Storm on possible TD nerf


Hello everyone,

in a recent post, a player (LJ user) gpuctb commented on the situation of tank destroyers and that they should get more nerfs basically. He cites good camo and accuracy as the worst problems. Storm made a comment under the post as follows:


Currently, following variants of TD nerf are considered:

- levelling the camo debuff after shooting the gun (as in, removing the TD advantage of having less camo debuff after shooting than other classes apparently, this is a special thing only TD’s have)
- it’s possible (but not sure) that the accuracy will be reduced (30 percent more towards the old accuracy, without removing the limitation of the amount of hits that fly towards the circle edge)
- higher penetration loss with distance for AP and APCR shells

More from the discussion:

- increased effect of gravity and air resistance on shells is not planned
- T-50-2 was “removed in the form it was before” (SS: that implies it might appear as an alternative hull to T-50 again)
- artillery rebalance was not considered in relation to this TD issue

Storm also states the following about the penetration loss over distance:

“We modelled the penetration loss from real distances loss, but the fights (in WoT) are fought on distances two times lower, which means that at this moment, penetration loss practically doesn’t effect the shooting. And we have to also consider that on higher distances, the angle of impact is even better in many cases. And so we decided to add this factor into the game.”

- apparently, the fighting distance won’t be increased: “For that we will have to make another game”
- according to Storm, TD’s were fine even before accuracy buff
- the “15 meters rule” (SS: the combination of camo bonus of two bushes within 15 meters) will have to be “modified, not removed, by adding the influence of gun caliber on that rule”
- the new movement physics system will bring a lot of changes apparently, the movement of the tank will be very realistic and so will be its interaction with objects, the prototype of this movement system will be ready next week and the developers will start to look at it to make it playable

115 thoughts on “Storm on possible TD nerf

  1. “- it’s possible (but not sure) that the accuracy will be reduced (30 percent more towards the old accuracy, without removing the limitation of the amount of hits that fly towards the circle edge)”

    my F155 is insanely accurate now /sarcasm off
    Its always easier to whine instead of learning how to play against them.

      • having a foch myself i can say that it is OP BUT!
        the gun is just troll towards the one who tries to use it as a sniper. i stopped wondering about Foch155 going close combat to empty their clips…they simply cannot snipe because the shells go all over the place.

        • Agree to this man. Yes I get the 4k damage in battle, my average is about 3.7k, but all of that I got into close combat, not by 300 and up meter sniping, which that gun just can’t allow. Maybe stationary targets, MAYBE. Reducing the accuracy would just mean, never snipe… Which is fine by me, I can sell the TD whenever it gets over-nerfed.
          No hard feelings. :)

        • And if you play the Foch or Foch 155 as a sniper, you’re doing it wrong in the first place. It’s intended for close-quarters combat, which is how the majority of players with at least average skill tend to use it (unless you’re on El Halluf or a map like that, where everybody tries to snipe even when they shouldn’t, because typically the alternative is certain death and subsequent defeat)

      • Foch wasn’t OP (or just wasn’t so deadly in proper conditions) because of his accuracy, but because was able to take most other X tiers within 10 seconds.
        Incoming alpha damage nerf to 750 means that Foch won’t be able to take down most tier X HTs.

        Adding to that removal of camo bonus should do the trick.

        Additional nerf to accuracy seems like usual WG-thing – overnerf something and then think about that.

        • Overnerf then think…lol.

          Personally I think wargaming is running a thin line here. I don’t believe them to really nerf or buff anything because of whine but because of the bottom line ie $.$$

          WarThunder as competition will do the best thing for us the players. The Whole OP thing is taken WAY WAY to out of hand in my opinion. People don’t realize that even “accepted” OP tanks are statistically only a few percent ‘off’ the norm. What no one seems to understand that this really does not affect INDIVIDUAL gameplay much at all. What affects is the fact that we as players can’t accept our own failings, screw ups, and in general stupid moves in the game – and so we must blame something. WHO came up with the rule that if you screw up and get taken out in short order, that that should not be, WHO came up with the rule that in a tank game you get smacked by a big thing – that does a bleeding lot of damage that somehow its not your fault for screwing up, and must be because the other tank is OP????

          The fact is 99% of OP dialog and whine is misplaced, it should be not be about the tank but about how to learn how to get better than you already are, which is hard to do if you think you already know all the answers ;)

          Nerfs hurt the game as much as over buffed tanks or processes. remember this, and the only one who loses in this is not Wargaming but your time and your wallet.

          Even the most accepted OP tank in the game will not pwn you in a match if you use your wits about you, which actually can be quite challenging and fun, but NOT for those who think their own tank makes them win or lose, or those of the opposing team — “they” will never get over it.

          An FV183 to get a succesful shot off is not easy, most know exactely where one is on the battle field, they know that if they stay like a dear in head lights they’re gonna get smacked! but nooooo, why start learning how to take them down, just cry about it and try to get one for yourself because the tank WILL make YOU “OP” as well. Well it doesn’t!

