Storm talking about nerfs

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Source: http://world-of-kwg.livejournal.com/253902.html
Author: Storm

Storm recently made a post on the developer blog. Here’s its translation:

I’ve read another whine letter:

“ANSWER ME WHY DO YOU NERF IS3 I SPENT MONEY WHY YOU NO COMPENSATE I AM NOT HAPPY. YOU NERF IS3 WHY!!!! WHY DONT YOU NERF FOCH AGAIN! I AM STILL WAITING. TWO PATCHES ALREADY. WILL YOU NERF FOCH OR NOT. I JUST STARTED LEVELLING IT….”

(SS: the letter continues, broken Russian, typos, all caps, swearing… absolute idiocy)

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. And what do you think, what should we do about necessery nerfs and and changes based on documents, describing historical armor, that appear all the time?

Silentstalker: I can’t blame developers trolling and being tired of such bullshit. Storm is asking, what players think of the nerfs, the discussion is very large, here are the pieces of info he says in it:

- after the Japanese branch, there will be quite a long pause in adding new regular vehicles, only small numbers of premiums and various event tanks will be implemented, just a few pieces per patch
- the danger of OP vehicles according to Storm is that they eventually replace other vehicles of its tier in battle and the game loses its diversity, current diversity is sufficient. Storm on introducing OP tanks: “A tank is introduced, everyone slowly learns about it and random battles on its tier are slowly dominated by this tank. There is no diversity, interest drops, it’s bad for everyone and fucked up in general”
- models being reworked for new graphics? “I can’t say”
- there is no historical E-75 side armor: it was never defined anywhere, the tank was just a concept
- apparently, Storm gets such idiotic letters several times a day
- Zlobny in the comment section, commenting on Foch: “I will nerf it soon *diabolocal laughter*”
- Storm and Zlobny confirm that pre-nerf tier 5 derp HEAT spammers were OP, they were nerfed because they distorted the gameplay
- Zlobny on 105mm derp HEAT nerf: “It was a fix of the role change of certain configurations of some tanks. In the beginning, the 105mm howitzers were quite unpopular on tier 5 tanks until the implementation of gold shells for credits, that changed their role completely. We just returned them to their old role, so where’s the nerf?”
- regarding Marder 2 gun and viewrange: “the vehicle was fully reworked and not nerfed”
- Storm states that real vehicles, that have documented armor, have it historical in game (with exceptions), while “paper” vehicles, that did not have the armor even defined (SS: E-75) or were never built have the armor as a balance parameter (SS: for example, E-75 was nothing more than a Tiger II, simplified and streamlined for production), if a vehicle has a historical armor and this armor is proved to be different (for example by finding other documents), then the armor can be changed to new historical values (the Superpershing case was however simply a mistake)
- a player suggests “nerfing” vehicles by simply changing their economy (increasing repair costs, decreasing profitability). Storm states that this is a “pay to win” element and it is wrong approach. Storm adds that while artillery profitability (SS: or was it repairs? unclear) was nerfed at some point, it was to bring arty profitability to resemble other classes, before it was too profitable
- related to previous question, why increasing repairs is “pay to win”: “Rich wallet warrior can play on an imbalanced tank without having to care about credits. Such player would constantly play imbalanced tanks, he’d pwn and have good stats. A poor player wouldn’t be able to play imbalanced tanks – he’d run out of credits all the time. A classic pay to win case.”
- apparently, chaning vehicle armor have really strange effects on vehicle balance, sometimes it doesn’t change the stats at all
- making a micropatch is not easy apparently, there are lot of things that interfere with it
- the feedback (SS: from Russian players), gathered about maps, is being used in future map development
- Map Steppes will be reworked, “corridors” will be added
- Wargaming made IS-3 model after paper specifications, because on three different vehicles they measured, they found various armor thicknesses and angles, sometimes very significantly (SS: this is not unexpected, wartime and post-war Soviet tank industry worked with huge margins of error)
- IS-3 hull armor scheme will be changed further, specifically the side thickness on some parts was 100mm (current 90mm) and the angles are somewhat wrong
- there might be a tier 10 TD rebalance: guns with 850 alpha might be nerfed to 750 alpha, with the DPM remaining the same (ROF buff)

220 thoughts on “Storm talking about nerfs”

  3. oh boy, the 850 -> 750 and 1050 -> 900 and 1750 -> 1350 would solve everything, wish they did it as soon as possible

        • Damage should be based off of both caliber, and velocity, akin to how the Chinese 85mm grow in both penetration, and damage.

          A slow, weak 75mm AP like L/24 shouldn’t have the same damage as say, the L/48 when concerning AP shells. HE/HEAT/HESH damage should be dependent on caliber.

          • You kinda forgot a little something called “bursting charge”. Much of the time even the contemporary indexes don’t bother mentioning it (despite merrily providing the size of the bursting charge down to the gram), but an awful lot of the antitank shells were actually APHE.

    • the JPE and 183′s guns are fine. comparison point: Obj 261 180mm gun (1700 HE/1100 AP damage) and GWT 17cm gun. (1400 HE (identical to JPE)).

      it’s the 152/155′s that are too high. the 850 dmg guns can roll over 1050 with AP. the JPE was too much tradeoff for not much dmg gain, and this will help it. 183 is also balanced. those 1750dmg HESH rounds can do funky things with RNG. got hit by one for a whopping 234 dmg in my JPE

      • And now Foch(155) cant no more 1 clip Low HP Heavy like before(still got IS7). Anyway, this is the best way to re-balance tier 10 TD. JPE and 183 are still be the same because if they don’t have alpha damage, what they got? You don’t know how it feel when a JPE shot at a 268 do 9xx damage, when take a hit almost like that damage back (85x). It’s like “WTH the big caliber in my cannon for?”. IF they neft other TD alpha damage, finally JPE have some fear effect in battlefield. B

  4. Should have included the entire letter. Even with how terrible google translate was translating it it was hilarious to read.

