Hello everyone,
Storm confirmed before that along with the RU251 and American high tier LT’s will come together in one patch, but what I missed earlier was the tidbit of info that Soviet LT8 will come in the same patch as well.
(sorry for the watermark, I was lazy to look for the quote myself)
Either way, what does it mean actually: remember how Wargaming said they really want historical tanks? Well… I think I can honestly say after looking through the books I have on Soviet tanks (Russian books), through various Russian history forums and the Russian community itself:
There is absolutely no suitable candidate for Soviet tier 8 light tank.
Anything on that tier will be either completely unhistorically nerfed (as in “nothing left of the original tank but its general shape”) or an outright Wargaming fake á la WT E-100. If we let go of the “usual” limits for tanks (suitable gun/engine/armor), we get to two things – the Object 975 and the tank Yuri Pasholok found in 2012 or so.
Object 975 is a Soviet light tank proposal from the early 60′s with an autoloading gun of an unknown type. Its main fault is that it has MASSIVE armor (turret front: 430-450mm) for a light tank and in the past, SerB (or was it Storm?) said it’s “too modern” and “too strong” to appear in World of Tanks. This is how it looks anyway, but as I said, I don’t think this will be it.
What I do think it will be it is this… the LTTB, as Yuri Pasholok calls it. Originally, he posted some pictures of documents and hull schematics, but the pictures are no longer available in that post (the post itself is very old – August 2012) – in case you know how to dig them out of the post, let me know (because I don’t).
From the info in the post, we can build a picture ourselves however. Basically, it was felt that the T-80 light tank was insufficient and this was a proposal to build something bigger, better and nastier. This proposal if I understand it correctly (hard to say without the pictures) comes from February 1944 (developed since late 1943) from Kirov Leningrad Plant No.185 – they proposed a hull in a shape that was as armored as the T-44 (90mm frontal armor, 62 degrees) , it had a bigger turret ring than the T-34/85 though and its suspension resembled the T-100 heavy tank. The turret was not designed (so any turret design would be a fantasy), but frontal turret was supposed to be 90-200mm thick (!), the gun was 85mm S-53 and it was powered by a 400hp V8 engine. In the end the project was scrapped.
This is the plan Yuri Pasholok posted
So, basically, what we have here is a somewhat worse “light” version of the T-44, called “LTTB” (legkij tank tyazhelnogo bronirovanya – “light tank with heavy armor”) – a 400hp engine, massive frontal armor (yet completely insufficient for battletier 10-11-12), cca 22 tons (18 hp/t), a tier 6 or so 85mm gun. What I think they will do is they will invent a WG-made turret, uparmor and the (barely historical as it is) hull, give it a bigger unhistorical gun (D-10T?), a bigger (unhistorical) engine (600-700hp) and in the end, what we will get is a heavily armored scout with a mediocre gun and meh mobility, very loosely based on the original concept. That’s going to be fun. Of course, this is just a speculation, Wargaming might surprise us with something totally made-up from scratch new.
Oh, and did I mention there will be no Soviet LT7? That means the MT-25 branch will apparently still end with MT-25 and whatever will the LT8 be starting from god knows where (the LTTB historically it doesn’t fit anywhere, neither does the Object).
I sense this is going to end “well”…
Very interesting. SS, will you go for the these light tank lines?
another question, when I remove camouflage on a tank, can I put it on another one or is it lost forever?
Camo is tank dependent. You cannot change it to other tanks, even if it’s the same nation.
I presume hes talking about camo net which is tank interchangeable
Hmm or he is talking about camouflage paint xD he didn’t state it :P
Maybe it will be the “light” T54 version? That would fit quite nicely, wouldn´t it?
No, that’s a premium.
True, but let’s not forget the (however abyssmal) possibility that they might have changed their decission (as they did with tier 10 TDs and Mediums)… ;)
BTW. shouldn’t the Object 416 historically be classified light tank/tank destroyer hybrid, instead of a medium tank? I remember it being described as such in Chieftain’s Hatch.
It might fit nicelly as a tier 8 light (although that would make a hole in the Object 430/rear-turret line)
Eh, I think filling up a line is way more important for WG than making designations historical. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have made the T30 a tank destroyer.
