Hello everyone,
yesterday, Polyarmus sent me an e-mail with an interesting question: how many potential tier 10 vehicles are there left to implement for already existing trees? That kinda gave me pause, because the more I thought about it, the more I came to the conclusion that it’s probably not that many. Let’s have a look at the existing trees one by one. I ommitted the potential artillery class vehicles for obvious reasons. Special thanks to Dominatus, Vollketten, Anglomanii, CaptianNemo and Listy for brainstorming ideas.
Germany
German tree is pretty much finished, the only thing that is missing from it are the historical Waffenträgers (on 38t suspension) and the Sturmtiger branch, with Sturmtiger of them all being probably the only viable tier 10 vehicle. Theoretically, another vehicle that could serve as tier 10 could be the Sturmpanzer Bär, but of the Waffenträgers, none really reach tier 10 potential. The only chance (for WT E-100 replacement) would really be the idea, that was mentioned some time ago – it’s possible Yuri Pasholok found some advanced Waffenträger Panther material in the German Bundesarchiv, but so far, he has not published anything of that sort.
Medium German tanks are pretty much all implemented IIRC, unless you start dragging out really, really obscure stuff like VK2301 or VK2401, but noone really knows how they looked like. Oh yea and the really lowtier stuff (like NbFz, Grosstraktor) is still missing, but both were scheduled at some point. Oh yea, there is the outlandish Leopard proposal from Borgward, but from what I know, that is not even considered, it’s too “odd” for the game.
Soviet Union
Hard to say, but I think the Soviet tree is pretty much complete as well. What is missing is the third TD line, based around SU-100P, SU-152G and SU-152P. All of these are not exactly tier 10 stuff though, that role could theoretically be filled by the SU-152 “Taran”.
In case you don’t know, Taran is the ultimate Soviet tank destroyer evolution, a huge massively powerful gun, but the chassis is reather thin. And yes, it is theoretically acceptable for WoT, I asked – but as you can imagine, a third branch of anything has really low priority for Wargaming. That’s pretty much all I can figure out – various advanced heavies such as the Object 277 or Object 430U have been rejected as too powerful for the game, even though they technically fit the timeline. As for the medium tanks, I cannot say. There might be some really obscure prototype out there I don’t know about that would fit, but what would lead to it? Nah, I think the medium line is pretty much finished.
USA
Well, what’s missing is a second (third, if you count the autoloader one) medium line with the T95 medium tank as its top. The T95 was a failed attempt to create new American medium tank. It had numerous versions (like a dozen) with numerous guns. Recently, the T95E6 was added into the game as some sort of clanwars reward and it will be awarded at some point. That is the version with the 120mm cannon (by far the most distinctive one). There were other versions, some with a 90mm smoothbore gun (not acceptable for WoT), some with what was basically the 90mm M48 Patton gun, or even the 105mm T140.
Generally, there is nothing really distinctive about the non-120mm versions of the T95, they would probably behave roughly like the ingame M48, it’s a damn shame the 120mm version got “wasted” on clanwars. It can be expected that this alternative medium tank line will come eventually at some point, but given the fact the Americans already have two medium (well, one hybrid) lines and the… let’s say lower attractivity of the T95, I expect this to have very low priority. Oh yea, there was also a 120mm version of the T54 tank, but given the fact that the non-autoloaded T54 version would probably come on tier 9… hard to say.
And then there are the Yoh tanks, those were also planned at some point a very, very long time ago. You can read about them here (Chieftain from US forums wrote a nice “Hatch” entry). This is some really obscure shit right there and not much is known about them.
One of the designs could probably be a tier 10, at least it was planned as such. Forget about the T58 though, that’s not going to be implemented (too powerful).