  5. - there might be a tier 10 TD rebalance: guns with 850 alpha might be nerfed to 750 alpha, with the DPM remaining the same (ROF buff)

    and guns that deal 1000+ damage? :D

      • 1000+ damage tanks arent op, some people thinks fv183 is op but fv183 is actually worst tier 10, it has worse damage per battle than tortoise, if you fire %100 gold with tortoise and %100 gold with fv183, you can easly see tortoise better, and in real server peoples dosenst rush from middle, and jagdpanzer e-100 worse than our normal e-100.

        • It might not be OP but its not fun and not very pleasant when you get oneshot in your T9-10 tank as the bills are very high.

    • They are not really OP, they do have fearfactor but that’s all, 152/155 have both not-much-worse fearfactor and DPM.

      • That might be but wont be that a bit too big jump between tier 10 TDs if they leave them be ?

  6. “Map Steppes will be reworked, “corridors” will be added” Wait, what? So they will turn it into another bobsleigh map? Hope not. :(

    • Erh this comment panel… your typing to fast blabla..this was meant as a response to “troo”s comment

  8. Thanks much for the insights. I am beginning to understand and almost admire Storm’s logic and his merit/ ability point of view (no pay to win)……

    [Obviously, I need a couple of cold beers and serious psychological help].

    • Storm: good
      SerB: bad, very BAD

      I actually like Storm’s reasoning, but SerB’s is…questionable.

  9. regarding Marder 2 gun and viewrange: “the vehicle was fully reworked and not nerfed”

    does that mean i get refunded creds for prem shells on 76mm gun when 8.9 comes out or not?

      • Premium= 5 x more gold ammo %50 pay to win, all of us can agree but. , Gold ammo for gold= Simple %100 pay to win,.
        And worst thing about gold ammos is you cant know when your enemy going to use them. and it removes aimfactor in tier 10 tds, 450mm peneteration…and peoples who cant use meds as MED firing gold ammo and playing like a TD.

        • 100% “pay to win” for 1 guy on average per battle is still better than 50% “pay to win” for 10 guys per battle.

          Making premium ammo more affordable only makes the problem worse until the point where everyone can afford to use only premium ammo.
          And then we have another problem instead which is just as, if not worse than the “pay to win” aspect. The complete devaluation of armour, which already is a huge problem even with premium ammo as expensive as it is.

          • Mediums never had armor to rely on – whats the big deal? :D
            Go play mediums.

            Yet there is a few possible tanks with turrets so strong not even gold can pen :)

            • No, I’m actually really “old” here, I just usually don’t post on this account.

              Yeah, I totally deserved being called a “whiny dumbass” for discussing pay to win. What was I thinking.

            • You deserve to get trolled by Woras and called a dumbass in your face by me because you’re whining out of your sorry ass and don’t even understand what Pay To Win actually means.

              Dumbass.

            • Oh no, someone disagrees with you on the internet! Quick let’s jump on him and start insulting him.

              You would have thought getting banned on the forums would have taught you something. Apparently not.

            • Apparently you have yet to encounter the rather random – the slanderous might even say arbitrary and capricious – nature of the official forum moderation…

              Anyways, doesn’t change the fact that you’re A) whining B) unaware of what P2W actually means.

            • “Pay to win” = paying real money to gain an advantage over other player in a competitive game.

              The break even threashhold of someone using a premium account and/or premium tanks is much lower than someone who doesn’t. Which means the amount of premium ammo he can use before he starts losing credits will be higher than the non-paying player.

              Please explain how that’s not “pay to win”.

            • Yep, that’s exactly where your comprehension collapses. In what manner is it Pay 2 Win if I can get all the same performance-boosting shit *literally for free*? If someone paying real jewgolds for a prem account an’ shit can merely use it with less effect on his virtual-money budget – well, surely people need to get SOMETHING for their monies?

            • HowEVER have we managed without your *vitally important* and *peerlessly insightful* contribution, o Anonymous waste of oxygen?

          • In non-p2w games you get convenience and customization for your real money. Meaning out-of-battle boosts, like getting access to things faster and things like skins, cosmetic gear etc. In a non-p2w game you would also get credits and xp faster like in WoT, but then they wouldn’t have credit-gated performance enhancers.

            • As it happens in WoT you get both customisation (ie. temp camos, inscriptions and what have you) AND performance enhancers for purely virtual credits earned by simply playing the game halfway decently.
              You can buy those with real money too ofc, but why would you? Mostly it buys you *convenience and time* in the form of higher exp and credit earnings (prem acc), more garage space, more efficient crew retraining and dismounting complex equipement (my main and almost sole use for gold).

              That, sir, is *not* Pay2Win. I’ve seen P2W games – good thing I’m not into PvP in MMORPGs – and this isn’t.

  12. - there might be a tier 10 TD rebalance: guns with 850 alpha might be nerfed to 750 alpha, with the DPM remaining the same (ROF buff).
    Finally.
    152mm BL-10 – 750 dmg.
    +3mm to caliber – 850 dmg :D
    Where’s was the logic?

    • 20lb gun- calibre: 83mm, damage: 230
      30lb gun – calibre: 94mm, damage 250

      +11mm gun calibre, +30 damage

      infallible logic!

    • Don’t forget the T 30 has 155 mm for 750, and yet the 122 mm on the IS-4 has 40 more alpha than 120 mm on other Tier X and yet the 105 mm on mediums do 390 compared to 400 for 120 mm. There is no logic.

  13. The LFP on the IS3 looks alot smaller now,
    true the drivers hatch is a easier target now, and the sides and rear of the SLOPED turret were toned down, but the FRONT is now even tougher than before.
    I wouldn’t say it was nerfed.

    • The upper front is weaker by ~10 mm when facing the opponent directly, lower front was tougher than upper front for loooong time now, so no reason anyone would aim there unless he’s below the IS-3, the turret front (where nobody aims anyway) is stronger, but it’s only a small area and the rest of the turret is much weaker.
      It definitely was nerfed.

