about a year ago, I was writing the series about potential Czechoslovak tree, I noticed (first from Tuccy’s work, then after reading up stuff on my own) that Czechoslovak tree would have a serious problem with hightier tank destroyers and heavies. The result was, in the early proposal, I did cut off the TD branch at tier 6 or so and did let it be.
But, would it be possible to prolong the Czechoslovak TD branch to tier 10, contrary to what I thought earlier? Well, I think so. Here’s how I think the tier 10 vehicle would look.
A little bit of history first. From 18.11.1948 to 20.11.1948, a meeting was held at the Škoda facilities, where the Czechoslovak army representatives requested new designs for self-propelled guns, both as tank destroyers and as artillery vehicles. The result was the decision to develop two platforms for the SPG’s (for a tank destroyer, SPG and AA role): the LP platform (light, based on the T-17 light tank Škoda design) and the TVP platform (for medium and heavy vehicles).
Basically, there were two military branches attending this meeting – the artillery command and the tank destroyer command – and they sort of clashed in their demands. The tank destroyer command was preferring vehicles with low silhouette (sort of Hetzer-looking), while the artillery command was preferring taller vehicles with open fully-traverseable turret (clearly inspired by American tank destroyers, specifically the Hellcat). Please note that despite various designs, the resulting vehicle was supposed to be a “Russian- or German-style” self-propelled gun (much like the SU and StuG series), capable of both direct and indirect fire, eg. no clear distinction between an artillery piece and tank destroyer vehicle was given. The artillery command specifically preferred vehicles with high shell arcs (capable of huge elevation) and the tank destroyer command preferred low silhouette instead, but both designs were to use basically the same guns, with both sides preferring the 76,2mm, 100mm and 152mm calibers.
The result of this meeting was a demand for nine separate vehicles, which was considered completely ridiculous. However, Škoda tried to comply and by 15.2.1949, they had the preliminary study prepared. Now, I won’t go into the details of each and every vehicle obviously, but what I will do is describe the artillery command proposal for the “Hellcat” type vehicle.
As mentioned, this vehicle was proposed as a response to the artillery command. It was to weigh 32,6 tons and was equipped with a 152,4mm gun in a fully rotating turret. It was to carry 50 152mm shells and its elevation would be -5/+70 degrees. The vehicle had extremely thin armor (20mm). An alternative proposal was also created by Škoda – this time, the weapon (on the same hull) would be the 100mm A20 (roughly a Czech equivalent to the 100mm D-10 gun). The vehicle would be powered by a 983hp Škoda AHK (or ČKD AHX) V16 engine, giving it the power-to-weight ratio of 30 hp/ton. Maximum speed is unknown, but using the data from the TVP itself, which was 8 tons heavier and was projected to go as fast as 60 km/h, 60 km/h or more sounds quite realistic.
The proposal was considered until like April-May 1949, when it was cancelled in favour of a re-worked TVP TD project, resembling the “Nashorn” (which in turn got cancelled soon afterwards).
Now, I am sure you can see where this is going. What we have here is a potential tier 10 Hellcat with paper armor, but absolutely insane mobility and two historical gun options. One was the 100mm A20, the other an unspecified 152,4mm gun. We know the gun was supposed to be of an indigenous design, firing 43,5kg shells at 675 m/s. However, as I said, the design was not specified, that’s why we can add
Enter the J2 gun.
This is a Czechoslovak 152mm L/56,3 heavy cannon, developed by Škoda from September 1948. It had a screw breech and could fire a 52kg AP shell, capable of penetrating 200mm (30 degrees) at 1000m, or a 52kg HE shell with S90 mechanical fuse. It used two-piece ammunition with three charges available (one for 925m/s, one for 730m/s and one for 600m/s). As many other Czechoslovak arms projects, this one was cancelled in 1952 in favor of Czechoslovakia purchasing Soviet 152mm gun.
Now, I checked the recoil and size, it could fit the TVP-ST mount. In WoT terms, we are looking at a gun with 240-250mm penetration. In 1950, the development was transferred to Slovakia and a Soviet “advisor” got involved as well – this all hints at the fact that the gun was designed (as everything at that point) with compatibility with Soviet tech in mind. That in turn means it could fire the Soviet 152mm HEAT shells (check Soviet tier 9 and 10 152mm HEAT for reference). The original mount elevation was -5/+45.
Another problem is actually how to name this vehicle. In the book (mentioned below), it’s referred to as “152mm ShKH 43,5/675-TVP”, or “152mm samohybná houfnice v lehkém provedení”. Another way it is referred to is the archive designation of its drawing (Zb 5913-S). On the other hand, the 100mm gun design (same vehicle, 100mm gun) is called “100mm ShPTK 14,75/950-TVP”. Obviously, these names are just… awkward. To shorten it, I would propose to name it just “ShK” or “152mm ShK”, while the other TVP design would keep the “ShPTK” or “100mm ShPTK” designation.