Well it hard to apply this to a game logic too. Definition of medium/heavy/destroyers varied from country to country and even changed during the war – as tanks changed their category,
“So, basically, what we have here is a somewhat worse “light” version of the T-44″
“h, and did I mention there will be no Soviet LT7? That means the MT-25 branch will apparently still end with MT-25 and whatever will the LT8 be starting from god knows where”
then maybe its going out from the T-44? maybe
There is no historical connection between the two tanks. Might as well, or from T-43.
Seeing as how the kv-13 is on its own branch and these candidates have strangely heavy armor for their design, I bet it could be what fills in that spot of the tree.
That is a shame, no having a continuation to the MT-25 seems to be a little odd.
Ah, so we will get some more fantasy tanks :) But don’t worry, since it’s Soviet, it shouldn’t be a problem… :P
What about the premium light T-54? Will that one be a tier 8 medium tank or a light tank considering it has “light T-54″ in the name :P
The official name will be something like T-54-3 I think, so no, that’s going to be a premium.
Ah, ok, tnx.
So PT-76 also out from discussion too?
Yes, anything amphibious. No BMP either.
Too bad, there was a PT-85 variant that could have fit at tier VIII…
And i guess BMD is too modern.
Shame really.
BMD has nothing special… no armor, not a great mobility and guns …. well, i understand no missile but i find interesting introduce top tier autoguns… 30mm, pen around 150 and no limits in attack range… think in burst of 2-3 shells with correct disperion and you can hit enemy around…. 400-500m, not a sniper but not like in low tier battles useless in open maps.
Why nothing amphibious? Could they not still implement relevant tanks without amphibious ability?
The official line is “people then would ask why can’t the tank go through water when it was amphibious in real life”.
Because one thing is amphibious like PT and other be able to move underwater… PT can swing but heavy tanks need be like submarines with snorkels… not hard to explain it… apart this amphibious for scouts could be a great add to game, a bonus for a line that is not specially interesting in top tiers when meds can do their job better.
Wasnt BT-SV amphibious too ?
And engine restrictions in reality. They had to work pretty hard to add the kind of “physics” we have and it is still a patchwork. The same reason tanks don’t flip over ;) .
*cough*BT-SV*cough*
And of course no wheeled vehicles… i really dont understand WG logic… if they have one, PT-76… if they give it elite status like the chinese models with Type62 turret style is a interesting tier 7 tank, remember FailPanther scout… PT is not bigger and can mount a much better gun…. the BMPs are an interesting tier 8 scous to.
They are going to add a magic tank from 0 and made it avaliable as they want… i dont know what expect but i feel a little psss if you need research tier 8 scout from a med tank, even more if you need do it via a tier 8 med tank.
I dont understand why they dont up the lights one tier … T-60/70/80 tier 3/4/5 conect them with MT, use something in the line of PT as tier 7 and in tier 8 give a post war tank… a light light version of T-54 serie or why not a BMP scout or a BMD??? i think that top tier scouts need some diferent and a 30mm autogun with 150 pen and range over 300m is interesting option.
Lets see but to be fair last thing i want now is more soviet tanks… i want see more french abandone tree improved.
So i can f**k meself with 70k exp waiting on mt-25 to open up next tier
Basically. Get some Gold and convert it, that’s your only option.
FFS I also have 60+k XP waiting on my (already scrapped) MT-25. Was really thinking they would make a full branch, instead of this shitcrap of workaround… leading to a fantasy tank xD
Well whatever i’m not really mad about it. Sooner or later (trolol) they will find some T7 light candidate, so my MT-25 XP is going to hibernate for the time beeing ;P
Than again, WTF there was a need for T8 scout, if they cant fill the full branch leading to it? Like find T5 and T7 first, than proceed to T8.
WG logic failed this time 111.
Wellcome to the club… doing pregrinds is a rusian roulette with WG logic… for example i grind xp for future USA heavy tanks from tier 5 to tier 8 and for meds in all Shermans+T20 (i expect they mantein T69/54).