  14. there might be a tier 10 TD rebalance: guns with 850 alpha might be nerfed to 750 alpha, with the DPM remaining the same (ROF buff)

    Some kind of TD`s nerf is needed, but maybe in some cases ROF buff/alpha nerf will work as overall buff?..

    • Here we go, just as predicted. Nerfed Arty, TDs the became new perceived “OP” tank. Then heavies will be OP. Or Mediums. Then people can complain about arty again.

      NERF ALL TANKS!

    • Effect of 2shoting T8 tanks will be reduced. You’ll need 3 shots instead of 2 before. It could also work as a buff, but i think it’s better to have 750 higher RoF than 850 lower RoF

          • RoF “buff” at same DPM is not a buff. It’s the same tank, with a lower alpha strike.

            • If you can’t grasp the practical differences between higher alpha/lower RoF and vice versa I’m not quite sure we can have a discussion in the first place.

              As an aside, my personal preference runs for the latter chiefly due to a dislike of putting too many eggs in one basket if you see what I mean.

          • Allow me to clarify, what makes a 268 different than a T-62A is its alpha strike. Otherwise, people will just drive a T-62A to fill the role of DPM spammer since it’s more mobile and has a turret.

            TDs are just now finally filling a role in CW. They are diminishing that.

            • I’m starting to suspect you have rather strange ideas regarding why people play different tanks…

              Oh, and CW don’t mean shit to me one way or another so don’t bother with that stuff.

            • Perhaps you underestimate the number of people who would now drive a 263 over a 268 because the 268′s advantage, alpha, was lessened… so they will prefer the higher mobility and armor.

              If they go through with this… I’ll be pissed I didn’t choose the 263 line myself. If I had preferred a faster firing, higher armor, quicker tank, that’s the line I would have went down in the first place.

            • What, there *are* people who’d drive the O. 263? I’ve seen one in the wild like three times since the whole line was added you know. One (major) reason I’m grinding the things is for sheer perverse rarity value… and much of the rest is because I like weird designs.

              Anyways, your whole reasoning here is kinda suspect; I’m quite certain I’m far from the only player cheerfully driving around both high-RoF AND high-alpha type tanks.
              You sure you’re just not arbitrarily assuming your particular personal values (“alpha best hurr”) are universal…?

            • I’m not saying people don’t drive the 263 today. I’m saying people, like me, made a choice months ago on which line to go down. I said “Hm, this one has more alpha damage, this one has more armor and mobility.”

              I chose the one with more alpha damage.

              So I’m saying they’re taking the advantage of the 268 away, there’s nothing wrong with the 263 as it stands.

              I had in fact considered going down the 263 line as well. Now that they’re making them almost the same tank tank, like the T62-A and Obj 140, I’ll have to choose the better of the two and mothball the other. It’d be nice if that ended up being the 268 so I could save myself the grind, but I’m doubting it.

              Most likely, I’ll just not bother with the grind and play my 268 a lot less. I stopped playing arty.

            • Your priorities are your priorities. Why you seem to assume they have anything to do with other peoples’ is a bit of a mystery to me.

              On another note, beats me why the O. 263 line seems to be so unpopular. I’m at the SU-101 now and they’ve been fine tanks thus far – I guess people dig that big alpha act or something. *shrug* None of my business really, though I do wonder if those reload times aren’t kind of painful.

            • I’m advocating quite the opposite, that people’s priorities are different and they should be presented with a choice. Not two identical tanks. (Or one tank with an obvious advantage and one useless tank)

              As you said, alpha is the big difference. Yeah, the reload can be painful but that’s the trade-off. That’s exactly why it’s not OP and there’s no reason to take it away.

              If you take away that alpha, what is the point of the 268 now over the 263? They have the same DPM.

            • …may I point out a 200-point diff in average damage is, uh, still kinda major? If going from 850 to 750 (versus 550) amounts to “taking away the alpha” in your books then the issue is with your sense of scale…

            • Obviously there is a difference, but it is smaller, and not by an insignificant amount. 33% smaller. Now, that mobility on that 263 is looking a lot more appealing and the extra armor would be nice.

              Before it was a fairly even trade-off to give up those advantages for a potential two-shot kill or a higher-hp kill. Now, the 268 has a 33% less reason to exist.

              All because why? Whining Heavies think they should be able to cross an open field and survive.

              In other words, there are more reasons to keep the alpha than to take it away.

            • The Obj. 268′s mobility is no slouch, on many types of terrain the 268 can accelerate faster than a Leopard PT A, it also gets great turnrate and a relatively high top speed. The armor on the 268 is not that bad either, it is highly sloped and I have even seen Jpz.E-100s and other top tier tanks bounce off its armour if they do not know the weakspots. The 263 has very few advantages, the armour is only good because its weakspots are not well known, it is massive, and it has an open top which lets it be decimated by artillery. The T95 and Object 704 both did perfectly fine with 750 alpha guns when they were top tier, the new TDs could do so too.

            • So let me get this straight, Yaro – your problem basically boils down to “can’t reliably two-shot shit anymore”?
              …
              …
              .__.
              Really. How terrible.

    • stop ur arguments yarcod, they dont want to listen, bad players will always complain about OP tanks, the thing is I have seen the same amount of good players and bad players on foches or 268 or jpze100 or fv, a bad player will always complain about getting killed, they dont use cover, they dont move, they dont know mechanics, they just push or camp. In the other hand im seeing more and more OP players and u cant nerf them, u whiners should stop playing this game, everytime will be less pleasant for u to play.

  15. - Map Steppes will be reworked, “corridors” will be added

    What is this shit. God dammit, WG, we DON’T NEED MORE DOTA MAPS! What next, gun emplacements at the halfway and quarter/3quarter positions along each corridor? Why not just go full-retard and spawn groups of AI loltractors at the beginning of each corridor and path at each other. Make every tank stock and force people to get kill shots on the loltractors in order to accumulate in-match exp and credits to unlock and equip better guns/tracks/etc.

    Yes, World of Tanks DOTA/LOL/HON until the heat-death of the universe.