Weight: 32,6 tons
Track width: 600mm
Engine: 983hp Škoda AHK or ČKD AHX V16, 30,15 hp/t
Gun: 100mm A20, 152mm houfnice 43,5/675, 152mm J2
Armor: 20mm front, 10mm sides
With excellent camouflage, I believe this vehicle could be pretty viable, just as the Hellcat is now, without excessive armor. If this works as tier 10, the rest of the branch would be pretty easy to put together.
M.Dubánek – Od bodáku po tryskáče
This sounds nice
To leave a +-0 comment, nice work! And yet another Czechoslovak…
su-122-54 is bit similar to this. I’m playing it right now.
But with weak depression on gun , no turret and for sure slower traverse speed. It don’t have much to offer.
Even 263 is very similar but at least have armor. This design have nothing to offer.
Huge viewrange, insane mobility?
PolakWrocek: “But with weak depression on gun , no turret ….”
quote from original post: “equipped with a 152,4mm gun in a fully rotating turret” ?
True, somehow i didn’t saw this :/ not sure why.
152mm L/56,3 gun… Capable of firing AP shells at varying speeds between 600 to 925m/s…
…Czech BL-10 gun incoming :O
When you say 10 tier i’m thinking about clan wars.
And no one will use this view-range. It’s better to send medium tank with bino. or batchat on spot.
Mobility: You can have fast medium tanks with some armor ,very good dpm , like t-62 clone army. So why to risk with this? On random this would be fun td. But useless in clan wars. Now wt-100 is 3 line sniper , fv-183 is for blinds. What can this td do? Moment it gets spotted it dies , but it don’t have mag like wt E100. So it has to stay in 2 line or 3 line. But most commanders won’t push their tanks out open field. I’m trying to think for some place on some map but just can’t find place for this.
Some commander here? Give ideas?
ps:And sorry for mistake with “no turret”. Somehow i missed it.
Luckily for me then, tanks aren’t balanced with CW in mind :)
Why use binocs on meds when you can have Coated Optics that does just as well- on the move? Remember the max spotting range is 445m.
It’s true that a weak armored TD like this won’t be popular in CW, but consider tank locking, small clans that wants to raid lands, and some funny tactics involving blob rush, this seems at least a bit viable.
Its one of basic mistakes.
More view range = more effective detection range.
You have only covered optics on tanks. You will spot moving light in 300 m why not 445? he have camo rating of ZXY.
If you had binoculars you could spot him from 320-330 m.
( i even checked this on training room few days ago)
It’s true you cant spot beyond 445m but it’s important for spotting tanks with better camo.
Running binocs on a medium tank for clan wars is just awful. If giving up the optic’s always-present effect in exchange for the slight boost in your rarely-used passive view strength sounds like a decent trade-off, then your medium play is far too static.
Hellcat with an even bigger gun at tier X? Do want :))
An excellent counterpart for the Waffentrager Panther as tier X Hellcat
“152,4mm gun in a fully rotating turret.It was to carry 50 152mm shells and its elevation would be -5/+70 degrees”
Would be a nice tier X arty, better elevation and acceleration than the 155 58 ;)
Czechoslovaks have already a tier 10 arty candidate actually: 305mm on Panther chassis
Would you believe there is more caliber available if 305mm is not enough?
There is not. The 420mm would not fit the Panther.
When germans get Karl Gerät every other arty will be useless… exept for the few battles that are over before this monster even loaded its first shell
Teh Wiki somewhat vaguely mentions a RoF of about 1 round per ten minutes…
…in which time the opposing arty would presumably already have raked over the spawn zone a few times to take the thing out, because that landwhale certainly wouldn’t be going to be evading *anything*.
STOP THAT DOGE. PLS.
Seems fun, looks like a tier 10 Borsig WT in appearances and the fully rotatable turret. For a tier 10 to have paper armor, it better have some insane capabilities like the WT E-100 does when they implement it lol
P.S – Any news on the 380 mm rocket firing Sturmtiger ? Oo
Sturmtiger will come when the line is finished. Tier 8 has been the hold up and WG finally figured out what they wanted. WG had a few options technically although data was thin.
The line will come eventually… Just like the French Heavy line.
WTE has good armor, only the turret/gun shield that is weak. It also has good amount of HP.
This could possibly work. Just find a way to extend the Heavy branch to tier 10 and WG might actually have to consider it (since the general rule with them seems to be at least three branches that extend to tier 10 is enough for a tech tree)