Hello everyone,
recently, Storm openly confirmed that the Sturmtiger will not be implemented. From what I heard on Russian server – it’s connected to an incident, where on the supertest, Storm took a Sturmtiger for a spin and out of three shots, he oneshotted IS-7, Maus and E-100. Whether that’s true – well, that’s not confirmed, but it would certainly explain his distaste for such a gamebreaking vehicle.
Regardless, it’s true that a 380mm rocket mortar cannot effectively be balanced in the game, at least using “regular” rules. Sure, you could just give it a small alpha (on 183mm level), but that would be strange and illogical. Plus, it seems that’s already decided, so now the real question is, what to do with the rest of the line?
Well… for starters, it has to be realized that by getting rid of the Sturmtiger, you are most likely getting rid of tier 8 and 9 as well. Early Wargaming thoughts, confirmed by Storm, were along the lines of:
Tier 8 – Sturmpanzer Ferdinand (basically a Ferdinand with 210mm mortar)
Tier 9 – Sturmpanzer Bär
Tier 10 – Sturmtiger
All three have massive guns, starting with the 210mm, that, while a derp, would likely be just as hard to balance on its tier (imagine a 210mm shell landing on your tier 6). The Bär has a 305mm howitzer/mortar (good luck balancing that against tier 7 vehicles), so it’s likely that these candidates took a trip to the “scrapped” folder along with their tier 10 brother.
Lower tiers however are entirely salvageable. Tier 5,6 and 7 would likely be SIG33, Sturmpanzer IV (incorrectly known as Brummbär, that name was apparently not used historically) and Sturmpanzer Panther, which is basically a Panther with a 150mm short howitzer in the turret, it looks like this:
And yes, that is actually a historical project. The 150mm gun itself does not have exactly stellar properties (do not be fooled by the caliber, the gun was not that powerful – the HEAT shell could only penetrate some 150mm of armor) – in fact, the Brummbär was confirmed to be “fine” with it, so we can assume everything from the line up to tier 7 is useable and we are now missing only tier 8,9 and 10.
Replacements
It’s worth noting that considering the difficulty of finding high tier candidates for third German line, it’s much more likely that the vehicles, such as the Brummbär, will be turned into premium tanks. That would however be a shame, as (unlike other, paper projects), these self-propelled guns had their role in the war and really fought.
Thus, what could be done is this:
- scrap the tier 7 as well
- replace tier 7-9 with Waffenträgers (specifically Ardelt, Steyr and Panther)
- make StuG Maus a tier 10
Thus, you would create a “hybrid” line, filled with derp on low tiers and Waffenträgers on high tiers. Sure, you might ask: “Do we really need more Waffenträgers?” – and the answer is likely “no”, but it is the only way (including paper projects) of salvaging the line by putting something that actually can be balanced on high tiers.
Tier 7-8
There were many proposals and poject to put a big gun (88mm, 128mm and even 150mm) on cheap chassis, usually based on or connected to the 38t and 38d platforms, the first being the hull of the – by then obsolete – Panzer 38t, the latter being a wider hull, based on the 38t technology, but modified for German production, since the original 38t chassis – considered to be one of the three chassis to be produced by the end of the war along with Panther and Tiger II – was specifically designed for Czechoslovak production methods that couldn’t be replicated without difficulty in the Reich.
Some of the 88mm Waffenträgers were actually produced, the Ardelt one fought in the final days of war. Another example would be the one by Steyr.
Performance-wise, they would likely be on par with the current RhB Waffenträger, only smaller, more mobile, but with less firepower. Ideal tier 7-8. No armor of course, but a traverseable gun. Could be done. The Steyr vehicle above for example was built on the 38t platform, was equipped with a 180hp engine and weighed around 10 tons. If you are interested in more details, I wrote about them here.
Tier 9
Here, we’d have a Waffenträger Panther, ideally the Skorpion, because it has a cool name and generally is recognizable.
