Old-time FTR readers should know how this works, but, if you’re just joining us, here’s how this works. You send questions to tankarchives@gmail.com, and I will periodically answer them. My area of expertise is tank battles on Eastern Front and Soviet tanks, so keep your questions in that general area.
Q: Why does the BL-9 in-game have a muzzle brake? Is it a real gun?
A: The recoil generated by shooting a 25 kilogram shell at 1000 meters per second is considerable, and if you didn’t have a muzzle brake, the recoil mechanisms would have to be huge, and it wouldn’t fit into a tank. The BL-9 on the ISU-122BM doesn’t have a muzzle brake, since it has more room to recoil in, similar to how the A-19 fit into the ISU-122 without a muzzle brake.
The BL-9 is a real gun. The tank version of the gun is also a real, but slightly different gun (the TD version was the OBM-50, the tank version was the OBM-51), with the same characteristics.
Q: Are the IS-8 and Object 268 sized correctly in-game?
A: In relation to each other? Yes. The hulls are different sizes in real life.
Q: Is the ST-II (twin-gun ST-I) real? What tier would it fit best at?
A: Yes, it is.
As for the tier, it’s an interesting question. The tank was built with a very high ROF in mind, 15 RPM, from the D-30 or D-10 gun. These guns have horrible penetration in game. It could be a tier 8 (since it would be a faster firing, more accurate IS-6), but I can’t see it doing too well at higher tiers without some kind of penetration buff. Seeing as how the current ST-I is languishing at tier 9 with a fictional gun that robbed it of all of its advantages, the ST-II’s fate will probably be all around poor, unless that part of the tree is significantly rebalanced.
Q: Do you think the IS-4 should be renamed to the IS-4M?
A: It would be a more correct name, but the elited version doesn’t fully represent the IS-4M, so it doesn’t really matter.
Q: Was the Object 263 an SPG?
A: Not much information is available on it, but, seeing as how many Soviet TDs were equipped with artillery sights, it is possible that it could be used in an SPG role.
Q: I noticed that the IS holds less than 30 122 mm shells, and the KV-1 can hold 50. Are howitzer shells smaller?
A: Not all shells of the same caliber are the same length. A howitzer shell often holds less propellant than an equivalent caliber gun shell, and, as a result, does not need to be as long.
Q: Did the KV-1S have the D-25T historically?
A: Historically, the KV-1S was able to mount the IS turret as a modernization measure, before enough ISes could be built. I think only one KV with a D-25T was actually built, though. A high powered 122 mm gun was also developed for it (almost as good as a BL-9), so if the D-25T isn’t historical enough, I’m sure the developers can bump it up a little.
That’s it for this edition! Send in your questions to tankarchives@gmail.com
As predicted, today, the Russian server did recieve the 0.8.6 patch (EU server will most likely recieve it on thursday and US server next tuesday). The patch notes are a mess (they are HUGE, I really don’t envy the google guys translating them), but apparently, some things were ommitted from them, namely the T69 tank changes:
- ground resistance for the T84E1 suspension on solid ground reduced by 8 percent and on medium ground by 7 percent
- T95 suspension turn rate buffed from 40 deg/s to 42 deg/s and recieved a ground resistance buff of 8 percent on medium grounds
- engine AOSI-895-5 nerfed from 600 to 550hp
Also, please note that when the patch comes live, all the camouflages, regular experience, crews and combat statistics will stay on the vehicles they were before 0.8.6, even if that vehicle changes tier (eg. if you had 10k XP on tier 8 arty, that becomes tier 10, the XP will stay on that arty, so you will have a tier 10 arty with 10k XP)
Please note that ALL the arties will have ALL the installed unlockable modules removed, effectively becoming stock. The unlocked modules will be moved to your depot. Ammunition and equipment will also be removed from the arties and moved to the depot.
Components, that will get removed from the game (for example tier 10 arty second suspensions) will be sold for their purchase price.
