Today was a bit technical, so I hope I got everything right
- SerB is not afraid of WoWp stealing players from WoT, he thinks the migration will be normal
- SerB describing the difference between US and Soviet penetration methodology: “The difference is in the amount of shell fragments, that make it past the armor. In the common American and German system it is based on “primary penetration” (20 percent of fragments make it behind the armor), while the Soviet data are based on the “guaranteed penetration” (80 percent). We compared the data of German and American 75mm guns tested in USSR and with German 50mm, 88mm and British 57mm. There is a 1,17 times difference on average”
- SerB states that this table is not accurate, he considers the Soviet gun tests table accurate
- according to the (Soviet) data above, the Ferdinand 88mm gun performed worse than the Soviet D-10T and D-52. SerB and others were wondering why that happened, it was possible the Soviets used very early ammunition model (SS: Flak), in the end, they decided not to nerf the Ferdinand gun based on this
- WG actually started using the German penetration methodology, but switched to the Soviet one during closed WoT beta
- T-62 won’t appear in WoT, SerB categorically denies the appearance of smoothbore guns (SerB states that the current “armor plays no role” whine would be mild in comparison, as smoothbore guns typically have 400mm+ penetration)
- SerB states that historically the E-75 had neither 120mm sides, nor a 128mm gun, it had 80mm side armor. It was not an improvement of the King Tiger, but its simplification for production. Currently it is not historical in game and if a suitable candidate for its replacement is found, it will be reconsidered (SS: that’s funny, I thought it was actually 120mm)
- the final variant of Panther II lower frontal plate was allegedly planned to be 120mm thick, SerB will have a look at it too (SS: probably a typo, the poster most likely means upper frontal plate)
- theoretically it would be possible to nerf the D-25T penetration to 165 by introducing early type shells, but it won’t be done… for now
- SerB agrees with the King Tiger 105mm aim time nerf
- SerB states that the 8.8 changes in German heavy tanks mobility still made them roughly equal in value to what they were before
- SerB sees no reason for rebalancing T-62A/Object 140 in order to make them differ more from one another
- it’s possible the collision model of the Object 140 will change (making it bigger)
- historically, the D-5T and S-53 guns were considered sufficient until the King Tiger appeared. But the fact that the 85BM gun appeared shows that the ballistic properties of 52-K were considered inferior to the German 88mm
- IS-7 will not be made more mobile
- animated tail gunner will be implemented into WoWp
I did not expect to run across a link to Tarrif.net in relation to WoT…. what a blast from the past. But considering the originial purpose of the site, I should have been expecting it. I guess I was just ignorant to it back then…
*nostalgia rush*
Are you a wwiionline player?
Nope, Ex-NavyField.
Heh, the NF gimp… remember you well mate. Those were the days…
- SerB is not afraid of WoWp stealing players from WoT, he thinks the migration will be normal
He knows it’s bad.
Your average tanks player wont play aircraft game ever (too fundamentally different). They somewhat made it possible by simplifying the game but in the end they only did hurt their own game.
To be honest I find WoWp to be a enjoyable game, despite looking at War Thunder as a superior flying simulator from a gameplay perspective. It’s hard to compare those two and it’s also hard to explain why I like that Wagaming shooter. WoWp, despite being clunky and irritating, got this “WoTesque” feel that makes you want to throw yourself into another battle. Definitely lacks some shine here and there, but the weight of aircraft appears to be a plausible, economic system and the technology trees are pleasantly familiar feature and it does not overwhelm me as much, as late tier grind in War Thunder.
That’s the catch I think. On the other side it’s unrealistic to hope for the same success WoT had.
Aircraft sims are very much a niche. Even WoWS will not enjoy the same success. On the other hand, how many of you have played with plastic tanks as a child?
I detest WT because it fractures its playerbase through the 3 battle types: arcade, realistic, historical. The flight model in the first two are *terrible*, however, the last one is superb. It’s very accurate, which makes it hard to play. Thus, very few people play it. WT’s arcade flight model is sheer fantasy with absolutely zero basis in reality. WoWP is much better in this regard. I feel WG has the potential to polish WoWP into a much, much better experience than WT, so, I would bet on WoWP succeeding.
Except me.
