WZ-111 Historical Info

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Hello everyone,

as you probably well know, info on Chinese tanks is very rare and hard to come by. That doesn’t apply only for regular players, but also for Wargaming. With that being said, US server player lujunlin001 dug up some info on US server and presented it in a form of 2nd Chinese heavy branch proposal. He also contacted me and asked me to post it here and naturally, I accepted. Let’s have a look at what he found together (I will redact the post a bit to make more sense).

Now, one more technical thing. Those of you, who play World of Tanks for a longer time, might remember the time when Chinese branch was introduced. It was delayed in fact and the reason for the delay was the change of Chinese tier 10 heavy tank. Originally, Chinese tier 10 was supposed to be “WZ-111 5A”, but it was removed and replaced by the “113″ for various reasons – if I recall correctly, the main reason was the fact that it was basically a copy of tier 8 and 9 Chinese tanks with a bigger gun. Lujunlin001 proposes to bring this tank back and adds more historical info to its background. Here is what he wrote.

WZ-111 5A

Many of you may curious about the information of WZ-111 and as many player said ,the tier 10 Chinese heavy 113 is under powered. So how about replace the tank with the “WZ-111 5A”? Is it a historical plan or just made up by WG? Let’s compare the WZ-111 in WOT and the historical WZ-111 project and we’ll get the answer.

“WZ-111 1-4” in World of Tanks

Weight: 45t
Main Armament: 130mm 59-130T – modified Type 59 130mm field gun made lighter and with shorter barrel
Ammo capacity: 40 rounds
Engine: 12150L series
Speed: 50km/h
Hp/t ratio: 13.33hp/t

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Summary of the historical WZ-111 project

Weight: 46t
Main Armament: 122mm Y174
Secondary Armament: 12.7mm AA gun & 7.62 coaxial machine gun
Ammo capacity: 32 122mm shells
500 12.7mm shells
2500 7.62mm shells
Engine: an engine based on V-54 design (750hp)
Speed: 50km/h
Hp/t ratio: 16.33hp/t (or 12KW/t)
Ground pressure: 75.1 Kpa
Length (Gun forward): 10.625 m
Width: 3.3m
Height: 2.497m

wz111

Development history

After Type-59 entered mass production in 1958, the development of light tank and heavy tank became another important mission of Chinese national defense industry. The Central Military Committee thought in order the defeat enemy’s heavy tanks:

“We not only need large numbers of light tanks, but also we need to produce some heavy tanks to defeat enemy armoured forces” (我军除了应装备大量的轻型和中型坦克以外，也应配备一定数量的重型坦克，用以对付敌人的坦克兵团或执行其他突击任务)

“Heavy tank plays an important role in tank warfare, the development of heavy tanks should start as soon as possible” (重型坦克是当时装甲装备体系中的重要配套装备，为完善我军装甲装备结构，重型坦克应当尽早着手研制。)

On October 19th,1960，the order to develop the WZ-111 heavy tank was given by the Committee for Science, Technology, and Industry for National Defense (国防科工委). The plan was revised by the Committee for Technology of Tanks (装甲兵技术部) on December 24th,1960. After that, the development of WZ-111 has begun. In March 1963, the plan was revised again by the Committee for Science, Technology, and Industry for National Defense (国防科工委). On June 10th 1964, final plans were made by University of Tank Technology(装甲兵工程学院). In 1965, one prototype (without turret) was created. Later in same year, the prototype of the gun and turret were made, but weren’t tested on the vehicle.

After the prototypes were made, the testing of the vehicle was started immediately. The test mainly focused on the construction of the chassis and suspension in order to uncover issues of the design that weren’t anticipated by the designing engineers.

After the test, the development was going to the next stage, but the research of main battle tank has already begun as well. Committee of Science, Technology, and Industry for National Defense thought that the development of new anti-tank weapon (smooth bore guns, APFSDS shells) made heavy tanks no longer important on modern battlefield. The development of WZ-111 was discontinued, but it became an important experience for Chinese designers and some elements of the design were used on other tanks later.

