German Changes in 8.8

This is NOT a complete list (thank you BonSie for a part of that). Beware – it has been confirmed that there is an error in the E50/E50M changes. I don’t know exactly what kind of, but consider them only informative, not absolute.

E-50M keeps its 1200hp engine, 150mm frontal armor

- 88mm L/71: ROF increased from 6,98 to 8,96
- 88mm L/71: aimtime reduced from 2,9 to 2,7
- removed the HL234 and HL230P45 engines
- increased the second turret hitpoints by 50hp
- Tank traverse: 23 > 26
- HP buff on HL210: 650 > 700
- 82mm armor nerfed to 80mm
- Turret traverse nerfed: 23 > 18
- View Range buff: 370 > 380

Tiger II
- speed buff to 38
- increased the stock turret hitpoints by 50HP
- removed the HL234 and HL230P45 engines, top engine has 700hp
- Weight decrease 71 > 70
- Tank traverse buff: 26 > 28
- 105mm L/68 on it – ROF buff: 5.26 > 5.77
- View Range Nerf: 400 > 390 (seems it has top turret in vid)
- Turret traverse buff: 25 > 27

- Speed Buff: 30 > 40
- Traverse buff: 21 > 30
- Top engine removed
- Max engine is HL234 with 900 HP

- Top engine Removed
- Biggest engine is now 234 with 900 HP
- Traverse buff: 26 > 32

- 10.5cm ausf B
- RoF Buff: 6.00 > 6.25
- Accuracy buff: 0.32 > 0.3
- Aiming Time buff: 2.3 > 2.1
New turret model for both E-50 (no changes)
- E-50 loses its top engine, frontal armor buffed to 150mm

- Engine is same as Panther changes, 700 HP.
- Traverse buff: 29 > 32
- Speed Buff: 46 > 55 (possible same for panther)
- View Range buff: 350 > 370

JagdPanther II
- Same speed increase to 55
- Traverse buff: 30 > 38

199 thoughts on “German Changes in 8.8

    • I think 150 mm front armour on the E50s is over buffed :S
      and they do it to have a reason to nerf them to hell :(

      Just my humble opinion

      • it does not have 150mm frontal upper plate, it has 120mm. if they lower that the tank would have no advantages over other mediums, it is THE BEST armored med in the game. i think it’s not fair to even mention such a fact now that around a third of the games i play there’s almost 50% tank destroyers.

        • I know that it has 120 mm currently :/ , but I think a 150mm buff would be to much “love”.
          Even now the E50 is kinda hard to crack if it’s played with mental sanity. ;)

        • It’s the best-armored medium in the game for two reasons:

          1) It’s also the BIGGEST tier 10 medium, and was in actuality a cross between a medium and heavy tank (had it been built it would have been a lighter alternative to the E-75 and E-100, but still a Heavy tank in every way).

          2) Due to its large size, its camo is terrible.

          3) That’s really the only advantages that the Germans have in all but the Leopard 1′s line: guns and armor, the latter of which isn’t as effective as it used to be because of the mobility-emphasizing metagame.

          • Well it was supposed to fill the medium niche – starting with the Panther the Germans had a pretty odd idea about what goes into that class. The E-75 was more or less the same tank with thicker plates for the heavy role.

      • Ok now i have no reason to continue painful grind with Leo PT A so i will be playing my E-50M daily.

    • In which way will it change? Will it be, you know, nicer? Because I think the current one is just ugly.

      • The new one will be so that the gun won’t cut anymore through the tank :) (Saukopfblende)

  1. Ouch. Just as I finish grinding the German TD line and buy the Jagdpanzer E-100 they get buffs :C

      • 690hp?
        Thats the first time I’ve heard that.
        But if you’re coming from a country using bhp (braked horsepower) be careful.
        German ps (pferdestärke = horsepower) is different.
        1 bhp = 1,014 ps
        which means a 700 ps Lamborghini Aventador only has 690 bhp in Great Britain.

