Source: FTA VK community
Hello everyone,
the Mäuschen, tier 9 replacement for VK4502 Ausf.B, was nerfed on the supertest as such (changes to 12,8cm gun are unknown yet):
- 150mm gun DPM nerfed from 2346,4 to 2133,1
- reload nerfed from 19,178 to 21,096
- ROF nerfed from 3,129 to 2,844
- aimtime nerfed from 3,07 to 3,26
- stabilization nerf (accuracy when moving turret, turning, and moving reduced by cca 10-20 percent)
- turret traverse nerfed from 18,8 to 14,6
- hull traverse nerfed from 20 to 16
The stats look thus like this:
Tier: 9
Hitpoints: 2000
Engine: 1500 hp
Weight: 170 tons
Power-to-weight: 8,82 hp/t
Maximum speed: 20/15 km/h
Hull traverse: 16 deg/s
Terrain resistance: 1,726/1,822/2,877
Turret traverse: 14,6 deg/s
Viewrange: 370
Radio range: 740,4
Hull armor: 200/180/?
Turret armor: 250/200/?
Elite gun: 150mm L/31 (?)
Damage: 750
Penetration: 225
ROF: 2,844
DPM: 2133,1
Reload: 21,096
Accuracy: 0,46
Aimtime: 3,26s
Depression: -7/+25
Is HEAT pen 334 like on E 100?
Cause if it is… I want that gun on Maus!
yes, same as Borsig’s and E-100′s guns
borsing doesnt use same gun as e100
They are talking about the HEAT-penetration, which is 334mm on both guns. AP-penetration is different, that’s right.
I would think twice If I was you. I HATE that shitty HEAT ammo. Even in CW, I shoot AP with E-100, because HEAT is too unreliable.
Depends on opponents really. An E100 loves the HEAT ammo, so does E75 and current VKB (assuming turret front is your target for whatever reason). Generally I avoid using HEAT against anything with reasonable slope.
It is quite effective against extremely sloped armor though.
AP autobounces at 70°, HEAT only autobounces at 85°. There are many surfaces that are just strong enough to prevent overmatch and which otherwise rely on angles instead of actual thickness. HEAT is nicely effective there.
E.g. the otherwise autobounce side of a sidescraping E50 can be easily penetrated with HEAT.
Only in the dreams land. At 84 degrees 80mm armor have 650 mm effectiveness.
Even at 75 degrees any armor over 80mm will resist that E100 HEAT shell.
Until you are firing with it at long distances, because you know heat will hit tank from above and much of its slope will be negated
>Even in CW, I shoot AP with E-100
I’m betting you are in some irrelevant clan.
And yet that amount of armour will still be a balance problem thanks to how terrible the guns on a lot of tier 8 mediums and some tier 8 heavies are. Yet the tank will now be insufferable to play thanks to how it handles, how nice.
Imagine buffing the worst mediums on tier 8 to have a gun that could penetrate the side of this somewhat reliably at non-90 degree angles but that would just cause more penetration inflation and make the E75 and ST-I less ridiculous against certain mediums.
Plus the IS-8 would suck even more than it does already now.
Stop this “my t7-8 Tank cant pen” complaining, a lower tier Medium is not supposed to fight this tank anyway
Edit: you edited your post. Better now
It is. Tier 8 mediums are going to see this in average matchmaking consistently in almost 66% of their games and they needs to be able to penetrate it’s sides or weakspots reliably otherwise a tank is unbalanced. Tier 8 mediums can penetrate any other tier 9 tank in the game, why does this need to be an exception?
The mobility and handling nerfs are making this Mauschen annoying to play and it’s only caused by how OP it is against low penetration tanks of tier 8.
I agree, all tier 8 mediums can pen all tier 9 and 10 heavys on sides and rear except maus and now lately mauschen, but at tier 9. If they would ass this to tier 10 we all know what to expect, but to add this at tier 9 where it will meet tier 7 and 8 in 60-70% of all cases, it is a serious matter.
Sure you can sue gold, but that is kinda stuopid because it neglects the role of armor from the first beginning. I really wish they would add another maus proto or anything. Arnt there other designs?
Tier 8 meds are gonna see a lot of T10 heavies. What the fuck is your point Nadeah ?
You are saying that tanks are placed in matches with enemy tanks they aren’t even supposed to fight?
You can’t be serious, can you?
/facepalm
If it wasn’t so +/-1 MM would be a thing.
yeah, exactly. If its gonna be on top of the foodchain, many T7s wont be able to pen it (depends on the back armor values though) yet its gonna be pain in the ass to drive. I dont see the logic.
Defending cap! ( mauchen, every game, hiding behind hardcover )
Tier 8 mediums can’t cap anymore.