Bad @ tanks
gud @ planes
3/1 K/D in my Japanese aircraft
got a 9 kill game once… it was a 1v3. Raped all three of them, they were all trying to dogfight my A6M5
Unstoppable
That might be what will limit wowp pops in the end, the fact that good pilots who regularly get 6+ kills per match make it painful for the rest to play…
Bullshit, I have loads of fun playing War Thunder, and I find myself a decent tanker in WoT…
- SerB is not afraid of WoWp stealing players from WoT, he thinks the migration will be normal
I was like WAAAAAAAAAT
WoWp stealing players from WoT?
IMPOSSIBRU!
Tbh it cant be that bad, as its still a game from the same company.
Money they spend on WoWP is like Money they spend on WoT …
Its not like in early beta that WG needs the vast player mass at every hour of the day, as there still are more than enough to run it smoothly. (queue times etc.)
TBH i play wowp just to make that 700 games and 240 “gold” per day so..
if they will merge credits then – it will be like moneymaker for wot
in wowp i make on tier 6 premium plane (airacobra) about 80k profit in 3-4min battle (2-3 kills)
in wot in lowe/t34 (tier 8 ) about 60k profit in 7-10 min
so in wowp you play worse tier (less money for repairs etc) and quicker battles – make more money than in wot
in about 10 battles yesterday i made 300k money (i dont play only airacobra but also some high tier like super corsair)
Afaik only gold and maybe free xp are shared.
Credits are not.
That would suck, I have 10 MILLION credits stashed for WoWP.
when the beta stage ends they will do a wipe you know… like in wot beta…
I’m sorry, what did SerB said? WoWp can even do something?
Get over it – WoWp is dead already.
When tokens runs out – no more players will play that.
True, i only play WoWp for the 2 free premium months and to make 700 total battles. After this R.I.P… gonna play it if only the give free gold…
Go into battle – quit it – repeat for all planes.
Meanwhile – play WT.
Did that got ban after 300 battles for being AFK…:)
300 battles? Talk about bot system flawlessness :D
Bah, I got banned after 50 games, like 20 of which I “botted” like that.
Whereas I know a guy who quit over 500 games without getting banned.
It’s random I guess…
Yeah, I will defenetly uninstall WoWp. I need the disk space… >.<
SerB misspelled WT wrong…
Double negative?
lets be honest here arcade in WT is worse than WoWp due to pay to win respawn slot and reserve plane systems
there are only 2 reasons to play WT over WoWp
frame rate in WoWp sux (atleast for me)
and historical battles in WT
“lets be honest here arcade in WT is worse than WoWp due to pay to win respawn slot and reserve plane systems”
Really? 5 planes arent enough for you in a 15 minutes battle? -_-
Plus WoWp is even more P2W, a stock plane with 50% crew is almost useless in a high tier battle, at least in WT you can shoot down Fw’s with a biplane.
Pretty sure he knows that the amount of WoT players that migrate to WoWP will be quite minor in comparison to those that migrate to war thunder.
Actually free to play games aren’t afraid of player migration as most of them tend to return to the game or move forth and back. Migration is a bigger problem for subscription games, as once you move out you tend to never return,since returning will mean keeping multiple supscription/wasted time on one…
- theoretically it would be possible to nerf the D-25T penetration to 165 by introducing early type shells, but it won’t be done… for now
that would be good idea then weaker 122mm gun would use that ammo and top IS gun would use current ammo
- SerB states that historically the E-75 had neither 120mm sides, nor a 128mm gun, it had 80mm side armor. It was not an improvement of the King Tiger, but its simplification for production. Currently it is not historical in game and if a suitable – then where the extra weight comes?
- SerB agrees with the King Tiger 105mm aim time nerf – of course its german, while your dear KV-1s must keep a gun which it can bash noobs
then where the extra weight comes?
The tank was supposed to weigh around 75 tons, and the KT was already at about 70 tons. The 105 L 68 and the engine along with some other minor modifications might be the source of the extra weight. In game the extra weight comes from the armour of course.
Ha! There are actually no historical stats on E-50/E-75 armor, at least from Jentz, Doyle or Spielberger.
Basically all one can do is to estimate armor from the planned weight.
It is however true that both tanks have vastly increased firepower than their historical counterparts.
All in all, one should remember the E-series were a project about saving resources and man power more than increasing performance, in a way they were just modified KTs…
Funny, last I saw in terms of heavy tank guns the BDR G1 and the Churchill 1 had better guns in their tier. Also, there was once a time when the Tier V KV’s top gun was the 152mm Howitzer or the 107mm in its KV-2 configuration. They had to split the KV into the current Tier V KV-1 and the Tier VI KV-2 to balance it out.