    • I highly think that Red Shire could use more of a rework than Steppes. Redshire is 100% worst in general, how many of you have suffered a draw from this map? Raise your hands (Raises mine)

  16. - regarding Marder 2 gun and viewrange: “the vehicle was fully reworked and not nerfed”

    Suuuuure…

  17. dont nerf mah object 416,
    dont nerf mag su 122 54
    dont nerf mah wz 120
    dont nerf mah leopard

    plzzzzzzz

  18. “Rich wallet warrior can play on an imbalanced tank without having to care about credits… A classic pay to win case.”

    Sounds like premium rounds for silver to me.

      • Honestly I would prefer premium ammo not be in the game… but I know that will never happen. This is the best way they can implement it, but it’s still clearly pay-to-win.

      • Nah, I actually think he’s right. Think about it in a more simple way if you can’t do the easy math:

        If a tank is more expensive to repair it requires more credits to play. Therefore, it requires premium account or some shit.

        If you have a tank like T69 that has a garbage pen gun at tier 8, but a lot with gold ammo (premium ammo), that is not pay to win? Because it doesn’t require more credits, right?

        Or here’s a better one, if a tank requires more credits to play, isn’t it just the same with E-100 for example played with gold ammo? Doesn’t that make it an expensive tank to play?

        Let me guess… it’s free to play because you don’t have to use gold ammo, which requires more credits, right? (and then not to pen anything with standard ammo). But if you can’t maintain a tank due to repairs, that’s pay to win, right? Because… it requires more credits?!?…

        1+1 = 2+0, I say Storm is just bullshitting and doing double standards. If you wish to join him in this dumb logic, it’s your choice. but I call Storm’s shit bull.

        • Lol, E-100 dont need gold ammo if your aim is good (cant tell the same about those 50-44WR :D).
          T69 has low pen? How terrible.
          My KV-5 has even lower pen but I can still kick ass with AP only.

          All in all – HANDS!!!

          • Best way to look like a complete retard is to say crap like this. It is obvious that E-100 is much better with premium ammo, just as many other tanks. You don’t need it is not a valid argument. You don’t need ammo at all, you can still ram your opponent. But will you have the same performance?

            Please find a nice bridge and crawl under it.

            • Which hardly equals having to shoot gold ammo all the time, given that T10s meet T8s often enough to speak nothing of the pipsqueak scouts. T10s aren’t supposed to be self-funding anyway so the point is moot.

          • “low pen gun” is epic excuse for every T69 cockfag.. T-44 have 175mm pen gun (3mm more, big deal), and I run over it without much of a problems, without using APCR, and I used same LB-1 to max out T-54.. they are just too lazy to aim and flank others.. it is much easier to spam HEAT…

            • Oh but…but the difference’s even less. T69 with top gun has 173mm while the stock has 175mm.

              It’s really crap compared to the Pershing’s top gun with it’s whopping 180mm…oh…wait…

    • Exactly. Put premium ammo on your tank -> permanent buff for your tank. Rich wallet warriors can afford it, poor players can’t. Classic pay2win scenario. :)

      Hello my sweet T-54.

      • Poor player here, has no problems affording more prem ammo than he actually uses.
        You only need P2W if you’re too much of a tomato for F2W. :|

        • Oh poor you. Only a shitload of tanks and a few T5 premium tanks in your garage. You are not poor. Poor players are those who have 0 gold, no premium tanks and only a few garage slots with a few tanks.

          Really, just stop it, don’t make an idiot out of yourself.

          • Those were bought long ago when I actually had disposable income for such amusements, which is not the case these days. And your argument is invalid; for one, I don’t even need to play my prems (originally purchased as cash cows), or even middle-tier “keeper” cash cows, anymore to keep the budget in the black even before factoring in the daily 250k mission. (T5 prems also aren’t exactly major earners AFAIK…) For another, more garage slots merely allows for more diversity in the roster – I fail to see how having fewer of them would preclude anyone from earning credits all the same with that smaller pool of vehicles.
            Hell.
            Should actually be EASIER due to faster crew exp gains…

            • Churchill III and T-25 is much better money maker than regular T5 tanks. In case you missed it, WG has buffed many low-tier premium tanks’ income.

              And your argument is bullshit. It doesn’t matter how well you perform with regular shells, you will perform better with premium ammo. Less random low penetration shots, better chances to pen the armor of higher tier tanks, only an idiot can’t see why is higher pen better than lower.

              Maybe you have xx% W/R now, but if you use premium ammo, you can easily have 5-15% higher W/R. With the same skills, same tactics, but with OP ammo. That is what common folks call pay2win.

            • *eyeroll* The last I heard T5 prems were considered inferior moneymakers to T8 ones, which is what I was talking about. Moron.

              Also what the fuck do you *think* I carry a stock of prem shells in every tank for? Picnic lunches with elderly relatives? They’re for emergency use against opponents too tough for the regular shells to handle, which as it happens is also what they were issued for IRL. Most of the time the regs do the job just fine however and in most cases they don’t, such as hull-down Murrican heavies, prems would make no difference.
              Hell.
              Given their inherent limitations with slopes and spaced armour HEATs are *worse* for many scenarios…

              Now the thing is, I can buy those prem shells for credits which are a purely virtual currency; earning them takes nothing more than some time and effort and is achieved on the side of accumulating Exp anyway. That’s not exactly P2W.
              It would be if they were (still) only purchasable for gold, in practice, real money.

            • While you are farming with a normal tank, you can’t use premium ammo. Why? Because your profit would go away. With premium tanks and premium account, you can farm and use premium ammo at the same time. And this gives you better stats. For a waller warrior, THERE IS NO FARMING. There is just one endless premium ammo spamming statpadding gameplay which also gives credits.

              If you don’t understand it, you are stupid.

            • *shrug* Most of the time you don’t NEED premium ammo in the first place. And it’s not even relevant if what you’re after is just credits, because then the aim isn’t so much winning the round (though that certainly doesn’t hurt) but turning a profit.

