Author: Karika
In this part, we’ll take a look at how could the Hungarian Turán medium tanks be implemented into WoT. Everything is the same as in the previous article: I will not predict game parameters (health points or alpha damage) and the balance parameters (radiorange, RoF, etc.) would not necessarely be implemented as I listed them below.
Please note that these are only the historical characteristics, so presumably (!) these would be only the stock or intermediate configurations of the in-game tanks, not the final ones.
Turán – Tier IV
Possible vehicle description
In 1940 the Hungarian Ministry of Defence decided to buy the licence of the yet unfinished design of the Czechoslovak T-21 medium tank, to solve the problem of the missing medium tank class in Hungarian service as soon as possible. However, because the prototype needed plenty of modifications and suffered from many breakdowns during its development, the first 40M. Turán I medium tanks only arrived to the troops in the Summer of 1942. Soon after that, the need for a higher caliber gun arose, so between 1942-1943, the Turán was further developed to 41M. Turán II and recieved a short 75mm cannon in a modified turret. Approximately 459-462 Turán I and Turán II were manufactured during the war.
History:
You can read about the history of the Turán I and Turán II here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/11/25/hung … velopment/ and here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/05/31/hung … -turan-ii/
Characteristics:
Crew: 5, Commander, Gunner, Driver, Radioman, Loader
Gun: 40mm 42 M. L/45
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: ?
Historical ROF: 15-16 shots/min
Penetration with AP: approx. 64mm
Gun depression, elevation: ?
Gun: 40mm 41 M. L/51
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: 101
Historical ROF: 12 shots/min
Penetration with AP: approx. 72mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10°, +30°
Gun: 75mm 41 M. L/25
Ammo types: AP, HE
Ammo capacity: 52
Historical ROF: 12 shots/min
Penetration with AP: ? (low, around 30-40mm)
Gun depression, elevation: -10°, +30°
Armor: 50/25/25
Side-skirts: 8mm
Stock turret: Turán I
Turret armor: 50/25/25
Commander cupola front armor: 25
Side-skirts: 8mm
Elite turret: Turán II
Turret armor: 50/25/25
Side-skirts: 8mm
Weight:
- Turán I: 18 t (with side-skirts: 18,5 t)
- Turán II: 19,2 t (with side-skirts: 19,8 t)
Engines:
- Škoda V-8, petrol, 240 hp
- WM V-8H, petrol, 260 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 13,1-14,4 hp/t
Maximum speed: 43-47 km/h
Radios:
- R/5a
- R/4-T
- R/4a
Notes and predictable in-game performance:
Could be researched from the Š-IIc or T-21 medium tank of the Czechoslovak tech tree. Could recieve more modules from the T-21, if needed.
The only differences between the Turán I and II were their turret and armament, plus the shape of the driver’s hatch door. Everything else, such as the armor, radio, engine, etc. were the same. Even though the Turán II was considered a heavy tank in the Hungarian tank classification terminology, in WoT it would be still a medium tank.
Both the Turán I and the Turán II recieved side-skirts during the war, so these additional side armor plates could be added to the in-game tanks too, maybe as alternative hull options.
Both vehicles could participate in the upcoming Historical Battle mode.
Pros:
- Excellent gun depression
- Optional side-skirts
- Acceptable top speed
Cons:
- Choice between a 40mm gun or a short 75mm. Both gun are relatively weak/mediocre for that tier.
- Average and unsloped armor
- Commander cupola is relatively big and poorly armored on the Turán I
- Average mobility and sluggish acceleration (with the historical engine)
43M. Turán III – Tier V
Possible vehicle description
Planned upgrade to put a long 75mm gun on the Turán medium tank. The mass-production never started, because of the late war limited resources and slow development of the desired gun. Only one complete prototype was made.
History:
You can read about the history of the Turán III here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/06/04/hung … turan-iii/
Characteristics:
Crew: 5, Commander, Gunner, Driver, Radioman, Loader
Gun: 75mm 43 M. L/43
Ammo types: AP, APCR, HEAT and HE
Ammo capacity: 32
Historical ROF: 12 shots/min
Penetration with AP: 113mm
Penetration with HEAT in 60°: 90mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10° +30°
Armor: 75/35/35
Side-skirts: 8mm
Turret: Turán III serial (with side-skirts)
Turret armor: 75/35/55
Commander cupola front armor: 60
Side-skirts: 8mm
Weight: 21 t (with side-skirts: 23,3 t)
Engine: WM V-8H, petrol, 260 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: 12,4 hp/t (11,2 hp/t)
Maximum speed: 39 km/h (37 km/h)
Radios:
- R/5a
- R/4-T
Notes and predictable in-game performance:
The historical gun have similar attributes as the 7,5cm KwK 40 L/48 cannon, the in-game top armament of the Pz. IV Ausf. H, tier 5 German medium tank.