With regards to the KV-1, it is actually possible to convert KV-2s to KV-1s (they shared the same hull; this was done during the war after they found the KV-2 to be mostly useless in mobile warfare. So technically, the original KV is quite historical.
With regards to the BDR G1 B and Churchill, they would be completely useless at Tier 5 without their top guns.
And the 3001h will have the best tier 5 gun :)
The difference is the fact that the BDR has all around bad armor.
While KV-1S only has bad armor when driven by a player that doesn’t know angling.
-INBF KV-1S-BAD@ARMOR: If your saying that then you don’t actually play the game and you only go off of the listed stats in which case you probably think its impossible to frontally pen an AT 2 with a Tier 3 tank. KV-1S has heavily sloped armor that angles amazingly like all Russian Heavy tanks. You angle its front properly and it will easily bounce larger guns than its own gun especially when at distance or when the gun has bad accuracy and can’t properly hit the weakspots.And no 8.6 did not make all guns able to 100% of the time pen a weakspot at any distance. Germans couldn’t do that pre-8.6 and they still can’t post 8.6(E-50/M not included as that is the god of accuracy)
BDR is slower than other heavies in tier. T1 Heavy, KV-1, Excelsior are all faster than it is.
KV-1S is the fastest heavy in tier(VK36.01H has a higher listed top speed but its an AMX 40 speed. It hits 35km/h max on flat ground)
BDR is a giant target.
KV-1S is smaller than most Tier 6 heavies.
BDR can only one shot Tier 3 tanks(bottom tier it sees)
KV-1S can one shot Tier 4(bottom tier it sees) AND Tier 5 medium/lights that have stock turret
Derp guns aren’t counted in the OP due to one shotness due to the fact that they will not always deal the same amount of damage. KV-1S hits a Hetzer KV-1S one shots Hetzer derp hits Hetzer derp fails to pen the front and only cuts half its health.
BDR’s high pen is no longer high and has major problems against most Tier 7 tanks and a number of Tier 6 tanks.
KV-1S high pen is still high against Tier 7 tanks and is only given some problems at Tier 8.
Churchill Don’t even need to compare this tank. Damage isn’t near one shot level, Slow, giant target, 0 gun depression, armor is far worse than listed.
KV 1S armor is weak, not just the hull but the turret as well. And the VK top speed is not thing like the AMX 40 mine having constant 38-39km/h on flat ground
the D-25T is the top IS gun. the D-2-5T is the KV-1S and the gun before the best gun on the IS. You’d be nerfing the top gun for the IS not keeping the way it is now.
>in the end, they decided not to nerf the Ferdinand gun based on this
Here goes… the German bias!
didnt u know Ferdinant is super secret russian tanks they gave to the germans… true story ;)
Ironically, Ferdinand has two fantasy guns and none of the planned ones despite one of them being in game.
The huge mortar and what else?
88 L/100.
Historical German AFVs were also distinctly short on high-velocity 10,5cm guns, but I guess those were at least *considered* before they beelined straight to the 12,8cm big brother.
No 10.5 cannon was ever considered for the Ferdinand.
Ironically, 10.5 L/47 and L/52 were considered for VK 3001 (P).
So it wasn’t considered, but it could fit in the mount, right( the 12.8 included) ?
@ Torx: looking at the schematics it’s unlikely it would fit.
Even the 88 L/100 might have suffered from reduced depression.
animated tail gunner will be implemented into WoWp
and what about the pilot? xD
- SerB states that historically the E-75 had neither 120mm sides, nor a 128mm gun, it had 80mm side armor. It was not an improvement of the King Tiger, but its simplification for production. Currently it is not historical in game and if a suitable candidate for its replacement is found, it will be reconsidered
That means the E-75 will be removed from the game and replaced with some POS tank (just like in the case of T-50-2, wich means the E-75 removal will be happen around 2015 :)
It won’t be removed like the T-50-2. It would probably be moved to a different tier.
Remove the side armor and gun and you have E50. Really don’t know what’s wrong with them and all tank that are perfectly fine. They somehow really needs to fuck up all german tech tree by giving them pos tanks while taking out the current ones or just nerfing them to shit like they did to PzIV
PzIV nerfed ? Preposterous! It just had its play style changed, that’s all. It’s a very good tank but squishy indeed. You need to be open minded and explore different ways to play it. It’s my favorite tank in entire WoT and it become such after the rework from sniper to melee derp bugger.