There were several (actually, many) variants of various guns on the Panther chassis – one you already have in the game, the “GW Panther”, which was one of the Waffenträgers. Medium armor, Panther-mobility, but a nice 128mm (or even 150mm) gun would give us the similiar type of gameplay we already have with the Panzer IV Waffenträger. The vehicle would likely be a bit bigger (which means worse camouflage), but yea.
In any case, if you are interested in this vehicle, I wrote a more detailed article in the past.
Tier 10
Well, the only realistic German tier 10 TD candidate left is the Sturmgeschütz Maus.
Please note that the above is only my impression of the design, noone really knows what it looked like. I wrote about it earlier and it was met with mixed results, but basically, it could be anything between an oversized Jagdpanther (heavy armor, mediocre mobility, sniper gun) to a dedicated sniper.
Conclusion
The problem of such a setup would be that it would offer three separate types of gameplay: derp with heavy armor, sniper with light armor (tier 7-9) and something inbetween on tier 10. That is not exactly desirable, but I do believe this is the only way of salvaging the line. Making premiums of the midtier vehicles… well, a lot of people would likely feel “cheated” that Wargaming is selling historical vehicles for profit (the current rule is that premium tanks are to be predominantly paper projects), which is also not good. Any solution (including “not implementing them at all”) has some major drawbacks in any case:
- not implementing Brummbär at all: you have a historically important vehicle missing
- implementing as a premium: “AMAGAD GREEDY WG FUUUUU”
- implementing as a “stub” (only a side branch that enters the main branch at tier 6 for example): that thing is currently very much frowned upon as Wargaming makes money on high tiers, such lines (that are easily accessible) are not very profitable from what the developers said
- implementing a full line: “Frankenstein!”
so in the end, I do believe what I have written above to be an acceptable compromise.
They can’t socket the out of tree Ferdi into the new line at tier 8?
Sturmgeschütz Maus.
If u build it, they will come Serb……….lol.
Or just not bother with more German lines. Add in the Italians, and other European tanks that actually fought. If fact I’d be happy to see a lot of these paper or prototype tanks vanish altogether, to be replaced by vehicles that saw combat en mass. If a line does not go all the way to tier 10, I couldn’t care less. But I’m sure their business model does.
mfw italian tanks worst tanks of ww II
>mfw
you forgot to post a picture newfriend
Great way to show that you are uneducated.
Sign me up. I’ll take em
Even that 210mm Ferdi?
But 152mm KV2 with a turret is perfectly fine against Tier4s?
Sure, good luck standing against a 210mm TD with a higher view range and camo than the KV-2 will ever have … I can already see heavies rolling throught he field and getting insta-killed by the invisible Ferdi from all the way across the map … like it happens with nowadays Borsig , WT auf PZ IV , or WT auf E100 … Not to mention the FV , which even after the “nerf” can be pretty anoying …
The ferdi is not possible to balance as TD, ofc, you can give him rate of fire like 1 or 1.5 per minute, you can give him accuracy of 0.8 , you can make his soft stats to resemble Maus, but it does not solve the ability to oneshoot every single vehicle on VIII.
Ferdi and camo?
View range? It already has a nice 370m and they talking about huge view range nerf on all class – except lights.
All across the map? Soon there will be no maps, where you can shoot over 200-300m, they convert all of them to tunnel maze. (does KV2 one shot T6 heavies all the time? Not really… even T5 meds can survive HE shells).
If they would use the current 21 cm mörser variant on Ferdi – 2000 avg potential dmg – it would cause ~700-800-1000 dmg usually. Like a BL-10 gun – but that is more accurate, shoots more faster, aims faster, and deals damage more reliably than a HE derp.
the conqueror gc has a 210mm and hits over 1k damage with HE ammo…
explosive damage isnt linear, the difference between 152mm and 210mm is way bigger, since the kv2 “only” hits for 300-400 on non pen hits.