        • It barely counts :D And the metric HP can be used in England they often make these mistakes. Typical idiotness of the imperial measurement, it should be banned…

    • I must be blind. I see they buffed the front armor a bit. Any more changes I may be missing?

      • Guessing they buffed glacis to 150mm thick, giving very sturdy armor plate (261mm effective against AP). But in return I guess they will nerf lower plate, losing very uniform, weakspot free frontal armor, excellent against +-220mm pen guns

        • It will help more against tier 10′s who would have been able to get through the upper plate anyway. It just means lower tiers will now be able to shoot through and deal damage. IF it has been nerfed.

          • I’ve actually been wanting a buff-nerf like thos for a while, except it would have been less extreme (~ 105 and 130 lower/upper plate), with depression buffed to -8 (with necessary turret reworks of course)

  2. I am liking Tiger II changes. Especially RoF buff :) I will survive with weaker engine as long as i get faster firing gun on it :)

        • The Tiger II right now has the lowest DPM and top speed of all tier 8 non-premium heavy tanks.
          After the engine nerf, the Tiger II should still have enough engine power to reach its new top speed, at lease on flat ground anyways (Also depends on the terrain resistance) .
          After the ROF buff the Tiger will move from the lowest DPM to having higher (1846.4) DPM than even the T32(1811.2) and just under the VK4502A.
          This puts it pass the IS-3, Caernarvon, and KV-4 with similar penetration.
          The German heavy tanks were never used for their mobility anyways, I take fire power over that engine any day.

          • re: The German heavy tanks were never used for their mobility anyways, I take fire power over that engine any day.

            man how wrong you are. On the contrary, tiger tanks were known for their good manoeuvrability, speed and superior handling. Medium tanks were not the speed demons we now have in-game.

            • TigerH and Koenig Tiger exploited that badly their mobility precisely because they had lesser firepower than any of their peers, because of terrible DPS and DPM value. Now they still have little DPS, but their DPM is actually very good, so yeah, if the mobility isn’t “bunker with very few wheels”-like, i think these changes are really good.

              E50M with 150mm frontal glacis? Where do i have to sign?

      • JPII… 10 more km/h and +8° traverse? holy shiaht.
        Keep the german buffs coming :3

        • Guys, seriously, they are giving you those things because they are removing the top engines, we will be lucky if they perform the same as before the patch. I’m expecting more nerfs than buffs. It’s wargaming, after all…

          • true… true…
            I love the JPII just as it is.

            But my guess is like:
            Speed-buff should be more clearly a “Vmax”-Buff… maybe he can reach higher speed overall then, but it will take ages.
            I’ve got clutchmaster on it already and turningspead surprises every Type and WZ xD. This could get an advantage in “surrounded situations”

            But the BIG problem I expect is: He will need really long time, to accelerate… and THIS is, where the great advantage of his mobility will die. Just as on my beloved T-50

  3. Oh great, 300HP less in the E75. So much for they wont touch it. If they at least gave me my 50k XP back that I used for unlocking an engine that no tank uses anymore, I could use these XP to instantly unlock the E100. But nooooo evil germans wont be compensated.

    • Why are you in such a rush to get the E-100? The E-75 is a fine heavy tank. At least it doesn’t cause everyone to fire only gold at you.

      • Because after they take away 1/4 of it’s horsepower it won’t be sao great anymore. At the moment I love this tank, too and am definetely in no rush. Or was at least. Now I want to finish it before the nerf.

        • I agree that E-75 is a fantastic tank, but I do fear that the lost of the top engine will hurt it. With the top engine mobility was just about right, the engine prior to the top one was frustrating.

          I also am uncertain of how I feel about the Tiger 1. Sure they buffed a lot, but would have loved to keep that extra armor.

          • E75 was unplayable for me untill I got that last engine… I feel like that top speed buff that u will never reach with 900 hp engine wont help much…. It should stay there but hey its german tank.

            • Do u have? No? So stop whining and bitching around FFS!
              As I said: Stupid german cry kids….

            • even driving on the street – hard ground – the e75 with 900 hp is painful. lowering medium terrain resist won’t help much.