Okay, now referring to E50-E75 argument. I wouldn’t mind E-75 with 80 mm sides but there would be needed a great buff in soft stats and perhaps the same buff that tiger enjoyed (RoF buff etc.) other than that I don’t think there would be other tank more fitting in this place just before E-100. It’s just too consistent and feels too right to change.
Pz.IV is fine, but I’m still bitter about the complete change of playstyle >_<
Yeah but before the Schmallturm and L/70 were removed, it was a unique tank. Now it plays second-banana to the Sherman, who can do everything the Panzer IV can, but with better soft stats and sloped armor on the front of the hull.
If they make E-75 like it was when it was first tested: both ufp and lfp equally thick (160mm) i wouldnt mind the 80mm sides. XD
that was just simply OP frontally…that’s why it got changed fast….and i know pzIV not bad tank but it’s simply cause it have that derp gun that makes it somewhat useful. They tried to make the tank as much as historical but ironically the only gun that matters is the one that is most unhistorical…they are now trying to do same thing….they should just quit that historical accuracy bullshit completely and buff/nerf tanks according to their ingame behaviour…
Or they switch one tier down most of the german tree, putting E-100 “Projekt B” as tier X.
It should be a hull option for the E50. The E75 and E50 were envisioned to be produced on the same production line, use the same components, hull and turret. The only difference between them was armour.
Funny story from IL2, from another developer using Soviet data. When IL2:FB first introduced the P47 its roll rate was based on Soviet data, from the aircraft used by the Soviet Navy. Its roll rate was horrible so players not only complained, they provided Oleg at 1C with US and British data from their evaluations.
Turns out the Soviet data was completely inaccurate when compared to the British and US assessments. It was suspected that the Soviet data was doctored to make the P47 appear inferior, something which wasn’t uncommon.
The cool thing was that Oleg at 1C used the new data provided to 1C. He didn’t just stop with that, if you provided him with official test data from the country of origin, he’d take that over the usually suspect Soviet data. I wish Wargaming would get over themselves and behave in a similar fashion – Soviet test data can be extremely suspect, which can be proven over and over.
This table has already been proven to be inaccurate (non-Soviet guns are estimates, rather than test results – there’s long thread on it on official forum and Overlord’s blog).
Do you have the links to these articles?
But these are holy Soviet war heroes, they are right, period.
- it’s possible the collision model of the Object 140 will change (making it bigger)
Hahahaha as if obj140 is not a shit version of t-62a already xD let’s make it even more fucked up. Already it cannot reliably hulldown due to it’s 30mm roof and two big tumors. And they called it a unique tank in their ASAP video about 8.8 patch.
UNIQUE TANK LOL!
It’s a collision model change, if it is to keep it in line with the actual 3D model then it’s a good thing, even if it does make it bigger. Consistency is important.
Object 140 isn’t big difference from T-62F from first glance, but it is different enough to play it other way than T-62A.
It is better suitable for hills, for example.
Is it me or SerB is the WORST possible thing that could happen in WoT?
What would have it been to have a non-biased and reasonable dev? (that still trolled the retarded questions)
He’s the most vocal, which is a good thing, how much say he has in changes, or how many actually come from him and isn’t an agreed design choice by the dev team isn’t known. He is the one who usually announces or at least hints at them though, so he gets the flak.
The only chance he gets at fighting back is trolling the stupids. In a way he doesn’t represent a likeable fellow, but in his job, no one can be.
Well, if it wasnt for SerB WoT would probably be released as a game about orcs and elves (as it was planned).
Actually the orc-elf bullshit was blocked out by Slava Makarov, someone who’s even higher in the hierarchy….
mhh must be u… cause I think Serb is one of the best things that happened to WoT ;) A Dev not afraid to tell idiots asking for idiotic things that they are idiots.
I’m pretty certain Serb chooses almost only “retarded” questions so he can appear as smart guy with his “brilliant” answers.
If you’d read the forum you’d know that SerB answers almost everything (only thing that he doesnt is totally retarded, insults or not related to development questions).
SS just translates the juicy ones you know.
He is smart guy. After all he is nuclear physicist and average WoT player is stupid schoolboy at best.
If he’s a nuclear physicist, then why is he a video game developer?
Then again, I’m not sure if having him work at Chernobyl would have been a good idea. XD
You think he’d get more money from being a physicist rather than milking all of them $-for-gold cows?