          Stats on accepted OP tanks barely affect you in an individual game (a few percent points difference over THOUSANDS of battles will not affect the outcome of ONE battle any more than sneezing at your pc while you play – what will affect you is how you react to they opposing team and how well your team plays as a team! – better learn their strengths ( and minimize them ) and their weaknesses ( and exploit them! ) then you’ll enjoy the game, and accept that tanks are different, variety is good and dumbing everything down to the same grey will make this game boring, yes even for the OP/UP whiners and gankers because by that time you’ll have no special tank to even feel it can help you in a match.

          Remember the game is to have fun, you will win, and you will lose. If not its boring.

          IMO the best thing that can happen to this cycle is competition to wargaming from war thunder. It won’t go away, but they’ll be less keen to gank the player base on their immaturity in dealing with a game match that does not “go” their way, so they seek to nerf the opponent and seek an OP tank for themselves, and spend away time and real $$ into a pursuit that has no end, until you get some perspective.

          Guys this OP business is not much more than splitting hairs, if people wouldn’t go crazy and shift entire play away from enjoyment to “must win, must play most OP tank in “my” own opinion then match making stats would not go out of balance, which is what wargaming cares about —> our $, fun game comes second. Remember that.

          Just play what you have fun with, deal with the opponents you are confronted with. Arty overpopulation would never have happened had more people just played to have fun.

          Peoples basic double standards to self and others is the issue here, NOT a 5% difference in win rate of a tank or its bounce rate, or its balance of offensive vs defense.

          My advice, stop arguing so much and next time you feel in a match taken by an OP tank, try to figure out what your mistake was, and what advantageous move did the other team do to take advantage of you own mistake. It might be luck, but I would wager to guess that its gonna be a mistake on you own part, which leads to the best part! You can learn to get better only from your mistakes! and getting better FEELS great, much more than getting a copy of the Jones-es tank too, so you to can gank someone – which you won’t be able to if your not good enough. Remeber stats are stats for a reason, they need a LARGE sample size to be valid, small scale – nope nada zilch!!! not applicable – which means to you and me others factors are much more important.

          Have fun! Enjoy, and keep the the peace.

    • Accuracy nerf is exactly what ruined arty and just made it an incredibly boring and frustrating class to play.

      If they’re going to turn every tank in this game into that then War Thunder couldn’t come fast enough

      • “Accuracy nerf is exactly what ruined arty and just made it an incredibly boring and frustrating class to play.”

        Arty is basically still as accurate as ever: while the accuracy stat in itself was indeed made worse, it was only to counter-balance the overall sigma buff of all guns in the game.

        What made arty the way they are now was a combination of other nerfs: RoF, speed of shells, penalties induced by movement of gun and vehicle.

        Storm was talking about the possible nerf to sigma (i.e. the way shells are distributed within aim circle) for TDs, not the accuracy stat itself.

        • Agreed on those points, but if we wanted realistic arty gameplay, since they were intended to be used to bombard the enemy with multiple guns, relying on volume of fire rather than accuracy, the more realistic approach would be to severely nerf accuracy but greatly increase rate of fire.

      • Only things in spg that got nerfed was that it was less probable that snapshot would go in center of reticle and aim time was increased.

        Nerfed for n00bs and whiners.

        Why not play Warthunder? Tanks are perfectly accurate in that one; at least much more accurate than in WoT(lol KV-2).

        • you forgot mobilty for some artys and now you have a speed nashorn and a slow hummel does it realistics on the same pz4 hull?

          • Speed and mobility nerf was “Mystically” left out of the patch notes, but yes at least the German arty did most definitely did get a mobility nerf, I know this because I ONLY play German tanks and I played every German arty in game before 8.6 except the GW E-100 and after and they all got a nerf to speed, traverse, and horsepower. Since I never saw a forum post about it I wondered if I was one of the few who noticed the nerf and if other countries with arty got those 3 nerfs as well.

          • I already discussed that small issue with some people. They don’t like that track transverse issue either but it is part of the overall nerf applied to SPGs.

            Just look at JTiger vs GW Tiger transverse and you have another example.

  2. Maybe 2nd client for fights on maps for over 2km?
    Hard to create but possianyon
    Does anyone know what the normal fight distance in WWII was?

  3. They shouldn’t touch anything else appart the Tier 10 TDs like WTE ,E3 ,Foch 155 and Object 268, but the former only a bit.

    Or put a hardcap of 4 TDs per game. Problem solved.

    Otherwise they will become unplayable at any tier ,increasing the numbers of Heavy Tanks and Arties.

    • Hardcap on TD’s? Seems like you are an idiot.

      What I don’t get is why people have problems fighting against TD’s. As long as you don’t go full retard and just rush straight into them I see no problem in fighting them. Learn to play the maps and how to flank without getting shot by the normal camper positions and everything is fine. The point of a TD is to hurt.

      Also I prefer to play again 5 TD’s instead of 5 Artys, because TD’s still have to be in range to shot, still have to aim for weak spots and wont do damage as long as they don’t penetrate, where arty shit just nuke you from orbit even behind god damn rocks.