Storm took a Sturmtiger for a spin and out of three shots, he oneshotted IS-7, Maus and E-100.
And what happened with his other two shots? :D
They landed somewhere near Mars, due to accuracy.
+1, best response ever XD.
I agree. xD
Yep, that was awesome
Each of them was one-shotted
Oh, hello captain, have you ever heard of sarcasm?
NOT MUH STURMTIGER
I KNO DAT FEEL BRUH, A’R8 ?!
MUH HEAVY FRENCHIES ;__;
With all due respect, why do you guys alwasy want to add this Sturmtiger and band ? Or why should there be even more german tanks , cause after the soviets, as far as I can count the German tree has tons of tanks in it, while others don’t … ( points at the japs, chinese, UK, France ) and there are tons of other tanks which FTR already mentioned … those would actually be something new, and not just another bunch of german metal …. not to mention all the cryfest it would make if tanks like these would appear …
Simple, these tanks were 1) Famous, 2) Historical, and 3) Not a paper project that never existed. Yes, German, and Soviet lines are pretty much saturated at this point, the fact remains that there are still vehicles that existed that have not been implemented yet.
The other lines, due to their lack of armored development during WWII tend to not end up in the spotlight as much as the 3 main lines do, so they become underdeveloped.
well the thing is, in arcade game like wot, in MY OPINION, gameplay should always be put ahead of historicity. Its all good that these were historical vehicles, but do they really add anything new to the gameplay? Do we need them as a PLAYERS? I honestly dont think so, eventhough the pictures look interesting. What this game needs is more balance throughout the tank trees, so the nations with fewer tanks should be added some new steel at first (Japs, Chinese, French, British). Added 8th (!) line for germans while Japan doesnt even have fucking heavies is not a way to go imho.
You have a point about what it adds to the gameplay, but I’ll counter with a few points:
WG is always going on about how “historical” their game is. Sure, we all laugh, but if they had started saying WoT was pure fiction, then I wouldn’t mind so much, but they don’t.
And as far as gameplay, how many TDs do you need that don’t add anything extra to the game? Case in point the Stug III and JPanzer IV. Are they really that different? Enough to implement both of them in the game?
Well WG thinks so, so there they are. Look at the British AT2/7/8/15/whathaveyou. Virtually identical TDs. Why were they added? When you can answer this, then you will know why these TDs discussed above should be added.
so is the t-58, mbt 70 and the object 279, the tanks are unbalanced and breaks the gameplay.
Because the Sturmtiger saw service and combat. So when you mention Sturmtiger, I would say that I know that tank because I’ve had the pleasure of seeing one at the Panzermuseum. But when you say WT E-100, I would ask what is that? Say it’s a paper project and I’ll go, oh ok, now about the Sturmtiger….
What I would like to see is more post-war tanks. I can’t find any howitzer-type German tanks on either side of the curtain though.
What about tierig the Bär to tier 10 and the rest too, balancing the line better.
Then, Sturmtiger could be used in a PvE mode.
Giving them the role to mess up modules of enemy tanks. like the SU-152 or KV-2. I could see that work.
then test server will come? today?
no more papers … need more heavy german steel.”Slow”, heavily armored with brutal guns. Thats the tank for battle not the paper for campers.
The Soviet Union could come SU203!
http://alternathistory.org.ua/su-203-sssr
Because russian techtree does not have enough vehicles with the B-4 gun ;)
There already is a 210mm gun at Tier8……..
but 300mm+ guns are impossible to balance with the current HE mechanism i agree
still Sturmpanzer Ferdinand at Tier10 still an option imo
probably very hard to balance, imagine all the butthurt when someone gets oneshotted in a Tier10 tank (wait that already also exists in the game xD )
Possible – just don’t increase damage and penetration beyond certain level (eg. 2500 dmg) but increase splash to make Sturmtiger area of effect based weapon…
Also, there may be 0 armor zone inside the barrel (38 cm is size of some weakspots, cupolas etc.) with several ammorack modules behind it, so you have chance to quickly kill it when it aims at you, but this area should be accessible only when Sturmtiger aims at you.