My mother used to be a state bureaucrat, yet some years ago retired from a rather succesful academic career.
Newsflash: what people end up doing with their lives often has little to do with their original education and plans.
Its you.
Why don’t they replace the E-75 with another tank and make it a hull option for the King Tiger, I’d love to see that.
…because the differences are kind of way too major for that? Completely different suspension systems for one.
> – the final variant of Panther II lower frontal plate was allegedly planned to be 120mm thick, SerB will have a look at it too
WAT?
Panther II LFP is 60 mm.
Probably a typo, the author meant upper frontal plate.
SS regarding the 1.17 difference of penetration stand for
- 100 in german test 117mm in Soviet test
- or 100mm in German 83 in soviet?
100mm in German standard~85 in Soviet one, check your math.
Pingback: 02.09.2013 | WoTRomania
GUYS!! please help me when the fuck they will announce the winners for that td anniversary manoevers?
This week presumably.
ASAP(tm)
“When it’s done, it’s done”
If you want proper announcements, make a gaming company! :D:D
:)) thx guys for the answers ;)
Wait, where did the “Current Missions” article go?
In to the depths of the internet. Don’t worry, you can check official WoT site, it’s not as convenient as here but the information is still there bro.
For some strange reason it got totally fucked up (it somehow “mixed” with the translation for some reason, they both shared the same comments, it got very confusing). I’ll repost it tomorrow.
SerB states that historically the E-75 had neither 120mm sides, nor a 128mm gun, it had 80mm side armor. It was not an improvement of the King Tiger, but its simplification for production. Currently it is not historical in game and if a suitable candidate for its replacement is found, it will be reconsidered (SS: that’s funny, I thought it was actually 120mm)
- Strangely enough, there is no mention of ANY armor thickness in the conceptual drawings. The most we have are the hull weights, which is 40.8 tons for E-50 and 60 tons for E-75. Basically, E-75 had at least 10 tons more hull armor than Tiger II (which was less than 50 tons), meaning that armor had to go somewhere.
The thing is… what you say are just estimates based on mass increase, there are other things in a tank that could weight more, the sole armor layout change with keeping the same thickness may increase/decrease mass but other interior components might be heavier as well. Steel quality has alot to do with mass. Suspension was different, simple doesn’t mean less or lighter(but I admit I don’t know if it really was heavier or not)
Another thing is that E-75 was intended as a cheaper and simplified replacement. Now how much sense would it make to give both E-100 and E-75 same initial side thickness if the Germans themselves considered King Tiger to do the job well (I’m not talking about field commanders but the ones behind the desk)
Finally, WG is getting their stuff from archives and you don’t know WHAT materials they have while we have none other than Panzer tracts and similar literature. So we’re still speculating rather than arguing if Serb is right or not.
Even if the E-75 didnt have thicker armour then the KT, it would still be a more armoured vehicle, due to the better slopes.
Obviously the 10 tons went into the radio
The weight increase due to heavier interior components is highly unlikely. On the contrary the E-series was projected with simplicity in mind, so we can assume some weight savings here. Also the suspension was simpler and lighter, it’s known for sure.
Some of the speculations I once read went into a estimated 180 mm of frontal armor in E-75.
Anyway, SerB’s opinion isn’t really more justified that those specultions mentioned above…
KT weighted 68 tons. Tiger weighted 56 tons. If the E-75 was planned to weight 60 tons it would have less armor than the KT.
The 60 tons only refers the hull weight. No turret et cetea.
Why does WoWp get animated gunners but WoT open top vehicles don’t?
They don’t mean the actual crew will be animated. At the moment in WoWP your tail gun always points backwards and shoots bullets at the enemy without turning towards them. Animated means that the tailgun will turn towards an enemy to shoot them.
Age restrictions and ratings, WG wants these games to be kids-friendly (personaly they’d have to disable chat to make this game kids-friendly but that’s the law)
Notice that when your plane is shot down and you fall, there is no crew, the plane falls empty.
This doesn’t look like they’re killed but it literally looks like they disappear.
In Wot.. if you have crew and then a tank is destroyed in a blast as usual and the guys disappear, it may look for some kids like they were killed by explosion.
It’ a subliminal message and children are very sensitive to it.