      Jesus…I mean what’s next? Nerf the mediums => to fast, nerf the heavys => to much armor…

      • While I do not agree with an accuracy or pen nerf, reducing alpha and agility would help… TDs are meant to kill heavies, but in exchange they ought not to be able to kill them quickly, and ought to be more vulnerable to mediums and lights… Or, as I like to call it, the Rock Paper Scissors principle – if a tank class is good at killing another tank class, it ought to be equally more vulnerable to a third tank class (or achievable tactical situation)

        • JT already excel at that……getting killed by LT / MT by being circled……. conclusion anyone?

      • A lot of people whine about possible cycle of nerf.

        But most do not realize nerf only happens when something is BREAKING the game.

        You don’t see any heavy tank breaking the game(as in having enough of those causes game to turn into campfest). And medium tanks are very balanced for pubs.

      • Sure, then try to play Karelia or Erlenberg with any tank u want and try to get in enemy base when u cant spot any damn TD camping back there waiting that u move just a litle foward and get spoted, i play alot of Med wich have good speed, cammo and so on, but when i get spoted and simply retards with 500 wn7 playing WTe100 just shot twice in my batchat and i go down to 30% of my HP in just 2 secs, not to speak about TDs with good cammo value.
        Its easy to speak about going to flank and not going full retard and bla bla bla, but when enemy team is full of TDs that sit in 1 bush for 15min no matter what they dont move u cant do anithing about that.

        • And yet everyone here is whining about FUCKING T10 tds. No one bitches about low-mid tier TDs and as we can see they will fuck them up too because of few broken high tiers. WG and their master logic.

          • Can I direct you attention to the M18 Hellcat, which a LOT of people complain about, and another one that there was a lot of complaints about but doesn’t seem to receive them so much anymore for some reason: the SU-122-44 (and yes, I myself am an SU-122-44 driver, a pretty good one in fact, and even I think it’s slightly broken!)

  4. SO they get inaccurate guns and lose their camo bonus?Right that’s them useless, So Mediums are the new TD’s.

    Wonder what those will loose when the “Nerf Mediums” starts getting screamed. Then it’ll be “Nerf heavy tanks”, and we’ll be right back where we started.

  5. Finding TDs accuracy as a bad problem is seriously funny at a time when Heavy and Medium Tank’s 105+mm Howitzers fire with uncanny accuracy over half the map… I can see a point on big rates of fires, but then on the low and medium tiers I can’t see a general problem, as most Alpha’s and DPM are very similar between mediums and TDs. (Looking at the German line, the JP-IV reloads the 7,5/L70 in 3,9s while the VK 30.02 (M) needs 4,2 seconds. With higher view range and a turret plus similar armor for the MT…[but then the JP-IV seems to be generally UP and the 30.02(m) OP according to the 'new' statistics, showing that across the board changes for one class don't work])

    And again: Nerfing Camo genereally makes some lines even less competitive, while not really touching others… When was the last time someone saw a AT8 actually hiding somewhere? When was the last time the American turreted TD’s couldn’t outmanouvre an opponent after being spotted?
    I am not saying that some TD’s aren’t OP, but the statistics cleary show that the class in itself isn’t. Most of the “whine” seems to come from the general lack of teamplay in randoms. If the HT were 150m behind the mediums who manouvre to spot TDs then most TD’s are toast in a second. If three HT’s don’t care about teamplay and move down their lane being shelled by a TD for 200m before seeing it, it’s not the TDs fault.

    As I said before, I think we need a general rebalance. With less DPM and less Alpha overall. And that counting for all Tanks of all classes. This gives the possibility for more Teamplay even for bad players, and the chance to learn from mistakes, which is not really given ATM. If you’re dead after 15 seconds combat when driving most lights and mediums then you can’t really learn anything.

    • Since you described pretty much how i would do it, do you want to know where the general and main problem is? It’s fucking broken powercreep T10 TDs. No one whined about TDs so much before when T10 TDs weren’t in the game. No one whines about mid-low tier TDs nowadays(with few exceptions). Most of the whining is about Foch155,268,WTE100 and surprisingly they are all high tier TDs. And because of that WG will nerf to shit TD class as a whole eventhough some of the low-mid tiers are not only OP, but even UP. But they seem to know far less about their own game than people who plays it. But on the other hand that’s not something suprising.

      • The reason they will make a class wide nerf is to prevent former tier 10 TD players to play lower tiers and thus overpopulate them. Just like the artys, while in reality only the top tiers were OP ones. To prevent players of high tier OP artys to start “infesting” lower tiers, they nerfed all. So the only option to perform good was to play another tank class….which happened to be TDs and soon be either mediums and/or autloaders if all TDs gets nerfed.

    • I find it funny that people are constantly up in arms about how WG never listens to the community…and yet whenever they nerf something, it’s supposedly ‘because of the whine’. How about some consistency? Do they listen or do they not?

        • Yes, WoT would be very different as it wouldn’t appeal to the masses, WG wouldn’t make as much money as they are currently making, and thus there would be no game at all, since money is the goal of any company.
          Being good at a game doesn’t turn you into a successful game designer. Quite the opposite.

          • Being a red shithead tomato doesn’t also turn you into a successful adviser. This wasn’t addressed to you personally because i don’t know how good/bad player you are, but we all know who is whining about OP TDs the most. It certainly isn’t good players.