Armament

The main gun on WZ-111 is the 122mm gun Y174. It is based on a field gun (Type 60?), but it is hard to find any detailed information about this gun. But according to the 《ＷＺ１１１重型坦克设计技术任务书》 document, the fire power of the gun should be the same as the Soviet M62 tank gun.

In addition, the gun has advanced hydraulic gun stabilizer, an autoloader (链式输弹机) (SS: from the google translation, I think it’s more like a hydraulic rammer, eg. not a real casette autoloader), an active illumination night vision observation device with electric rangefinder and an aiming system, that allows to hit the target at 1 kilometer accurately.

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Mobility

Despite the fact the WZ-111 is a heavy tank, the mobility of the tank is still very good.

The engine of the tank is a Chinese locally developed supercharged engine based on the Soviet V-54. It produces 750 hp, making it the best tank engine in China in early 1960s. The hp/t ratio of the tank is higher than that of Type 59 and Type 69, even just slightly lower than the one of Type 88 MBT. Later, the engine became the basis of WZ-122 and 68G experimental tank’s 650hp engine.

In order to allow the tank to move on bad roads, the suspension of the tank is wide in order to reduce the ground pressure. As a result, the ground pressure of WZ-111 is very low, only 75.1 Kpa, lower than Type 59’s 79.6Kpa and Type 69’s 80.2Kpa, nearly same as the ground pressure light tanks usually have. As for the size, the WZ-111 isn’t very big, it can easily move in difficult terrain just like a medium tank.

WZ-111 is also the first produced Chinese tank using hydraulic vehicle control system. The Hydraulic vehicle control system and Air-cooling/waste gas emission system（not sure how to translate the “废气引射冷却装置”）

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Protection

I did n’t translate this part because you already know how’s the armor design of the tank. The thickness of the frontal lower plate is 130mm, but not well angled and it’s interesting that WZ-111 also has NBC protection and a landmine detector (but it is not very effective according to the author of the Chinese text).

Conclusion

It’s evident that there are differences between the WZ-111 1-4 in WOT and the historical WZ-111 project. The historical WZ-111 had a 122mm instead of the 130mm tank gun. It had better engine and was slightlyheavier. It had an autoloader and better optics as well. WZ-111 in WOT might be the tested prototype of WZ-111 produced in 1960s and the proposed further development plan which was designed with a 130mm gun.

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The early prototype characteristics were as such:

WZ-111 testbed (WZ-111重型坦克试验车)

Weight: about 44t
Engine: 12150L (520hp) – the 750hp engine still had many technical problems when the prototype were built, so it only has a 12150L engine
Speed: 35km/h
Ground pressure: 71.9kpa
Armament: the Y174 122mm and turret wasn’t finished when the vehicle was built (later the turret and gun were made and tested but unfortunately, there is no test result nor photos preserved) and since the 122mm Y174’s development progress was slow, a 130mm gun was also planned. Or mabe the 122mm Y174 wasn’t as good as PLA expected?

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World of Tanks

At this point, the author of the text proposes the following:

- split the Chinese heavy branch at tier 8
- introduce new WZ-111 5A as tier 10 after the WZ-111 1-4
- introduce 112 (Mod.1962) as a new tier 9 tank and 113 as a tier 10 of the secondary branch

Something like this:

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Tier 9 proposed “112 Model 1962″ (the author also mentions Model 1963, not sure if a typo or intended) seems to be the improved version of the 112 heavy tank (currently present as a premium tank) with Type 59 (WZ-120)’s gun, using the 12150L engines or the V-54-SC.

An alternative to this tier 9 vehicle could by the “111/112 hybrid”, a paper design proposal by one of the abovementioned committees and “Northern University of China” (中北大学), basically a 112 turret with a 111 hull – no prototypes were made.