France
Ah, sweet France. One of the most forgotten and unfinished trees in the game. Well, here it’s a bit more obvious as to what is missing. Two things: first, an alternative non-autoloader French medium line with AMX30 as its tier 10. AMX30 is pretty much a French version of the Leopard, built around the same principles with same basic characteristics. Second thing that is missing is an alternative French heavy line, that was promised a long, loooooong time ago. There was talk about it around Christmas 2012, with the following setup:
This setup is now very obsolete (that much is confirmed). What should be a tier 10 French heavy tank though? Truth to be told, I don’t know. There were several AMX proposals, including a 70 ton heavy vehicle. Very little is known about the French postwar projects in general (for example, everyone knows Somua SM – its existence that is, but try finding anything about its gun, or armor – nothing, nada, not even in books).
There was an idea of a second French tank destroyer line as well, but I know nothing about it.
Great Britain
Britain is a mess, as Listy likes to say. Basically, you have three possible candidates for tier 10 and all three will be implemented in time (or, at least I am fairly sure they will). First one is the Vickers MBT, which in its various forms is basically something like a British Leopard. Little to no armor, 105mm L7, decent mobility.
I suspect that this vehicle will replace the blatantly unhistorical FV4202 on tier 10. Second candidate is (obviously) the Chieftain, specifially (most likely) the P6 prototype.
The good news is that this specific vehicle was examined by Wargaming (or, rather, by player Xlucine, who is also the author of more precise measurements of the FV4202 armor) and it somewhat fits. Don’t expect miracles though, according to the measures, the armor is not too good, the mobility is likely poor, the main element is the deadly 120mm gun. The Chieftian is likely to replace the unhistorical FV215b (120) at some point.
Third candidate for tier 10, that will most likely be also implemented, is the FV4005 Stage 2 self propelled gun (tank destroyer). Stage 1 is too OP for WoT and won’t be implemented (I asked).
In case you are interested in its detailed characteristics, I will refer you to an older FTR article, but in short, it’s just a huge glass cannon with a 183mm gun (even less armored than the FV215b (183)).
Other than that, there are some pretty obscure British vehicles, that existed on paper only, such as the program to upgrade the Tortoise or the mythical FV100, but very little is known about them and it’s unlikely they will appear in the game soon, if ever. Oh yes, I forgot, there is the Project Prodigal, the 120mm version tank destroyer as well (photo courtesy of Listy):
Yes, that’s an autoloaded 120mm Chieftain gun.
Japan
Japan is missing its artillery branch, tank destroyer branch and heavy branch. All three branches do have tier 10 candidates: arty branch has Ha-To, TD branch – something like the Ho-Ri Toku and the heavy branch has some yet unnamed superheavy monster á la Maus.
Ho-Ri Toku
Japanese tier 10 heavy candidate, Type 2605 (more – or rather all known – details here)
As you can see, very little is known about these candidates in general. There is practically nothing in the western sources, there is almost nothing in the Japanese sources themselves. There was even a fourth potential (very speculative) candidate for tier 10 medium tank, basically it was something like a Japanese E-50, practically nothing is known about it.
China
China generally has very low priority in everything. It is now almost certain that we will not see a second Chinese medium or heavy branch, there are no practical candidates for either. The only thing we might see is a SPG branch and a TD branch. Of tier 10 potential SPG, nothing is known. Tier 10 TD is shrouded in mystery as well, but it is likely it will be something like this:
A Chinese tank destroyer proposal based on WZ-111 chassis. You can see from the shape itself that the Chinese TD’s might resemble the Soviet TD’s a lot. Very little is known about them though.
And then there is of course the entire EU tree concept with its infinite possibilites… I think WoT has enough material for years to come. Just bring on the damn EU :) And the French. What, you want another teaser of stuff you most likely haven’t seen before? Here, greetings from Switzerland (photo courtesy of Vollketten)
YEEEY more protipes :D
ty si celý pes…
nothing wrong with prototypes.
That ’23a’ design from Switzerland is difficult – the files are currently off-limits, but I;’m working on it.
The prototypes are one of the reasons I like WoT over War Thunder.
Sure, I like all these prototypes, many of them are the ones that led to the tanks we know today as Panther, Chieftain, Leopard, all that stuff. Also they add good variation to the game, much better than WT…
But then again, these unnecessary tanks like Jagdpanzer E-100 or WT auf E-100 are just OP and make the average T10 game very unbalanced.