            • That’s the point I was making in my first post: WG don’t listen to red baron either. When they nerf a tank or a tank class, they have their own reasons, which have nothing to do with whether players are complaining about said tank or not.
              Remember, the forums are only a tiny subset of the playerbase, what forum members want is not representative of what the playerbase in its entirety wants. And what the playerbase wants isn’t even relevant, since the playerbase doesn’t know how to run a succesful game… and in general people don’t even know waht they want anyway.
              The reasons for buffs, nerfs and the general state of the game are twofold: game balance and marketting.
              WG need some rough balance for the game to survive. It doesn’t have to be perfect, but it can’t be completely messed up (and in general it isn’t). They need people to not be as frustrated by bad balance as to quit, and they also need that no tank class is over-represented, since the entire gameplay is tailored towards a homogenous distribution of tanks classes and doesn’t work well when this is compromised (which would reduce revenue).
              But WG also need to keep the cycle of new shiny OP branches going, to create more incentive for people to grind new branches by buying premium time and spending freexp. But eventually, the new shiny OP branch isn’t that profitable anymore and need to get back into the ranks before the revenue loss due to the upset balance and frustrated players overtakes the income generated by this not-so-new-anymore branch.
              In the case of the TD nerf, this is just a case of global game balance, a consequence of the initial arty nerf, which in itself didn’t originate from the whines of arty haters (or it would have taken WG more less than 2 years to do it) but from the slow mutation of the meta game which eventually led to an over-abundance of artillery, which in itself is bad for the game. We are simply experiencing the effects of the arty nerf, and my guess is we haven’t seen the last of it yet.

              The fact people seem to think WG reacts to the whine of the community (when they seem to ignore us in any other matter), is that sometimes the concerns players have over the evolution of the gameplay meet the concerns WG have over the evolution of their game in general. You are mistaking the cause for the consequence.

              • Interesting … Basically if this is true, to me it, means for us players to stop playing the game so much – stop taking the game too seriously :)
                Get other hobbies too, or else we are in for getting yanked about by our noses.

                Let it be, its out of our control or influence.

        • So you’re saying they should ignore 90% of the player base? That’s not going to happen – it’s bad for business, and they know it.

  6. WG Are Acting correctly to balance the game continuously as currently it’s world of TD’s and not world of tanks.

    My respect for WG developers is growing day by day as they don’t let the players rule the development like in other games.

        • as they don’t let the players rule the development like in other games.
          And yet ther listen to the tomatoes whining on forums about OP that tank, OP those tankes. Fucking dumb asslicker wihtout a clue

    • The notion that WOT is world of TDs is bullshit, most games consist of heavys. Also what is a “tank” according to you? I hope you realise there are big fucking differances amongs tanks in the same class, and hence having a game with 13 is3 vs 13 tigers II will never be balanced because some tanks are clearly better. You really think there would be now whine and that the game would be more balanced with only heavys and mediums and 1 TD around? My guess is that it wont be, because people are stupid and cowards, and they like to camp.

      The reason gameplay is messed up is not because of TDs or less artys, but because the general idea is that camping/sniping is better because everybody can do it due to more accurate guns and gold ammo. There are countless of games what dont have any TDs or only 1-2 still the gameplay is as static as ever, with alot of heavys and mediums camoing as the same fucking hills behind bushed hoping to get cheap damage.

      • What about people who playd TDs when they werent “OP” because they liked it and have invested time and money into them? How fun is it to get fucked? Thats right, many dont wanna get fucked so they arart gridning other classes, and hence that class will soon be overpopulated, just like artys masses started playing TDs. Side effect of nerfing….

      • Interestingly you mentioned T18(proven to be OP), Foch155 and WTE100 as OP tanks. Now please tell me why didn’t you cited Stug, ARL V39, Jackson, JgpzIV, Jagdpanther, AMX AC 1946, AMX AC 1948 etc. as OP ones? Because somehow WG is going to nerf them too simply because they belong to TD class. Can you figure it out what TDs made all this shitstrom about TDs being OP. I’ll give you a hint. It’s those above Tier 9. And yet all TDs including those bellow Tier 10 are gonna pay the consequences.

  7. Well , the only TD-problem I see is T9 and T10 . Those TDs just have too high alpha , and most T10/9 battles become a campfest ,, T10 is just not fun anymore , as you get forced to camp .

    • the same was with artys, they where a problem in T9 T10 battles, but artys where newer OP, their problem was that fucked up arty tier spread – stretching the arty tiers from 8 to 10 without nerfing them would be enough – TDs would not become OP (like now) and would not needed to be nerfed

      since 8.6 the overall gameplay experience is CRAP, what would it become after global TD nerf?

      • I wouldn’t really call T9 as those who are OP and creating imbalance. It’s those T10 TDs who are massive powercreep tanks and they were intentionally made OP to milk out the cash out of players wether for converting exp or to simply buy premium to grind them out faster. No one ever whined about TDs(as much as they do now) before when T10 TDs weren’t even in the game.

