Author: Karika

In my previous article, we examined the main aspects and problems with the Hungarian tech tree, which could look something like this in the future as a part of the European tech tree:

From now on, I’ll show you how could these Hungarian tanks and tank destroyers perform in World of Tanks with their historical characteristics.

But, before I start, I must note that I could/would not and predict game parameters like the vehicle health pool (HP), or gun alpha damage, because these are the aspects of in-game balance, and I’m not an expert in that. This applies also to the historical attributes, which are sacrificed to vehicle balance, such as the reload time, rate of fire (RoF), hull/turret traverse speed, terrain passability, radio signal range, and so on. These so not or only rarely correspond to their real life equivalents. Consequently, properties like historical RoF or the type (or even existence) of the radio does not really matter from now on, but I’ll write them down anyway. The armor penetration values are in WoT terms, thus how much armor would they penetrate in 90° at 100m distance with standard armor piercing (AP) rounds.

And lastly, I am not going to predict whether any of these tanks would be “good” or “bad”. These are very subjective terms and it is way too early right now to decide this.

Now, let’s take a closer look at the Hungarian light tank candidates! As I mentioned previously, Tier 1 in the EU tree is problematic and it is not yet decided how will Wargaming solve this issue. However, there are two major candidates for the Hungarian tier 1 tank, but both of them could be used as tier 2s, if WG decides some other way.

V-3 – Tier I regular or Tier II premium/gift

Above: The early, turretless V-3 prototype

Above: Illustration, how could the V-3 with the early V-4 turret at the late stage of its development look like

Above: The modified British version of the V-3, also known as Alvis-Straussler Light-Medium Tank

Possible vehicle description
One of the first Hungarian attempts to create a wheel-cum-truck convertible and amphibious tank. Developed by Nicholas (Miklós) Straussler, Hungarian-born English designer in cooperation with the Hungarian Weiss Manfréd firm for a tender by the British Army. Two prototype chassis were made in 1936, one for the British Army, and another one secretly for the Royal Hungarian Army. After the trials, the Hungarian V-3 chassis recieved a provisional turret and the concept was further developed to the V-4.

History:
You can read about the history of the Straussler tanks here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/05/hung … ler-tanks/

Characteristics:

Crew: 3, Commander, Gunner, Driver

Gun: 40mm 37 M.
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: ?
Penetration with AP: approx. 60mm
Gun depression, elevation: ?

Armor: 26/13/9

Stock turret: Alvis-Straussler Light-Medium
Turret armor: ?

Elite turret: V-4 early
Turret armor: ?

Weight: 10 t
Engines:
- WM V3, petrol, 100 hp
- WM V3/2 (WM A.C. II), petrol, 110-120 hp
- Alvis, petrol, 145 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 14,5 hp/t
Maximum speed on tracks: 36 km/h

Radio: none

Notes and predictable in-game performance:

This tank was only amphibious with attached pontoons, so it can be implemented to the game as a regular light tank without them. I have limited data about the further fate of the British V-3 prototype (also referred to sometimes as Alvis-Straussler Light-Medium Tank) right now. I do not know if anything else (such as armor thickness, gun, etc.) was modified on it, except its suspension. I also do not know yet which turret was “better”, I assume the provisional V-4 turret might be, because it was designed a bit later than the British turret. But I have to note, that I’m not sure about many things of these tanks.

I do not know the exact name or type of the British Alvis engine yet.

Pros: (for tier 1)
- Good front armor
- Good gun (if too good, can be balanced with bad soft stats)
- Probably good gun depression
- Decent power-to-weight ratio

Cons: (for tier 1)
- Probably bad soft stats?
- Only one historical armament
- Possibly would be replaced with something else at tier 1

Turreted 35M. Ansaldo experiment – Tier I regular or Tier II premium/gift

Possible vehicle description
An experiment from 1936 to upgrade the attack and self-defense capability of the 35M. Ansaldo tankette with a rotating turret. Comparative trials showed that this turretted Ansaldo had many issues and was inferior to the original Ansaldo tankette in many aspects and thus, the development was halted. Only one prototype was made.

History:
You can read about the history of the Ansaldo experiments here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/07/30/on-t … o-and-wot/

Characteristics:

Crew: 2, Commander/Gunner, Driver

Gun: 2x 8mm 34/37A M. Gebauer machine gun
This gun is just too weak!

