Buff my Tank – T-25

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Hello everyone,

I usually don’t write “buff my tank” posts (I leave it to Zarax, Priory and EnsignExpendable), but this time, I think it’s warranted, because we are going to talk about a Czech vehicle, that is implemented in the game as tier 5 premium tank – Škoda T-25. Naturally, given the fact it’s actually a premium tank, the chance of it getting a significant buff are quite low, especially since there are other circumstances as well (I’ll get to that a bit later).

T-25_front_left

Now, the reason I mentioned “other circumstances” is simple. If a Czechoslovak medium branch is ever implemented, wartime Škoda T-25 project will have to be a part of it (it’s practically impossible to build it without it) and I think we can expect the same thing as with for example the German Char B2 – the premium vehicle stays, but it’s pulled from the store, since the “original” is available now. Considering this fact (and its premium status), it’s likely that no changes will be made on the premium vehicle, but still, let’s have a look at the differences between the historical T-25 project and the ingame vehicle.

For reference, I will be using probably the most detailed source on T-25 available, P.Pilař’s article “Projekty středních tanků Škoda T-24 a T-25″ from Czech magazine HPM, Issue 5/2004 (I will repost it at the end).

Now, let’s get to it.

The Gun

The biggest change compared to its historical counterpart would probably have to be the gun. Ingame 75mm A18 is a regular gun with 116mm penetration and 14 ROF. Historically however, the T-25 was supposed to be equipped with an autoloader (unlike the tank itself, the gun actually existed and was tested in real life on a captured Tiger after the war, along with the autoloading device). The autoloader was of a drum type (Škoda developed this type extensively, especially after the war) and the gun could penetrate historically 98mm at 1000m. Given the fact German methods were used for evaluation at that point in history, it’s also safe to assume that this penetration was achieved against a 30 degrees sloped plate.

What does this give us then? Well, first, 98mm against 30 degrees is 113mm – and that’s at 1000 meters. Now, if we use the 75mm PaK 40 numbers for rough reference (I used this table), you can see that this shell loses roughly 20 percent of its penetration ability between 100 and 1000 meters. Vice versa, if we assume that the same loss applies for the A18 gun, we are looking at cca 141mm penetration right there.

The historical rate of fire (ROF is a balance parameter though) was 15 RPM, but this was apparently a factory average number. Sources from the test of the Tiger (Pejčoch) state that the gun was capable of 40 RPM burst, which sounds much more like it for an autoloader. The amount of shells in the loading mechanism is unknown (presumably 6-7).

To sum it up: historically, T-25 had a 75mm 141mm PEN gun with an autoloader. Good start.

The Rest

Unfortunately, in other aspects, the vehicle was historically worse than its ingame counterpart. For starters, it was supposed to weight 23 tons (ingame it weighs 19,6 tons). The armor was different too, according to Czech sources:

- frontal armor: 60mm both turret and frontal hull (ingame hull 50mm, turret 60mm)
- sides armor: 35mm both turret and frontal hull (ingame hull 45mm, turret 60mm)
- rear armor: 25mm (ingame hull 20mm, turret 35mm)

However, it’s worth noting that no exact armor schematic picture is shown in Czech sources.

The engine ingame is Praga C9 (450 hp), I have no idea what that engine is historically and whether it existed (is it from some German source?), also, why would a Škoda project have a Praga engine? Historically, according to both Pilař and Pejčoch, it was equipped with newly developed Škoda V12 (19,8 liter) with either 450hp (Pilař) or 443hp (Pejčoch). Francev states that the engine would be Škoda V8 (with the same 450 horsepower), but the book it is written in is quite old, the info might not be accurate. Maximum speed in the game is historical.

Conclusion

What I think will happen is that we will see “historical” T-25 at tier 6 in the Czechoslovak medium branch (with T-24 at tier 5), while the German one will get pulled from the shop. Either way, here is the original article (in Czech of course):

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34 thoughts on “Buff my Tank – T-25”

  1. Well, the fact that T-25 is the best tier 5 premium tank, while being non russian, ment that it’s removal was just a matter of time…
    So the tier 6 version would be like an amx 12t ? Not a bad machine if it gets normal MM

      • I have the RAM and T-25. RAM but it costs 1/6 more and as for me, does not have the gun depression to use that DpM. And mobility is inferior to T-25. But I must say that RAM’s armour can be trollish agains tier 3-5s.