            • They may have buffed the ground resistance on the E75 and they must have, because the old engine could barely reach 30kph, let alone 40. I was stuck on 20-22 on non-city map level ground. That said, the increased traverse is likely to compensate for the reduced engine power since the two are related to each other, so I wouldn’t expect the E75 to be too much more agile. If they do buff ground resistance, that’ll be great, if they don’t then this tank will feel sluggish again. Though either way, with the lower bhp, it’ll have trouble up hills.

            • Currently the E-75 have 1.3 ground resistance on hard ground (city streets), this is horrible considering that, let’s say the KV-1S have 1.1 on MEDIUM ground (grass).

              If they give it the ground reststance of the KV-1S (1/1.1/2.1) it will probably reach it’s top speed.

            • I see how u got ur name -__-

              KV-1S is mobile, cuz it is a light heavy tank, E-75 is a heavy heavy tank..
              so they wont give it that ground resistance, as the tonnage / m² is also a lot more then on KV-1S.

    • They may well give it to you. They just wont announce it to prevent people grinding the line just for the 50k free exp. Take one look at every compensation they have ever announced, people will play the line just for the compensation. See ELC addition and Russian heavy split for prime examples

      • There is no need to give it as a free exp. I’ll be happy if they just put it on the tank.

        Ideally, it would be great if we could choose which one to put exp in between E-50 and E-75 but I don’t think WG would go that much trouble.

        Just cut it in half (25K) and give them to both E-50 and E-75. Very ugly solution, but still better than nothing.

    • From all the days in the year, I had to unlock the top engine on the E-75 today -.- Bro didn’t read the latest changes:”Hey, they wont remove the E-75 engine, u can unlock it…” Last time I listened to him …

    • E-75 is pretty bad without the top engine. So bad that I got the top engine before the top gun.

      Well, it is german. When they can’t nerf it directly they just “rebalance” it by taking away its mobility. Can’t have german tank that is competitive within its tier…

      Best part. Just week ago I spent some gold to get that top engine. Just because I don’t follow some 3rd party blog religiously I’m being screwed over by wg… 50k exp, 2000 gold gone just like that… just fucking awesome. That’s what you get when you play german tanks. With that 50k exp I could have almost gotten that fucking gun instead. Never buying gold anymore. The greedy morons at wg can go fuck themselves.

      • Yeah, cant have a german tank perform good FOR TWO FUCKING YEARS.

        Get a hold of yourself, there are tanks that will suck much more then the E-75 even after this “nerf”. It’s way too mobile for a super heavy right now (And all the idiots that argue terrain resistanse doesnt matter should look at the IS-7).

  4. So… that 150mm armor on E50, is that on some special spot or both upper and lower plate is going to be 150mm?

    • Do you really believe they will let a medium tank have both the ufp and lfp at 150mm at that angle?

      • Duh, pretty much all tanks have a weaker LFP. I think the only exceptions are the current E-50, and ‘murrican tanks with thickened transmission covers (e.g. T1HT/M6, tier VI Shermans, Wolverine/Jackson).

        Besides, 263 effective armour across the entire front would be broken as hell.

        • Also, british tanks, the AT series has some of the strongest points at their bellies.

    • it will since ti only gets 30 hp with top engine what they have done :(
      nice changes on the tigers though

      • buff to tank traverse and certainly buff to terrain resistance = almost no change except when climbing hill.

        • And when rotating the turret.

          And, remember that best engine on E-75/E-50 had 15% fire chance.

          234 has 20%.

          So… it’s a nerf.

          What is more, acceleration will be probably worse.

          All in all – goodbye, good, old E-75.

