new high pen/dmg tanks like brits, Tetrarch have monster gun and even MS-1 have gun that pens with ease H38….right now that tank is nothing special at all…everything pens it and it slow as shit thus making it very hard to play.
Is this official? I’m asking because the wiki doesn’t have very good information about MM weight (read: barely any), and if it is official I’d love to add it.
Wait, so the Matilda gets a lower weight than a B1?????
Yes. Doublechecked on gamemodels3d
Clearly someone at WG was drunk when they assigned the tier 4 weights.
Not that I’m complaining that my Matilda gets *slightly* better mm than B1 (at expense of seeing tier 6 tanks)
So micromaus is supposed to be better that tier III TDs? T82, Marder anyone? Who creates this chart?
Wasn’t the marder nerfed into oblivion a while ago?
Marder was nerfed, so it’s not as easy as it was to kill KV-1 tanks with it. Which was GOOD, seeing as KV-1 is a heavy tanks 2 tiers higher than Marder.
But in its tier, Marder is still a killing machine. Hell, any tier II TD will dispatch micromaus with ease, and they have less than HALF weight according to the chart…
the marder nerfs made it unplayable for me. and that’s after 1.1k games on it
Haven’t they said, the will decrease the MM weight of the Leopards? (T IX & X)
____________________________
•German medium tank Leopard 1
◦Matchmaking weight 100 ( 120 )
———————————————-
•German medium tank Leopard prototyp A
◦Matchmaking weight 60 ( 72 )
____________________________
(Source: http://ftr-wot.blogspot.co.at/2013/05/full-list-of-086-tech-changes.html )
Original Source: http://panzer-journal.ru/news/polnyj-spisok-izmenenij-texniki-v-patche-0-8-6.html
In 0.8.6, Leopard 1 has 120 and Prototype A has 72, they didn’t change it in the end.
Also obj907 got full 120 weight.
Fuck!
Thx Frank for your fast reply.
It’s a pity that they don’t change them, but well… WG will have their reasons.
I really wonder why they’s don’t use MM weight for TC and tournament, this way they could make an use for odds tier tanks (right now in TC a T20 who got 27 weight is only 1 point less than an is-3 which weight 48. This means that for TC the is-3 is only 12% more powerful than a T20, while for MM weight is-3 is 44% more powerful than a T20)
companies are a complete different realm where teams are running close to optimal setups. And gameplay wise, i’d say the IS-3 is 44% better than a T20 definitely
Looks pretty strange.
What of all those tanks with lower MM like kv5 or fcm?
Oh fuck, i’m a retard, they get lower battle lvls, not lowered mm-weight, forget i asked.
That doesn’t make any sense! Why would the VK 30.02 (D) and Comet have HIGHER mm weight than other medium tanks? They’re terrible medium tanks! The worst!
In thr right hands and with prem rounds they are killer… Both have very high DPM.
In the right hands any of the Tier 7 mediums are killer, T-34-1 has more pen with premium rounds, they are both tier 7 guns.
Haven’t played the Comet. So can’t say anything about it.
The DB is/was OP (but ONLY as top tier!). High DPM, Enough armourprotection to bounce most tier 5 & 6 guns, decent mobility.
Against T IX it’s worthless, indeed.
There is at least one error on this table: My Pz38H (Pz.Kpfw.38H735(f) – premium Hotchkiss) is already at bottom of III tier list. No more old weight. This table shows old weight of this tank.
They changed the way vehicles are sorted in the in-battle lists so that arty is not at the top. The ingame battle-participants-list therefore does not represent the MM-weight order anymore.
At least that is what was in some patchnotes and what it looked like during the 8.6 PT2.
The tier8 meds part can be shorter, because only 4 tier8 meds have 40 mm weight :P
Type 59 no longer has preferred match making? ?
T-50-2 and Chaffee get the same match making as a tier 6? So they see max tier 8?
ELC and Leopard no longer see the same as tier 5 heavies?
T-50 gets reduced MM weight as well?
No way this is correct
That should not be “NO LONGER” , but rather , THEY SEE the same MM as a Tier 5 heavy
Don’t mix up Battle Tier MM with the MM weight. Two different things.
http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Battle_Mechanics
Ahhh sorry guys , I see now.
This is not a MM-chart, but the weight of the vehicles. These have nothing to do with the tier-limits of the tanks, these are the values of a tank in a match. The MM tries to build up teams so these values add up to the same number, in theory, preventing full medium teams against full heavy teams situations.
Related to the differences between MM-tiers and MM-weight, some copypasta from the old blog, maybe it clears some things up (even though the wiki does a good job explaining it already):
The MM-weight of a a tank is independent from the MM-tiers assigned to it.
The MM-tiers of a vehicle define the range of battles a vehicle can be assigned to, the MM-weight defines how vehicles are balanced between teams within a battle.
Example part 1:
Vehicle X has an MM-weight of 100 and MM-tiers 6-8.
Vehicle Y has an MM-weight of 100 and MM-tiers 9-11.
Vehicle X and Y will never meet each other thanks to having different MM-tiers assigned, even though the MM-weight is equal.
Example part 2:
You select your Tier 8 tank in the garage, hit BATTLE and wonder why the match does not begin immediately even though there are 100 Tier 8 in the waiting queue. This is the case for two reasons:
1) Different T8 vehicles have different MM-tiers assigned which overlap with vehicles of other tiers
2) The sum of the MM-weights of all vehicles in both teams in one battle has to be equal (with a certain margin of difference allowed).
So the MM is tasked with matching up both proper MM-tiers and MM-weights. The MM cannot allow one team (let’s say teams are mad up of five players and the margin of difference is 50) to consist of tanks with MM-weight of 100 + 100 + 100 + 50 + 20 = 370 vs another with an MM weight of 100 + 50 + 50 + 20 + 20 = 240.
