“No random T10 reward tanks available”? Presenting: Weserhütte Tiger

Source: Kankou, Zarax and me (list of sources below)

In recent Q&A, Storm stated that while they are looking for some tier 10 vehicles to serve as reward tanks to be obtainable thru random battles, but haven’t found any. Well, here’s one they could use. Presenting: the Weserhütte Tiger!

What is it? Well, basically, to quote Kankou: Basically, a rear transmission E-75 with originally projected speed (40 km/h) and armed with an upgraded 10,5 cm KwK 46 L/68 (preferably without the muzzle brake).


Yes, it is (somewhat) historical – by somewhat however I mean more than GW E-100, or GW Tiger P, which are for example completely made up. This is its main advantage. Both Kankou and Zarax have been writing on the topic of Weserhütte Tiger for some time, for example here and here. Zarax tends to focus more on the truly historical side, while Kankou made a post specifically with the intent of having this vehicle introduced into the game. I will therefore quote her on this:

For those following Silentstalker or Zarax might have seen the following picture:

Long story short, Eisenwerk (steel mill) Weserhütte of Bad Oeyenhausen was a participant in the E-Series Project, and apparently was tinkering with a design for what we call the E-75. Those with sharp eyes will notice the 153.5 mm difference between the distance of the leading and end wheel for the Adler and Weserhütte design, and also a 25 mm difference between the distance of the first and last roadwheel (never mind the E-50 style suspension of Weserhütte, which is very interesting, to say the least). Zarax had written a bit on this topic (linked above), and I have studied the issue, focusing on measurements on various tanks. In this re​sc​ri​pt, we shall be looking into conflicts between requirements, concepts, blueprints, and reality, as the purpose of the mysterious Tiger (Weserhütte) is pondered upon. The result is interesting, to say the least.

Shall we begin, Kameraden?

Dream: E-Reihe

The E-series designs were to be simpler, cheaper to produce, and more efficient than their predecessor tanks, yet their design involved only modest improvements in armor and firepower over the designs they were intended to replace. In addition, they were to utilize common interchangeable parts, thereby reducing the load that came from the extremely complex tank designs that had resulted in poor production rates and mechanical unreliability. The five requirements given by Wa Prüf 6 were the following:

1) To achieve a very strong frontal plate, move all possible weight to the rear
2) Unify the drive train unit to simplify maintenance and service
3) Standardize all panzers into four weight classes
4) Attach all suspensions from the outside and no fighting space encumbered by through torsion bars
5) In case the front idler or any road wheels were destroyed by mines, the vehicle must be capable of proceeding by adjusting the track around the remaining wheels.

Ultimately, the E-series would represent the final standardization of German armored vehicle design.

The program used the design offices of engineering companies which had no previous experience of tanks, under the belief that this will help bring about the most original approach to the problems at hand. These companies included Klockner-Humbolt- Deutz of Ulm, makers of the Diesel powered RSO/03, Argus of Karlsruhe, Adler of Frankfurt, and Weserhuette of Bad Oeyenhausen, all mainly component manufacturers, making things like engines, gearboxes and brakes for the larger concerns such as MAN and Daimler-Benz. It is worth knowing that not only could the ideas that formed from this project be considered the peak of German technological thought, but also that many of the components and ideas from E-50 were inherited by French tanks and also incorporated into the Indien-Panzer, eventually leading to what we know as the Leopard 1.

Of particular interest concerns the placement of the transmission. At least at the “experimental” level designers were considering rear mounted final drives as part of power pack concept to simplify maintenance. This is based on the preferably having the gearbox and final drive at the rear of the hull (as mentioned in the second requirements given by Wa Prüf 6). The technical superiority of forward drive was recognized (tests by the Germans had shown that tractive effort was far greater with front drive), but the military advantage of having the drive at the rear where it was not endangered by anti-tank fire, and the greater internal space in the fighting compartment which would result from the placement, influenced the choice of rear drive.

However, these first thoughts and proposals on future panzer requirements were never given any priority and as the war situation deteriorated. The “real“ engine/transmission package designers from Maybach never actively got involved and the armor designers certainly had not considered how a rear drive might be mounted. Wartime reality dictated that the front drive was seen as being a good enough of a solution. This would indicate that if the E-50 or E-75 had been produced, it would have had a front drive until conditions allowed the redesigning to a rear drive. Still, this does not mean that a rear transmission itself was completely ignored. E-50 and E-75 were to mount a transmission which would eventually be developed as the ZF M-4 transmission for the AMX 50. Essentially, at least conceptually it was entirely possible for a rear transmission to have been developed.