Gun: 12,7mm 40 M. Gebauer GMK heavy machine gun
Ammo types: ?
Ammo capacity: ?
Shells in magazine: ?
Theoretic RoF: cca. 900-1000 shots/min
Penetration with AP: ? (probably somewhat less than 27mm)
Gun depression, elevation: ?

Armor: 13/8/6

Turret: Experimental turret
Turret armor: ?

Weight: approx. 3,4 t
Engine: Fiat CV 3-005, petrol, 45 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: approx. 13,2 hp/t
Maximum speed: 38 km/h

Radio: none

Notes and predictable in-game performance:

This tank has many issues, it’s questionable if it would made it in the game at all.

Historically the 8mm Gebauer twin machine gun only fired infantry rounds and no armor-piercing (AP) ammo was in service for it amongst the ground forces. However, unhistorically, it could get AP rounds from the 8mm guns of the Royal Hungarian Air Force, but it would be still too under powered for in-game use. Do not compare this gun to the 7,92mm Mauser E.W. 141 machine gun of the in-game Pz. I C, that is a special, fully automatic anti-tank machine gun, while the 8mm Gebauer was just a regular infantry one, designed to be used against live forces. It is unsuited to fight/penetrate tanks.

The exact rate of fire (ROF) of the 12,7mm 40 M. Gebauer is unknown, but because it was practically the same gun as the 8mm 26/31 M. Gebauer motor driven machine gun in larger caliber, we can speculate that it had similar, high ROF. Unfortunately, the size of the magazine or ammo belt of the 12,7mm gun used in the experiment is also not known. The ammunition for this gun would be probably imported Italian 12,7mm AP and HEIT (High-Explosive-Incendiary-Tracer) rounds.

There aren’t any photographs or bluebrints about this tankette published yet, only descriptions. It’s not known how exactly its turret looked like, only that it was mounted on the left side of the vehicle. I assume the exterior would be similar to the Italian turretted L/3 experiments.

I’m not sure if this vehicle is really suitable for a tier 2 light tank role, even as a premium. It’s possible that this tankette will be scrapped and won’t be implemented, because it’s just too weak. It will depend on the balancing. Technically, it would have similar 12,7mm gun as the in-game Browning MG caliber .50 HB, M2 machine gun of the T7 Combat Car, American tier 2 gift tank with a bit lower penetration, but significantly higher ROF. This, with the average mobility and useless armor is not a too good start for a would-be in-game tank.

If needed, this tank can be replaced with the Ansaldo II experimental tankette, which was a regular 35M. Ansaldo armed with the above mentioned 12,7mm heavy machine gun, without turret.

Above: The original 35M. Ansaldo

Pros:
- Incredibly high theoretic rate of fire (around 900-1000 shots/min)
- Probably high burst damage
- Low profile thus excellent camo
- Small target
- Issues could be compensated with good soft stats?
- Limited MM a la Pz I.?

Cons:
- Not much known about it
- Bad armor
- Average mobility
- Low penetration and alpha damage
- Lightweight, thus vulnerable to ramming
- Maybe too weak for tier 2, depends on the soft-stats and balance

V4 – Tier 2

Above: V-4 early

Above: V-4 late

Possible vehicle description:
In 1936, Nicholas Straussler ordered the improved version of the V-3 from the WM factory, the V-4. Two prototypes were made, one for export and one for the Hungarian Army. In 1938, the further developed V-4 underwent comparative trials with the Landsverk L-60, where the Swedish light tank was chosen as superior. After the unsuccessful tests, the Hungarian Ministry of Defence cancelled the order for 110 V-4s and decided to buy the licence for the L-60 production instead, which later became the base for the Toldi light tank series.

History:
You can read about the history of the Straussler tanks here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/05/hung … ler-tanks/

Characteristics:

Crew (in V-4/1): 3, Commander, Gunner, Driver
Crew (in V-4/2): 4, Commander, Gunner, Driver, Loader

Gun: 40mm 37 M.
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: ?
Penetration with AP: approx. 60mm
Gun depression, elevation: -15° +17°

Armor: 26/13/9

Stock turret: V-4/1
Turret armor: ?

Elite turret: V-4/2
Turret armor: ?