        • But how much will the buff to terrain resistance will be? Most certainly NOT enough to compensate the loss of 300 HP. It’s a huge nerf to the E-75

  5. And all the tears of the noobs who play this game got fulfilled once again, first it was “nerf arties”, now it’s “buff Krauts”… WG really does listen to its costumers, maybe even too much…

  6. E50 and E50m 150mm frontal hull armor and bigger saukopfblende ?
    Fuck this object 140 i will grind the german meds *-*

  7. So… that 50K XP… is gone? It was long grind in E-75… and my XP is gone, we will get other engine… but, that’s unfair! I want my XP back! When they nerfed russian tanks, they took their guns, and they recived FREE XP, i’m not saying that I should get 50k Free XP, but maybe 20k Free XP? Because I wasted a lot of my time, to get 1200HP engine in E-75…
    Sorry for my bad english…

    • If you consider the time spent playing the E-75 to be wasted than maybe you shouldn’t play it or WoT in general if any time spent playing WoT is wasted for you.

  8. “150 front for e50 will be op”

    What a 60 ton tank that finaly can bounce a shot ? I call it necessary not op.
    I think only the upper front will be 150mm.

  9. 150mm on E-50 front? Oh boy, I can’t wait. :D
    I think I’m willing to sacrifice my top engine for these changes as long, as they wont take it away some time later.

  10. Ok i just have to ask because WG normaly brings the “it´s historical” argument. How much armor on the ufp should the E50 get in RL? So far i thought the 120mm are correct.

  11. The 120mm on t54 isnt correct too. Or the vk7201 stats are not realy “historic”.

    German tank enginering ended for some years in 1945. So there is no real historical data available.

    • It is corect for model 1947 (first production version). And don’t call it limited edition, 1200 were made, which is 2 x number of tiger 2 + JT.

  12. maybe with new traks in game tank work great…but with 870hp now e75 SUCK! i love now e75.. i dont want sell for nerf..

  13. Looks like some good buffs :) only thing that confuses me is the Tiger II speed buff, it couldn’t get anywhere near that speed in real life, which isn’t a real problem since most of the heavies in the game have a minor speed buff, but it still doesn’t seem to correspond with the previous roll the tiger II filled (A damage absorbing sniper tank with good performance on rough terrain. As I said though, not a big deal…

    • It doesn’t matter since with it’s top engine removed it will never see that top speed unless going downhill.

  14. ok so i grind 50k XP for an engine that i cant use any more ok np u buff (or not) the tank but what about the time i spend to grind all that XP i think that is not i have 137k xp on e75 with 50k xp the e100 was unlocked no ?!?! least give some xp back i dont know maybe half or give us 1-3 day of premium account…

  15. Right now E-75 reaches it’s top speed quite fast. I hope they wont turn it into a fucking IS-7 snail in need for a long downhill to reach at least 30km/h!!!!

  16. My good old E-75 friend , we had some epic days of rolling over n00bs but it looks like they are almost over .Until patch 8.8 is live I will only play the E-75 and save the replays , cause I am gonna miss him .

      • OP!? Oh you must be one of those crap players. BITCH YOUR KV-5 has 167 pen , 219 with gold , you don’t stand a chance to penetrate the E-75 frontally . Now go back to t5 and learn the game again.

        • Lmfao, you’re funny… Wait wait, were you serious? You think that KV5 is suppose to easily pen tier 9 heavies?

        • Is-8 is pretty easy. ST-I is hard. AMX 50 120 is easy. VK 4502 MG port and commander’s cupola are easy..Conqueror underplate is really easy…

          E-75 from front is impossible even with gold ammo (50% bounce on commander’s cupola)
          And the sides are also impenetrable aswell.

          And Skipyzor shut your gob before making untrue assumptions.

          • And here I thought everyone knew that the KV-5′s shtick is “heavy armor, mediocre gun”. Y’know, like most premiums.

            • Thats true, but the gun is awesome when you have knowledge of weakspots. But when you cant penetrate, armor wont save you cause weakspots everyhwere.

        • IS-8, M103, Conqueror and AMX-50-120 can be penetrated with that on certain spots…

          • AMX 50 120 can be readily penetrated straight on by a goddamn 13/90 pipsqueak if it loads gold, so that’s not much of a yardstick…

            • The awkward feeling when you remember the 13 90 actually has more pen than an KV-5 :D
              Seriously tough, KV-5 can and will pen the 50 120 turret with normal AP except if it dosent hit a very weird angle

  17. Everyone’s talking about the E-50′s armor, but am I the only one that noticed the engine nerf? C’mon WG, this thing already had bad acceleration, I usually hover around 45kph on rolling terrain when the listed speed is 60, don’t make it worse.