We also have a trailer for 0.8.6. Because, you know, putting up a video, in which too many arties chew up the enemies is really a good idea for a patch, that’s supposed to actually limit the number of arties in battles:
Anyway, today there is nothing much to translate really, only one retarded trollquestion:
- there are no plans to allow the tank crews to retrain into pilots (in connection with the WoWp/WoT account unification)
Obviously, first is the name of the shell, than the 0.8.5 price and the last is the 0.8.6 price. It’s apparently a datamining printout, so nevermind some of the weird shell names, they are probably just for testing purposes.
Basically, the consumable price will be cut in half in 0.8.6 – but beware, it’s not forever, only until the 0.8.7 (this is a bit of a trolling from WG, because 0.8.7 will contain British arty and will allegedly come very soon after 0.8.6).
Keep in mind that selling prices will be cut in half also, eg. if you have gold consumables now and want to get rid of them, do that before 0.8.6 comes out.
- Q: “Are you afraid that we the people will get angry if our wishes to nerf arty will not be heard?” A: “Megalomania is bad. Take care of yourself.”
- SerB on large caliber artillery shells ricocheting from thin surfaces: “Yes well, 8 inch naval shells did ricochet from the 25mm thick cruiser armor plates, so?” (SS: some players suspect Wargaming of somehow screwing with ricochets for HEAT arty shells by disabling overmatch)
- HEAT ricochet angle is 80 degrees, regular ricochet is 70 degrees
- there are enough Soviet heavies for 7 whole branches, but there are no plans to introduce that many
- while the accounts for WoT, WoWp and WoWs will be unified, this doesn’t count for clans, clans won’t be unified
- in 0.8.6, the bush camo principle will remain the same, because “it was a better solution” (SS: the new bush camo mechanism was bugged as hell)
- the camo system will be overhauled completely, but not soon
- Q: “In connection witht he premium ammo nerf, will the top 59-16 gun be buffed?” A: “Don’t play with the 59-16 top gun”
- client physics demonstration: “when it’s done it’s done”
- the devs are trying not to implement skills/perks, that would work with the same effect as the main skill (SS: for example a perk, that would decrease reloading time, which is the effect of the main skill of the loader)
- nation-specific skills/perks might be implemented, but not at this moment
- Vickers MBT and Vijayanta (SS: improved Indian licensed Vickers MBT copy)? “No comment”
- improved Chinese Type 59 with additional armor and new gun won’t be implemented, current Type 59′s are enough
- “modern” maps (SS: with modern architecture for example) are specifically avoided by the developers
- SerB on “free to win” principle “In our game, gold doesn’t give any advantage in battle. In levelling, it does. And it will continue to do so. Nothing I can help with.” As for the difference between gold- and silver-trained crews, SerB states: “You can always train your crew in battle. If you are lazy, nothing I can help with.” He answers the same for module unlocking – can be unlocked thru free or regular XP.
- water has no effect on shells whatsoever, some effect will be added but not soon
- you won’t lose by ramming a dead tank. If you feel like you lost some HP by doing that, you probably rammed the tank while it was still alive and the messages arrived in wrong order
- assist bonus for potential damage won’t be implemented (SerB: “I am waiting for the time when players will ask for bonus just for downloading the game”)
- no plans for 4 man platoons
- no mods as such will be implemented into the client. SerB states WG might “borrow” some ideas however.
- Deadeye perk will affect engine fire chance, but only indirectly (by increasing the chance to hit the engine), doesn’t increase the engine fire chance itself.
- the rapid fire autocannons have decreased chance to cause engine fires to compensate for the fact any hit can cause engine fire
SerB explains: “A shell hits the engine module, a “saving throw” is thrown (without that the game would be unplayable, veterans remember the 0.4.0 patch) – eg. the damage is dealt to the engine with some amount of probability. With each damage dealt to the engine above certain threshold, the engine can catch on fire. The engine below 50 percent health will turn yellow and on 0 it will turn red. This is the connection between crits and engine fires – the module damage.”
- premium vehicles do not correspond to the stock vehicles of the same tier – they are somewhat better than that, but elite vehicles of the same tier have to be better
Bonus: World of Tanks for Xbox game footage (for some reason, the sound is not working for me, not sure it’s on my side)
Today, we are going to have a look at some of the interesting Hungarian armor pieces. Obviously, it would be logical to start with the Turán, or the Toldi tanks, but are a bit boring :) We’ll get to them at some point later.