Tier 8 mediums can’t flank through the spawn anymore.
Mauchen will be completely useless to the team unless only tier 8 mediums and worse are left.
1 month later, nobody plays it because it drives like shit.
It’s an anvil, pure and simple.
+1
LoL
Tier 8 mediums are not bad on their tier and they were good up un till this point. The problem is that mauschen has tier 10 armor on tier 9 which breaks balance for everybody. It has the second best allround armor in the game and it is NOT at tier 9. The solution is not to buff pen because that would increase powercreep in the regular tiers. The solution is to in this case nerf the armor unhistoricaly here because of the sake of balance. Balance is more important than historical accuracy, or move the vk100.1 on tier 9 instead.
Aye. mediums need at least a range of 15 degrees either way from 90 on side-armour for penetration for this to be akin to being balanced. and that’s only 30 degrees of penetration angle, that;s still very much driving beside the bloody tank to penetrate it but it’s somewhat akin to the IS-3′s side armour a tier lower when facing the black prince. ( which is more like 45 degrees, but alas )
No “high tier” tank has so much side armor and rear armor in relation to the tiers they meet (penetration) other than the mauschen. Mauschen has more or less the same effective side and rear armor = a fucking joke on tier 9. Even with 5 degrees of normalization I will say it will be hard to pen for most 175-200mm pen mediums.
Only Mäuschen vs. 3 Tier 8 Mediums left? GG…
Tier 7 can’t damage it at all, if they are not useing HE (85mm HE is pretty useless against that armor) or flank it in case of the Panther (Yeah…good joke!)
If your team has no arty and your top tiers are down, you will most likely have to cap, if this thing is not basecamping and two hitting all of your tier 8 tanks…
actual VKB is as armored as this maus, just has smaller cupola and better dpm and mobility.
They’re nerfing the tier IX by making it bigger, slower and less powerful, what do you want more ?
You MUST be joking.
VKB has 100mm side hull armor and 150mm side turret armor. That’s well within the limits of tier 7 meds to deal with.
This monstrosity has 180mm and 200mm respectively. You can’t possibly think these values to be equal.
People are low IQ, they dont know what implications this mauchen will have becuse they play tanks with 250-258mm AP ammo and/or gold loaded mediums. It is us who play clean i.e. only standard ammo that sees tha balancing issues. You dont have to be smart to realise that this shit little maus will cause huge issues at tier 9.
because vkb side and rear is very easy to pen, even for tier 6-7 tanks,
mauschen ? no, never.
Are you serious?
VK B has non existing side armor for it’s tier. Everyone can penetrate it, even if he has no 90° angle to the side armor.
THIS thing hat 180mm side armor, so you have to be in a very good position to penetrate it with a tier 8 medium. (yes, thinking about T-44, Pershing and T-34-2). Not to mention the tier 7 mediums (who can easily pen the VK Bs side).
Load APCR, reverse and do laps around him, spam your gold into his ass. Boo hoo.
Why even load gold ammo towards a tank that needs armor, fail fucking logic. All we ask is having some weakspots that tier 8 meds with 175-185mm can pen. Having good armor doesnt mean beeing invincible towards standard pen, specialy not if the enemy flanks and shoot you in rear and sides. A tier 8 med should not have to use gold ammo to pen a tier 9 heavy in sides and rear and they dont need it facing any tier 9 heavy as it is today.
People will load premium ammo either way, so it doesn’t really matter. Oh shit, it’s a mauschen, and I’m in a Pershing, whatever shall I do?! I will do laps around him and spam my APCR because fuck weakspots.
Why? Tier 8 meds can’t reliably pen the Maus, and they face it plenty. They can’t reliably pen the E-100, and yet they face it plenty. They cannot reliably pen the ST-I except maybe in the tiny lower plate and rear, and yet they face it plenty. They cannot reliably pen the KV-4, and yet they face it plenty.
If the team have lost all tier 9 tanks (and all of them are capable to deal with mauschen) then obviously the team has fucked up and does not deserve to win. Simple as.
Hard, but not impossible. You’ll just load sprem anyways.
Who cares about 1- tier mediums?? Compare with E50,T-54 etc ffs
Nerf its only strength, gg, you really are an idiot.
Well tier 8 tanks already can fight maus and they have the exact same problem.
And this problem will happen only when ONLY tier 8 mediusm remain against a mauschen that will be able to enforce a draw.
Will not be a balance problem.. will be an annoyance problem.
What is your problem? ever tried to pen a kv1 with a tier 3 japanese? it can’t pen the ass. Several other t3 cant pen the kv1 !
At these gun stats I have to say WG is full of shit. The 15cm now can only be used with gold.
This discussion is useless if not making it a general discussion about OP Russian magical armor !