So you are telling us that then no kids would be allowed to play it? :(
Eh, I meant: How terrible :) Kids should not be allowed to play this game anyway, I know one guy who lets his ~7yr. old kid; And you know what? That kid does not understand why he got ban; when his teammates always shoot him; after he shoots his own teammates; after he turns blue; after he kills half of his team. I call him irresponsible parent, like those who let their kids annoy everyone in restaurants et cetera. But the point is, people like him exist. The another guy who lets his kid play this game less ofter kills teammates but still has around 40% win ratio. Because he likes more driving around than contributing to victory and even when he fights he shoots like a mad man at everything that moves, forget weakspots. But anyway his father bought him Lowe. I have no idea why anybody would buy such an expensive virtual item and even encourage his such a young kid to spend his early childhood behind computer rather outside. Perhaps I am just becoming one of those “old grumpy people” even when I am still in my twenties. Anyway, kids should not be allowed to play such a games, especially when “so-called historical(at least as much as possible) simulator” has to be made so… unrealistic just because of it. And money-wise, there wouldnt be much of loss for them as a company, since their fathers would surely spend those money in their own account if they are “rich” enough to buy their kids next to useless, overpriced toys.
And there it is again. That fucking table.
In WWII there were three ways that the US measured penetration.
The Navy criterion which demands that at least half the weight of the projectile shall pass through the plate.
The Army criterion which requires only that light shall show through the hole in the plate when the shot is removed.
The Protective criterion which requires that some fragment shall perforate a weak screen placed a short distance behind the target plate.
- T-62 won’t appear in WoT, SerB categorically denies the appearance of smoothbore guns (SerB states that the current “armor plays no role” whine would be mild in comparison, as smoothbore guns typically have 400mm+ penetration)
What utter b/s. They said the same thing about MBT’s and the game is starting to fill with them. If this game has any hope of being more “historical while remaining entertaining” the map sizes need to be a hell of a lot bigger, like 10-20 times bigger. Then, and only then will they be able to offer up historical view ranges (like the Tiger’s 4km view range), and gun effective ranges. With engagements happening farther away from one another, penetration-over-distance, will become a huge factor.
Oh… and artillery would actually have a harder time being an orbital death ray since the time-on-target would be so much longer having to travel much larger distances to the target (only the hardest camper would get hit 15-20 seconds after a shell left the barrel of the arty).
In response to: “SerB states that historically the E-75 had neither 120mm sides, nor a 128mm gun, it had 80mm side armor. It was not an improvement of the King Tiger, but its simplification for production. Currently it is not historical in game and if a suitable candidate for its replacement is found, it will be reconsidered”
By the way I have found the same sea-scrools from Atlantis. It says all the Russian tanks had Imperial shileds and ray-guns while German tanks had folded paper armor and 0.9cal hanguns as main armament. No german heavy tank which becomes popular and favourite of many players should stay nerf-less till a point where players rather sell them than playing the crap which it became.
It is pathetic and ridiculous how Wargaming nerfs every Germany heavy till a point where it is completely useless – e.g.: E100 and its gun.
I don’t get this. Why wargaming saying that they will make the game balanced and in the same time they nerfing the hell out of German heavy tanks. I say there should be only Allied and Russian tanks in this game and all Geman unist should be controlled by NPCs. They would not be useless, be able to penetrate nothing just go back and forward and they would have paper as armor. Feels like that is the goal.
For the love of GOD. WHat is wrong with you people?!? Are you not tired of repeating this BS?
If you cant play german tanks, then fine. Want OP? Look at the French and US lines, not the Soviet line. Not that there is any real bias in the game, just a bias towards the RU community, not their in-game tanks.
The problem is we can, we want, but if the nerf above takes place, then we will simply sell the tank and stop playing.
My problem is why Wargaming creates a tank.. claims it to be based and designed on the b.pritns then half year later somehow they change their mind and say “oh wait, actually they are not correct historically!” – now my question is: When did WG lie – on the first place when they created E75 and said it is historically accurate, or now, as they see it is a good tank and loved by many players and they woudl like to nerf it because of the same reason ?!
Now this makes more sense. However I dont believe WG will do this.
As they said E75 is an improvement for Tiger II, then for why the bloody hell woud it have the same armor and gun and – let’s not forget – engine? Where is the improvement in that?
Well, to be fair, EVEN if it had the same armour thickness, it would be more sloped. Also, it was gonna use the 105mm gun IRL.