Everything may be balanced but sometimes you have to find some unusual way.
i want muh scorpion
SS, what do you mean by production methods? I thought that CZ was metric along with most of Europe and mostly compatible with DIN. What other things could be so different? Can you dig a bit more on this?
This will be only my humble opinion, but I would introduce the Sturmtiger and other “bombers” simply with some horrific stats, so not too many people would play it, or if they would, then they could be easy counter-fightable.
For example, give the Sturmtiger drastically low viewrange mega-slow track traverse, some 1.5-2min reload time for one shell, about 0.8-1 accuracy with low shell flying speed, maybe even limit the range and let it f**ing roll. If someone still would enjoy that, then ok, but vehicle with that shitty stats would never brake gameplay or have epic winrates but it would still be in the game, if someone asks!
so whats the point of having a tank that nobody wants to play? have it in the game “if someone asks” ? as if anybody ever asked these questions. 99 percent of players dont have a clue number one that something like Sturmtiger even existed
and the swarm of tomatoes and idiots would be put off from that tank???
a 380mm gun is a fckng 380mm gun see the succes FV 183 has. It would atrack people just because it’s that big and will be the biggest calliber in game no matter the stats.
In an MMO you cant really make sure that giving horrific stats it will put away people
also there is always the Free XP which means if the whoooole line will be like that they will still end up in tier 10 by Free xping
This kind of thing comes up a lot but we already have a game breaking tank in the game which rarely gets mentioned…
Now people say the FV215 183 is broken as it can one shot tier 9′s and badly damage tier 10′s, these are tanks on, or below it’s tier, but if you want real fear take a KV-2 out for a spin, this is a tank which can one shot tanks of it’s own tier and even more tanks of the tier above. I’ve one shot Jpanthers and Sturer Emils (without ammo racking them) which are tier 7 tanks but people don’t mention this OP doom cannon half as much as the 183. It even reloads much faster than the 183…
because it got nowhere near the penetration to kill those tanks reliably. Not saying the nerfed 183 can reliably pen all tier 10s now, but compared with the HE pen on KV-2 its still much better.
What about the 10.5cm PzFH 18 auf 39H as Tier 4?
Play Wespe then switch to Lorr.39LAM, thank me later.
I’d prob give the sturmtiger an avg dmg of 2600 with a very large splash radius, pen of about 50mm have the accuracy of 0.99 at 100m, reload of 1.30 mins and I agree with small view range say 310m and more or less no camo, only thing going for it would decent armour and high damage gun, only ammo would be HE,
Now doubt tho WG have all different variations of stats and was still deemed impossible to balance.
Well it seems like either the alpha is too high the splash dmg too high or the vehice is too accurate. Give it shit pen, huge splash and very high alpha and beyond worse accuracy. If it is not balanceable with this give it like 4 Shells.
Why did they implement the Death Star or the WT E-100 the both can 1 clip or 1 shot tier X tanks to death or near death? I dont see a problem. Missfire and hit nothing in Stumrtiger and you are defenseless and ofc a favorite arty traget. But WG are just morons that want to ruin our fun.
Or implement it in some kind of fun mode where people shoot each other….
Storm took a Sturmtiger for a spin and out of three shots, he oneshotted IS-7, Maus and E-100.
How terrible.
BTW make the Sturmtiger a very very low range T10 arty with almost 0 HP and a huge aimcircle and reloadtime. Even with the current sigma it will have higher chance to damage tracks than the tank itself. And good luck aiming at targets hauling at 40-50 km/h while they are cca 100 meters away. If you oneshot them then good luck with the reload. If you don’t… then good bye. Easy to balance afterwise.
Problem solved.
I just want the damn Sturmpanzer IV, dammit!