Weight: 12,7 t
Engines:
- Alvis, petrol, 160 hp
- WM V4 (2x WM A.C. II), petrol, 180 hp
- WM V4 improved, petrol, 200 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 15,7 hp/t
Maximum speed on tracks: 32 km/h

Radio: ? (probably R/1)

Notes and predictable in-game performance:

This tank was only amphibious with attached pontoons, so it can be implemented to the game as a regular light tank. For the sake of simplicity, let’s call the first prototype (export) version V-4/1, and the second (Hungarian, modified) version V-4/2. These are unofficial names though. The V-4/1 had one less crew member than the V-4/2. However, I assume this difference between the capacity of the two turrets probably will not be modelled in the game and the stock V-4 will have 4 crew members as well. The shape of the frontal hull armor was different on the two V-4 variants, thus these could be used as alternative hull options.

I do not know the exact name or type of the British Alvis engine.

Pros:
- Above average, -15° historical gun depression
- Above average, lightly sloped front armor
- Acceptable mobility
- Decent (historical) gun

Cons:
- Average top speed
- Only one historical gun available

38M. Toldi I – Tier 2

Possible vehicle description
The first mass-produced Hungarian light tank, based on the design of the Swedish Landsverk L-60. In total, 80 38M. Toldi I (Toldi A20) were manufactured in 1938. In 1940, second series of the Toldi light tank was ordered, in which it was required that every key component must be manufactured domestically and minor upgrades were made as well. 110 38 M. Toldi II (Toldi B20) were made.

History:
You can read about the history of the Toldi I and the Toldi II here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/06/hung … t-3-toldi/ and here http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/16/hung … toldi-iii/

Characteristics:

Crew: 3, Commander/Radioman, Gunner, Driver

Historical gun: 20mm 36 M. Solothurn heavy machine gun
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: 208
Shells in autoloader: 4
Penetration with AP: approx. 33-40mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10° +30°

Other, considered guns:
- 20mm Madsen autocannon
- 20mm Bofors autocannon
- 23mm Madsen autocannon
- 25mm Bofors autocannon
- 37mm Bofors anti-tank gun
- (40mm 37 M. anti-tank gun)

Armor: 13-23/13/7

Stock turret: Toldi I
Turret armor: 13/13/13

Elite turret: Toldi II
Turret armor: 13/13/13

Weight: 8,5 t
Engines:
- Scania Vabis, petrol, 145 hp
- Büssing NAG type L8 V/36 TR, petrol, 155 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 18,2 hp/t
Maximum speed: 50 km/h

Radios:
- R/5
- R/5a

Notes and predictable in-game performance:

Could be researched from the Swedish L-60 light tank too.

Could recieve more modules from the L-60, if needed.

The vehicle was named after the renowned Hungarian medieval nobleman and legendary hero, Miklós Toldi.

The stock and elite turrets are nearly identical. The only differences: the Toldi I turret had the loop antenna of the R/5 radio and a small splicing on the top to give enough space for the magazine of the coaxial 8mm machine gun. The R/5 was replaced with the R/5a with rod antenna, and the splicing was removed on the second series, the 38M. Toldi II. Their hulls, armaments and suspensions were the same.

The 40mm 37 M. gun (historical gun of the V-4) was considered for a very short time on the Toldi I too, but the suggestion was rejected, because the Military Leaderboard thought that it would be too powerful for a light scout tank. A few years later, that gun was a little bit modified and it was used during the rearming of the Toldi II tanks to Toldi IIAs. However, I think the tier 2 Toldi I does not really need this gun, because the in-game tier 3 Toldi IIA would get it anyway and there are plenty of other considered guns to implement.

Could participate in the upcoming Historical Battle mode.

In real life, thanks to the unique steering system of the original Swedish L-60 – the vehicle was controlled through a steering wheel instead of levers – the early Toldi models were unable to turn on the spot, “on their heels”, like most of the tanks because it was unable to completely halt the track on one side while turning. The narrowest turning radius was 8 meters, but I doubt that this will be modelled in the game, it would make the driving of the Toldi very difficult for an inexperienced player.

Pros:
- Fast and nimble
- Good acceleration
- Many alternative gun options
- Excellent gun depression

Cons:
- Poor armor
- Underwhelming historical gun
- Frontal transmission
- Odd historical steering system, can not turn in one place IRL

38M. Toldi IIA – Tier 3

Possible vehicle description
Further development and rearming of the existing Toldi II light tanks. The frontal armor was thickened and the 20mm heavy machine gun was replaced with a 40mm tank gun. Because of their relatively weak and fragile torsion bars, the Toldi I tanks could not be upgraded. In total, 80 38M. Toldi II (Toldi B20) were upgraded to 38M. Toldi IIA (Toldi B40) between 1943-44.