Sources:

《坦克装甲车辆》2006年第2期 ——-中国北方车辆研究所
《欲与天公试比高—-中国研制的WZ-111重型坦克》——– 孔凡清 将言 王丽琴
《兵器》杂志——–《兵器》杂志编辑部

http://wenku.baidu.com/link?url=FPmmAsUPCaxIqNSEvHXXFhrDobptf2nKwi6K4jYxcqQE4sqxGNQpS3LQSSgYBDDKmXT0i2GyyEeh1TOpwOyH6cGy-NlYRvD6Ph1fyrfFrdS

http://zhan.renren.com/tankers?gid=3602888498023108750&checked=true

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_5903850_1.html

http://www.mdc.idv.tw/mdc/army/wz111.htm

http://bbs.tiexue.net/post2_5138863_1.html

56 thoughts on “WZ-111 Historical Info”

    • Me too, the line proposed in this text is very plausible, both WZ-111 and 113 play differently with 111 being identical to Soviet heavies and 112/113 being more a medium-heavy mix which kinda makes sense to be researched from medium tanks.

  2. 链式输弹机 literally means “belt-like rammer”, so I think it is autoloader not just hydraulic rammer.

      • It’s not exactly a loading mechanism. It’s more like a chain driven load-assist, meant to give the round ready for the loader like the Type 74 has from what I understand from that.

      • Well at the very least its not 4 which for 113 is very uncomfortable. On the medium tanks I can somehow deal with 4 – 2 degree gun depression as I do not have to fight face to face, but in 113 it really is uncomfortable on many maps. Not having such problems on IS7(-6), IS4(-6), IS3(-5), WZ-111 1-4 (-5) so I guess that little bit of depression would help quite a bit.

  4. Based on my estimations, there’s absolutely no way the Type 59 could fit into standard WZ-111 turret. The breech is massive, and it recoils to over three times its length.

    As for the Y174, yeah, that’s a strange thing that I haven’t figured out yet. The best I can guess is that it’s the Type 60/D-74 field gun (which is available on the tank already).

  5. So its firepower would be the same as 121 or 113, just different hull and turret?

    • I am a good tank. Dont worry.
      However, i dont like idea that make me even more medium-like.
      I would be then nearly copy of 121.

        • 113 does not burn from frontal hits, it never happene to me, only when they shot my back. On the other hand it has its ammo rack easly damaged, when I play it, I get ammo rack damaged every 3rd, 4th game.

        • Nope.avi.
          I have more depression, much better armor, better acceleration, much more health, better looking
          121 haves just better rof (difference is 1 sec), thats basically all what 121 gets over 113, also just tiny better accuracy and aiming time (barely notable difference), and better pen.
          It haves slightly better speed (useless advantage, with crappy engine it rarley reaches more than its 50 kph)
          Stranger than my clone, but better.

      • the 121 doesnt burn as the 113 do in front shots, i think thats a feature more than a weakness.

  8. It was more of an IS-7 with less side armor and much better terrain resistance. Dat 150mm plate was good indeed.

  11. 113 is shit because…
    ….
    ….
    ….121 does everything better.

    IF 113 had bigger RoF, then maybe – MAYBE – it will be good tank.

    • Woras, I thought better of you, I play 113 and I think its superior to 121, 113 does everything as good as 121 and has more HP and armor.

      Oh, it rotates much slower, indeed , one thing 121 does better.

      • Not even ”much”.
        121 haves lower acceleration aswell
        121 cant played as heavy, I can played as both medium and heavy
        Me ,looks better, like emperor of empire of Type 59, while 121 looks like uglier little sister of me…with ugly face.
        121 haves no armor on hull, I can bounce Obj 268 5 time in row.
        I have crap depression, 121 haves no depression.
        I have easy-ish grind, 121 haves grind with 3 meds with shitty and next to useless stock guns, or having go through light tanks (which arent too bad, though)

  12. Well, as far as I know, there were 5 different WZ-111 variants:

    1: 44 tons, 12150L, D-25, IS-3 turret, 40 km/h
    2: 44.5 tons, 12150L, D-25, WZ-111 turret, 40 km/h
    3: 45 tons, 12150LS, 62-100T, WZ-111 turret, 42 km/h
    4: 45 tons, 12150LT, 59-130T, WZ-111 turret, 45 km/h
    5: 46 tons, V-54SC (supercharged), 60-122T (Y174), WZ-111 turret, 50 km/h

    So in-game we have (well, according to this data) 1-4 variants at T9. WZ-111 5A was mix of 4 (gun), 5 (everything else) and a little bit of additional armour (additional 30 mm plates on UFP/LFP IIRC, as far as I know – this was not planned IRL).