One word…Common Test.
With circa half of the battlefield consisting of WTF E-100′s, Jagdpanzers and FV 183′s. You just can’t play the tanks you like. “Armor? SCREW YOU!” *15cm E-100 HEAT round*
That’s two words :D
Oh, yea you’re right :D Should’ve called it Commontest, right ?
The Yoh tanks don’t quite have the firepower to be tier X. Tier VIII and IX is where they should be based on armament. There are a number of American tank designs(XM60, H1/H2, TS-6, TL-7, etc.) that could be fitted into a tier X role. You can realistically have three Tier X heavies and about 4 or 5 tier X mediums, 2 tier X arties, and 3 tier X TDs for America.
And that is the short list… with some digging there is more.
T43 hull fitted with 108 inch ring and the mock up castings proposed for the H1, H2 and H3.
If there’s room for a Chieftain, there’s room for a modified T58 with a 3 shot auto-loader. It would essentially be the US tier 10 TD counterpart to a Foch-155 with less reliable armor and a garbage reverse gear like the T57 has. There were *2* versions of the T58, however the details of the A2′s changes aren’t publicly available so WG can “make s**t up” like they always do and limit the drum to 3 rounds instead of the A1′s 6 round configuration.
Ze Chermins received an autoloader TD, ze French have one, now Murrca can have one.
Actually nearly EVERY autoloader tank in game already HAS its amount of shells in the drum halved.
French LTs had in reality 2 drums a’ 6 shots, AMX 50 had 2 drums with 4 120mm shells each, T57 also had 8 shells drum.
So it would be more than logical to also reduce T58′s shells from 6 to 3.
Years pass and I really don’t see the point, where T58 is more OP than, say, Foch155 or WTE100. It has larger turret (easy to hit and pen), rather meh mobility and T7 gun we have on T30 is not very penetrating. (skip the shit T7Esuper-cooper on T110E3-E4). And f*ck WG if it would be another TD like T30.
Another missing US “drummy” would be the tasty T77 – the M48 with T57 turret/gun. No OP really – huge slow MT (! – enough US heavies) with a nice (not more than that) gun. I would actually grind it!
The Ob.277 is just a another one HT-MT hybrid, a more mobile and better armed IS-8 yet with same armour completely vulnerable to everything on Tier10. Really no OP in sight.
Well the Taran in fact could be “somewhat” powerful with 300mm pen at 2km (IIRC), but what the hell, it’s just another glass cannon after Fv183 and WTE100, but in this case instead of damage or drum we just get penetration.
What I would also like to see would be the mentioned in previous articles Centurion AVRE, IMO it fits more in the current MT line – some armour and HESH. Vickers breaks the line pretty much, it should definitely be implemented, but rather in a separate branch.
What about FV4401 Contentious or FV3807 (the so called Jagd Chieftain)? One of them should actually fit the T10 TD spot.
Jagd Chieftain never really made it anywhere. Armor and gun would be garbage for T10.
Alright, I admit I was wrong about the Jagd Chieftain. But there are better options for T10… And are a little more impressive.
Fekking WG goons destroyed the T-34-100 first, then they rejected the ABSOLUTELY GLORIOUS Ob’yekt 277.
For those who don’t know that thing, let me say something; Basically, it’s T-10M on steroids with 1050bhp engine and overly powerful 130mm gun. The armor is -I think- like the T-10, but whatever, that M-65 gun is capable of finishing off a T-54 with 1 shot IRL.
Nearly every AT gun is capable of finishing off a T-54 in 1 shot if that shot penetrates. A better example of the M-65′s power is to compare its KE to other guns. It is about 1.12x more powerful than the M58 gun which is one of the powerful guns ever put into a production vehicle.
Irl most of the tanks were able to one shot most of the tanks
IRL they had to. Otherwise the intended victim would repay the favor with their BIG gun.
Oh damn, I’d love to see the French tech tree finally completed, or at least give them some premiums… a Medium and Light premium would help, wouldn’t it? I can’t train a crew for my future B.C. 25t…. that makes no sense at all.