              If you want to pay real cash to skip the credit-farming part that’s your business. It’s no skin off my nose – quite the contrary actually as it pays for the game – and your stats are completely and utterly irrelevant to me.
              Plus prem accounts, tanks and shells sure as Hell don’t compensate for PEBKAC which tends to be painfully evident in many higher-tier matches… both in the stats and the performance witnessed.

            • You really are just a poor player. You don’t understand that with premium tanks and premium account, you will be so fucking rich, that you don’t have to choose between using premium ammo or profit. You can have both and still have a shitload of money.

            • Oh I am well aware of that; my brother has the disposable income to keep himself permanently on premium and is a rather better player than me to boot (as in *seriously* good), and the last I heard about it he had like 41 million credits and nothing to spend those on.
              So?
              I can still quite well afford to use the prem ammo I actually *need*, and as advancing tiers is not an end in itself as far as I’m concerned I don’t particularly mind the slower credit accumulation.

            • Lest we mention the free slots you receive for gift premiums from WG, missions, free gold you received during this and that offer(changing passwords and gamescom comes to mind).

              Oh you damned wallet warrior, how dare you?!

      • You live in a dream world, Kellomies.

        You have no tier 10′s and haven’t run very many rounds in your tier 9s and 8s. Start funding those and you can come tell me how you have more credits than you can use.

        I’m no “tomato…” and I’m almost always short credits for my next tank. And I run very few premium rounds.

        • High tiers aren’t *meant* to be self-funding, genius. That said ATM I mostly play my Tier 8s and 9s (becuase grinding) and the overall credit balance stays positive already before the daily 250k cashes in.
          But yeah, the high tiers cost an arm and a leg to buy. So? Prem acc just means you accumulate the needed creds faster; that’s paying for time, not paying to win.

          • “Rich wallet warrior can play on an imbalanced tank without having to care about credits… A classic pay to win case.”

            So… I guess you’re in disagreement with Storm. This WHOLE thread is based on that statement.

            • How about you read the whole of the answers and not just the bit that happens to look convenient out of context?

            • Yep, just listen to this guy and listen to what Storm said. Having expensive OP things in the game is pay2win. And what the fuck is not OP about premium ammo when compared to normal ammo? It’s exactly what Storm said. An expensive thing that gives you an advantage. Classic pay2win case. There isn’t much to argue about it. Storm was talking about OP tanks, but the situation is the same if you look at OP ammo. Or OP consumables.

              Premium account + premium tank = almost endless premium ammo supply. With some tanks, you can make money while you are spamming premium ammo so you are statpadding and farming credits at the same time.

            • Please, enlighten me on reading comprehension. How are tank repair costs any different than ammunition costs?

            • Whether you use premium ammo or not is, ultimately, optional. I carry 5-15 per tank and usually don’t have to use any in a given match.

              Repairing a busted tank… not so much.

              Now, more to the point, these are virtually polar opposite questions not to mention more or less entirely different. Whether you buy and use prem ammo and cons is purely up to you and if you consider it worth the expense; neither is *necessary* if you can play worth shit, just convenient.
              Repair costs, OTOH, are obligatory and thus no way to balance a tank against its tier-peers.

            • It is entirely optional, however, to drive that OP tank.

              So drive a more powerful tank all you want for more credits or shoot a more powerful shell all you want for more credits, again, I ask what is the difference?

            • In principle perhaps, but that’s hardly a reason to make one is it? All the more so as WG already has a longstanding policy of making prem tanks weaker than fully upgraded regulars of the same class and tier, or as SerB likes to put it, “we don’t sell pwnage”.

              Besides… want a more powerful tank that’s more expensive to run?
              Move up the tiers.
              Want to pwn tier-peers? Play better.

            • I didn’t say they should make a more powerful tank that’s more expensive to run, did I? I’m asking them to NOT sell advantages.

              Or as you say “want a more powerful tank that’s more expensive to run?”
              Buy premium shells.

            • Premshells are optional for grinding through/playing any tank, despite what assorted whiny baddies try to claim. They’re convenient, but for the most part don’t really make a big difference.
              Also not really a balance characteristic.

              Rather different already at the conceptual level from a tank whose performance relative to its peers is ONLY ‘balanced’ by a relatively enormous repair cost… already because those superior performance characteristics already make the latter that much less likely to occur unless the player is a total dweeb (and very little helps THOSE cases).

            • Let’s use the example of the IS-6 as it stands currently.

              Let’s pretend it’s two different tanks, IS-6 standard ammo only and IS-6 premium ammo only. We’ll call them IS-6s and IS-6p.

              IS-6s has pretty bad penetration for its tier. Its poor accuracy can make it difficult to hit weak spots on many tanks. A good player can get the tank in the right position to penetrate most tanks frontally, but not all. IS-6s makes lots of credits since it is a premium tank.

              IS-6p has good penetration for its tier. Its poor accuracy is compensated for by its ability to penetrate most tanks armor if it misses a weak spot. A bad player doesn’t really need to get into any particular position to penetrate most tanks, and can penetrate all tanks if it manages to hit a weak spot. IS-6p usually breaks even on credits with a win, and will lose money with a loss.

              Now, obviously these are extreme examples and a player would have a load out that isn’t 100% one type of ammo. But, depending on the players ability (or lack of it) combined with their ability (or lack of it) to buy credits, pushes the tank more towards one end of the spectrum than the other.

              Smart players use premium ammo judiciously but will sometimes bounce a standard shell that a premium shell would have otherwise penetrated. Owning an IS-6p would take away that disadvantage.

              In other words, credits, typically bought in one way or another, CAN buy wins, even (especially) for bad players.

            • You’re giving me a headache you know. Might I point out that prem shells and consumables for that matter do NOT buy you wins.
              They buy you *performance improvements*, and mostly rather minor ones at that.
              Converting THOSE into wins is up to the player, and neither skills nor brains are something for sale. Better pen does you fuck-all good if you YOLO into the crossfire of several enemies, try to duel something way out of your weight class, have the tactical chutzpah of a concussed hamster, “defend arty” in a bush behind the friendly base and/or sommit any number of other offenses against good sense and your team’s chances of winning like depressingly many Grade A organic tomatoes witnessed in the wild.