Hungarian branch will most likely be a part of the European tank tree, as the Toldi and Turán tanks were one of the few EU-nations tanks that have actually seen combat (although with mixed results). Hungarian tank history is quite interesting (again, I’ll get to that in some other article), but roughly it can be said that despite the attempts to build a decent tank force in WW2, Hungarian tanks and assault guns (based mostly on the Czechovak and Swedish designs, mixed with some imported German Panzer III and IV’s) were obsolete by the time they arrived to the Hungarian army (Honvédség). Despite the Hungarian attempts to bring the vehicles up to date (at some point blocked by Germans), a combination of obsolete vehicles and bad supply lines let to the massive destruction of Hungarian armor on Russian river Don – a defeat the army never really recovered from. Hungarian army however knew full well that their vehicles are not up to date and tried (sometimes desperately) to do something with it.
Hungarian armor in World of Tanks
Hungary can basically build a branch up to tier 7 (if we combine the TD and light/medium tank branches). It would look something like this:
T1 – Straussler tanks
T2 – Toldi I/II light tank
T3 – Toldi III light tank
T4 – T-21/Turán I medium tank
T5 – Turán II/III medium tank, Zrinyi I/II
T6 – ????
T7 – 44M Tas, Tas Rohamlöveg
And that’s it I am afraid. I haven’t found any tank project for tier 8+ – that of course doesn’t mean they didn’t exist, but it’s practically impossible to find any data on anything else outside of Hungary, so I hope Wargaming will do some serious research.
44M Tas
By 1943 two things were clear to everyone, except possibly the biggest optimists: the first one was that the Germans are in deep trouble in Russia – and the second one was that Hungarian armor is no longer capable of taking care of the newest Soviet tanks, appearing en masse on the battlefields of Russia. Especially the swarms of T-34 tanks plagued the tired Hungarian tankers, who tried to hold them off with their 40mm equipped Turáns (that alone was quite a feat by itself).
In May 1943, a German delegation led by general Leeb did visit Hungary, to inspect the state of Hungarian armor development and to share some knowledge, gained from the fighting. The result was a joint project offer from the Germans to work on certain vehicles. In German eyes, Hungary would manufacture and supply certain parts, which would then be assembled in Germany and exported back to Hungary. Needless to say, Hungarian officers were not very happy about this – from an independent nation, Hungary would become totally dependent on German supplies (and will), when it came to armor. That was unacceptable for two reasons: one was bad experiences with German cooperation (Turán production was delayed several times in the past due to shortages of German equipment), second was that with such a program, Hungary would effectively become Germany’s vassal state. Hungarians scrapped this idea immediately.
Earlier that year (in April 1943), Hungarian committee, led by colonel Nádas, visited Germany and inspected some of the armor factories. They witnessed the Panther and Tiger production and were impressed. However, by that time, the mass production of Tigers and Panthers was effectively just started, the vehicles suffered from several flaws (which were rectified only later) and it was also clear that Hungarian armor industry is in no shape to license-produce Panthers or Tigers, those tanks were simply way too sophisticated. Another idea of the committee was to actually license-produce the Panzer IV (with which the Hungarian crews were relatively happy). This too was turned down, because the army staff argued that Panzer IV is not THAT much better than Hungary’s current tanks and it’s simply not worth doing.
These endless talks led the army to commission the development of an entirely new and locally built heavy tank from Hungarian components. It was named “Tas” (possibly after a Hungarian warlord from 9th century) and designed in cooperation with the Weiss Manfréd company, that was also supposed to be responsible for its production. It was loosely based on the Turán construction and on the paper, it was actually pretty good. Massive welded frontal armor (100-120mm sloped) paired with a powerful gun (75mm KwK L/70) made a powerful combination. Two types of guns were actually planned: the original German-built KwK 42 from Panther and a Hungarian developed 43M 75mm gun. The vehicle was propelled by two 260hp Turán engines and manned by a crew of five (resembling the Panther).