It seems that WG kinda hates French tanks…
You don’t say…
French Tanks are near impossible to research.
How so? How are they harder to research than all the vague paper projects that appear in the german tree?
For once, there’s room for about 20 or so interwar and WWII era tanks. At least. Then, there’s a dozen of post-WWII projects and prototypes whose characteristics are widely available on the net. (SARL 42, AMX-30 protos, AMX chasseur de Char, the AMX CA, etc.)
Some people have put up a great french tree on the french forum, with about 6 or 7 branches. Some of the tanks they use are dubious (again, as many VK protos are), but there’s definitely room for more french tanks.
I didn’t say there was not room for French tanks just that, to be clear, going though the archives is a little difficult. For one the language barrier, locations of archives and to a degree getting access. Running through the catalog is doable but also difficult unless you understand the system.
The French do not really care for people digging through their top secret stuff – even if it is outdated. Research on pre WW2 tanks is frowned upon, anything more recent and you may have your balls attached to the nearest power source in preparation of a firing squad.
SS, and what about EU tree?
Last paragraph
What i don’t get is why they don’t make a tier 11 and tier 12 tank, there are still a lot of tanks from the 60′s 70′s and 80′s they can add.. but make them higher tier.. and they can find a way to fit it into the game.. just make them a bit better then the tier 10′s etc etc.. but not op..
because if they keep the newer tanks out.. they will run out of tanks to add and will lose a lot of players.. because humans want new things once in a while… no new content = a slow death for any game.
They don’t make them, because they would have guns with obscene amount of penetration.
Also, tanks from 1940′s vs tanks from the 1970′s is not fun at all.
Keep in mind it won’t be “trying to kill a KT with a M4 easy 8″ where you can flank…no…
Those 1970′s tanks would be faster, more agile, spot further, shoot with pin point accuracy on the move….
Imagine using a maus to kill a T80. Yeah
Or in the best case scenario, a Leopard 1 (first version) to kill a late version of the Chieftain. Sure the leo is faster, but it can’t do shit when the enemy tank can just autoaim on the move and hit 9/10 times, all while being frontally immune to returning fire.
all your points are kinda invalid.. because.. drumbroll…….. its a game.. they can make those gun whatever they like.. and like there are no insane high pen guns in the game now..
all tier higher up tanks are better then the last tier.. so whats the problem? i don’t see it.
and a tier 11 players against 10/11/12, same as a tier 6 plays against a tier 7/8, same difference but diff tier.. so
and the points you make can all me made different in a game, wot is not historical accurate.. so they can make for example a t-70 work in this game…
Lets hope, when Armored Warfare hits, they will rethink their decision!
I dont see reason in what you are saying.
World of tanks is about pre-Smoothbores and Fire Control Computers.
Armored warfare is the leadup to those and the afterwards, up to and including modern tanks
I am curious if Armored Warfare will have the M1 CATTB.
if we had tier 11 and 12 the game would take forever to reach those tiers secondly the guns would be overpowered and thirdly thats when you get to the reactive armour years and thats really hard to model into the game because there isn’t an exact armour thickness
Good Article @SS.
But the fact is that with WG completely immersed in implementing the HD Models and Havoc game engine, with plans for this year already drawn out and the debacle of HBs, I don’t think it is practically possible to implement these (some, not all) any time before 20 months.
Welcome 2016, we may get something but by then most of us would have long left the game and would just snoop around once-5 times a month maybe.
It would be good to have these, but it will take a long long time……..
At lower tiers, I would like to see the German VK 6501 (H) heavy tank too :)
I want my Wersehutte E-75, JagdMaus and Jagd E-75,
ALSO:
Why the f*ck would the Object 430U be too powerful? We already have a more powerful heavy that is nerfed quite a bit, the IS-7. 277 and 430U are can both be nerfed (or buffed for 430U, its gun is shit) and put in game. Jeez…
JagdMaus – not that Maus is slow ass UP tank, but also you want a turretless version :D Sadomazo.