  8. Let’s assume that 2 TDs are guardindg some chokepoint against 8 heavies. What is the most common tactics in random battle? Will part of them go another way? Will they go together supporting each other? No way. First one goes alone and dies. Then the second one moves and dies. then the third one, and so on. Then they start crying about TDs being so overpowered.
    This game is going to be more and more brainless zombies friendly. And they are going never to be happy, as no tank nerf or buff can supply them with brains.
    Let’s see CW, team battles, companies. Are they dominated by TDs? If TDs are so overpowered, then it should be quite common to see 7 TDs vs 7 TDs. And this never happens. Why? Cause with few advantages, TDs have quite a lot of disadvantages.

    • you are right … in CW you will see 1-2 maximum 3 TDs and that because in CW you will need mobility and fast fire power

    • In 7-7 i see 50% of game with 2 TD team.

      They are juste camping, often with hm +ferdi +2×50100.

      I want to see your super heavy/med rush on that.

      Now, we just camp the same way, and, funny, ALL game are draw, because they just want a freekill game using TD and camping. Watching ennemies die with RHM super gun for exemple, and 50-100 finishing them.

      The game is now world of camp or world of TD, 15 TD in a game is too much, when you reach this, how do you want the game fun with half of the two teams camping???

      • So according to you World of TDs is when one team camps with ONE(1) TD as you cited, Ferdinand and TWO(2) 50 100s. Excuse me but when did AMX 100s changed their class to TDs? You can’t even tell what your problem is, that’s how clueless you are you fuckwit. But you sure don’t have explanation to the OP’s comment. Why TDs aren’t majority in CWs if they are so OP? And instead of them you have IS7s, E5s, T57s as most common tanks in CW.

        • read better even if i misses the “r” of RHM…

          And for clan wars, answer is quite simple: mobility.

          15 T10 on vocal can do something.
          15 T10 in random will just be shooted without any strat.

          in 7-7 you have only five t8, RHM (change RHM by isu if you want) can two shoot you before you reach him or even spot him. And even if he shots you once, the rest of the camping team will down you.

          Stangely, when you want to force them to come, 95% of game result in draw.

          TD are just OP, they allow camping like an idiot, and firing the first thing you see with gold ammo.
          You can’t do that with other class, even arty can’t.

  9. “- it’s possible (but not sure) that the accuracy will be reduced (30 percent more towards the old accuracy, without removing the limitation of the amount of hits that fly towards the circle edge)”

    It has already been done!!! But people don’t pay attention in the game they are playing!

    • The truth is that the accuracy on some tanks I feel got changed in 8.7. That along with ghost shells. Im amazed how good some low accuracy guns are performing compared to my long 105 on my tiger II, that has like what 0.34-0.35, I still miss weakspots in medium ranges and éven close range, totally idiotic. And yes I know how to aim and penentrate, I have 86% hit ratio in both my tiger II and ferdinand, imagine if I wouldnt aim carefully or making snap shots. Clearly the accuracy and RNG is fucked uip for some tanks.

      • I felt a big change from 8.9 to 8.10

        They rolled back at least part of the improvement they did before.

  10. Bigger guns should produce more flash and smoke from their barrels, wich means TDs with huge guns should instantly be spotted after firing.

  11. - levelling the camo debuff after shooting the gun (as in, removing the TD advantage of having less camo debuff after shooting than other classes apparently, this is a special thing only TD’s have)

    Yeah good idea, touch the camo and ruin the tank class where one of the main advantages is the camo…

    - it’s possible (but not sure) that the accuracy will be reduced (30 percent more towards the old accuracy, without removing the limitation of the amount of hits that fly towards the circle edge)

    Who the fuck cares? The system is rigged in any way, so doesn’t matter what is “legit on paper”

    - higher penetration loss with distance for AP and APCR shells

    And that would also ruin the gameplay….

    All they have to do is reduce the alpha of ALL the high alpha guns (t8 and above) to something like 10% more then heavys and lower the dpm a bit while not nerfing it into valhalla. Problem solved. But the retards at WG will never be able to get the simplest things done correctly…

    • Main problem with TDs are that they killed HTs in game, it’s so rare to se a team where there is more than 4-5 HTs.
      I really hate playing HTs when there is no point of armor anymore, so i stopped playing them. As i dont find playing E100 for example and having my mantlet penetrated constantly fun, like wut?
      Those russian monsters (bias) with 450 pen is just ridiculous, good thing they finaly deceided to nerf that.

      I wouldn’t mind if they remove the gold ammo for TDs and even nerf ap pen like 5% or so, changing cammo and accuracy isn’t the best idea coz this 2 things should be TDs main advantages over the other classes.
      Setting some team pattern at MM like team should have X% HTs, Y% MT, Z% TDs and so on (only rough percentages, not like all theams should be equal in al tank classes) could work for me, but this isnt really noob friendly and they will not change MM for sure, so this is off.

      And offf the topic i remember few months ago, in T10 games when 14-15 tanks in team was T10 was so rare that everyone was talking about at start of the round, and these days 70-80% T10 games are like that, maybe i missed something, idk.

    • “Main advantage is the camo”

      Phhhahahahahahahaha. Oh, you are serious. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Have you ever played higher tiers?

        • Most of the tier 10 TD’s, even if they had absolutely no camo, have an absolutely MASSIVE advantage in raw power over tier 10 heavies. Most of them don’t even need to stay in camo to completely kick another tier 10 vehicle’s ass.