      • Exactly. The limited MM makes it better :) Just look at the H35 and the PnzH35. They changed the MM and now I don’t remember when is the last time I saw the premium one ingame :P

        • B2 is a nerfed B1 (rather, a non-elite B1…) with the MM we, B2 drivers, know and LOVE. Now B2 vs B1, I had a few fights against them where I had to spam gold, but it wasn’t that fair because the enemy B1 were in all cases inexperienced players.

          It is a fantastic tank, I absolutely love it, I don’t regret buying the overpriced pack JT88+10kgold+1month prem+B2, it gave me, gives me and will give me hours of enjoyment.

          • Got the B2 for free and hate it. Liked the B1 way more, neither of them is a keeper (although I actually thought about keeping the B1). The B2 gun and crew mix is just so horribly useless..

        • There is a big difference between the H35 and Pz38H though because the German variant is the H38, with vastly better gun.

          I thought I’d give the H35 a go as my H38 is so good and none of the guns available come close the the German SA38.

  6. Before the “great accuracy buff” the T-25 was not so appealing, it had very little effect in battles, but now it cant miss many shots and i can manage to do insane amounts of damage with it. Great article SS.

    • You must have been doing something wrong, the “Skodaboat” kicked ass even back in the Dark Ages of 3-tier MM when I was still a snot-nosed noob.

  8. Would be the T-15 pulled from shop too, if Czechoslovak light tank branch is added into the game?

  9. “Vice versa, if we assume that the same loss applies for the A18 gun, we are looking at cca 136mm penetration right there.”
    Your math is incorrect. If you lose 20% of penetration, it means the 113 is 80% of the pen, and thus 100% is 113*5/4 = 141 (5/4 is ofc 100/80)

  10. All those gun buff parameters…

    …and I just want it to have a good hull traverse…

  13. If we compare the T-25 to the other tier 5 premiums. Its DMP is the highest. 2nd highest pen. And the ROF is not bad. And its very mobile. And it got a HT hit point pool.

    If any of the tier 5 premiums needs a buff.. its the Tier V Matilda IV. 86 AP pen and 102 APCR pen was fine and dandy when it came out. But with all the tanks added of late and other stuff. Its not much you can pen head on with AP. And even if you use gold ammo. Most tier 4 tanks still got more pen then you do with their AP ammo.

    Less then 10% chance to pen a KV-1 head on with AP is not fun. So yeah. I’m a gold n00b when driving that one.

    But as for my fav tier 5 tanks. Churchill III as a crew trainer. The Ram II as a money maker. And The Excelsior as the fun tank. Still. The T-25 is still an excellent tank in game.

  14. It’s weird, for me, to see someone else use that article, since it’s the best source of information about the T-25, as you said, I could find, but also not so easy to find. I even asked on the WoT forum for a translation given the scans (I don’t know czech), as I needed more info on the dimensions and minor details, like front or rear transmission, since I was thinking about building a replica, possibly in 1:1 scale.

    Regarding the engine, who translated it for me wrote “The T-25 project on the other hand counted on a diesel engine. That demand, however, was cancelled and in the end, the project had a petrol engine with a smaller auxilliary engine, also running on gas. The main engine was an OHV air-cooled V12 engine (total displacement: 19814ccm), giving 450hp at 3000 RPM. The auxilliary engine was an in-line 4-cylinder engine with a 2383ccm volume, reaching peak power of 50hp at 3000 RPM. The auxilliary engine served to power up the main engine and to power two massive fans. It was started either by electricity, or by a crank from the combat compartment – the main engine was in turn started by the auxilliary one via a geared flywheel”

    http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/164117-czech-tank-magazine-article-translation/

  15. The one in the European tree should have the autoloader option and the German Premium one should stay in game as is.