Yes I do Woras.
It will hurt me and I will Like it :D
PS: A JagdMaus with a 150mm L67 or a an Ultra 128mm gun … I … like that idea.
I love how everyone bitches about Prototype or paper tanks. If WG only stuck to real tanks with real existing production models, we would have a very, very, very boring game. And some countries would be totally, completely, 100% OP (Looking at you, Germany). Because the Germans had the Maus, and nothing I can think of that exists would be balanced against it. the US might have that T95, the Brits would have the Chieftan, and I THINK the Russians would have the IS-8. That would basically be the top tanks. And there would be a FEW TD lines, but, they’d be dominated by the OBJ 704.
So are Prototype tanks unhistorical? Yes, somewhat. Do they make for a much deeper game with a higher replay value? absolutely. (I won’t say enjoyable, because Waffle E100)
While yes wt auf e100 is op on test server, maybe. Most people have not tried it on live server, and sadly it feels very underpowered. I ground it out and sold it after ~100 battles. It is a dedicated fire support tank for close range encounters. It’s accuracy is over rated when everyone within five hundred meters can see you right after you fire or move. Yeah malinovka is terrible for that tank, gotta hide before scouts see you or everyone focus fires you.
The picture of those Chinese TDs is fake..
What make you say that? Source?
Uh look at the picture. It was edited in MS Paint.
Don’t ask me for a source to disprove it when it already disproves itself.
Ask SS for the source that picture came from.
From a Chinese guy, who made an entire article about the proposed Chinese TD’s, could be fake, but could be not, the existence of TD’s on WZ-111 chassis was confirmed by SerB at one point.
Looks a UK line
Eww the Vickers. DO not use it Wargaming. That is bad game design… putting a leopard 1-like tank after the centurions…
Just use the ActionX Centurion with either an APCR firing 20 pdr (tier 10 Comet :) ) or the stupid 105mm gun.
@SS You once posted an article for a possible 2 Chinese heavy lines.
Something like a model 1963 112 as a tier 10?
I want a modified WZ 111-5A as a reward CW tier 10 heavy tank. Just make it look different to the tier 9 and 8 WZ-111
Scrap the OP TDs, there is no need for them. If anything they should add the HTs.
If the T10 TDs are considered balanced, especially the waffentragger and 183 bullshit then I see no reason to call the T58, 227 and 430U too powerful in any way. WG just needs to stop the retarded TD bias.
I agree!
WG Logic makes sense when it doesnt make any sense when using logic.
CynicalDutchie agreed. T58 wont be more OP than existing T10 autoloaders.
try playing those tanks on live server, your opinion of them will change fast
Maybe after they won’t have anymore tanks to implement they might extend the timeline.Who knows,maybe in 7 years we’ll drive T-90s and Leopards 2.
I’d actually really like that,imagine how awesome it would be to follow the line of development from T-34 to T-90
It’d be more like the development from T-34 to T-80, as the T-90 was derived from the T-72 and thus T-64, which is more related to the IS-2 than T-34 oddly enough
But this just means there are at least two branches.
Pls dont give WG an idea for new arty ;)
The US has more T10 material then it needs.
A good dozen or so tanks from TD, to Heavy to SPG.
I would love it if an other French med line was introduced, we haven’t seen any WG models of them have we?
We’ve seen the G1L and drawings of the AMX 45
Keep Fv215 183 stats but replace model/hitbox with that FV4005 Stage 2 Kv-2 thing and game will be more balanced!.
Maybe increase reload speed but reduce HESH pen. It will both reduce one-shot capability AND be more of a counter to wtf100.
Will be just like the old days with KV-152 vs. tier X tanks.
I used to hate 183…..but now I hate Waffe more becuase 183 can’t one shot Waffe….WG needs to nerf both in the same time to the degree where they’re mutually killable….
And buff all HTs by 500HP probably can solve the issue…..So all those OP TD at least required 3 shots to kill them and giving the HTs have more chance to kill them during their reload
Thanks for interesting summary. Very good read.