          Tier 10 [and some tier 9] TD’s are the only ones in the entire game that can easily defeat a ssame-tier heavy in a 1vs1 brawl without any regard for its camo abilities.

        • You’re talking about 700 damage sniper monsters with armor plating rivalling a destroyer and an E-100 with a Naval Autoloader stuck on top as having a ‘camo advantage.’

          That’s why you’re such a funny guy. Top tier Tank destroyers are all beast killers, and right about now they’re having a stupid easy time of beastkilling. The camo bonuses that rate some of them them down as small Mediums is icing on that cake.

    • Lower the damage and maybe have the same rof or even buff it, would be better because then it wouldnt be any differance from taking a shot from a medium/heavy or from a TD. Also it would punish tanks alot less to be hit, if they are dumb enough to get hut by TDs.

      Problem is, TDs needs to have a advantage that works to be worth playing. Otherwise whats the point? If all TDs gets nerfed a same nation heavy can do the work better and in most cases even now they are alreaddy doing it.

  12. I bet a lot of these TD players are ex arty players that moved over to TD’s after 8.6
    Looks like the camp site easy street is being Fk,ed up,Hooray
    Where will they go next,which camp site will they end up at.
    The Camp site called serbs butt.
    The tears,o dear,what a shame.

  13. - apparently, the fighting distance won’t be increased: “For that we will have to make another game”

    Warships :D

  14. As i said before … The BIGGEST problem is that we have way toooo many TDs in one battle … it should be maximum 4 on one BATTLE. The camo needs to be nerfed only at FIRE of the gun because BIG GUNs make BIG noise and BIG lights at firing … THEY think that on stats the FV 183 is not OP … but on the game all idiots that shoots with GOLD ammo gets like 2000 Damage on one shoot and if the moron shoots 3 tanks it is getting 5000-6000 damage per game …. Even he is killed he has 6000 damege by doing nothing and a E5 needs 10 and probably more shoots to have the same damage …. and HARD WORK …. what the fuck … but this is not the REAL problem i think … the problem is PLAYERS ( from 3 to 10 per game) who suicide in the first 2-3 minutes and let good players with OP tanks to win the game for those idiots …. THIS GAME IS ABOUT , IDIOT NOOBS, SUPPORTING THE TEAM, PLAYING LIKE A TEAM, KILLING THE ENEMY BEFORE GET KILLED, NOT TO SUICIDE IN THE FIRST MINUTE AND PUTTING THE REST OF THE TEAM ON DIFFICULT AND NOT THE LAST, TO THINK ALL YOUR MOVES. This game is not about LUCK and not about FATE

  15. - it’s possible (but not sure) that the accuracy will be reduced (30 percent more towards the old accuracy, without removing the limitation of the amount of hits that fly towards the circle edge)

    Ηm……isnt that already in the game in the form of trolling cannons???
    all big calliber antitank guns like 152mm Bl 10 the american 155mm gun of T30 and T95 and the top tiers td’s like 268 E4 E3 and JPE FV 183 doesnt troll hard enough that you have a perfectly aimed shot and you pull the trigger and then you receive the massage “critical hit” or bounce off and stuff??really???
    also the problem is with the tier 10 td’s most of the tier 9 td’s especially the ones from the start of the game are very balanced but it seems that cause it has the Tag TD’s then all must burn….

    and one more thing
    first we had artys ….artys nerfed to the ground then moved to td’s for this stuff
    now td’s are being nerfed then it will go over medi’ssss in some mounths later
    so this is how the game will go???nerfing the shit out of everything claas by class??
    but then again with all that advertisment and stuff WG didnt really care for the actuall it seems it does what the masses want so it can continue getting money and that’s also you decide to play WoT some random battles just for you enjoyment and you end spoiling your mood cause you cant get a decend game of teamwork and fun from that teamwork they leemmings either die alone in off possitions or they just camp at base o and wait Heavys camp base not td’s that are off to take choekpoints so they can do there work

    • > first we had artys ….artys nerfed to the ground then moved to td’s for this stuff
      No, no they’re not. They got nerfed into annoyance but you were still capable of supporting, then got rebuffed. Now almost every Artillery piece can shotgun anything going at an appreciable speed, scouts included, at close distance and are back to doing their job of halting advances and camping.

      The problem was before 8.7 a major portion of kills was always going to be in the hands of the best artillery players. By the very end of 8.6 everybody was grabbing artillery left and right, 5 to 6 per side per game. Driving a VK 45.02 B around was a bad joke at that time.

  16. FTR & OT:
    Do you know that Storm’s avatar is based on painting done by Zdzislaw Beksinski, Polish painter whos biography is so tragic that it almost resembles Hiob’s?

  17. There’s a problem with tier x tds so WG stamp all over the game?

    The increase pen loss over distance wont matter to tds who have high pen, more mediums who operate at both long range and short.

    Why are they so desperate to force td’s to play like other tanks? It’s messed up for those td’s that have low alpha, its okay if you can derp and run behind cover, but if you have to sit there and keep firing? these changes going to suck.