Keeping this in mind, allow us to explore the royal tank that was the basis of E-50 and E-75: Tiger II.

Royalty: Königstiger

One of the most iconic heavy tanks of World War II, Tiger II is majestic in its appearance.However, there are quite a few differences in the measurements of the hull. Some sources say 7.38 meters, another mentions 7.1 meters, and a blueprint of the Krupp plan to install the 10.5 cm gun indicates 6.8 meters. In order to analyze this, the following drawing by Mr. Doyle should serve a purpose:

According to this, the length of Tiger II from the nose to the rear armor is 6.8 meters. Once measurements include the exhausts or the front fenders do the number extend 7 meters. It seems that ultimately all the different measurements are based on where the hull is measured from, with the most related measurement concerning internal space to be 6.8 meters. In addition, the distance between the leading and end wheel is approximately 5.5 meters.

Internally, we see that quite a bit of space has been taken up by the engine room and the transmission. The engine room is approximately 1.4 meters lone when considering the floor, and the transmission is 1.1 meters long. With the positions of the engine and the transmission, we can see why the turret was placed in the middle of the hull, aside from balancing issues.

Successor: AMX 50

Unfortunately, the design of Tiger II did not survive into future, contrary to what quite a few people seem to think. Only the French, utilizing the Panthers and hiring German engineers, continued on the heavy tank technological advances of the Third Reich, and even this was only for a short while. The ultimate result (and dead end) was AMX 50.

Of particular note for this tank is that the engine and transmission were both essentially the continuation of the E-series. The engine was the Maybach HL 295 (a redesigned German gas engine in 1945 captured at Friedrichshafen by Engineer-General Joseph Molinié), which would have been used for both E-50 and E-75. Furthermore, the transmission was developed from the same designs which was to be used for E-50 and E-75. Basically, we can see what the rear transmission E-50/E-75 would have needed for it to be able to contain such an arrangement. Using the length of the hull (7.24 meters) and of the engine room floor (2.2 meters), we can attempt to see what changes are required

Application: Rear Transmission E-Series

For all purposes, both E-50 and E-75 had the same hull dimensions as Tiger II, with only the angles of the frontal armor being different (and the obvious armor thickness changes). Once you attempt to put the rear transmission into Tiger II, this happens:

The additional 0.8 meter of spaced required means that the turret itself would have to be moved forward, which in itself would collide with the forward hatch and ventilator cover, causing quite a few problems for the crew. In order for a rear transmission to have been possible, the hull itself would have to be lengthened by a minimum of 15 cm, and the turret itself moved from the formerly central position to just ahead of the engine room, which would be around 0.5 meters forward from the original location. As it happens, such a vehicle exists in WoT: E-50 Ausf. M.

From left to right, top to bottom:
“Technically, you can lower it a little. No torsion bars, no driveshaft, you can lower the engine and cut off some hull.”
“Motor group from the AMX 45″
“This wheel is no longer the drive wheel, remove clutches.”
“Move the fan grilles to cover the engine, the transmission service hatch is behind them.”
“This wheel is the leading wheel, add clutches”
“Turret moved as far up as possible so you can still open the hatches.”

The above are the notes that WG had made when developing E-50 Ausf. M, and we can see the requirements necessary for a rear transmission

E-50 Ausf. M happens to be approximately 15 cm longer than both E-50 and E-75, with the distance of the leading and end wheel being 5.6 meters and the distance of the first and last roadwheel 4.1 meters. These numbers are that used for Tiger (Weserhütte). Basically, by coincidence or design, the rear transmission E-50 Ausf. M lays out what Tiger (Weserhütte) would have been potential of if the German designers had managed to move on to a concrete rear transmission design. And as it turns out, SerB had confirmed E-50 Ausf. M is basically a redesigned Tiger (Weserhütte). Silentstalker: By the way, ever wondered, why E50 Ausf.M is called “Ausf.M”? Check the picture author’s last name.