Migth I ask, in the basis of historical accuracy how can we compare a prototype from 2nd WW with a colf war medium tank on the same tier at the russian tree or with centurion?… it would under perform on every lvl. We are talking about years of difference in development in IRL history. Historically accurate tanks on german side would end at the production of Tiger II, from that point we can’t talk about accuracy in tank development only about theories. Game would not be competitive on German side if they woudl stick to history – that is why some adjustment , dare to say buff was necessary on the blueprints of E75 and E100.
Imo that is why they should leave the E75 as it is now – “just” engine-nerfed.
aaaand gun nerf on E75 ofc. will mean same nerf on VK4502p as well cos it has the same gun. So VK will lose the gun as well. Hitting 2 different heavies in the same time with 1 nerf …will be a new record for WG. That will be the time when i will stop playing WoT.
I never said that I am for the nerf. In the E-75′s defense, it is one hell of a machine now :D
The E-series were primarily meant to be an *industrial* improvement over the active-service models, designed for faster and cheaper mass-production, greater interchangeability of parts and so on. And presumably finally tossing the shitty final drive design of the Panther while they were at it.
So funny…
“- SerB states that the 8.8 changes in German heavy tanks mobility still made them roughly equal in value to what they were before”
Yeah…. rougly equal in terms of SLIGHTLY WORSE THAN BEFORE.
But hey, we are talking about german tanks so no one at WG cares, right?
I did not feel any real difference in terms of mobility in the test server. If there are any, then the acceleration is slightly worse, but now they have a higher top speed, meaning they are actually faster once they hit top speed. This is the case with the heavy tanks at least, from the Tiger on.
The mediums are a different story though.
They had some gun buffs too. So roughly equal mobility and better guns is IMO a buff.
The Tiger got a lot of love.
About the E-75….as far as I am concerned, it uses a very similar hull like the E-50, to standardize production. The only real difference was the suspension, the E-75 having a more complex suspension to support the heavier weight, a better armored hull, to which extent better we do not know, and a much bigger turret which could fit a big 105mm gun.
The number reffered to the hull weight alone I think, the turret wasnt counted (thats the case with the VK vehicles, but not sure if this is the same with the E series vehicles)
A 128mm gun was never mentioned in the E-75. There was a mention of a 105mm L/100 though. I heard the 105mm L/100 was once in the E-75 in its test server where the E-tanks appeared first, but the 105mm L/100 was removed because it was ridiculously long (as the 88mm L/100 wasnt already long enough..)
This gun choice is still the most historical one, even though it was only on paper. I wonder if that would ever work.
Given that gun stats existed before, does anyone have the E-75 105mm L/100 stats (before it was removed)? Just for fun..
Then there is the E-50M gun another 105mm gun that fires APCR as standard. It is a 105mm gun, but that gun was made up by WG (like the E-50M, having no other choice though)
So we do not exactly know how the hull armor layout is. And do not get me started on the E-75 TD. They already have an article for that.
It was done to ease production. I am not sure about the dates though, the E-tanks were first mentioned in 1942 and were scrapped again, only that the E-projects were revived in 1945? (Do not confuse it with the E-100, that project did start in 1942-43, regardless of the other tanks)
I still want to see a proper mention of 105 L/100 in a reputable source.
AFAIK the only author that mentions E-50/E-75 weapons is Hahn, and he writes 105mm L/68 for E-75 while 88mm L/71 for E-50.
All in all, E-50/75 were in a very early stage of development and all in all they were slightly improved KTs.
would be so fair… 105mm on e75… btw all the other tier 9 has 120mm?
all the other tier 9 heavy*
I’m not advocating for it, just mentioning historical facts.
105 L100? Wut? That thing would look massively hillarious. Like the Panther’s comedy gun.
Can’t wait War Thunder tank…then I will stop play this game with retarded comunist serb, fucking stalin lover….
Is the testserver down for anyone else atm?
It’s down for everybody, it’s off.
Serb has absolutly no idea when it comes to armor penetration.
Late and early 122mm shell penetrates just as much armor at 100m. The later, APBC shell was just better at distance because it had a Ballistic Cap. (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D0%A1-3)
Here the “old” AP shell penetrates for example only 1mm less than the APBC shell at 100m.
However, according to “WW2 ballistics armor and gunnery” the 122mm shells penetrated at actual testing results more (!) armor than listed in the great table serb seemingly expects to be trustable.
There is no such thing like early 122mm AP shell which penetrates less armor than the late one, this whole table is just not accurate because it presents calculated data.