    Again the problem is not td’s at range, its tier x td’s being able to work well at any range, with massive burst damage and/or armour. Usually by the time you’ve got to the td’s your damaged, there’s a decent chance he’s going to be better armoured than you, and you have to survive his first volley.

  18. Nerfing TD’s will only push every one into HT’s,
    then what ? nerf HT’s, then you will end up with a more broken game that no one will play.
    tier 10 TD’s and premium ammo for credits where 2 of the biggest game changers in the game and not in a good way. For a trial of say a month WG should drop premium ammo from one of the EU servers and see what happens, and maybe look into tier 11 HT’s , HT’s need to be the top of tree tanks, not Arty or TD’s
    but nerfing every thing to try and balance a broken class is just stupid.

    • No. Heavy tanks or mediums becoming heavily populated would be a great thing. They don’t force horrible stalemates like arties did and TD’s do right now.

      Also, heavies were already nerfed when most of them got their pen toned down a few patches ago.
      Mediums were also pre-nerfed in the same patch.

      • I play only heavy tanks now, and I have games with almost no Tds like 1-2 on every team. The game is still camp as hell because people dont wanna move. If 3 heavys, for example is3 sitting on the hill behind bushes. The one whos poking will be dead anyways, regardles. Camping is the enemy not TDs.

        I also disagree to making accuracy worse for TDs as well as penentration loss. Whats would be the poijnt playing TDs if they get all these bad treats? A heavy will be more consisten obviously, and im talking aboutlower tier TDs like tier 7-8, where heavys are dominatig alreaddy.

  19. I think these idiots sprinkle a little nerf foam in their breakfast cereal every morning… you know, because apparently it’s TOO HARD for WG to just add tank-class hardcaps so there aren’t too many of one type of “support vehicle” in your random battle.

    I mean sure… when was the last time you went into clan wars with 15 TD’s? How bout 8 arty? Well… no shit – it’s because WE, the players, know better. You might see 1-3 arty, 1-3 td’s, a pair of scouts, but the remainder of the team is mediums and heavies.

    Learn from US WG… quit thinking you set up the team-list for random battles better than we ASSIGN them where it matters for us.

  20. Is is kinda clear they are making a nerf “a la arty” just so TD players as a whole will be reduced (to prevent tier 10 TD players to overpopulate lower tiers). Question is only what these TD players will play next, of if they will keep on playing TDs making their numbers still be higher. Even now days with 3 artys, playing a heavy and slow tank is bringing back memories from the past, despiter arty parties are not that common.

    I still believe they will nerf TDs and then give then a little buff just to make players grind them again, similar to the arty buff made some patches ago, which in deed made som artys a little bit more accurate, despite 0.1-0.2 accuracy buff.

  21. Accurancy nerf for tds oh yes that makes perfect sense, arent tds suppose to be accurate? More and more i read i have a feeling they will fuck it up like arty “rebalance”

    • Me and many others alreaddy knew TDs were going to get nerfed class wide since 8.6 and the reason for that is actually many, but one of them is the heavily medium and heavy tank biased community.

      This is the same as the arty nerf, allthough TDs maybe are getting alot less nerfed but still those nerfs are totally out of porpotion, for tanks that were originaly designed to be much more accurate, have higher alpha, penentration and camo than regular tanks. By nerfing all TDs in future patches WG will make sure the majority of TD players will stop playing, just like artys. Nerf tanks so they perform alot worse and not worth the time and money is a good way to regulate how many are playing certan classes. We also see that WG totally dont give a shit about WR, because if they did, alot of medium and heavy tanks would be nerfed.

      All indications of nerfs are just like the arty ones, and even one step above, because TDs will maybe get more penentration loss over distance than other tank classes. There will be little need to play TDs if a class wide nerf occurs, other than if you really like TDs. As it is now, and im not speaking about tier 10, a heavy and medium can change the battle alot more then a TD as it is.

  22. To me it looks crybabies finally will get what they wanted. Accuracy nerf? SERIOUSLY? In what fucking parallel world do they live to think TDs are so much superior in accuracy to the point they are considered OP cause of that? Looks like another case of “arty nerfs” where they will nerf TDs into the state of being unplayable. AND ALL THAT because of some OP high tier TDs. Tell me again how much people whined about TDs before T10 TDs where in the game. Reason why you also see increased numbers of lower tier TDs in the game is because every fuckwit is trying to grind out his OP T10 TD and not because he enjoys playing them(well with some exceptions). If anything some of the low-mid tier TDs are seriously UP. T10 TDs took a shit on game balance and now whole class will suffer. Great logic there you have WG. Please tell me how Stug is OP with it’s 330m view range, paper armor and only 350 HP while all other classes at T5 have almost 50% more HP and better armor and slightly worse guns as compensation. Please tell me how ARL V39 is OP. Please tell me how Jagdpanther is OP in it’s current state. And all that because people started whining how Foch155 is OP and ironically they didn’t wanted to nerf it for couple of years eventhough everyone knew it’s OP. Jesus Christ they really want to ruin this game completely.

    • Actually i overrated Stug with 330m view range. It’s 310m actually. I feel ashamed i didn’t know that about my favourite tank in the game. But in my defence i didn’t played it for a long time now. Maybe they should nerf it to 250m so I can’t shoot tanks and be invisible(which ironically TDs are supposed to be) specially if you are in paper armored TD.