History:
You can read about the history of the Toldi IIA here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/16/hung … toldi-iii/

Characteristics:

Crew: 3, Commander/Radioman, Gunner, Driver

Gun: 40mm 37 M. L/?
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: ?
Penetration with AP: approx. 60mm
Gun depression, elevation: ?

Historical gun: 40mm 37/42 M. L/45
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: 55
Historical ROF: 15-16 shots/min
Penetration with AP: approx. 64mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10° +25°

Armor: 23/13/7

Stock turret: Toldi IIA prototype
Turret armor: 35/13/13

Elite turret: Toldi IIA
Turret armor: 35/13/13

Weight: 9,35 t
Engine: Büssing NAG type L8 V/36 TR, petrol, 155 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 16,6 hp/t
Maximum speed: 47 km/h

Radio: R/5a

Notes and predictable in-game performance:

The stock, ’Toldi IIA prototype’ turret is technically a Toldi IIA turret without the welded metal box on the back of the turret. That Toldi IIA prototype was armed with the 40mm 37 M. gun of the V-4, which gun was later modified to 40mm 37/42 M. on the serial Toldi IIA.

Above: Prototype Toldi IIA

The connection between the V-4 and the Toldi IIA is logical, because the Toldi IIA used the modified, upgraded version of the V-4’s gun. Could participate in the upcoming Historical Battle mode. Same problem with the turning as on the tier 2 Toldi I.

Pros:
- Still fast and nimble, even if not as good as the tier 2 Toldi
- Excellent gun depression

Cons:
- Poor armor
- Mediocre historical gun
- Frontal transmission
- Odd historical steering system, serial version can not turn in one place IRL

Toldi IIAK as Toldi IIA “kötényezett” – Tier 3 premium

Possible vehicle description
In 1943, in order to increase the armor of the Toldi IIA against anti-tank rifles, the Hungarian Institute of Military Science made some experiments with installing German “Schürzen”-like additional side armor plates on its hull and turret. However, the experiments showed that these additional armor plates did not provide a lot more protection compared to the gained weight and reduced mobility. After the failed trials, the project was cancelled.

History:
You can read about the history of the Toldi IIA here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/16/hung … toldi-iii/

Characteristics:

Crew: 3, Commander/Radioman, Gunner, Driver

Gun: 40mm 37/42 M. L/45
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: 55
Historical ROF: 15-16 shots/min
Penetration with AP: approx. 64mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10° +25°

Armor: 23/13/7
Side-skirts: 5mm

Turret: Toldi IIAK
Turret armor: 35/13/13
Side-skirts: 5mm

Weight: 9,85 t
Engine: Büssing NAG type L8 V/36 TR, petrol, 155 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 15,7 hp/t
Maximum speed: 43 km/h

Radio: R/5a

Notes and predictable in-game performance:
The Toldi IIAK name is not official, it’s just used by some of the Hungarian books and aricles referring to this tank. It’s just the shortened version of the “Toldi IIA kötényezett” term, which literally means “Toldi IIA with apron”. (Note: apron as the word “Schürzen” in german, reffering to the additional armor plates on the sides.)

Similar to the Toldi IIA, only it’s slightly heavier and equipped with 5mm thick side-skirts. Probably would get only historical modules.

It’s a good choice for premium role, as only one was ever created, it has technically only one historical option for each module, and the overall vehicle is in between the stock and elite configuration of the same tier researchable light tank – slightly better armor, in exchange for a bit worse mobility.

Same problem with the turning as on the tier 2 Toldi I.

Pros:
- Good for light tank crew training
- Excellent gun depression
- Side-skirts (even if it is just minimal plus protection)

Cons:
- Poor armor
- Mediocre historical gun
- A bit slow and sluggish for scouting
- Frontal transmission
- Odd historical steering system, can not turn in one place IRL

43M. Toldi III – Tier 3

Possible vehicle description
Further development of the Toldi light tank series with increased armor, redesigned steering system and enlarged turret. Even before the prototype was finished, 280 43M. Toldi III (Toldi C40) were ordered in 1941. But because of the serious decline of the combat value of the light tank class on the battlefields, the military leadership later reduced this number in several steps to only 12 vehicles. However, these 12 tanks have not been completely finished and left incomplete because of the serious lack of production capacity and raw materials in 1944. After 1945, they were scrapped.