              Need I remind you that prem shells weren’t always purchasable for credits, and good players tended to wipe the floor with the baddies regardless?

            • Kellomies on fire, need a truck to sooth it down?

              And to fuel some fire, here’s some:
              How many shots you know you pen with prem ammo vs you can’t on normal? I can say plenty of my head. I’m skilled and know angles and penetration values of almost any tank with prem and normal ammo… I suck at HE, but I’ll manage without that.

              What does this knowledge give me… oh I know I can pen a tank with a higher cost but it will increase my ability to affect the game more than before golden to silver ammo. So I give some premium account and drive few tier 8 to fund them more on EVERY tank I own… Thus I pad my stats and my performance because I KNOW when to use correct ammo… For every ounce of knowledge gathered I save credits, thus I need to grind less money and thus pad my stats more with increased penetration over normal ammo… I just lose money and gain performance.

              What part of above is not pay to win?

            • Your ability to regurgitate the already claimed is impressive but not exactly worth my time, dandelion-eater.

              What parts of “can be bought with credits” and “your statpadding is solely your personal shame” were too complicated for you?

          • The part you can shoot gold ammo regardless the tier you play because you will be on the positive with smart thinking, thus you inflate your performance to what you cannot do without the exclusivity golden ammo gives.

            So pay to win… or suck it on some grind tanks without expensive ammos to get the credits you need to play with gold ammo on some other tank…

            First can play prem ammo anytime he wants due to premium, second cannot. What part is NOT pay win? Fundamentally you get more creds, thus you can spam more prem ammo thus you can win more. You do know how much the difference is, but you are bit outnumbered on this debate.

            The gap between golden and non golden was lowered with the nerfs, don’t you think it had nothing to do with premium ammos becoming more abundant? And it having more creds, thus funding more prem ammo is not pay to win on long term, I guess you battle on your own blindness due to where you just don’t see what gives advantage and what not.

            I guess you say mods don’t give advantage neither, now do they?

  19. - a player suggests “nerfing” vehicles by simply changing their economy (increasing repair costs, decreasing profitability). Storm states that this is a “pay to win” element and it is wrong approach.
    Good jab at WT.

  21. Huh, it’s surprising to see the devs talk about how gold rounds aren’t supposed to make a tank OP. I’d say that T-54 falls into this category. Though I’m just hoping for a regular AP buff to the tank so I don’t have to spend so much on HEAT when I get to it.

    • Gold ammo too expensive? Don’t use gold ammo.

      Tanks too expensive to repair? Don’t play tanks.

      Double standards make developers gay.

          • Let’s all give a long slow applause for this first-class demonstration of preschool sandbox wit.

            • Wow, you’re pathetic. In my language we have a word for people like you. It’s “lingău”.

            • If you’re trying to hit me with (anti) nationalist bullshit, that ain’t going to work. You see, I’m not a nationalist, I don’t really care about countries, I don’t get all excited or angry when somebody speaks about my country (ggod or bad). If you want to troll with nationalist crap, go insult some pole or some russian, you narrow minded hypocrite.

            • Oh blow me Woras :). Please do tell me what does it say about him?

              12yo are everywhere and just as dumb regardless of nationality.

  22. It is pretty hilarious how self-contradictory those dev answers are. Tanks being op because they are too expensive to run is pay2win but tanks using prem ammo to be op are not pay2win. Or how lack of diversity is bad but still kv1s, hellcat, t49, foch155 or t57 are not problem. Or 105 mm shells are not op but the said shells were still nerfed hard after making them op on purpose.

    The developers of wot and their answers give pretty good insight to how bad these said “developers” are at making decisions about this game. Total lack of common sense, total lack of spotting the obvious problems and total denial of ever having made even one single mistake. Everything is always working on as intended even when it is so fucking broken you can see it even with your eyes closed.

    Here are the obvious problems of the game:
    - some tanks are and remain op while others remain up
    - too much alpha damage on t10 TDs
    - gold ammo makes armor useless
    - huge emphasis is put on by wg to introduce more pay2win aspects into the game. Running costs of all tanks are rising all the time, new consumables are buyable with credits and all this is done just so people buy premium account time and more op prem tanks (su100y, is-6, su-122-44). Never ever have the players been able to buy wins more easily than today in wot.

    serb and storm are a joke.

    • Somehow I drive premium tank or not, shoot gold ammo only or not, use premium consumables or not….
      …
      …
      Platoons give 99% better chance to win than all of these combined.
      Your arguments are invalid on p2w.

      And of course running costs increase – how else would devs make people buy stuff?

      Very frigging smart you are? Go make your own game.

      • Apparently he’s at least twice as smart as you are, since he can spot the double standard. What you did is saw that his argument is valid and then turned to explain the business model. The same business model that was stated by Storm that it would be pay2win if they made some tanks more expensive to repair. Dude, your logic is a fucking joke. Go make more European randoms, at least those are funny. On this subject you failed, your boolean processor is malfunctiong.

        • Your cunt logic is just great.
          Who forces you to use gold ammo on some tanks? Play better then.
          Or how SerB would say: “Dont like it – dont play it”.

          • Who forces you to buy tanks that are expensive to repair? Go back to school. You missed some logic classes.

            • Once again you are missing the point (probably you’re hard with understanding english).
              Im not the one who complains – hell, I can play only T10 for a month and wont give a damn on credits :D

    • If you can’t afford all the prem shells and consumables you need with regular acc, PEBKAC. ‘Cause I sure can. Hell, nowadays I don’t even need to play my designated cash-cows to stay in the black *before* allowing for the current 250k a day mission…

      And please explain the logic according to which formerly gold-only (ie. real-money only) shells and consumables now being purchasable for completely free (save for the time invested, and wtf do you play this game for anyway?) virtual money amounts to “introducing more P2W aspects to the game”?