With the historical engine, the mobility would be probably the main weakness of this medium tank. Presumably, it will have similar acceleration and mobility as the in-game B1, tier 4 French heavy tank with it.
The commander cupola on the top of the Turán III turret was just huge. It will be a disadvantage, a major weakspot in the game.
Same case as on the Turán II, because even though the Turán III was considered a heavy tank in the Hungarian tank classification terminology, it would be still a medium tank in WoT.
The side-skirts were mounted in the factory, they were the part of the standard equipment.
Pros:
- Above average turret armor
- Above average hull armor for a medium tank
- Decent gun
- Excellent gun depression
- Side-skirts
Cons:
- Huge commander cupola, “tumor”
- Unsloped armor
- Poor mobility and sluggish acceleration (with the historical engine)
- Low historical ammo capacity (probably will be buffed in the game)
Turán III “prototype” – Tier V premium
Possible vehicle description
Between September 1943 and February 1944, before the first complete Turán III was finished, the 2H-012 licence plate Turán II chassis was used as a testbed for the Turán III turret development.
History:
You can read about the history of the Turán III here: http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/06/04/hung … turan-iii/
Characteristics:
Crew: 5, Commander, Gunner, Driver, Radioman, Loader
Gun: 75mm 43 M. L/43 tank-gun
Ammo types: AP, APCR, HEAT and HE
Ammo capacity: 32
Historical ROF: 12 shots/min
Penetration with AP: 113mm
Penetration with HEAT in 60°: 90mm
Gun depression, elevation: -10° +30°
Armor: 50/25/25
No side-skirts
Turret: Turán III prototype
Turret armor: 75/35/55
Commander cupola front armor: 60
No side-skirts
Weight: ? (cca. 19,5 t)
Engine: WM V-8H, petrol, 260 hp
Power-to-weight ratio: ? (cca. 13,3 hp/t)
Maximum speed: ? (cca. 45 km/h)
Radios:
- R/5a
- R/4-T
Notes and predictable in-game performance:
Its in-game name is problematic. The only finished 43M. Turán III was practically the prototype, and this vehicle was nothing but a Turán II test bed for the Turán III turret, a stage of the development, not the proper „Turán III prototype”. But I could not figure out any better name yet.
It’s a good choice for premium role, as only one was ever built, it has only one historical option for each module, and the overall vehicle is in between the stock and elite configuration of the same tier researchable medium tank – slightly better mobility, in exchange for worse hull armor.
The commander cupola on the top of the Turán III turret was just huge. It will be a disadvantage, a major weakspot in the game.
Very similar to the regular Turán III: same gun, same engine, a little bit simplified turret but on the hull of Turán II, the Hungarian tier 4 medium tank. This tank would not get side-skirts.
Above: The small difference between the turret of the early, wooden turret and the later, would have been serial turret.
Pros:
- Excellent for crew training, because both the Turáns and the Tas have the same crew setup.
- Above average turret front armor
- Decent gun
- Excellent gun depression
Cons:
- Huge commander cupola, “tumor”
- Bad mobility
- Sluggish acceleration for a medium tank
- Weak, unsloped hull armor
- Low historical ammo capacity (probably will be buffed in the game)
The Tas medium tank will be described in the next part.
Nice article.
So is hungrary going to be in the EU tree? Or is this just to show its possible to put them there?
It will be, yes.
We already have quadrillion articles about Hungarian armor, so this is nothing more than a pointless Copy-Paste article flow without any goal.
A Hungarian reader.
And most of historical correct articles are made by karika and now he (I think it’s he) just puts it all together and tell how it could work in game
Who is karika btw.?
I am sure it is being mentioned somewhere but I don’t want to start a high priority investigation while I can simply ask.
Exactly. Those articles are focused on the history of these tanks and tank destroyers, and they are not really about their would be in-game performance in particular. I just wanted to present them to the readers who do not really care about history, and just want to compare them to already in-game vehicles or just want to imagine how could they perform at all. Plus, there are some corrections I want to make based on the research I’ve done since those historical articles were written.
If you want to now go is karika check who have written this article
43M Turan III
Huge commander cupola, “tumor”
“it’s not a tumor, it’s not a tumor!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag4ehM0WoOY
each post about these tanks reminds me how much I desire them in game!
Also 43M. Turan III has boobs… that machinegun on 2nd photo…
if you see something else besides machine guns, i got bad news for you!
Hey Karika, are you Hungarian (if yes then Csá!) or you are only a fellow blogger on the FTR forum who simply just voluntered (as tribute :D) to do a reasearch on those tanks?
Csá!