History:
You can read about the history of the Toldi III here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/16/hung … toldi-iii/

Characteristics:

Crew: 3, Commander/Radioman, Gunner, Driver

Gun: 40mm 37/42 M. L/45
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: 87
Historical ROF: 15-16 shots/min
Penetration with AP: approx. 64mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10° +25°

Armor: 20-35/13/10

Turret: Toldi III
Turret armor: 35/20/20

Weight: 9,45 t
Engine: Ganz VIII. VGT. 107, petrol, 155 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 16,4 hp/t
Maximum speed: 45 km/h

Radio: R/5a

Notes and predictable in-game performance:
The connection between the V-4 and the Toldi III is logical, because the Toldi III used the modified, upgraded version of the V-4’s gun. The Toldi III with the historical modules is just too weak to be a tier 4 scout type light tank. It would need an unhistorical, stronger engine and maybe a stronger gun too, to buff it up to tier 4.

Pros:
- Excellent gun depression
- Slightly above-average armor, but not too sloped
- Okay mobility

Cons:
- Mediocre historical gun
- A bit slow and sluggish for scouting (with the historical engine)
- Frontal transmission

Alternative low tier (more or less) Hungarian light tanks

LK II

In 1921, Hungary, soon after the Great War ended, purchased 14 LK II light tank from the military equipment of the decommissioning German army, with Swedish help. These tanks soon have been hidden from the Entente Military Inter-Allied Commission of Control until 1928. After the commission left Hungary, these LK IIs were used secretly as a training/excercising tanks till 1930. They never saw combat.

Characteristics:

Crew: 4

Gun: 8mm 7/12 M. Schwarzlose machine gun
This gun is just too weak!

Armor: 14/14/14

Weight: 8,4 t
Engines:
- Benz 1910, petrol, 55 hp
- NAG, petrol, 55 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 6,5 hp/t
Max speed on road: 14 km/h
Max speed off-road: 3,5 km/h

Radio: none

As you can see, this tank with these features is just useless and there aren’t any historical module to buff it up somehow. Even though this World War I era German light tank was the first real tank in Hungarian service, with the historical characteristics, it’s just too weak to be even a tier I tank in WoT. Therefore, we probably won’t see the LK II in the Hungarian tech tree.

But maybe it’ll be the part of the Swedish tier I candidate, the Strv. m/21-29. http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/03/07/swed … rv-m21-29/

Fiat 3000B

Above: Fiat 3000Bs and LK IIs in Hungarian service

A perfect candidate for to be the Italian tier 1 tank. Technically a license built, slightly modified Renault FT-17, which was produced by the Italians. Between 1930-1938, 5 Fiat 3000B light tanks were in Hungarian service as training-instructor tanks, but they were only armed with a World War I era 8mm 7/12 M. Schwarzlose machine gun, which is just too weak armament against tanks. They never saw combat in Hungarian service. Same case as the LK II, we probably won’t see this tank in the Hungarian tech tree.

V-3 export / Alvis-Straussler Light-Medium Tank

This could be either a part/configuration of the Hungarian V-3 light tank or could be a low tier Hungarian or British premium/gift tank.

V-3 Japanese export version

Note: this picture is just a book illustration, the real life vehicle could differ from it!

In 1935, the WM factory developed an export proposal, to sell a completed V-3 prototype or its license to Japan. But the negotiations were unsuccessful, so nothing came out of this plan. Not much is known about this vehicle, only that it was planned and developed for some time. This tank could be either a Hungarian or a Japanese low tier premium light tank.

35M. Ansaldo

This tankette with the historical 8mm 34/37A M. Gebauer twin-machine gun is just too weak for even tier 1 in WoT.

Ansaldo II

This 35M. Ansaldo plan with the 12,7mm 42 M. Gebauer GMK heavy machine gun is problematic for many reasons. In my opinion it can not be balanced in its soft stats enough, to compensate the lack of rotating turret, the useless armor, the mediocre mobility, and the low penetration value of the gun.

Light tank proposal by Jenő Fejes

Note: this picture is just a book illustration, the real life vehicle could differ from it!

Not much is known about this tank above, only that it was a tender drawing for the Ministry of Defence in the late 1930’s by the Hungarian inventor Jenő Fejes. It’ll need some further research.

The Hungarian mediums will be described in the next part.