      • whats the difference beetwen being 2 shoted on a tier 5 and being 2 shoted in a tier X? why we dont complain about kv2 or s35CA or PZIV or even Alecto? stop whining!!!!!!!

  23. 850 alpha to 750, finally, can belive it.

    if they bring more shit like WT E-100 or light Löwe as T10 they better should bring no new tanks.
    heavy Löwe T8 and the light one with less armor and same gun is T10, ah yes …
    they do panzer III to T10 if necessary

  24. - regarding Marder 2 gun and viewrange: “the vehicle was fully reworked and not nerfed”
    ___________
    So now it’s called fully reworked.

    - making a micropatch is not easy apparently, there are lot of things that interfere with it
    ___________
    It was easy enough when dirty capitalist scums tried to make some cash on british 83mm shells.

    - Map Steppes will be reworked, “corridors” will be added
    ___________
    WHY??? One of the better maps out there that no one actually complains about is gonna get “reworked” and we still have dumb shitty maps such as imbalanced Redshire, or dumb choke point Pearl River where 90% of the map is ignored and everyone just cramps in that little canyon.

    - IS-3 hull armor scheme will be changed further, specifically the side thickness on some parts was 100mm (current 90mm) and the angles are somewhat wrong
    ___________
    Oh yes, oh yes!!! Obviously 90mm of that magic armor wasn’t eating enough shells to work as intended, we’ll just increase it to 100mm. And what about historical accuracy? I really fail to see it on new 8.9 model compared to RL tank.

    8.9: http://imageshack.us/a/img841/6147/ol6e.jpg
    RL: http://www.sztab.com/tapety/IS-3%20130212,1.jpg

    Lower plate wasn’t sloped enough? Double standards mucho?

      • True. And thats why it would be better to make it more like a “historical” model. Buff the upper plates significantly, but make the lower plate obvious weakspot(like Tiger 2). Right now it’s the other way around and imo it’s much easier to shoot UFP than LFP. That way they would solve several issues with one strike.

    • Well…I’ve had an odd 175mm…whatever bounce off the pike nose from time to time. Otherwise the IS3 happily eats shells with it’s ammo rack.

  25. - quote: “related to previous question, why increasing repairs is “pay to win”: “Rich wallet warrior can play on an imbalanced tank without having to care about credits. Such player would constantly play imbalanced tanks, he’d pwn and have good stats. A poor player wouldn’t be able to play imbalanced tanks – he’d run out of credits all the time. A classic pay to win case.””

    this is exactly what gold ammo does, and why gold ammo in random battles is P2W

    • Random battles are so random (unicums lose, horde of tomatoes win) that such stuff for credits dont even matter – only those who survive to the end are significant.

      • And yet, if a tank is more expensive to repair, all of the sudden that breaks the fucking free to play concept. Because of the same fucking difference. As in, repairs are played with real money, not credits, right?

        (Zmeul scuze, dar Woras e de-a dreptul imbecil, nici macar troll nu cred ca e.)

        • Google translator wins (technology ftw). You are just 12 year old closet troll from Romania.
          And how much tank is more expensive? 5%? 10%? MAX 15%?
          Wow, p2w…
          Play better – dont get shot – deal damage.

        • The higer tier you get the expensive the repair bill is there for a reason

          Simply put it there to prevent you from playing high tier all the time
          (well you can if you are good player)

          Why? you ask, because then everybody will just play high tier just like in the test server.
          Then you will not have any match suited for low tier/new players which in time will hurt the diversity and bored most people from the game.

          It may not be perfectly true but that should explain a bit imo

        • “As in, repairs are played with real money, not credits, right?”

          wat.

          Also if you weren’t aware the higher-tier “running costs” are MEANT to preclude self-sustenance, so that the middle tiers remain populated and everybody doesn’t just play T10s.

          • Aw, come on man, do you just jump to comments without reading the stuff?

            It was about this:
            “- related to previous question, why increasing repairs is “pay to win”: “Rich wallet warrior can play on an imbalanced tank without having to care about credits. Such player would constantly play imbalanced tanks, he’d pwn and have good stats. A poor player wouldn’t be able to play imbalanced tanks – he’d run out of credits all the time. A classic pay to win case.””
            In which case I was saying (like others) that premium ammo is the same thing, only that it is advertised as not being pay2win. But it is. It’s the same exact shit.

            • Funny how a poorfag student like me can still afford to use it without prem acc…

              Also he’s talking about apples and you’re talking about cheese while claiming it’s oranges. Unless you’re trying to claim something idiotic like the top-tier tanks (whose running costs are at least meant to preclude “self-financing”) being OP per definitionem…

  26. still doesn’t explain why the fuck do they keep nerfing german tanks, honestly, what the fuck is wrong with WG that they do that almost every time they can ??? VK is now V-SHIT , BOTH OF THEM!!!!! (having 55% win ration on both and over 300 battles on both i think i know what i’m talking about!!!) honestly STORM , FUCK YOU and whoever takes these decisions to USELESSLY NERF tanks that don’t require any damn nerfing!!!!! THIS should be the letter you’re getting you MF!!!!

    • Please post full list of “constant nerfing of germans tanks”.
      Because Tiger was nerfed with DPM.
      Because KT cupola was nerfed.
      Because top speeds of Tigers was nerfed.

      Another ignorant idiot of masses.

      • biggest IDIOT is you my friend!!! have you ever played 36.01H ??? have you ever played 30.01H ??? STFU!!! tiger got a mini-buff while at the same time loosing the most valuable things, ENGINES!!! E-75 got huge engine nerf that they later even admited themselves so please ignorant BIAS PRO russian, give me a break! I play both russian and germans and Russians are always way more OP this explaining clearly why KV1S won’t be getting any nerfs ever!!! and 132 PEN ??? are you fking kiding me??? Konish nerfed for no fucking reason??? you’re the ignorant who just kiss soviet ass all day.