On the endless opportunities of the European tree. What candidates for t10 are there? From previous FTR articles I recall (tanks only):
1. Czechoslovakia: TPV medium tank
2. Sweden: HT Emil with autoloading 120mm gun
3. Switzerland: MT panzer 68?
4. Hungary: ?
5. Poland: ?
6. Italy: MT Europanzer
7. ?
Italy: OTO Centauro
Spain could have the Leox or El Niño, or if needed, the M47E and AMX30E.
Silent probably could into more detail if he continues the Euro articles :P
No need for new tanks. Maybe a new nation… but tanks – no thank!
So add a new nation with no tanks?
[troll face] For the Chinese tree hope they include the Taiwan(RC) line as well, then we can have fully historically correct copy and paste tanks and not just the half fake C&P PRC tanks XD
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btw I’m surprised nobody post anything about WZ-122…It could be a good t10 MT alternative as well…the t9 could use the dome-turret version of WZ-122 and these should comes after WZ-132. And f course remove the smoothbore that it supposed to have…
_____________________
btw Did anyone see in WoWP, the option to choose SD or HD client is available now ? And night battles as well……
Please, more info on WZ-122 and on these Chinese tanks!
I thought there’s a english wiki page for the WZ-122 but there isn’t….I might as well start finding more sources, translate it and sent to SS to post on FTR….
DO IT! :D
I want more info on Chinese tanks!
Why do you keep pushing the Vickers MBT as a replacement t10? Its garbage in every way, the only way it could be a tier 10 is if it was uprated massively and then it becomes as unhistorical as the FV4202. Also how can you have a t10 that was never, ever used by the British? It was a cheap export model for countries like Ghana, if its not in a lend lease line for the might Ghanian line then its farcical to be included.
Same here. Fuck the Vickers MBT, it smells like shit, looks like shit, is shit. If you want to downrate the FV4202 to an alternate T8 or even premium with a 17 pdr A/B-Barrel-type gun, I’m fine with that, but don’t replace it with a Centurion downgraded for purchase by third world countries. Give us the Action X, goddamnit.
Also in regard to FV215b. Take your fucking greasy fingers of this beauty, WarGaming. Keep it as a T10 and introduce an alternate T10 if you must, but fucking keep it in the game. Historical accuracy my ass, as long as stuff like WTE100 and VK72 remain in game.
Agree….When I tried the 215b (120) is pretty damn good, I win a dog fight with 4202 as my DPM and mobility is damn good…..
Vickers MBT is a downgraded latter models Centurions…..dunno why it’ll be in t10…..Rather boost Cent 7/1 to t10 and VMBT takes the tier 9 place….
About the first one… I don’t see how it should fit the game. I think if they bring another artillery branch into the game they should limit the number of artys per game to only one high-tier arty.
I’m already tired of these 21 cm G.W. Tiger things with their 700-900 damage per hit… And 30,5 cm/38cm (Sturmtiger) would be just overpowered. How much damage would one 38cm rocket make? 4-5k? 1-1,5k if hit (no penetration)? And then the splash radius…dispersion? 1,30m/100m?
Poor heavy tank drivers! :(
You should more worry about WTF E100s and 183 deathstars
yeah, poor heavy drivers that lose a potential 1000 health once every minute to a tank that has 1.00 or worse accuracy, kv2 aim time and the slowest shell in the game
“arty branch has Ha-To”
Thats a 300 mm mortar on a 14 ton chassis, it would be the lightest Tier 10 in WoT
It is an interesting design… Slow firing too.
I want it so bad … I would totally grind that thing out no matter how bad the line is. Even if all the arties up to tier 9 have 76 mm howitzers, I will grind it out just to get that 300mm mortar …
Jagdmaus would also be a cool tank to add!
And also T58 autoloader. WG saying that it would be hard to balance is complete shit. It’s not like they have to give it historical full 6 rounds cassette. Give it 3. And also the rof can greatly make it OP or balanced. Since we have WTF-E100, then T58 would fit perfectly.
It won’t differ too much from the T57 HT, which is already in the game. Do we need another one autoloading heavy?