Tas was introduced to the Honvédség command staff on 30.7.1943, with August reserved for partial improvements. The army approved the building of two prototypes – one made from classical (non-armor) steel and one completely armored. The mild steel prototype was built first in the first half of 1944 in the Weiss Manfréd company, but it was never finished. Allegedly, the hull was ready with transmission and engine installed and the project was waiting for a turret, when the factory was bombed on 27.7.1944 by Americans. The prototype was completely destroyed. The development was moved to the Ganz factory, where the already manufactured parts were redirected to. It is unknown what happened from July to December with these parts, but in December 1944, all development and manufacture in the factory was stopped – and that was the end of the project, which was not pursued further.
Characteristics:
(in the brackets: Panther D statistics for comparison)
Crew: 5 (5)
Weight: 38 tons (44,8)
Lenght: 9,2 meters (8,66)
Width: 3,5 meters (3,27)
Height: 3 meters (2,99)
Engine: 2x Turán, 520hp in total (HL230, 700hp)
Armor
Frontal: 100-120mm (80)
Sides: 50mm (40)
Turret frontal: 100mm (100)
Turret sides: 100mm (45)
Turret rear: 50mm (45)
Armament: 75mm KwK 42 or 75mm 43M (the same)
Speed: 45km/h (55km/h)
In World of Tanks
44M Tas is tier 7 material. Although classified as a “heavy” tank, it is lighter than the medium Panther and definitely nowhere near as heavy as the Tiger. As you can see, it is more heavily armored than the Panther, but lacks its sophisticated weaponry and most likely optics too. What we have here is a medium/heavy hybrid. While its firepower would be quite low for tier 7 (150mm pen, unless it gets some unhistorical gun), the nicely angled armor would allow it to actually hold its own. The engines are a problem, but historically, Hungarians negotiated with Germans over purchasing the HL230 700hp Panther D engines. With 700hp, this 38 ton vehicle would have a decent mobility, compensating for the gun. I can see it working, possibly as a brawler.
Tas Rohamlöveg
Tas Röhamloveg was a tank destroyer project, developed along with the 44M Tas tank, based on the same chassis. It was started in 1944, when some of the officers involved in the 44M Tas design came up with an idea that it wouldn’t be actually bad to start a project of a heavy tank destroyer along with the tank development. They were influenced no doubt by the successes of such German vehicles, that were not only extremely deadly, but also cheaper to build than regular tanks. Their silhouette was also lower, they were harder to spot, easier to set an ambush with and generally suitable for the defensive warfare both the German and Hungarian armies found themselves in.
The project was (not very originally) named Tas Rohamlöveg (“Tas assault gun”). The turret was removed from the design and the (very low) chassis was built to somewhat resemble the dreaded Jagdpanther. While the lower frontal plate (usually covered by terrain) was 20mm, the massive frontal plate was 120mm thick and very well angled. The vehicle was planned with the German 88mm KwK 43 L/71, capable to knock out any allied tank – and two machineguns.
Just like the tank, this vehicle was supposed to be built by Weiss Manfréd. Two prototypes were ordered, but beyond that, little is known of the project. Some sources say that some parts were ordered and even manufactured, but no prototype was ever built due to the same air raid, that knocked out the Tas production.
Characteristics:
(in the brackets: Jagdpanther statistics for comparison)
Crew: 5 (5)
Weight: 38 tons (45,5)
Lenght: 9,5 meters (9,87)
Width: 3,9 meters (3,8)
Height: 2,3 meters (2,72)
Engine: 2x Turán, 520hp in total (HL230, 700hp)
Armor
Frontal: 120mm (80)
Sides: 50mm (50)
Armament: 88mm PaK 43 (the same)
Speed: 45km/h (55km/h)
In World of Tanks
As you can see, it’s much like the Jagdpanther, but lower, sleeker, apparently with better camo factor, possibly more agile (lighter) with the same engine, but with the original 520hp you can’t expect miracles. The drawback would be the missing 105mm gun and thus somewhat lower firepower. Still, considering how cool it looks… I’d play it even if it was worse in all respects :)