    • E50 Has Great acceleration and mobility, I hope it won’t loose it. It’s now best tank in game. All stats are decent, and does ramming like beast.

      • Maybe I was exaggerating on the E-50′s get-up-and-go, I’ve been spoiled a lot by the near instant acceleration of the Tiger H and Tiger II. Still, this makes me worried. The E-50 is an awesome rammer, but part of the key to that is high speed. If it can’t REACH that speed it’s a problem, and 150mm of frontal armor that I find holes in on a regular basis as it is isn’t really much compensation for lost speed.

        Now I REALLY need to get a Leopard.

  18. Ok, so what happens when I
    -already unlocked that top engine on the E-75 (which ist the same top engine)?
    -and lose that engine in the process that is never seen again

    Will there be some sort of compensation?

    By the way, the 150mm armor on the E-50/E-50M….is that a typo or is that real?

  19. What about the Tiger P? does it get the same L71 buffs, or does it somehow get a gimped version?

    • It’s certainly possible- just look at the tier IX Russians- the ST-I has arbitrarily worse RoF/aim time than the IS -8.

      • I sure hope the P keeps the old 8.8, the Tiger H really needs something that the P doesn’t…

  20. Does anyone know what’s about the VK 30.02 M – will it be unlocked if the Panther is already researched or not?

  21. Is there a compensation for the removed 1200hp engines? They cost over 100k each.
    Also, is the mobility going to be much worse for the E-50 and E-75, seeing as they lost 300hp engine power?

      • That is what I was meaning, now Tiger H has a more powerful engine, if there aren’t changes for Tiger P it will have more armor AND more hp, ergo why use the Henshel when the Porsche is better?

          • Keeping the current top engine for the P means it will have 20 more hp tah the H. The rate of fire is the main buff on the H, but since it’s the same gun it might be also buffed on the P, this is not the complete list, but till now the H was the “fast” Tiger, the P was the “slow and armored” Tiger, after the patch, the P will be the “slightly faster and armored” Tiger, and the H, what will it be? Just the “squared” one?

  22. Hm, how are they going to justify the removal of hl230 p45 from Tiger I, seeing it’s a historical engine?

  23. How about that for Tiger 2.

    Proposed upgrades:
    A version of the Maybach HL230 engine with fuel injection and uprated drive train was designed that would have increased the power to about 1,000 PS (986 hp, 736 kW).

  24. Another possible explanation for the engine changes:

    Removal of HL 234 and 230 P45
    Added the VK3002DB HL230 P30 engine (which is 700 HP)

    • Yeah, but they don’t say that. Even then that would be a loss of 50 hp on the third engine and a total loss of 170 hp. Without the promised top speed buff.

    • How is the E-50 and E-50M getting 150mm of armor on the front [which gives them better armor protection than most tier 9 heavies] NOT a buff?

      • E-50 lost 300 horsepower??? I imagine horsepower is more important to a medium than armor…

        • It does get some much needed hull traverse speed.
          Right now from what I see in game the E-50 turns worst than the M103, and even the Conqueror.
          It really depends on what they do with the terrain resistance, the E-50 might finally turn like a medium with the 32d/s traverse.
          But after the nerf the E-50 will have even lower hp/t than the Conqueror, test shall show I guess.

        • But it gets also better gun and terrain resistance. German meds with their weight were never real meds.

        • I suppose WG idea is E-50 no longer flanks it engages its enemies head on. They are probaly trying to make E-50 into main battle tank. Has better armor than usual meds but slower than usual meds, but still faster than heavies.

  25. DAMN IT Wargaming. I DO NOT WANT/NEED a RoF buff on my tiger. I want it as it is, a good sniper, not a goddamn DPM flanker/brawler.