  13. I thought the WZ111 was removed from tier 10 because it was too good, you basically had an IS-7 with a choice of high alpha or good accuracy and ROF.

    A lot has changed in WoT since then though.

    • the WZ-111 5A was extremely OP, its upper plate was pretty much as good as the IS-7′s upper plate (WZ had 150mm thick upper plates IIRC with the same angle as the tier 9 version), however the 5A accelerated very well and had a top speed of 50, it could keep up with mediums with no problems at all. the 130mm gun was also generally better than the IS-7′s gun.

  14. WZ111那个60-122T就是D74的坦克炮版本
    T=坦克炮 60=60式122加农炮（D74的中国版本）

    130是59式加农炮坦克炮版本，59式130炮是M46的仿制版本。

    至于，60-122TG据说来源于特殊渠道的M62

    解释下WOT里中国坦克炮型号名

    J=加农炮 T=坦克炮 G=改进 F=反坦克炮 55-57FG=55式57毫米反坦克炮改装的坦克炮

    最后， 这个美国作者对WZ111和中国HT的想法是很合理的

    http://e.hiphotos.bdimg.com/album/s%3D550%3Bq%3D90%3Bc%3Dxiangce%2C100%2C100/sign=ba5bf28f2a381f309a198dac993a3d35/060828381f30e9249ced5c864e086e061d95f738.jpg?referer=567af974d5ca7bcb246cf31f31d6&x=.jpg

      • 又不是第一次了写中文，，我知道你是中国人，但是不确定是不是中国籍…

      • Allow me to translate what the gentlemen above have written:

        SMSBC on March 12, 2014 at 3:03 pm said:

        The 60-122 gun on the WZ111 is the same as the D74 field gun
        T=Tank Cannon, 60=type 60 122mm Cannon (Chinese version of the D74)

        The 130 is the tank version of the Type 59 Cannon, and the Type 59 130mm Cannon is a copy of the 130 mm towed field gun M-46 M1954

        As for the 60-122TG it is said to have came from the M62 through special means

        I will here explain the serial number of the Chinese Tank Cannons in WOT

        J=Cannon, T=Tank Cannon, G=Modified, F=Anti-Tank Cannon, 55-57FG=A tank cannon modified from the Type 55 57mm anti-tank cannon

        Lastly, this American author has very logical thoughts towards WZ111 and Chinese Heavy Tanks

        (Kirito: I believe by American Author he is referring to SS and not knowing his real nationality)

        This link that he posted shows a proposed full Chinese tech tree:
        http://e.hiphotos.bdimg.com/album/s%3D550%3Bq%3D90%3Bc%3Dxiangce%2C100%2C100/sign=ba5bf28f2a381f309a198dac993a3d35/060828381f30e9249ced5c864e086e061d95f738.jpg?referer=567af974d5ca7bcb246cf31f31d6&x=.jpg

        Lujunlin001
        on March 12, 2014 at 3:14 pm said:
        Please, I am Chinese okay, and also why would you write Chinese here?

        SMSBC
        on March 12, 2014 at 3:20 pm said:
        It’s not the first time Chinese is written, I know you are Chinese, but I am not sure if you have Chinese citizenship…

        • Thank for your translation.Some of your translation isn’s correct

          至于，60-122TG据说来源于特殊渠道的M62
          some sources state that 60-122TG is M-62 Chinese got by some “special” way (Technology offered by spy or other nation of Warsaw Pact )

          SMSBC thought I am a American.Not SS.

          And the 拜托 don’t have certain meaning in the sentence

  15. according to my very bad mandrin skills and with the help of google translate (despite being a chinese),
    废气=waste gas
    引射=ejector
    冷却装置=cooling device

    so it’s waste gas ejecting cooling device?

  17. Wait, the LFP was supposed to have 130mm of armor?

    Because I’m pretty sure that, currently in game, it has a LOT less than that.

  18. I am enjoying the Chinese line so far so this should be fun for everyone. From what I understand the chinese tanks are tons of fun and seeing this I hope they add more chinese tanks.

  21. Of course, the WZ-111 is already in the game…as a Chinese server exclusive premium (complete with 300 pen HEAT shells)