For some reason, Weserhütte had made a concept design for E-75 which was different from the Adler design, in being both longer and with having a different running gear layout of six roadwheels. This design had the potential of being the basis of a rear transmission E-75, given the specific redesigning necessities being fulfulled as seen in the example of E-50 Ausf. M. Basically, we can argue that there was a historical basis for the rear transmission E-75, something which has a firmer foundation than the requirement-reliant E-50 Ausf. M. Of course, there would be the problem of redesigning the turret and such, but the conditions do exist for a tier 10 potential juggernaut which could replace the VK 72.01 (K) and with a greater historical basis.

It is certainly interesting how even in the chaos of the final months of war, the Germans were working on different ideas which could be used. Perhaps we might see something interesting in the future, or perhaps not. Nevertheless, what is certain that ultimately almost everything we see in World of Tanks has some foundations in history, and we should use this as a basis to further our own knowledge.

In World of Tanks

Well, that’s for the history lesson. And how would it look in World of Tanks?


So, do you like it? :)

54 thoughts on ““No random T10 reward tanks available”? Presenting: Weserhütte Tiger

  1. Well this was easy to model. Take the E-50M hull and yank a E-75 turret on it. Change some characteristics and you are done. Don’t really see why this tank had to be made. I would prefer something new. Or maybe even change the 4502 with this as that tank is clearly gimped down thanks to all the new tanks.

  2. Excellent reconstruction!
    This basically was my idea, only I lack the photoshop and engineering skills to make the drawing.
    E-75 ausf W would be an excellent VK7201 substitute, basically an heavy tank with lowish alpha but excellent penetration and potentially high DPM.

    German engineers were aware of the transmission size problem, which was to be solved by the “ausf B” versions of E-50/75/100, it was actually called “Projekt B”, involving hydro-mechanic transmission and rear drive.

  3. IS4 was moved to t10, why not E75 too
    turret will be forward – better brawler
    maybe keep the 128mm

      • Because the is4 had better side armor, was faster and had more pen. Further on its a smaler Target. For Tier X it got Buffed several weakspots like the Drivers hatch. Overall for shure Not the best x Tank but no slouch either.

        Try an e75 against an e100 and after that is4 against an e100.
        In 6.6 you could more Easily destroy a Tier x in an is4 than in an e75.
        Also a huge amount of players still think that the e100 is the worst Tier x, but in my Point of view its Way better than the e75. What would they have sayed about the e75 at tier x If its so “op”?

        Further on e75 got nerfed so that he is not as good as it was back in 6.x times.

        The Substitution, st1, is in my opinion a worthy Tank.
        It has a very similar, modified is4 Hull and a Beast of a turret with the Same Gun and better gun depression. I would say it became more noob friendly. But would be the is4 be as Good as in Tier 9 Times, today? We have now so many New tanks/td’s so thats difficult to say. It would have certainly suffered with the 8.6 patch and its huge Drivers “Mailbox”.

        Overall they did it because they wanted to do it. And These were my thoughts about it;)

  4. The 128mm is 100% fictional on turreted E-75, historically there was an assault gun project that would basically be a Jagdtiger II, 80 tons with the long 128mm and possibly an autoloader.

  5. DO NOT use this as a reward tank! this is what the german tree deserves as a proper T10 researchable tank!

    • You mean that you don’t want the possibility of getting a free Tier 10 tank? I play US heavies and am currently grinding to the T110E5 but I’ll take a free tank anyday.

  6. Sounds somewhat reasonable, though it looks at least odd. Though WG could create different turret for it instead awesome copy/paste mad skillz

  7. Nah… I’m sure uncle SerB will find something worse for the blody western capitalists.

  8. Imagine this as new tier X instead of E-100 and E-100 becomes that prize tank xD

    • Actually, there is enough historical material for an E-100 ausf B with rear transmission ;)

      • If only transmission hits wouldn’t set tank on fire, that’d be great.
        But now its needed to move whole thing to the back :D

  9. “The 128mm is 100% fictional on turreted E-75, historically there was an assault gun project that would basically be a Jagdtiger II, 80 tons with the long 128mm and possibly an autoloader.”

    “German engineers were aware of the transmission size problem, which was to be solved by the “ausf B” versions of E-50/75/100, it was actually called “Projekt B”, involving hydro-mechanic transmission and rear drive.”

    “Actually, there is enough historical material for an E-100 ausf B with rear transmission ;)”

    Zarax is a tease. :P

    • Thank spielberger, jentz and Doyle for the research, I take all information from them

  10. This is the german T10 heavy i want. It rly is. E75 is such an awesome tank with some improvements here and there it would be nice addition to the slow monster aka Maus and E100.