I found out based on further investigations, that all the values on the table are calculated, based on the formula from Jacob de Marre. Its known, that this was a common way for the soviets to calculate penetration. With an excel tool this can be shown pretty quickly. This counts for the soviet, but also for the US and german guns in this table.
Might write an article about that great table ..
“However, according to “WW2 ballistics armor and gunnery” the 122mm shells penetrated at actual testing results more (!) armor than listed in the great table serb seemingly expects to be trustable.”
You clearly didnt read the SerB’s answer did you? Soviet method is difference, hence the results.
What do you even mean?
Of course this calculation is based on the soviet method, just like the test itself.
and then think, why german numbers is bigger than soviet numbers.
using your logic, that should be other way around – soviet numbers should be bigger than german numbers.
but it isnt.
you have no idea. we dont need your biased article.
oh man, do you even know what the demarre formula is?
The point of the 122mm shell penetration being higher in actual test is a hint for the whole table being calculated data.
If you actually look at your article, it clearly shows “D” model has much better penetration power than either old version.
I don’t really know how this FAQ thing work exactly, but i feel like asking serb if he’s going to make a russian IS-2 for historical battles.
I hope that all tards will stay on World of Tards, when WT publish their ground forces!
I’m sure I’m not alone when I say that I really look forward to the day when you and people like you can finally move over to WT.
Of course the “migration” of player between WoT and WoWP will be nominal, WoWP is just flat out shit. It’s already been expressed so many places. Usually “forums and blogs” are places of hyperbole, but, in this case it’s actually warranted. WoWP sucks ass, I can’t believe how bad they fucked it up. I was hoping they’d make flying as fun as tanking, but they failed. Funny thing is, War Thunder plays as fun as I expected WoWP to play. And it’s visuals and audio are vastly superior to WoWP.
Here’s to hoping WT Tanks is in the same vein, and pisses on WoT, forcing WG to get off their lazy asses.
Do they have data for actual armor quality in any Soviet tests? I haven’t seen any. If the tests are against captured German tank armor doesn’t that make them against flawed armor then?
“WW2 ballistics armor and gunnery” are calculated values based on US tests normalized to 237 BHN armor.
I’m a bit confused by the supposed German penetration criteria (20% blablabla…) mentioned. AFAIK German WW2 criteria was for the whole round to remain INTACT und functioning.
yea, SerB is compeletly wrong here. The german criteria is five sucessfull penetrations in a row, which needs to be multiplied with 1.14 in order to archive 50% sucess. In other words, or in percent, this is a 98% sucess criteria according to ww2 ballistics armor and gunnery.
80% sucess (soviet criteria) would mean simplied for example that about 4 of the 5 shots need to penetrate,
Just as mentioned above, Serb has no idea when it comes to armor penetration.
lol.
and then think, why german numbers is bigger than soviet numbers.
using your logic, that should be other way around – soviet numbers should be bigger than german numbers.
but it isnt.
you have no idea.
The criteria was just the HE filler remained intact after penetration.
Here you go, a pen calculator. Dunno it is soviet made but I think it is fair.
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/pencalc/
dont touch e-75..dont TOUCH!
- SerB is not afraid of WoWp stealing players from WoT, he thinks the migration will be normal
I’m not sure if he’s…..
Serb not worried about WoWp stealing WoW players. xD What a stand up comedian he’s becoming. It’s like Hitler in his last days plotting and planning stuff with the resources he never had.
Serb should be worried about War Thunder. That game is getting momentum and have yet to show it’s tanks. When that happens, I predict a mass migration of more serious players. Thank god, WT doesn’t seem to appeal yet the usual kids that roam on WOT. And this P2W bullshit about WT is being spread from people who never ever fired the game up. There’s no P2W elements there. And the premium content is far cheaper than in WoT. For example, you can grab a real great credit and xp maker like the BTD-1 for a little over 6 bucks. And you can have 5 plane slots for arcade just by spending ingame credits. Beyond that you need gold. But, again, how many slots do you can get for credits in WOT? Nobody says P2W on that game even tho premium rounds are still a P2W feature.
The grate table shows that Soviets had problems (bias) testing foreign guns. All are too low. For example according to fair Yugo tests 57mm APCR, 85mm APBC and 75mm Model 40 penetrate about the same at 1000m. But in GT 57mm APCR and 85mm APBC penetrate about 33% better at 1000m than 75mm.