It’s the kind of tank that would be a bully to lower-tier vehicles but would be vulnerable to same and higher-tier ones.
Or to put it another way, think of it as a tier 9 Black Prince.
“- hull traverse nerfed from 20 to 16″
now we get turret in random battles too
- turret traverse nerfed from 18,8 to 14,6
- hull traverse nerfed from 20 to 16
I think the VK was slow at it has 20 on hull and 18 on turret..
Maus have 15 hull and 16 turret..
That hurts..
combine with AWEFUL Terrain resistance: 1,726/1,822/2,877 compare to its bothers
This tank is just dumb, better just keep the VK b rather then this maus fake with a 150 mm
This mauschen is too historically correct and that is an issue because this should have been at tier 10, not tier 9. You cant have an arcade game with +2MM and have historical tank armors. That is why there are issues with some times overarmored tanks and paper tanks, no decent balanced anymore. Most historical armor has worked on their tiers even with the 2MM, but this mauschen does not work that is why WG will nerf it more and more yet the armor is the single biggest issue not gun stats.
There was never a “Mäuschen” ! WG “found” one fucking concept worldwide? ONE! Now considering Germans kept track of every dead Jewish shoe, they only have one concept of Hitlers most beloved baby the Maus or his little brother to be more correct?
Bullshit!!!
And when WG actually claims it is “historical”, why not introduce the “Adlerturm” on the E100 ? That thing had room for a long 15cm, which would reduce the need of Gold on it.
But than the would E100 would be better than the IS7 and fuck, Russians are the worst Motherfuckers and nothing is bigger, stronger or better than Russian technic.
Because E100 Adlerturm is fake. Mäuschen on the other hand is considered historical not only by WG, but also by SS, which at this point I trust.
How is it fake if it’s more “real” than VKB?
When you realise that for WoT players, if it reloads too quick for his opinion then its cheat, if it kills him then it’s op, it wouldnt come at any surprise that if it cant be pen it’s fake.
Player logic stronker than WG’s.
Chupambrico – becuase VK B was planned as fast tank with rear mounted turret and low armor (soo VB K with superb armor is not even like they had in plans …). Mauschen was to be something like … Mauschen :D
That is difference between VK B and Mauschen.
Exactly, so heavily armored VKB is fake, and Mauschen is “planned” :D
Mauschen is historical nobody argues with that, but nerfing the gun and mobilty and not the armor is utter fail. WG dont nerf armor dure but they they will have a shit tank that is invincible to most tier 7 heavys and tier 8 meds and that will break balance, yet beeing UP againt other tier 9 and 10 tanks.
They should add another for tier 9 another lower armored maus proto and add the mauschen to tier 9 instead as a 3rd line german heavy.
Well its not logical then:
Add armored Maus proto as another line and a low-armored proto as a tier IX when the following tank is an armored Maus ?
Like saying add LeoPTA as tier IX before E-50M, or AMX-30 proto before Bat Chat, and let Leo and AMx-30 with another tanks that has nothing in comon.
Nah, maus proto goes with maus.
And about armor, actual VKB is as armored as this maus, just has smaller cupola and better dpm and mobility.
They’re nerfing the tier IX by making it bigger, slower and less powerful, what do you want more ?
VK 100.01 is tier 8 material, as its armor is comparable to the KV-4.
It has 120mm upper plate sloped and 100mm sides, in that way it could be more mobile and justify a 15cm gun with 750 alpha on a tier 9 heavy tank plattform. That is a tank that is real balanced.
No, because then it’s simply another one trick pony. Another stupid gimmick tank that has lackluster armor and a gimmick gun.
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WG are retarded. You can go in reverse with any medium or fucking heavy and circle this thing. Oh well, will be fun doing the circle of death in my E75.
actual VKB is as armored as this maus, just has smaller cupola and better dpm and mobility.
They’re nerfing the tier IX by making it bigger, slower and less powerful, what do you want more ?
Copy pasted to the wrong place I guess
Stop the “Historical accuracy”. Please, you’re not WT ffs
RIP T8 Mediums… How do Say, T-44 (Even firing gold) kill this thing? So All they need meto do is to Spam More Gold at it. Fine WG.
You can run laps around it in reverse, quit your whining.
If you have 175-185mm pen there is no need flanking this mauschen because you cant even pen it. And no I dont wanna use gold because thet neglects armor on a tank that needs armor. It just dont need it that much at tier 9 though.
But it makes the VK look like a racecar, and the front is effectively worse. You know you can spot him for arty, and get free 2000 spotting damage from that? Or td’s? Or anything with like 190+ pen and goes faster than a T95?