Plus unlike the WT E-100, it would have strong hull armor AND turret armor. IMO too strong. It’ll be the strongest tier 10 tank, everybody will take that to matches, and 15 T58s versus 15 T58s is not going to be too much fun..
A lot of problems would be solved by just flat out removing tier 10 all together. When you think about it, tier 10 is a lot like tier 1 in a lot of ways: Your armour doesn’t matter because nearly everything can penetrate it, your HP doesn’t matter because you’re taking a quarter off it every time you get hit and everybody can see everybody else at the ranges they engage at. The performance difference between 8 and 10 is so great they might as well be in completely different leagues. Hell, even the difference between 9 and 10 is pretty staggering.
Tier 10′s are either ones designed in the 60′s; tanks designed when the realities of armored warfare were completely different from any previous era, or are paper projects with vastly inflated capabilities and wishful thinking. There’s often a big leap of logic in trying to connection the tier 10 to the line it caps. Tier 9′s, on the other hand, are mostly the logical conclusion to a line of tanks. The Centurion 7/1 is the ultimate refinement of the British medium tank design philosophy and is very, very capable. The M103 was the last true heavy tank the Americans produced.The tortoise caps off a line of true-blooded assault tanks and you are spared from that balancing disaster that is the deathstar.
I understand this would require removing a lot of tanks and even a few lines entirely, like the leopard 1 line, but it it brings some sense back and controls the rampant powercreep at tier 10 then I’m willing to say goodbye to any chance I have at driving the Leopard 1. But you would get rid of the overbufffed, out of place tanks like the FV4204 and the FV215b, the overnerfed tanks like the IS-7, the WG-originals like the WT E-100, T110E3 and E4, and so on and so on.
This also opens up avenues for retiering certain tanks to move them back into appropriate spots in the tree. A line that would really benefit from retiering is the Tiger P/Maus line. By bumping the Maus down a tier and returning the VK4502P to its historical stats you let it fit at tier 8 alongside the Tiger II, instead of putting it above the tank it was a prototype of. You also get rid of the dissonance of going form a slow pig of a heavy (tiger P) to a fast flanking heavy (VK4502A), and then back to a pig (Vk4502P). And before you start, the guns at tier 9 are almost always the same that are used on tier 10 anyways so the Maus’ armour won’t suddenly become overpowered. It also means the Maus wont be so ridiculously outclassed by tanks that were designed 15+ years after it was using all the lessons learned in that time.
So many trees and tank lines are tied up because nobody can find a decent enough tier 10 candidate, or the tier 10 they do find is nowhere close to its real counterpart or is just a plain fabrication by WG.
That’s a lot of very compelling arguments indeed.
After all, what would we loose by ditching tier 10? Pretty much everything up there are paper tanks from obscure blueprints or entirely made up. Only the M48, IS-4 and Leopard 1 were produced in meaningful numbers and actually saw service.
IS-4 used to be a tier 9(overpowered) and could probably become one again if suitably nerfed, given all the nasty guns that have populated tier 9 games since then.
Would hate to see the Leopard 1 go, I served on it after all, but rather drop it along with the M48 than downtier them and make them their predecessors in everything but the name.
Maus could stand to take the VK45.02B’s place at tier 9 like you say. It’s a joke in the current metagame, but is iconic enough that it should have a place in the game.
That leaves us with a nice line-up of iconic tier 9′s which in many cases saw service, and less of the massive tier 10 TD doomcannons.
That… actually makes sense.
Tier 10 is now beyond any repairs. Most of the lines can end on their tier 9s. That way we get rid of those far-fetched tier 10s of which half of them is WG’s fantasy and the rest is either unreastically nerfed or buffed to fit.
Maus and IS-4 brought back into the spotlight. No more fantasy autoloading TDs, no more double Leos or E50s, no more hulls with ridiculous guns. Basically no to everything that makes tier 10 broken.
EDIT: It was meant as an answer to the Guardsman Gary.