    Just the armament would give me some headache. The 10,5 is maybe a bit underpowerd. 225 might be a bit few for a T10 heavy. But at least it hase 285 gold penetration.

    Btw. were there any HEAT rounds planed for this gun?

    • 10,5 cm KwK 46 L/68 Ausf.B is not the one from KingTiger! Look at the last picture.

    • No but they aren’t much of a stretch.
      Germans were avid heat users so they would have developed such ammo

  11. it’s “Bad Oeynhausen”
    happens way too often that my hometown is written wrong

  12. >> The technical superiority of forward drive was recognized (tests by the Germans had shown that tractive effort was far greater with front drive)

    Could you please provide sources? Specifically with description and results of these tests?

    • Yeah I’m interested in that too, I want some proof cause i was called an idiot on forums for claiming front drive is better than rear drive ( “it’s all the same noob no difference omgwtfgtfo read some books” ) in terms of traction and stuff.

      • Oh how logical and intelligent. Judging from your over use of caps you need to grow up in one way or another.

      • Nothing about “tests” there – aside from part in brackets, rest of this paragraph is directly quoted in your article. So, no specific info. I am still very interesting about details, just from technical point of view, please provide other sources if you can find them.

  13. Staufen please, if someone points out something that is wrong, you don’t have to call them a troll and call them stupid.
    Just point it out that it’s wrong and provide sources.
    You don’t have to get all defensive and start calling names.
    Also, some proper english would help.

    Anyway, does this mean that the E-50M is somewhat historical?

    • Well, E-50M is somewhat similar to the Weserhutte project, although with many factual inaccuracies.
      Still, not as bad as GW Tiger P or VK7201.

  14. Ok, I will try one last time to reason with you…

    1) The weserhutte project is not something coming from WG, it’s something WE found in Special Panzer Variants by Spielberger.

    2) That chassis dimensions were very close between Tiger II and E-series is a very well known historical fact

    3) Again Spielberger mentions that one Tiger II chassis was being prepared for E-series suspension tests, which is where the front transmission versions are originated from.

    4) Nobody is saying that WG E-50M is the pinnacle of historical accuracy, just that as reconstruction is not that horrible, especially when compared to other jokes developed by them.

    5) First, it’s strawman, Strohmann is something very different. Second, you’re the one complaining about Doyle’s work.

    6) I spent a lot of time and some decent money to have good sources to prove my research, all I’ve seen from you lately is ranting and more ranting.
    If you want to make a point write your own article based on serious sources (and lexikon der wermacht or battlefield.ru websites are not among those), otherwise you’re allowed your opinion as long as you keep it civil but don’t expect anyone to take you seriously.

  15. Is the E50M seriously called M because the guy who designed it(in Minsk) has a surname that starts with M?

  16. It’s somewhat unclear, IIRC it had something to do with track tensioning, although I think one of WG military experts made a post about it explaining it better some time ago.

  17. I call this bullshit. People complain about copy/paste tanks, how about this piece of german crap? Aint this copy/paste as well?

    To much hyprocrisy.

  18. Great graphic skills SS.

    I do like this Tier 10 heavy, but I do feel its almost the same as a E75 with a different Gun and bigger HP pool. Perhaps something a bit different would be better, like a Heavy with the JagdTiger gun (Long 12.8cm) with lower ROF/Pen. Even an E75 with that gun, with 2200HP and all else the same would be very nice.

    Anyway, I do wish the E100 had the long 12.8cm or slightly more mobility (1500hp engine).

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  20. me want~
    its simply a JT with a turret…scary enough?
    i would really want the long 128 on the E-100 though :(
    would make it one of the best T10

  21. We will get our German tanks, when Serb starts loosing money, and not a moment before that…..Im actually surprised hes waited this long.

    Profits must still be up.

    I bet he’s already got sketches in his dev notebook. E100 B, Jagd75, Stug 100. Their going to be his Trump cards when this game dies out.

  22. Pingback: Reward T10 E-75 Ausf.W (“Weserhütte Tiger”) – Next Step | For The Record

  23. It’s a very pretty tank. I would be proud to populate tier 10 in the thing, assuming I could eventually earn it!

    The proposed stats seem quite balanced all around. RoF might be a little high, but I’m no balance guru.

  24. Pingback: Reward T10 E-75 Ausf.W (“Weserhütte Tiger”) – Next Step | XVM战绩插件中文化团队