I have got a question: Why do we need complete lines? I and (i think) a lot of other people who like to see more tanks that really fought, wouldnt mind at all. I dont need Tier 1 -10. I am totally ok with having “side branches”. I know a lot of people want progress or “go up a line” but still, missing importent vehicles just because you dont have enough hightier material is in my opinion stupid.
100% agreed.
It’s all about bussiness. The most demanded tanks should be high in the tree, so players who want to play them need to go up there… where, by design, they can’t afford to play all the time (so they need premium).
So lines without high end are pointless. WG wants you to play high tiers, otherwise they would have to change the bussiness model or say goodbye. Its fair.
Sad, but true…
A Ferdinand with a 210mm mortar would be very similar to KV-2@tier 6. They both have reliable armor against low tiers, but totally useless against high-tiers. Despite having a high alpha damage, they often only do partial damage(about 400-500 on the KV-2), and they have terrible accuracy and reload. Their mobility are horrible as well. Hell, KV-2 is even better because it has a turret. What, camo on Ferdi? You must be drunk.
On the other hand, I don’t think Sturmtiger having the same amount of alpha that big a problem. After all, it fire a rocket, not a shell. Sure it’s got huge alpha damage, but it’s very inaccurate and have terrible reload, mobility and armor. This thing, tbh, is less broken than WT E-100 and FV 183. (Just give it a 1.2 acc lol)
Wargaming should add another UK td line before they do this.
I’m going to risk beating a dead horse by repeating what was asked above. Was the Sturmtiger tested with its originally intended armament of a 210mm howitzer rather than the rockets that were eventually used? I seriously doubt it would be op to the point of unbalanceable with a 210mm howitzer when some artillery have bigger guns in game.
They could have a game mode with (oh lets say) the RATTE and other odd, super strong tanks. Seems fitting.
Enter the tomato whiners.
I think it would be ridiculous to implement Waffenträgers between heavily armoured assault vehicles. Especially since it should be possible to build up a complete “light” Waffenträger line and StuG Maus should really be an alternative setup for Jagdpz E100.
Easy way to balance the Sturmtiger:
Limit its ROF to one shot per 90 seconds, thus making it impossible for it to kill every tank in a given battle by itself (basically making it dependent on its team), a shot dispersion of 2 meters at 100 meters, and an aiming time of 8 seconds, along with a ridiculously-slow shell velocity that could theoretically allow fast tanks to dodge the shot. Basically, it’s like a giant shotgun: stupidly powerful against large, immobile targets, but pretty much useless for anything else. It’d be an even more specialized Fv 215b 183.
Also, it only gets HE rounds, so no HEAT shells or the like. This also means that it’s impossible to negate the downsides of the gun by simply firing from point-blank range, because doing so will invariable cripple if not outright kill the Sturmtiger as well with its own splash damage, even if it’s at full health when firing.
TL;DR – this would make the Sturmtiger the derpiest tank in the entire game, but it’s not impossible to balance.
recently, Storm openly confirmed that the Sturmtiger will not be implemented. From what I heard on Russian server – it’s connected to an incident, where on the supertest, Storm took a Sturmtiger for a spin and out of three shots, he oneshotted IS-7, Maus and E-100. Whether that’s true – well, that’s not confirmed, but it would certainly explain his distaste for such a gamebreaking vehicle.
So they weren’t fighting back right?
You’re going to fucking tell me, that something that should have a 40-60 second reload, is on a Tier 7 chassis with Tier 7 armor(and is overloaded by the additional weight of the casemate), negative camo values after firing and should have shit view range because it’s a closed TD (and TD’s shouldnt be spotting for themselves anyway but you fucks can’t comprehend how that’s imbalanced), on one of your stupidly tiny maps, managed to survive a 3v1 fight?
Honestly if you can’t balance the Sturmtiger, it’s not because the tank is gamebreaking, it’s because your mechanics are gamebreaking.