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Bye-bye for my (and possibly our) “WoT is going to get better” hopes…
Isn’t this “LTTB” the so called “Omsk light tank”? If so, Priory_of_Sion posted a thread about it here, with pics: http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/217589-soviet-light-tank-line-to-tier-8/
Yes perfect!
Ah but the turret info is wrong.
Here is the whole article with all pictures: http://alternathistory.org.ua/legkii-v-teorii-tank
Looks like Pasholok posted the same picture of the turret, but I found it i n other sites as alternate proposal for T-34 as well.
If it is basically a T-44 hull, so it will probably either go side branch from T-44, or from one of meds – T-43 or KV-13…
What I find it really odd is just WG’s reluctance on implement the PT series amphib light tanks in a workable form. Like they have lost all progressive and inventive type of thinking and designing in the last year.
Current arguments of the amphibious part but are valid IMO! as it involves new physics. But!
Could a possible solution, workaround, to this be:
- Much decreased terrain resistance in ‘deep’ water! (Not drowning deep type).
- Good deep water, crossing capability. Where normal tank would get the drown timer.
- OR and longer drown timer compared to a normal tanks
I think the amphibious part should not be a reason to just dismiss these types. If I can think of a workarround that does not sound like Star Trek why can’t WG developers do the same?
Or just don’t include the amphibious part and make it a regular tank like the BT-SV (amphibious irl, not amphibious in the game).
Of course, the main appeal about the PT-76 is the gun options it gets, which include the following:
76 mm D-56T – A typical 76 mm rifled gun. With this equipped, the tank would play similarly to the Chaffee, with low alpha but good dpm and adequate penetration.
57 mm AZP S-60 – A 57 mm autocannon used on the PT-76E. While damage output would be mediocre, its high penetration and accuracy could be useful for harassing enemy tanks from a distance, giving it a unique playstyle compared to the WZ-132 and the AMX 13 90.
Another possible gun option is the 85 mm gun of the PT-85, a variant of the tank used by North Korea. Note that this MIGHT be a smoothbore gun, as it can launch ATGMs irl, so this may not be suitable.
Either way, the appeal to the PT-76 would be the varied playstyles you can have with it depending on the gun you choose, which gives it something for everybody.
Maybe either of those super armored LTs will lead from the KV-13? The MT-25 leads to it, so the Object or LTTB (LTP’s big brother/retarded older cousin) could lead from there. KV-13 seems a bit of an oddity (to me, anyhow), considering it doesn’t really lead anywhere, it’s basically a mash up of the IS and KV tanks, and it has a poor gun for its tier (you mentioned the LTTP would, by design, receive that dinky little 85 mm).
Why not just make “light” T-54 a tier 8 light tank instead of premium. That would simplify things.
As premium it would make much more money for WG.
True dat
I’d rather see them make the T-44-85 into a light tank then them make something up again.
Heh.
On the one hand, I don’t really get all the people yelling “historical accuracy”, “made up tanks” and what not. I’d say more than half the tanks we drive already never made it past the drawing board or the prototype stage. Some are just plain fake based on some guy’s uncle’s ideas. So what? In the end, as long as they bring more variety and somehow fit into the game, I don’t think this hurt.
But on the other hand, I’d like to know why WG keeps looking for obscure protos and drawing board tanks, while there are so many real, actually produced tanks, to add to the game. There’s a french tree that could get two or three times bigger than it is now, a British tree that’s pretty much empty too, and about a hundred european tanks that could fill up a multinational tree. Work on those before digging up unknown projects.
The nations you mentioned are not popular and therefore not profitable…French heavies were planned long time ago and they postponed them for 2015+.
Why you ask, well it’s simple – the more popular is a certain line, the more people play it and more people spend free exp on it. Free exp that was previously converted for gold. It’s the same with japanese and chinese trees as well.
I would bet much more players converted exp to get WT auf E100 and FV215b 183 on day 1 of their introduction than on STB-1 or 121.
I wanna see T-50-2 again. :(
I don’t see any reason why the PT-76 can’t be a tier 8 light tank for the Russians. It being an amphibious tank is a cop-out, as the BT-SV is in the game (granted, it’s a gift tank), but without the amphibious capability that it had irl. There should be no trouble implementing the PT-76 in that capacity.
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