PaK 43 L/71 88mm autoloader

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Source: Yuri Pasholok’s blog, Daigensui

Hello everyone,

now, we know there was a plan to introduce an autoloader into the Tiger II (there are actually some indications that the Czechoslovaks did so after the war, but that was a different gun and a different autoloader – 75mm KwK 44 in case you are wondering). Courtesy of Daigensui, an excerpt from Panzer Tracts:

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Now, Yuri Pasholok found its photo in the archives.

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Yuri Pasholok states this system could fit both into the Jagdpanther and into Tiger II. Apparently, this exact autoloader on picture was intended for Jagdpanther. It could carry 6 rounds. Yuri Pasholok states that the principle of this autoloader is roughly similiar to the post-war American 120mm autoloaders (specifically the one for the 120mm T123E1 gun on the T57 Heavy Tank). It is intended for single-piece shells.

The photo was apparently found in Hunnicutt’s archive. Interesting.

52 thoughts on “PaK 43 L/71 88mm autoloader”

            • Unless you’re suddenly expanding the scope of the discussion to Waffenträger to the regular meaning of panzer, not sure why a Waffenträger Panther has any relevance here.

              • Here the regular meaning of panzer is “tracked armored vehicle” so it is fully relevant.
                A Luftwaffe cannon used on the ground is still less way of an abomination that waffentrager E-100 with a fortress AA autoloader fit to the wrong cannon.

                And unlike other abominations, it was test fired successfully on the ground.

                • Yes, it was tested successfully as a recoilless gun.

                  http://i.imgur.com/VCGmDL3.gif

                  You’re basically saying that we should use an autoloader which keeps the shellase within it, designed for a recoilless gun firing at 500 m/s which is not really worth the effort (in terms of WoT) on a Waffenträger….. for what reason?

                • Variety?
                  Because WOT is becoming a fantasy game anyway?

                  Or maybe because using that kind of guns one could build a respectable new line?

                  In any case they would be less fantasy than WT E-100.

              • I agree partially with both sides. Fitting this IRL would have been absurd because of many reasons.
                Still, in the game it could work if given HEAT as stock shell. There are some special cases, like Konisch, which technically fired APCR only (and was partially smoothbore, what an abomination! – the moment SerB knows this, he removes it from the game).

                • Actually, it technically fired AP only. The tungsten round was added as APCR due to the material.

        • Zarax got ownd lol…as SerB says-prove that thing was planned to be fit in anything except planes, and you win.

        • The Mk 103 iirc was to be used in the G model of the Pz II. Oddly it didn’t end up there in game. FlaK guns like that of the Pz Sfl. IVc is fine in game really. Not ideal, but fine.

          I do wish the rof and gun selection was closer to historical for all tanks but then we cant have it all. =(

          GW Tiger with 42cm mortar… More HE please.

    • Forget about Tiger II, long 88 has a bit low penetration for T8 heavy, even gold doesn’t help much.
      But JPanther with autoloader ?! Me wants !

      • you feel that way?
        I love my Tigers :3
        both Tiger I and Tiger II
        (haven’t gone to the P yet)<-YET

      • long 88 is a great cannon, maybe a bit short on penetration but enough at least to fight tier 9, but with an autoloader could be awesome

      • I drive my E-50 with stock 88mm L/71, and it’s not THAT bad tbh. Sure, it needs gold (and often even gold dinges – 234 [?] pen says hello), but it’s certainly not a painful grind. On tier IX med.

  4. Hmm, I can hardly imagine THIS moving inside the turret when depressing or elevating the gun, I wonder how would tank version look like.

    • Dont forget the length of Tiger II’s turret and of JP II’s Chassis.
      I guess it can be mounted with too much effect on depression/elevation.

    • From the looks of it most likely the gun would have to return to position for loading to happen, just like with almost any other stationary autoloader.

      • Does not the current T72 have the same issue with need to elevate gun a bit to load new shell? It uses the same principle with elevating gun; quite advanced, especially in terms of WoT and yet it rolls around, being real and what not. Probably the same issue is with T90 since it is renamed (advanced) T72. I am just saying that it is doable.

        • I think you mean T-72, “T72″ would be some old Murrican experimental thing. Also it crams 125mm’s of gun (and separated ammunition) into some 41 tons of “budget” tank so I’d say some inconvenience in the design is excusable…

    • Why not? Almost no one uses the long 88 in the Jagdpanther from what I see in battles, there’s already a long 88 at tier 6, and an autoloader always means a loooong reload time to compensate for murderous burst damage.

      To top it off, the Jagdpanther is penned by almost every shot anyway (other than some lucky bounces and HE).

        • ^^Same here. 88 is just awesome on JP…..slightly more pen than 105mm…..accuracy is awesome and RoF <3 it shoots like every 5,5 seconds…

            • 88L71 is a much better credit grinder than 105, but I sometimes miss the alpha and the brawling capacity… That said, gimme the autoloader! Nao!! The 88L71 could pwn with one of those…

  6. So…the name of the gun (That would be mounted on the Royal Tiger/Tiger II) is the 8,8cm KwK 43/3, while the Tank Destroyer variant’s name is the 8,8cm PaK 43/3?

    • the Pak and the Kwk stand for (something along the lines of) anti-gun gun and tank gun.
      *I think*
      So I guess so.

        • PaK: Panzerabwehr Kanone – Anti Tank Gun
          KwK: Kampfwagen Kanone – Armored Vehicle Gun

          Main difference between the two was barrel length and ammunition.

  9. I would love it if they would replace the PII’s 88 with something more of an autoloader like the french AMX. From the looks of it, the AMX is faster, and has a better gun, while the armour of the PII can be penned by tier6′s