What about the porsche TD line for the germans? I thought that would have been the Third German TD line in the game, coming from the Elefant/Ferdinand or something.
what TDs? the 245(all 3), 250, 255? not exactly T10 material.
There is an E75 assault gun (its one of those one line of text tanks) but that’s not Porsche.
Probably referring to this article:
http://ftr-wot.blogspot.cz/2013/04/extending-wot-german-tech-tree-porsche.html
It is however exclusively filled with prototypes/fantasy tanks, and the given the German tree has received plenty of love as is I don’t really see an argument for such a line.
The only fantasy tank is the Sturmpanzer Maus (the image) everything else is more or less real or can be deduced by available evidence. While suggestions for making TD/Assult Gun versions of various tanks existed, few got drawn up into detailed studies, and not all the studies have survived in detail.
If you saw the crazy ass stuff drawn up by the US then this line is not that bad. Although newer info has come to light since this was proposed.
I do not want the Vickers MBT to be the tier 10 of the current line, Chieftain is way sexier, and better
I hope they don’t put in the Vickers either there’s nothing wrong with it, just nothing interesting about it. Then WG may take lack of interest in the Vic as lack of interest in the Brits.
I’d love to see the Cent AVRE ingame.
Not sure why you keep mentioning the Vickers MBT, it was a budget centurion with less armour. It won’t fit tier x. The only way it would be tier ix is because of the gun.
with all the whining that goes on about deathstar and wt auf e100s I am surprised no one whines about kv 2, in fact most seem to love it even though it is the same theory and design just four tiers lower
European (besides current nations, excl. France – needs real HTs and more MTs) & Japanese would be best for variety’s sake, but I disagree T95 be ‘roughly like the M48′. It is lower (better camo) and faster.
To bad two tier tens are fucking reward bullshit godforbid the tanks i want are added for reg tree but noo
Sorry but the T95 would most def not be like a “Patton” generally in game at all.
In fact numbers and size wise the T95 would play much more similiar to a Obj 140, and the gun had a Semi-SmoothBore version that would be used.
The Armor on the Ford tank would have been 4.67 inches @65 degrees with Glass Armor that in individual pltes defeated Rockets 3x there capacity.
So take away the Glass Armor and still you have a 121mm @ 65 degree [for 80% of the frontal area] beast tank that had a 720 proposed HP motor and a gun that had similar pen to the M58 120mm but 50% faster loading all in a very low to the ground sleek package.
Think more like STB looks and speed with Fv4202 Hull Armor and a to balance it would have only 240 Alpha but 260 Pen and laser like…..
This is not like a Patton in any way shape or form. And in reality this project wasnt a failure of Tech but a failure of the US`s retardation in thinking they didnt need a “Advanced” all in one tank, when it could have M103 Pattons and Bulldogs doing its job…..They didnt want to make the best tank ever because it was putting to much into one unit. But the tank itself exceeded almost all expectations, except budget…..Also it didnt help the only 12 factories that could manf it was the poorer states unable to pay washington lobbiast the most.
how terrible
About that unknow canidate on Japanese heavy tank …. a long long time ago there was a topic aimed exactly at this theme and one of the most possible candidates shoudl be the O-I superheavy tank series http://japan.greyfalcon.us/O.htm with the codename O-I EXPERIMENTAL ULTRA-HEAVY TANK which looks like a KV-5 on steroids to me. But I guess u are more informed than me so i might be wrong …. but damn it sure looks nice next to the Maus I woudl like to have one of these. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-58qDrcl9U70/UXG_1KEKCGI/AAAAAAAABzc/bywyJMsrl8E/s1600/O-I_Maus.JPG
a comment and a few questions…
I think an American light off the Chaffee should be coming, and while they are at it it they can fix this light-medium-heavy line that goes to the T57 heavy. I like FTR quite a bit, thanks for doing this blog, Is there a T7 American TD coming anytime soon I heard about one awhile ago but have missed the updates on that. I have gold saved to buy one. I used to wonder how people play with low fps but lately I am lagging majorly. my fps hasn’t changed and even shows higher but my ping has jumped to 70-95 ms anyone else notice this?