Finding an appropriate combination of MM-weights in combination with MM-tiers can be compared to the Knapsack problem ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knapsack_problem ), which is why the MM sometimes flat-out fails: Finding a perfect solution is practically impossible. At one point in its line of approximations the MM algorithm simply stops by design and this point is not necessarily good in the eyes of a human observer.
I am sure I red somewhere (maby here on FTR) that VK3002DB would get its battle-weight lowered from 32/34? down to 27.
Honestly it could need a little love, specialy after the derp nerf. Maby a looted Rolls-Royce Merlin G engine or a nice BL-10 Not unthinkable or unrealistic at all (in my little fantasy world).
Your’re right.
_____________________________________
•German medium tank VK 30.02 (D) 8.6 (8.5)
◦Matchmaking weight 27 ( 32.4 )
(Source: http://ftr-wot.blogspot.co.at/2013/05/full-list-of-086-tech-changes.html )
…same fate as the Leopards, I think.
-> look at my comment above
TY m8, let us hope there is a fault on the chart given here then.
On a sidenote, now I understand why when we have a platon of 3x Pz38H 375, the rest of our team sucks. We practicly have the same weight as 7 normal tier 2
You propably meant minimaus with its MM weight of 7 is close to MM weight of T3/T4 tanks, not tier 2.
nvm, I got you point. Guess need some coffe ;P
On a sidenote:
the minimaus have its MM weight of 7 for very long time already, its the nice little tweaks it got from devs, that finally made it no longer cheezy mode.
First, possiblity to meet T2/T3 TD’s, and the final nail in the coffin – ammo for credits.
It’s a real shame.
I miss the days of killing the “pros” in their Pz38H735, using BT2 with standard ammo. Gold ammo for silver ruined it, now its easy to do it with most tanks :(
The problem about pz38h is that before the brits they were like unpenetrable, then came tetrarch wich actually eat them with ease, then the rest of brits with high pen guns, new mm for tier2 TD etc etc. Now pz38h it’s just a shade of what he was.
i’m pretty sure what killed the 38H was gold ammo for credits.
I’m not complaining though, the thing still carries hard, just not as hard and you have to be more conservative
While it’s opp for its tier 7 points does seem OTT especially as tier 3 stuff is set at 5 points.
Imo gold ammo is not that big of a problem in T2 battles since only seal clubbers tend to use it. What killed H38 are new high pen/dmg tanks like brits, Tetrarch have monster gun and even MS-1 have gun that pens with ease H38….right now that tank is nothing special at all…everything pens it and it slow as shit thus making it very hard to play.
Is this official? I’m asking because the wiki doesn’t have very good information about MM weight (read: barely any), and if it is official I’d love to add it.
Hmm, looking at vehicle.xml from res/scripts/item_defs/vehicles/common I got these values:
for light/medium/AT-SPG 2.0 3.0 5.0 8.0 12.0 18.0 27.0 40.0 60.0 100.0
for heavy/SPG 2.4 3.6 6.0 9.6 14.4 21.6 32.0 48.0 72.0 120.0
Exceptions:
ussr:T-54 72.0
usa:M46_Patton 72.0
germany:E-50 72.0
ussr:Object_704 72.0
germany:JagdTiger 72.0
usa:T95 72.0
germany:H39_captured 7.0
ussr:ISU-152 48.0
germany:Ferdinand 48.0
usa:T28 48.0
ussr:T_50_2 21.6
germany:VK2801 21.6
usa:M24_Chaffee 21.6
usa:T28_Prototype 48.0
usa:T30 72.0
germany:JagdTiger_SdKfz_185 48.0
france:AMX_AC_Mle1948 48.0
france:AMX50_Foch 72.0
germany:JagdPantherII 48.0
germany:JagdPz_E100 120.0
germany:E50_Ausf_M 120.0
usa:T110E4 120.0
usa:T110E3 120.0
usa:M48A1 120.0
ussr:Object268 120.0
ussr:T62A 120.0
france:AMX_50Fosh_155 120.0
france:Bat_Chatillon25t 120.0
france:Lorraine40t 72.0
ussr:SU-101 48.0
ussr:SU122_54 72.0
ussr:Object263 120.0
uk:GB24_Centurion_Mk3 72.0
uk:GB70_FV4202_105 120.0
usa:T54E1 72.0
usa:T69 48.0
usa:Pershing 48.0
china:Ch01_Type59 48.0
china:Ch01_Type59_Gold 48.0
uk:GB22_Comet 32.4
uk:GB71_AT_15A 32.4
usa:Sherman_Jumbo 21.6
china:Ch17_WZ131_1_WZ132 48.0
china:Ch05_T34_2 48.0
china:Ch18_WZ-120 72.0
china:Ch19_121 120.0
uk:GB72_AT15 48.0
uk:GB32_Tortoise 72.0
uk:GB48_FV215b_183 120.0
france:ELC_AMX 14.4
germany:VK1602 14.4
france:AMX_12t 21.6
usa:T21 21.6
china:Ch15_59_16 21.6
france:AMX_13_75 32.4
usa:T71 32.4
china:Ch16_WZ_131 32.4
china:Ch02_Type62 32.4
france:AMX_13_90 48.0
germany:Auf_Panther 32.4
germany:VK3002DB 32.4
germany:Indien_Panzer 48.0
germany:Pro_Ag_A 72.0
germany:Leopard1 120.0
ussr:Object_907 120.0
usa:M60 120.0
germany:E-25 32.4
Is anybody able to determine if the table in the post or the data in the file are correct?