This thing is going to have a high mm weight for sure, and that means that he will encounter plenty of APCR spamming Waffle E-100′s, HEAT spamming T-54′s, M53/M55′s, and Conqueror GC’s. This thing will not have much fun in t10 games, and as a result it can only be a bully, or not exist at all.
Equip 122 mm. Yep, you can do it on T-44 or T-34-2.
Shoot at it’s tracks from the front – behind tracks there is sloped 40 mm “underside” armor – you can overmatch it regardless of angle (kinda the same as with TOG and 25 mm armor behind tracks).
If you don’t want to use 122 mm – no problem. Just find yourself slightly below Maus/Mauschen and do the same. It works for every other German tank, even current VK B. 40 mm at 70 degrees – if not autobounce you need only 110 + 40 mm for tracks…
Totally doable you just need to get close.
And what if Maus is below? HE spam his turret top, run away, wait for him to go up, shoot into its tracks… well you know.
Oh, and I forgot – in tank inspector screen, Mauschen rear looked like ~120 mm so it may be like KV-4 for tier 6 mediums – penetrable only from the rear.
these people just makes me burn my brain -.-
Germans made Maus serie SO IT WOULD HAVE POWERFULL ARMOUR
you cant nerf the damn armour so tier 7s or tier 8s can penetrate thats bullshit they will be able to penetrate back side of Mauschen anyway soviets didnt complain to hitler or to god for having to fight against tiger II THEY FUCKING FOUND A WAY TO FIGHT AGAINST IT
you can just sit somewhere cry about how poerfull that bully is YOU BETTER FIND A FUCKING WAY TO BEAT IT
world doesnt work in your way
Well it’s a game, so it makes sense to heve it in a way it makes sense for the game to be played, so balanced
I agree, all tanks are just relevant in WOT in relation to what other tanks they meet, thats why many tanks have “historical” modules and some times plain nerfed (SP pen for example).
and this tank is balanced back armour will have less than 180 which mediums can pen it with normal AP anyone can circle this tank and get under his gun
you can defeat a Maus with a tier 8 medium mauschen is tier 9 so worse so its easier to do flank it so
AND medium tanks ARE NOT supposed to fight heavies frontally
T-34s didnt try to fight tiger I or tiger II frontally powerfull tactic is always flank germans didnt fucking sit in front of french lines they rushed they flanked and they won
History is full of same stuff flank and win if you are going to say this is a game light tanks is supposed to one shot tier 10 heavy tanks and do 5 bilion splash damage i m going to say you are a crybaby
looool, with that turret/hull traverse its now gonna be completely useless. Best way to play it will be to find a wall close to cap circle, put your ass up to it, prefferably arty safe, then wait until the team fails and then play as a stationary bunker shooting 5 times before dying, farming 2500 dmg. In case the team wins – 0 dmg done. Rinse and repeat.
Hull traverse – still better than Maus (16 vs 15), turret trasverse – was better than Maus, now it’s a bit lower (was 18.8, now 14.6 vs 16.7)
Dont forget that hull traverse is indirectly fucked by the inferior engine HP and terrain resistance stats. They better give it super hover mode terrain resistance stats otherwise 16 will feel like 10.
Meanwhile people want larger maps
NExt week WG announces new special personal mission to get a Type 59.
SPOT 10 enemy tanks with a maushen and remain undetected until the end of the match!
Ok then, let’s compare failmaus… I mean mauschen to T30.
T30 has :
- MUCH BETTER GUN – in every possible way : pen, acc, aiming, reload, depresion
- MUCH BETTER MOBILITY – in every possible way : accel, top speed, hull traverse, turret traverse, pivot turning… did I miss something ?
- SIGNIFICANTLY smaller profile
- better turret armor
- can actually hide behind a bush (or a house, that is)
Mauschen has :
- 350 hp more – this is why the rest of the tank sucks
- strong frontal hull armor – because the side armor doesn’t bounce T8 heavy guns – only if it’s properly angled, something even the lame KT can do
- a nice tumor on it’s turret – even if it’s 200mm thick
- every opposite thing of the T30
Which one would you choose ? The answer is a no-brainer for me : T30. And believe me, that’s not saying much.
I just realized, this tank is gonna be much slower than KV-2.
It’s going to be slower than its big brother.
It’ll be slower than the TOG thanks to terrible terrain resistance and power to weight ratio. It’ll be the slowest turning tank in the game…
But but but…my T43 won’t be able to autopen it! It deserves to be nerfed further.
Oh god dont switch the VKB for this POS. Just dont. We dont need more slow-ass tanks in the game that can barely turn around or accelerate. This will be the totally one of the worst tanks in high tiers. The armor doesnt save it at all. Just leave the VKB as it is
Also, 21 sec reload…I dont even