          • Don’t play germans? Don’t make them undepowered just to make your russian tanks look cool dumbass WG IDIOTS!!!

            • Dafuq you babbling about, VK36H is majorly badass. The Konisch can easily lay on the pain on just about everything it encounters.
              Well.
              Assuming the player isn’t a fucking tomato of course.

        • because it was soo “necesarry” to nerf tanks that where already crappy in the first place that didn’t needed any damn NERF DUMBASS WG LOGIC with all its minions supporters!!!
          *ahahah lets drink vodka and smash german tanks with soviets because it’s our game, our rules duhuhuhu*

            • if i would be high i wouldn’t be able to post in here you already very well known wannabe communist .

            • For a wannabe communist I sure would appear to be managing both German tenks and the game economy better than you.

        • Well you get the 30.02 M out of the 30.01 H which is a very good tank while the 01 H is like a new HT in tier 5 as for the 36.01 H no comment from me.

          And yes I kind of feel the German get lot of beating from the bat compare to Soviet, Still I don’t thinks it is to the level of unplayable. But it is not always nerf and the tank still fun to plays so no complain from me

    • Oh really bubba? Germans nerfed…oh noes. Please do tell me where the hell does the tiger 2 have the room for a 15cm piece of solid steel on the commander’s hatch? That guy must enter the tank by method of extrusion.

      Poor everything else woras says..that makes the tanks completely unplayable and I’ve haven’t seen them in randoms for a long time(this morning)

  27. - Map Steppes will be reworked, “corridors” will be added

    One of the best maps in the game going to get ruined, whee!

  28. As someone who has 3 of the 4 TD that would be effected by removing the 100 alpha increase the tier 10′s have over their tier 9 counterparts, it would be a good thing.

    • They nerfed arty, made TDs “too powerful.”

      Then, predictably, the cries come to nerf TDs. They nerf TDs, make heavies too powerful.

      Then they nerf heavies, make mediums too powerful.

      Just take everything to 0 dmg and get it done with.

  29. - the feedback (SS: from Russian players), gathered about maps, is being used in future map development

    cause the opinion of the other 4 servers doesn’t count

    • The Chinese server is effectively its own world and I’m pretty sure the RU server population handily outnumbers the rest put together.

  31. First they came for the arty,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t an arty driver.

    Then they came for the TDs,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t an TD driver.

    Then they came for the heavies,
    and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t an heavy driver.

    Then they came for my medium,
    and there was no one left to speak for me.

    They all told me to “L2P” and cried that arty was OP again.

    • There’s a layer of Hell reserved for people who banalise monstrous tragedies for cheap attempts at rhetorical points.

      • There is no “shock factor” intended here. This is simply exactly how it will go down.

        People whine like the rock from rock-paper-scisors complaining that paper is OP.

        You nerf paper, now rock becomes OP.

        Don’t nerf paper, you already nerfed scissors.

        • In the case you haven’t noticed… the playerbase whines about EVERYTHING. All the time.

            • WG doesn’t really give a shit about “the community” whining about stuff, which incidentally a lot of posters here seem to find personally offensive. What they *do* give a shit about is aggregate server-level statistical data about vehicle performance.

  32. - regarding Marder 2 gun and viewrange: “the vehicle was fully reworked and not nerfed”

    Nor was it buffed, which means it’s still a piece of shit.

  33. - regarding Marder 2 gun and viewrange: “the vehicle was fully reworked and not nerfed”

    haha.. really got to lough at that one, it wasn’t reworked or nerfed, it was simply destroyed… such a good tank is now so useless. Marder 2 is just a travesty now.(And yes I know it did need a slight nerf but it didn’t need to be made utterly useless)
    As Jingles says derp gun without the derp. Just feels like your driving artillery in td mode now.

  34. Dear WG, oh no, don’t rework Steppes. You will fuck this great map as you did it with Serene coast.

  36. here might be a tier 10 TD rebalance: guns with 850 alpha might be nerfed to 750 alpha, with the DPM remaining the same (ROF buff)

    lol and whats about the other 1000+ dmg guns? nerf them too

    • Considering the appalling ammo load I doubt the 183 is going to take well to an alpha-for-Rof regime…

  37. >> Map Steppes will be reworked, “corridors” will be added

    Motherfuckers. The lack of corridors was the reason I listed the map in my top-10 maps in that feedback LJ-post.

    • Yeah Steppes is a great map atm because campers are easy targets, there is nowhere to hide. If they turn it into another shitty campfest by adding “corridors” where you can hide then I’ll not be happy.

  38. So rich players having an advantage with imbalanced OP tanks because they can afford them more often is P2W. Now a rich player can afford using premium ammo more often than a poor one – but that is not P2W? I had been saying that premium ammo for credits is as close to P2W as can be, and got flamed to hell for it – and now WG.net indirectly confirms that I was right.

  39. - there might be a tier 10 TD rebalance: guns with 850 alpha might be nerfed to 750 alpha, with the DPM remaining the same (ROF buff)

    I see a problem with this, this is a direct answer to all the idiots whining on the forums about the tier 10 TDs. Just to knock off 100 damage and increase the rof seem like a nobrainer nerf to me, when in face some TDs could be “rebelanced” in alot of areas, not even related to the damage output. If im not wrong devs said a while ago that TDs will have their damage and pepentration regardles of nerfs. Which was obviously bullshit. Soon I guess WG will lower the alpha on other TDs as well. The problem I have with this isnt that you get increased ROF as a tradeof, the problem is that they just took the easy route.

    What about heavys and mediums in tier 10, should they still have the same alpha? Some tanks in tier 10 (non TD) are sure as hell retardedly OP and annoying despite they dont have high global WR. Also how much will this nerf really “nerf” TDs now having 850 damage? And how many people will stop playing those TDs just because of that nerf? Because this is exactly what WG wants. What about fv 183 and jagdpz e100? They have over 1000 damage but slow as hell reload? Why not lower their alpha and increase their rof?