Both. As my player name suggests, I’m Hungarian, and I research the Hun tanks and AFVs as a hobby :)
We have discussed it earlier on the Hungarian forums, where I stated that the Turán I/II would be simply useless in tier 4. Bad armor, bad speed, bad guns. It is a tier 3 tank no matter how you put it. Unless it gets a totaly unhistorical buff, it will be literaly the worst t4 tank out there, worse than even the VK or the B1, something that would be pwnt by an AMX-40 in 1v1. I mean…. look at the Panzer III, in randoms, it is considered a mediocre tank, while it got nearly twice the speed and frontal armor as the Turán, and better gun selection too.
Btw, about that premium Tiger leaked from supertest, it would be nice if it landed in the Hungarian branch :D
Even if the Turán is a bit undergunned at tier 4, it would be clearly OP at tier 3 because of its armor, just compare it to the other already in-game vehicles, :
Turán: 50/25+8/25
M2 Medium: 32/18/13
Vickers Medium Mk. III: 14/9/9
Pz.Kpfw. IV Ausf. A: 14/14/14
D2: 40/40/40
Type 97 Chi-Ha: 25/25/20
And most of the tier 3 tanks can only penetrate maximum 50-60mm of armor, so the 40mm gun is OP too at there. Plus the mobility is not that bad to compensate this.
And if we get a Tiger, to what tank would you train the Hungarian heavy crew for? :P
I think the having a Hungarian Tiger would be enough of a reason to implement a Hungarian Tiger :P I mean which Hungarian player would not like to drive it for it’s own sake?
Also, I think the Turán could be balanced out at tier 3 with horribad soft stats, which would be probably historicaly accurate anyways (bad ground pressure, bad view and radio range, inaccurate gun). It could be like a tier 3 KV-1, only less OP. And btw I hardly know any tier 3 tank with less than 50mm pen, and keep in mind that one could not do sidescraping / angling with this tank cus the 20mm side plate. Also, as you can see on the drawing oyu posted, the front of the Turáns are literaly full of weakspots, the turret has a tumor, and the front plate has machine gun and viewports. I do not know if the LFP was thinner than the UFP, but if so, it would have the frontal transmission weakspot like germans.
Okay, I got your point, a Hungarian Tiger would be nice :) But it would have very low priority, and anyway, I think that such “cloning” method should be avoided, but we’ll see.
However, I still do not agree with you about the Turán.
First, what you suggest is to balance the Turán as a heavy tank. But that’s clearly a medium tank, and the medium tanks as a class are not about the armor, the mobility and the firepower are more important. Even if the gun selection is very similar to the Pz. IV A, the tier 3 german medium, that tank have only 14mm of armor, and the Turán is not that slow to compensate its 50mm thick frontal armor PLUS the decent armament AND acceptable mobility. It would be too good at tier 3.
At tier 4, the only issue would be the underperforming gun, but it’s much easier to solve this, than balance the Turán to tier 3.
Second, if the Turán I and II would be down tiered to tier 3, what would be the Hungarian tier 4 medium? Putting to tier 3 would cause more problems than it would solve.
Third, the frontal vertical part of the armor (UFP in this point of view) was 50mm in 72° (52mm EFF), the sloped middle part was 25mm in 12° (120mm EFF), and the LFP was also 50mm, but most of it was in 60° (57mm EFF). The UFP and the LFP had the same thickness, but the LFP had a bit better slope.
And forth, the transmission of the Turán was on the back of the vehicle. It did not resembled to the classic German layout, it was a Czech design.
At tier 3 the frontal armor (and only that) would decent, but still, if you look at the schematics, the UFP has two view ports and a machine gun port, all of whom could be weakspots – so basicly about half of the UFP would be a huge weakspot, with crew deaths almost guaranteed if hit (again, huge viewports), not to speak of the tumor on the turret. This same armor would be utterly worthless at tier 4, literaly anything could penetrate it even at extreme angles, unsloped, full of massive weakspots. With bad gun, and mediocre mobility. And before I forget, the turret too, has two frontal weakspot like things on the front armor, besides the cupola. IMO you should somehow find a way to separate the two tanks, Turán I should get some smaller armaments, like a variety of 30-40mm guns, and Turán II should be (unhistoricaly) buffed for tier 4, with a lot of HP, derp guns, and sideskirts to upgrade its armor a bit, also, some beefy engine so it won’t be a sitting duck.
Why not just give unhistorical top armament and an also unhistorical more powerful engine to the tier 4 Turán? The result would be the same as your suggestion, but without the problematic tier 3/4 tank separation.
Well, I can only hope that happens. But knowing WG’s attitude to “evull fascist tonkz” they will likely implement Hungarian tanks as the cannon fodder they were historicaly. Another solution would be if the Turáns would recieve limited MM, but I do not think that will happen.
Well, it would be hard to implement these Turáns as “good” or “outstanding” tanks, because they weren’t in the real life. They were at best “mediocre” or “average”. But these are rather subjective terms IMO.
ME WANTS PLEASE!
good!i did love to see more tanks in the game
Would very much like to see Turan’s, Toldi’s, and Zrinyi’s in game