  23. so tds get

    alpha damage nerf
    accuracy nerf
    probably aim time nerf also..they forgot to say for
    reload buff

    hell why not nerf every fucking tank in game to have 0.5 accuracy and 4 sec aim time

    fucking wallet gaming

    • Its not entierly unaccurate if all tanks in the game at some point will get a nerf in all aspects. This is because we have more casual noobs playing that dont like to die (fast). By making penentration and alpha lower as well as other stats people can play longer without dying, derping around and bouncing like idiots.

      This is exactly what happened with artys, they nerfed them to punish tankers alot less along with less people playing artys all over which in turn makes it less unforgiving to derp around on the open. With a TD class wide nerf, now it will be even less unforgiving for tanks to run around and not think about taking cover and use proper routes to flank. I mean now they dont get killed by invisible TDs that often and lose 1/2 their health right?

      The game is dumbed down, and in 8.6 it all started. The accuracy buff was to make idiots hit on the move more easily, but then again, worse accuracy (which will probably happen in future) will make it easier to run around not thinking to get shot and use your brain. As well as destructable objects making low tard noobs with gold ammo not even have to make a effort to flank tanks, they can just sit and snipe thru solikd objects.

  24. So….they’re scaling back the damage on the big Tank Destroyer guns….they’re reducing the camo values of the ENTIRE class…they are killing the accuracy by 30%….and they’re slicing the penetration-with-distance loss even more……………………………….what the flying fuck, WarGaming? You’re taking away everything that makes Tank Destroyers key, and unique. Now TDs will have to close the distance more in order to perform adequately, which (with some TDs) will only amplify the fact that they have poor armor and leave them open for the pounding of their life. Tank Destroyers with no armor can no longer rely on being able to sit back from the main lines of battle (as much as they once used to), and cancel out their lack of armored plating with the fact that they could hide and snipe….well fuck that now, right? Jesus, WarGaming…..a little nerf made sense….but this? Seriously? Who proposes these things……?

    • They only have sense when they are buffing german tanks. Like for example 2 degree turret traverse on Maus. Or faster shell velocity on JgpzE100. That shell velocity was actually quite good buff, but it didn’t make the Jgpz OP in any way. That’s called sensible buff/nerf. But usually they have no sense at all and they either make it to be massive powercreep or they totally overnerf it into the ground.

      • I don’t think they will actually nerf them all, and if they do reduce the camo of the entire class, they will have to buff TD’s HP pool – if sniping breaks the game then gimme brawling qualities.

        Actually, I play my high tier TDs as brawlers and would only snipe when I am too slow (Tortoise lagging behind roflstomp pushes)

  25. This is the only way to make people play TDs less, to over nerf them, just like the artys. This also have a side effect, while TDs as a whole will perform worse they will also earn less XP and credits, making less people play them because of the costs. Just like high tier artys now days.

    Wg has proven that they listen to pussy whiners. Hope all your pussy faces are happe, specially medium players, because expect a nerf as soon as those are getting more popular. Mediums and autloaders will be the new TDs, just like heavys became the new TDs after 8.6 accurace buffs.

    Hope you are all glad, 34% WR fuckfaces. Now go fuck your medium tenks.

    • Such angry, so generalization, very exaggeration, wow.

      Who are these medium players or TD players? Don’t most players do a bit of this and that? Would that ruin your argument which is pointed beyond relevance?

      I welcome any balance change that promotes movement and dynamic gameplay, even if it ruins a given tank I may have fun with today. I’ve parked my arties (to be fair I never had any fun grinding up those two top tiers I have), and I’ll park any TD which may get excessively beaten by the ugly stick.

        • I’m still very, very happy arti is held back in it’s nerfed state. So, as far as arti is concerned, I think it was the right way to go about reducing camping.

          I don’t have my own opinion on how to make every single tank in the game equally viable if you’re interested in winning the matches or doing the most damage possible. There are many tanks in the game I think suck, either due to personal taste or (possibly imagined) objective reasons. So I’m going to be a bit humble about “which way is right”.

          My point is simply that if the TD nerfs make T10 even more fun to play than it is today I’m ok with it. Yes, I actually like playing T10. In my opinion and experience, excessive camping is more closely related to maps and player skill than TD’s themselves.

          • True, camping is all about the players, not so much about tanks. But if people still intend to camp, and now with heavy and mediums and autloaders, what will be the differance from having TDs camping? You will be shot into pieces anyways and your game will be over, not to mention nobody will move because they know there are 4-5 heavys/mediums camping on that hill, etc.

  26. - T-50-2 was “removed in the form it was before” (SS: that implies it might appear as an alternative hull to T-50 again)

    aw yis

  27. Who’s that fucking faggot player who suggested more nerf for TDs? Take accuracy from german heavy TD line, and you got fucking shit TDs.

  28. how bad I didn’t even make it to the 268 yet and they nerfing tds I hoped to enjoy that op td. Now I must lvl up t57 branch pufff I didnt even start ….

    • And why do you need to play a OP tank then? The reason WG is nerfing is just because of that, too many people playing the same tanks and hence ruin the balance.