  26. WHY?? WHY they had to touch E-75. That thing is biggest highlight of the german heavy branch. Nerfing from 1200 HP to 900 HP is bullshit. Oh look we buffed the speed to 40 km/h, but you won’t be able to reach it except on downhill. Fuck all the other buffs if it’s gonna lose it’s biggest engine. It will change the tank completely. Also E50 150mm frontal armor??? That thing eventough it needs some buff love with that armor will be ridiculous. Maybe even OP. Also if it lose it’s 1200HP engine it won’t be medium anymore but a slightly faster KT. It already is slow to accelerate and hardly reach it’s top speed and with 900HP forget about it. I do like some of the changes, but some of them are completely useless. I guess E-75 needed to be nerfed so we don’t have decent German tanks in the game anymore.

  27. where the hell is my 50,000 xp compensation for the top engine on my E-75 that is being taken away from me? Fuck you Wargamming you stupid pricks.

    • Yeah, good luck actually getting uphill with its new awesome engine power to be in a position to do that. Top speed means nothing when you cant even reach half the number on flat ground, just ask the amx 40.

      • I am pretty sure the E-75 with nerfed engine will do more than 20kph on flat ground.
        Even a stock KV-4 with even worst hp/t than the soon to be nerfed E-75 can do 30kph on flat ground.

  28. Anyone can verify if the source is actually correct? Or if this was photoshopped? (Granted, the E-50 remodel is hard to photoshop, but still..)

    • Panther:
      - Max horsepower nerf: 750 to 700
      - Speed buff: 46 to 55 (not directly seen in vid, but other panther variants have it)
      - Possible 7,5cm L100 RoF buff (not seen in vid)

      Panther II
      - Max horsepower nerf: 870 to 700
      - Hull Traverse buff: 29 to 36
      - Turrut traverse nuff: 28 to 30
      - 7.5mm L100 RoF buff: 12.5 to 14.29

  29. Overall they will accelerate slowe, but have higher top speed, which isnt important when we fight in terain, not some fucking long range dragstip. You need acceleration, not top speed in those tanks.

  30. that -300 hp engine power on e75 will have great effect on its performance lol, e75 already have a good acceleration for its weight with that 1200 hp engine, gonna love that acceleration on 1200 hp engine

  31. They’re buffing the L/71, huh?

    I’m liking this so far…(the L/56 could still use some buffs but it’s a step in the right direction)

  32. so JagdPanther gets a buff even though its already the best tier 7 TD there is.

    and the JagdPanther II will also be buffed while the T28 and T28-P stay as they are – worse than the French tier 8 TD in every way…

    • Do you have ANY experience with both the T28 and AC.Mle48?

      If you do you will know that T28 stomps Mle.48 in camo and aimtime… The aimtime sucks on the 48

      • camo ? sure, T28′s camo is better.
        aim time ? no, just no. try driving the AC Mle 48 at low speed.

        armor – AC Mle 48 armor 48′s armor is arguably better, T28′s armor is only slightly better because it has smaller weakspot, but has a big nearly-flat area that most tier 8s can pen with standard ammo.
        gun – AC Mle 48 definitely has better gun.

        don’t even need to mention speed.

  33. Finally the Tiger gets a huge Buff.. this Tank was so bad “Tier for Tier” – i am glad i kept it in my Garage

    This RoF increase is almost unbelievable (it’s a huge buff imho) is it confirmed?

    • Yeah, so bad…. I have in it 63,77 prc. win ratio after 138 battles, more then 1 frag per battle and if IRC at least 1450 dmg per battle. The only problem that tank had are brains of average people who are using him. (“I have almighty Tiger, so I will rush and crush!!”).

      With such insane RoF my Tiger will be totally OP beast :).

      Also buff for Jgpanther, well, nice another very good vehicle from my garage, which is buffed. Happy me ;)

  34. Am i missing something… Tiger and KT just lost 200 horse power and they calling this a buff… they will be sluggs

  35. How can they go and buff the Tiger H and not do anything to the Tiger P? Granted, the Tiger P does not need a buff by any means, but since it uses the same gun and virtually the same turret, shouldnt the RoF buff also apply to the Tiger P?

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